Especially if we rip it up and start again every 18-24 months. INEOS need resolve and the courage of their convictions. This might be painful short term but is worth it long term.
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- Thread starter Solius
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If they want any hope of being successful then they have to accept that this squad needs tearing up root and stem. There is some talent in there but nowhere near enough, there's no leadership and the experienced players play like oafs half the time. They need to find a way of moving on Rashford, Casemiro, Varane, Maguire, Martial, Lindelof and Fernandes without sliding so far down the table we end up like Everton and keep our best talents like Hojlund, Mainoo and Garnacho. It's going to be an incredibly difficult task, beyond comprehension and the manager market is abysmal at the minute, we need to be sensible and get in early, we may even just need someone to steady the ship for a season or two.
Yes, they don’t do knee jerk reactions, but don’t bother saying that on the Caf. You will not be heard.
That’s exactly what happens if we sell the players you mention.
It is, but they all need moving on, no? None of them are performing, they're all on massive wages and most of them are in their 30s. Doesn't have to be done in a season but it needs doing, unless you somehow think those lot are the ones to build the team around.
Wont be that hard to find better players than Rashford and Bruno. The rest are going anyway.
To be honest, I don't think we should start with the manager. We should be getting rid of the players first. Let Ten Hag be a placeholder for a little while more while we get the squad sorted out.
It wouldn't be, yet we always seem capable of signing players worse than the ones they're replacing, it's an incredible hit rate.
Agree with this. We need to get all the right people in place and not just rush into making stupid decisions. It has happened too often.
He's shown nothing to suggest he should even be in consideration for being placeholder at the minute, last season we ended up with 15 GD, this season we're currently at -2. He just can't be given another season, he's bad enough to take us into the bottom half.
What if Ten Hag wants us to build a squad that just isn't suited to the PL.
It wouldn't be a freaking knee jerk decision. After a season like this the term knee jerk needs to be banned all together
I just worry a change of manager and players at the same time is too much upheaval. And I'm more desperate to see the backs of some of these who have failed for the past few years.
I’d argue Casemiro and Varane have been performing. Bruno is just knackered, he needs competent back up and a manager to manage him and not let him continually kill him self. I personally wouldn’t sell Rashford either unless he wants out - you can’t lose Greenwood, Martial, Rashford, Ronaldo and only replace them with Hojlund. As we are seeing the numbers don’t stack up. Our squad is threadbare.
We needed 2 strikers last summer, I’d argue we still need 2 new strikers now. That isn’t going to happen in one summer.
Or we could just ban the knee jerkers and then the term wouldn’t be used so much
We will not be getting CL, just think we are too inconsistant, even more than Spurs. We are miles behind Villa, it then depends on that 5th place and if PL get that place. There is no point getting rid now, see how it goes to end of season, in the background looking at who would be a good fit for us and has the personality to be Manchester United manager.
It would be knee jerk to do something based on this season and this squad. They have written this season off. And it’s a process and it will not be a quick fix.
To be honest there's quite a lot of decisions to make on players and a lot of work for them to do. Something that doesn't get mentioned much is that a lot of our players know there's going to be yet another rebuild and a lot of them probably know they're not going to be a part of it, which must seep into their sense of commitment. Some of the starters/bench players in recent weeks have included:
Varane and Casemiro- both players linked with moves away, not part of future planning
Evans- hardly the future, maybe one more season?
Lindelof- how does he keep surviving?
Maguire and Mctominay- players we actually tried to shift in the summer
Amrabat- only on loan, not been a happy time for him here
Eriksen- not part of the future
Antony- if EtH goes, he'll probably leave
That's a lot of uncertainty there and no mention of Bruno or Rashford. Hoping they'll play for pride and play for the badge is naive considering what happened in the seasons of 18-19 and 21-22 which is where we're heading now.
They won't do anything. The real problem at this club is the fanbase's compulsive need for another Ferguson and "back the manager syndrome". This won't change unless we get an Abramovic or an authoritarian running the club.
I think it is fair to say now that Murtaugh era on the club has been the worst of the last 30+ years. Woodward has been bad but not quite this much as this guy.
Pretty much every footballing decision made since he was at the helm was a disaster. To remind you of the few (without even getting into individual signings):
- Ragnick as an interim manager with executive role plan
- ETH hiring and ditching Ragnick plan
- 2022 transfer season fiasco (failed to get rid of surplus overpaid player, overpaid for players, gave manager too much control, FFP situation got worse)
-DeGea contract fiasco
-Greenwood fiasco
-Summer 2023 transfer fiasco(failed to get rid of surplus overpaid player, overpaid for players, got manager too much control, FFP situation got worse)
Pretty much every footballing decision made since he was at the helm was a disaster. To remind you of the few (without even getting into individual signings):
- Ragnick as an interim manager with executive role plan
- ETH hiring and ditching Ragnick plan
- 2022 transfer season fiasco (failed to get rid of surplus overpaid player, overpaid for players, gave manager too much control, FFP situation got worse)
-DeGea contract fiasco
-Greenwood fiasco
-Summer 2023 transfer fiasco(failed to get rid of surplus overpaid player, overpaid for players, got manager too much control, FFP situation got worse)
I’d only be happy with that if they also sign the right players for the system they want to play. If we wait for the season to end and there’s nobody in line, then it’ll be another “team in transition” transfer shit show with yet another manager wanting his own players.
They've said they're deciding overall style of play etc at a level above the manager and only bringing in managers who will adhere to that.
But does that mean they are taking all transfer responsibility away from the manager? You run the risk there of the manager not wanting them or playing them.
I don't remember them specifically talking about it, but with the people we're bringing in, I'd hope we're moving to the kind of model most modern big clubs use, where the manager is one voice in a chorus, but we don't just go after whoever he wants regardless of cost or other options.
Hopefully we don't go to the other extreme where the manager has about as much say in transfers as the tea lady (like Chelsea).
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State of it.
If Jim's new crew allows Ten Hag to have that power, then nothing would have changed. I doubt they will cave to his demands of a fresh batch of Eredivisie players every year. That's why we want Dan Ashworth.
Derby wins is relatively close
This is almost where we need to copy City, identify the manager, after deciding what we want from the team style wise, then start recruiting players that fit that system. The club was set up for Pep when he came in and then they have built it year by year. No sitting on their laurels, if someone isn't pulling their weight, get rid. Get more players in the keep the in situ ones on their toes. We have accepted average for too long. We have become satisfied with the odd bright moment.
So they should bring in a new manager without the footballing structure being in place? You want Sir Jim, Brailsford or worse, Murtough to have input on this very important decision. I think Ashworth, Berrada and others who will be part of the new set up will want a say, and that is honestly the way it should be.
You wonder if he will accept that, especially if the style they want is not want he wants to coach.
This is all of history according to City fans
But even in the perfect scenario with everyone in place, improvements won’t be instantaneous. Sir Jim has already cautioned this as well. It will take at least 2 years to sort out this mess of a squad and FFP limitations.
We say the same thing tbh with premier leagues tbh.
It wouldn't be a one sided decision. Of course he will have a say, but at the end of the day he is a coach and the club needs him to focus on what he does best, that is being a coach, not a technical director or a scout. I doubt he wouldn't play any new players regardless on if he has or doesn't have the final say since it probably can't get any worse than what we've got.
Not to mention that their "net spend" on the books is a greater work of fiction than anything Shakespeare came up with.Derby wins is relatively close
It’s not surprising is it. Their daddy could have bought Rochdale and the same would happen. I don’t get why the football world would think any different.
They are a pointless club in general tbf.
But who says that's a style he doesn't want to coach? He played wildly different football at Ajax than he does now.
And if he for any reason still doesn't want to, that's his job on the line.
A big problem might be moving players on, we’ve rewarded mediocrity for a decade.
I said it 11 years ago and people didn’t see how blowing money on crap players was anything other then change manager issue. Chickens have well and truly been coming home to roost.
ETH will be replaced but I’d be surprised if it’s 3 years before we look like any sort of serious contender for any of the top trophies regardless of who takes over.
Unlike the Glazers hopefully these guys have seen we are a million miles off City and double down on what needs to be done.
Unfortunately I think that means Ten Hag needs to go, rip off the band aid and get it done sooner rather than later so we can start next season right and put in a style of play, and with players that can play that style of play.
A massive job but we go again.
Unfortunately I think that means Ten Hag needs to go, rip off the band aid and get it done sooner rather than later so we can start next season right and put in a style of play, and with players that can play that style of play.
A massive job but we go again.