Clearing out the squad for the new manager - yay or nay?

[sdb4884]

Ironically Van der beek could be playing with his old manager if Ten Hag joins us.

In favor of a rebuild, we have numerous players leaving on a free to start with. Henderson will join a PL club with a buyback option likely, Bailly will probably go to Italy or Spain. I have no doubt Maguire can be offloaded to a team like Newcastle we just have to accept the massive transfer loss.

 

[tenpoless]

The clearing out process will take hundreds of millions. It's such a bad situation to be in.

 

[Irwin99]

Of course it's possible to sign more than 5 players but I don't feel it's realistic with this club. The striker position alone looks like it could be a nightmare with potentially 3-4 departures.

The obvious players at the end of the contracts will leave but the likes of Rashford and Shaw won't be going anywhere.

 

[copen1945]

City cleared 12 players out in the summer of 2017 to give Pep the team he wanted. Time to execute the overdue purge.

Was it that many? I would love a complete reshape of this scale.

The clearing out process will take hundreds of millions. It's such a bad situation to be in.

Spending money to send players out will benefit the club in long term. I wish the club would take the brave step.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Was it that many? I would love a complete reshape of this scale.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–18_Manchester_City_F.C._season#Transfers_out

Those 12 players were not just anybody.

 

[copen1945]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–18_Manchester_City_F.C._season#Transfers_out

Those 12 players were not just anybody.

My word, the number of players and the net spend involved are breath-taking. Before the squad clear out, United might want to recruit some of their execs. United can't do a transfer window of such net spend, but we need to be more proactive. United will need two seasons to accomplish what they did in one summer, but they have shown it is entirely possible.

 

[JebelSherif]

This isn’t 2012, Fergie isn’t here.

Oh no it isn't..... Oh yes he is! (well it is a pantomime club at the moment!).

Who made a call to get Ronaldo back?

Who is sitting in the stand, his face and body language saying 'this wouldn't have happened in my day'?

Whichever manager comes in, he will need to remember this:

"He's behind you...."

 

[ManchesterManchester]

Oh no it isn't..... Oh yes he is! (well it is a pantomime club at the moment!).

Who made a call to get Ronaldo back?

Who is sitting in the stand, his face and body language saying 'this wouldn't have happened in my day'?

Whichever manager comes in, he will need to remember this:

"He's behind you...."

Good points and all true. I dare say Woodward would make a fantastic pantomime villain and the new manager as the protagonist with Fergie as the ghost of the past

Now that I would pay to see..

 

[Tragically Hip]

I want to support a team that clearly has the hunger and desire to achieve success, and I feel this current squad does not demonstrate this outside of Ronaldo, Bruno, Fred, McTominay, Telles, and de Gea.

 

[sparx99]

No, I'm not mad, quite a rational thinker I like to believe.

The first list is viable, but then going through some of the players below starts to make our squad look thin. If the reported budget of £50m is true, then we won't be making many signings.

£50m is likely bollocks and there is well over £100m in sales possible. Dean Henderson, Van De Beek, Pereira, Tuanzebe, Bailly, Martial gets you in there in all likelyhood.

 

[sparx99]

We have to be more pragmatic here. First of all, it’s not easy to sell players at all, not like hitting a magic button and then SOLD!

Secondly, we would be buying 3-4 players next summer for the new manager. Not more. We have never bought more than that, and without top 4, we probably won’t have a big budget.

So we need to be very practical here, sell players who want out or are bad eggs (Ralf should be helping out on this), while keeping some players who are not necessarily fan favourites for the next season. It’s a matter of balance. So fans who are expecting a massive clear out and buying, FM style, might be disappointed. I also don’t think Maguire would be sold next season. Because we can only buy so many players, and we have other positions in need. So keep your expectations grounded.

We have bought 7 before in LVG’s first summer.

 

[sparx99]

I'm not even one of Hendersons biggest fans and gave several potential options on the first page of this thread but please do tell me how that particular "myth" was disproved? I'm presuming it is last season you're talking about given that was the only season Henderson has had a fair run in the team. So was it disproved by us defending better and by extension conceding considerably less goals with him in the team? Was it by him having more clean sheets in 12 fewer games than DDG? Was it by us winning more games with him in the team? I'm interested as to which of these facts disproved the "myth" of us being a better team with Henderson in goal than De Gea?

I'd anticipate that you'll respond with his performances against AC Milan and Liverpool where he made errors, what goalkeeper doesn't? De Gea cost the Europa League final with cowardly goalkeeping for Moreno's goal in addition to all the other mistakes that season. People will tell you he's our player of the year this season but has had horror shows against Atalanta (twice), Liverpool, City (twice), Watford and Leicester off the top of my head to rival anything from Henderson last season. And that's without even look at the games he supposedly saves us in, given that half the time he's been at fault prior to pulling off a big save by either giving possession away, not claiming across that goes right past him or claiming a ball coming into the penalty area putting the defenders under pressure.

De Gea is a massive problem and has been for years. Until he is changed, nothing will change and if we are going to "rebuild" then that is where it should begin otherwise the defensive issues will continue. You say he's one of only a few players here that has won the league, which is absolutely correct but he was also dropped twice during that season for reasonable spells if I remember correctly. It's also 9 years ago so hardly relevant unfortunately especially given that was one of our worst defensive seasons in years at the time (a pattern which has followed his career with us). If you really want to hark back that far then how about the taking another look at Kompany's goal which cost us the title in 2012 which a proper goalkeeper deals with all day long.

Our worst seasons De Gea invariably wins player of the season. He’s at his best when he’s busy (which doesn’t help top teams).

 

[RuudTom83]

There needs to be someone to oversee these managerial changes, because every new manager will naturally want to give the players a clean slate or restart at zero bs.

For example any manager coming in would express an interest in keeping a World Cup winner.

When we can all see it would be far better to trust the youth and reset the squad.

 

[VidaRed]

Our worst seasons De Gea invariably wins player of the season. He’s at his best when he’s busy (which doesn’t help top teams).

Practice makes perfect, ddg has been getting a lot of practice with maguire infront of him and mcfred infront of maguire with occasional brain farts from awb and telles playing everyone onside.

 

[jem]

Sorry but why do people still the manager has complete control ?

This isn’t 2012, Fergie isn’t here. We have Murtough and Arnold who have ultimate power and over any contract extension or sale.

It’s irrelevant what the manager wants, it’s not his choice. He has a limited say (1/3rd of the transfer committee) in transfer incomings that’s it.

If that's the case, then why was that line trotted in the January window that we couldn't get anybody due to not knowing who the future manager would be?

 

[Sky1981]

Hahaha. Half the fans would resort back to Id like to see what martial can do as lw under the new manager for the nth time.

We have to do our part and tell these players that we dont want them anywhere near our club. Including the likes of rashford and pogba.

You either give 100% or you can feck off

 

[77]

We actually need a clear out for the next manager after the next manager to be competitive again.

 

[Marcus]

Reset is fine by me. Get younger hungrier players like a Redbull Team.

 

[Thiagoal]

I think there will be a lot of players leaving in the summer. Pogba, Mata, Lingard, Cavani appear to be definitely going on frees. In addition Grant, Bailly, Tuanzebe, Williams, VDB, Martial, Pereira appear to have no future and are very likely to want to move on. That’s a teams worth of players that are very likely to be gone.

I can’t see any decision being made on Rashford unless someone gives us an offer too good to refuse and I suspect CR7 will stay for his final year.

We have some very talented youngsters (Laird, Fernandez, Mejbri, Shoretire, Garner, Garnacho) that will be able to fill the majority of those squad positions and with three key signings, (DM, CM, CF) and a world class coach, hopefully we’ll be moving in the right direction.

 

[ManchesterManchester]

If that's the case, then why was that line trotted in the January window that we couldn't get anybody due to not knowing who the future manager would be?

When Fergie left the decision making power went to Woody, it’s now with Arnold and Murtough. Unfortunately we have no DOF who can buy players to fit a style regardless of having a manager. I guess Murtough is our DOF but he seems to be a Glazer man and not a real DOF.

Not having a manager is just a convenient excuse to not get anyone. It goes against what they said that Murtough would bring continuity.

 

[crossy1686]

We have at least 4 players who’s contracts are ending so I’m sure it won’t be difficult to move on a few more that are already out on loan anyway

 

[jeepers]

I’m not going to list specifically whom I think should go, aside from the obvious outgoing players (contract-ending and those like Pereira who have no future here).

I just hope the board truly backs the new manager, not like how they’ve backed the previous managers. I hope they truly support the project and ideas and that the manager gets to build his team for the next 4-5 years, not for next season. I hope they are not just talking shit.

I hope the new manager clears out the toxic leakers first.Then gradually rid the club of players that are simply not good enough.

 

[wolvored]

We will have a mass clear out as there are quite a number out of contract. The thing is to get rid of a dozen or so players you need to bring in half a dozen. We are overstocked and over the next 3 years should look to move the majority on, one way or another, but can't do it all Iin one season.

 

[Bestietom]

Will the Glazers back us for a clear out is the question. We all know we need this to happen.
We will need 2 forwards 2 midfielders a CB and a RB. This is going to cost a lot of money and I cannot see the Glazers back this.

 

[captain666]

One would hope that with a new CEO and new incoming manager we are prepared to take a big bite of the bullet and get rid of a majority of the first teams bloated squad.Forget the over inflated prices we think these players are worth,just clear the decks.If the Glazers forgot about buying a fecking cricket team and invested that money in 5 new signings we may be in half decent shape for next season.

 

[Steve 007]

It’s unfortunately a clear out for me.
Keep De Gea.
Varane.
Shaw.
Bruno.
Sancho.

say goodbye to:
Jones.
Pogba.
Lingard.
Martial.
Mata.
Fred.
Dalot.
Cavani.

keep as subs.
Henderson.
AWB.
Maguire (who’d buy him)
Lindelof.
McT.
Elanga.
VdB.

let Rashford make his own mind up.
Let R make his own mind up but prefer to keep him.

This isn’t going to happen as replacing a whole squad isn’t financially feasible and we aren’t likely to be in the CL.

So in my opinion we need a minimum of a centre back, two central midfielders and a striker to get anywhere.

 

[wise_old_man]

No manager should have any input on players until he lasted two years, and here is why. Managers these days are head coaches, not squad planners. The philosophy of what football we want to play and a recruitment to fit this policy must come first. Once a manager has shown he fits well into that philosophy and can work with the players and improve them, he can have a say in what players he still needs, but not before. Otherwise, we will keep repeating the same mistakes and start a rebuild every 3 years with a new manager.

Wasn't that whole point of why we got Rangnick?

 

[AneRu]

Ironically Van der beek could be playing with his old manager if Ten Hag joins us.

In favor of a rebuild, we have numerous players leaving on a free to start with. Henderson will join a PL club with a buyback option likely, Bailly will probably go to Italy or Spain. I have no doubt Maguire can be offloaded to a team like Newcastle we just have to accept the massive transfer loss.

Off hand I think we are losing 6 to 8 players as free agents. Good thing is that for the likes of Mata and Lingard we have ready made youths from the academy and some on whom we spent millions to bring here ready to take their place.

Looking at the starting eleven:
1. I wouldn't sell Maguire just yet, I would just remove his starting privileges and bring in a CB capable of challenging him. He has shown acceptable form before.

2. The two fullback positions need upgrading or more realistic competition. Telles for all his effort and dead ball specialty lacks the agility and technique to play at this level. Dalot has been palatable but I don't think both are at the level we need. If we can sell them both, sign the Ajax RB on a free I think we can sign a starting LB relegating both AWB and Shaw to squad roles.

3. In midfield the need for a DM and a CM can be overstated. I think with a good passer as partner Fred could play a role, I like his energy but he is no DM and he could excel as a high pressing 8. I would sign a DM, (l dont think Rice is practical so I'd go with Neves) use Fred as an 8 and look to integrate Garner as a Fred alternate in the League Cup and Europa.

4. Our forward resources have shrunk considerably in January, we started the season with a top heavy squad but January hit us bad. We need a younger striker and another forward there. I doubt we will have the funds to pull off a Nunez and Nkuku signing but its what we'd need to move forward.

I would sell
Bailly £15m
Dalot £17m
Tuanzebe £20m
Telles. £15m
Martial. £30m
Henderson £25m and look to sign
Neves £50m
Nunez.£60m
Nkuku. £60m
LB £30m
RB free. Giving me a net spend of circa £80m.

There are a few players whose commitment and attitude I no longer trust but I think it would appropriate to understand the impact of two losses in major finals and the loss of Ole during the season. If I am the manager I am having meetings with our English contingent plus Bruno to lay down the Law and outline my minimum expectations. Having Lindelof, a new LB, new RB and a new forward Nkuku means that the team is insulated should they sulk again.

 

[NoLogo]

Wasn't that whole point of why we got Rangnick?

Half measures like always with us. Get an experienced DOF, make him interim manager, which means he is practically dead on arrival, don't give him any real power afterwards either but keep him around as an advisor, which means everything and nothing.

If they really had meant business they would have taken a look at Rangnick and decided that if he is the guy that brings the philosophy we want our club to embody, give him the reigns to decide how to rebuild the club. Instead, we have Murtough, the guy has been in the club since 2013, so he was already part of a team that failed, just moved up the ladder. Maybe I'm unfair to this guy, and maybe he really has good ideas and knows his stuff, but tbh this guy doesn't exactly scream "one of the best in the business." Ole called him a "cultural fit", this with the fact that he was supposedly really tight with Woodward doesn't fill me with confidence that he is the right man to move us forward.

 

[Andersonson]

Ironically Van der beek could be playing with his old manager if Ten Hag joins us.

In favor of a rebuild, we have numerous players leaving on a free to start with. Henderson will join a PL club with a buyback option likely, Bailly will probably go to Italy or Spain. I have no doubt Maguire can be offloaded to a team like Newcastle we just have to accept the massive transfer loss.

Then we dont go nowhere. If that player is suddenly good enough for is but not for Everton, we should and accept 6-8 position. If that happens we are fecked.

Imagine is starting him next season... Our midfield wouldnt even be remotely fixed...

 

[FrankDrebin]

Beek is still one of the few players we could get a good fee from.

 

[jem]

When Fergie left the decision making power went to Woody, it’s now with Arnold and Murtough. Unfortunately we have no DOF who can buy players to fit a style regardless of having a manager. I guess Murtough is our DOF but he seems to be a Glazer man and not a real DOF.

Not having a manager is just a convenient excuse to not get anyone. It goes against what they said that Murtough would bring continuity.

I'm probably being extremely naive and hopeful, but I'm wondering if Murtough may just be the one to break from the puppetocracy - if I'm not mistaken, it was his idea to bring in Rangnick, a move that I think was very forward-looking, if (and it's a huge 'if') Ralf is then given the freedom and scope to ruthlessly assess the squad.

 

[kidbob]

The only consolation I have is that some players already have their replacements here in the squad without losing anything at all.

For instance:

Bailly and Jones - Mengi (neither are ever fit anyway, so no net loss at all).
Lingard - Hannibal (Lingard has barely played this year)
Mata - Diallo (ditto to Jesse)

I might be overly optimistic but for instance if we were to lose one of the RBs and LBs then I'd be happy with Williams and Laird as back up for one season if needed to sort out other areas. No team should have a back up keeper on the wages Henderson is so a cheap replacement is grand.

Garner is there as an option to phase Matic out more and more.

Realistically the players that we absolutely need replacements for, if they leave, is Pogba, Rashford and Martial (1 top player in place of both), Ronaldo and Maguire.

For me that's 4 new signings for the first team and a number of players already at the club to further freshen the squad to replace players that, let's be honest, are a complete non entity presently. However obviously getting the 4 signings right would be needed for us to still challenge for top 4 right away. Maybe we are even lucky and some of the younger guys already here to replace the old guard might even step up.

Edit: forgot Greenwood, a replacement for him would be excellent too, so that would be 5 signings.

 

[Lee565]

If this club wants to be serious at competing for trophies, get rid of all the passengers and players on unjustified wages , bye to pogba, bye to ronaldo, martial (back on loan for another season, bye rashford, bye bissaka who thinks it's OK to just casually job back into position and could learn a thing or two from Robertson on desire, bye to cavani as he is just too injury prone, bye to mata who is serving no purpose as the bench mascot, bye to lingard who, bye to de gea as he doesn't justify his wages at all and holds the team back and makes us poor at the back

 

[NinjaZombie]

Good response. I just see a lot of posters saying De Gea should be replaced, but fail to provide a solution, so refreshing to see a logical approach.

Come on now...it's not our jobs to be providing solutions. The people in charge should be able to do what other clubs have been doing, like @JB7 just described Wolves doing.

I personally watch only United games and I realise De Gea needs replacing. I don't have the time, resources or expertise to be suggesting who replaces him. I just know that there are loads of clubs out there who constantly are able to identify transfer targets that would improve the team, and then execute a plan to do get them to their respective clubs.

 

[ManchesterManchester]

I'm probably being extremely naive and hopeful, but I'm wondering if Murtough may just be the one to break from the puppetocracy - if I'm not mistaken, it was his idea to bring in Rangnick, a move that I think was very forward-looking, if (and it's a huge 'if') Ralf is then given the freedom and scope to ruthlessly assess the squad.

I don’t think your being naive at all, we are right to be hopeful but also cautious as we haven’t seen any true change yet. I certainly hope your right and I agree that Ralf was such a welcome and needed presence for us. I would love to think they continue in this same direction.

I just can’t shake off the feeling that their heart isn’t in true change and they just want a yes man manager who will constantly achieve top 4. I also admit that I am really concerned about Fergie’s continued presence. He butted in last summer with the Ronaldo signing along with telling fans that Ole should be playing him. We can’t seem to cut the cord of the past and just move on.

 

[kidbob]

Actually the more I think of it the more I think why not. Here's what mine looks like.

Gone: Bailly and Jones, In - Mengi
Gone: Lingard, In: Mjebri
Gone: Mata, In: Diallo
Gone: Shaw/Telles, In: Williams/Fernandez (as in sell one of Shaw or Telles)
Gone: Dalot/AWB, In: Laird
Gone: Ronaldo/Cavani, In: New starting ST (Nknunu)
Gone: Greenwood, In: New back up ST (Schick)
Gone: Rashford and Martial, In: New starting RW (Raphinia)
Gone: Henderson, In: New backup keeper (fraction of wages)
Gone: Pogba, In: New CDM (Paulhinia)
Gone: Maguire, In: new CB (Araujo)

Additions to squad: Garner while keeping Matic one more year.

That's 5 signings (could be 4 by just promoting Kovar to back up keeper) and honestly can anyone tell me if we are losing anything here? I'll possibly give you RB and LB backups but the rest are players that never played being replaced by hungry young players and then the rest is about getting the signings right. Mine are just suggestions but to be honest you could replace current Rashford and Martial with a decent player and be in a better place.

There is enough money to be raised by sales there and a veritable shit tonne of wages to be saved in the long term that, while this may be unlikely, it's definitely doable.

Edit: forgot VDB who is another to keep or just get rid of with no replacement and gain or lose nothing.

If someone was to do a cost/benefit analysis of our squad, their heads would explode. So much money paid for no return.

 

[Red Shorts]

£50m is likely bollocks and there is well over £100m in sales possible. Dean Henderson, Van De Beek, Pereira, Tuanzebe, Bailly, Martial gets you in there in all likelyhood.

Just to be clear, you think those players together make £100m in sales.

 

[sparx99]

Just to be clear, you think those players together make £100m in sales.

Probably close yeah.

 

[Lee565]

Just to be clear, you think those players together make £100m in sales.

Can see it - Henderson 25 - 30 million, martial 25 - 30 million, beek 15 - 20million, bailly 10 million, Pereira 5-10 million, tuanzebe 10-15 million.

At worst it would likely be 80 or at best about 110 million