Club ownership | Senior management team talk

golden_blunder

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Season 2024-25

Been a busy window with the most change seen in the squad for a long time



Incoming: Yoro, DeLigt, Mazraoui, Kone, Ugarte, Zirkzee

Manager: Ten Hag given an extension to his contract after winning the FA cup the previous season

Changes seen in coaching and medical staff too, including Steve McClaren and Van der Gaag departing with Rene Hake and Ruud van Nistelrooy coming in (amongst others).
 
As good a window as it's been, the midfield is still an absolute eyesore. Really should have added experienced cover there. Next season we'll probably need two midfielders.
 
I think it‘s been a mixed bag of a summer with some positive and some obvious negatives. I‘m pretty enthused that by all accounts ten Hag was overruled for Ugarte (even if I‘m not sure about the player themselves the less control ten Hag has the better), and the ability to drum up buyers for Greenwood and Sancho was really impressive and marked a sea change from what‘s come before.

The downside is we‘ve got shocking depth this season, we‘re one injury from Mainoo away from disaster in midfield and the less said about our wide options the better. It goes without saying we‘re already at bare bones at LB too. I‘m really surprised we let Hannibal and McTominay go without getting another player in. I understand FFP rules dictated we need to sell, but there‘s an awful lot of pressure being piled on a teenager and very little by the way of cover. If we can‘t find a role for Casemiro where he can perform at an adequate level then we essentially have two midfielders for an entire season.

Rest of it seems to be largely business per. Bottled the decision to replace ten Hag in favour of shuffling the deckchairs, overpaid for Yoro to ward off competition as we did with Hojlund the summer before and fannied around all summer over Ugarte to pay what PSG wanted anyway; the more favourable payment terms being easily outweighed by the fact he missed the entirety of pre season. On the surface of it few issues with De Ligt and Mazroui other than the ten Hag connection and Bayern being willing to be rid of both.

I hope that we can build on this and get a better idea where the squad is at once ten Hag is sacked, because we need at least as big a summer again next year with at least 2 midfielders, 2 wide players and a goalkeeper as things stand.
 
golden_blunder said:
Season 2024-25

Been a busy window with the most change seen in the squad for a long time



Incoming: Yoro, DeLigt, Mazraoui, Kone, Ugarte, Zirkzee

Manager: Ten Hag given an extension to his contract after winning the FA cup the previous season

Changes seen in coaching and medical staff too, including Steve McClaren and Van der Gaag departing with Rene Hake and Ruud van Nistelrooy coming in (amongst others).
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Ragnick said the whole squad needed open heart surgery which I whole heartedly agreed with him. I think in retrospect it wasn't just the squad but the entire club that needed surgery. I think the decisions INEOS have made so far around the club and squad has been good. However, the reality is we are deep in the middle of this "surgery"/change. The signings we have made are positive as are the outgoings and I think the squad as a whole is improving in terms of the profile of players a modern squad should have e.g. more technical, aggressive etc. INEOS won't be able to change everything in one summer though so what they have done so far I think has been good. There are still big questions in the squad mainly if as expected Rashford has another poor season do we move him on, are Garnacho/Amad going to be 1st 11 players for us or are they just squad quality. I think there is a question on Rasmus's role in the team and whether he can become an elite striker. All questions that I think will need resolving next summer.

If it turns out that Ten Hag can't turn things around then its important we do not make the same mistake that the Glazers did when hiring Jose after LVG and abandoning the type of football we were aiming to try and play just to hire a defensive manager who may or may not win trophies. We have started down the path of building a squad that is more technical and on the front foot so if we do have to hire a new manager then he should reflect that.

All in all, we are in middle of surgery, maybe this season ends up being a terrible one, maybe Ten Hag loses his job, either way INEOS need to remain calm and continue with the surgery that the club as a whole needs.
 
flameinthesun said:
Ragnick said the whole squad needed open heart surgery which I whole heartedly agreed with him. I think in retrospect it wasn't just the squad but the entire club that needed surgery. I think the decisions INEOS have made so far around the club and squad has been good. However, the reality is we are deep in the middle of this "surgery"/change. The signings we have made are positive as are the outgoings and I think the squad as a whole is improving in terms of the profile of players a modern squad should have e.g. more technical, aggressive etc. INEOS won't be able to change everything in one summer though so what they have done so far I think has been good. There are still big questions in the squad mainly if as expected Rashford has another poor season do we move him on, are Garnacho/Amad going to be 1st 11 players for us or are they just squad quality. I think there is a question on Rasmus's role in the team and whether he can become an elite striker. All questions that I think will need resolving next summer.

If it turns out that Ten Hag can't turn things around then its important we do not make the same mistake that the Glazers did when hiring Jose after LVG and abandoning the type of football we were aiming to try and play just to hire a defensive manager who may or may not win trophies. We have started down the path of building a squad that is more technical and on the front foot so if we do have to hire a new manager then he should reflect that.

All in all, we are in middle of surgery, maybe this season ends up being a terrible one, maybe Ten Hag loses his job, either way INEOS need to remain calm and continue with the surgery that the club as a whole needs.
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If and when United pull the plug on ETH, I really do hope they change the footballing philosophy to something different or at very least a less extreme, more flexible version
 
golden_blunder said:
If and when United pull the plug on ETH, I really do hope they change the footballing philosophy to something different or at very least a less extreme, more flexible version
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We need to embrace phenomenology.

Seriously.

Let's not embrace a 'positive vibes' coach who the senior execs can run things through, we could wind up with much, much worse than EtH.
 
Don't like you working from home, but cool with you finishing 8th with a negative goal difference and getting battered 3-0 at home to Liverpool.
 
golden_blunder said:
If and when United pull the plug on ETH, I really do hope they change the footballing philosophy to something different or at very least a less extreme, more flexible version
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When I say our philosophy I mean in terms of being on the front foot, technical and aggressive attacking football. Whether Ten Hag pulls it off of not effectively he was brought in to play that style as that was how his most successful Ajax team played. It doesn't mean bringing in another manager who leaves the midfield wide open but rather one who follows that same ethos of which there are many different ways to play. However, the likes of Tuchel for me do not adhere to that and would be similar to going from LVG to Jose (when really we should have hired a manager in the vein of LVG but who was more attacking) which is something I think we need to avoid. If our plan is to transition the club into one where it plays aggressive, technical, dominating, attacking football then the next manager should reflect that.
 
I think people often forget that the structure we had a few years ago was basically the same one that we had when Fergie was first appointed in 1986.

CEO/Chairman > First team Manager > Assistant Manager > Coaches

Fergie was here that long that he/we basically skipped about 2/3 small evolutions in football management structures. We never really had a director of football/technical director until a few years ago.

We are still paying the price of not moving with the times off the pitch when we were still successful on the pitch. We still believed that every manager has to be like Busby/Fergie with that person being at the forefront of everything.

This will take time. INEOS have made a good start with appointments off the pitch and when the eventual search for a Ten Hag replacement starts, they will be an individual to work within that structure.
 
What's the point of appointing all the best in class people in football structure when they all came to conclusions that finishing 8th is acceptable and ETH is the best available manager.

Meanwhile, Liverpool quietly went about replacing one of the best managers of all time seamlessly.

They need to admit their mistakes and rectify it asap.
 
I will respect them even more if they pull the plug on ETH sooner rather than later.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
What's the point of appointing all the best in class people in football structure when they all came to conclusions that finishing 8th is acceptable and ETH is the best available manager.

Meanwhile, Liverpool quietly went about replacing one of the best managers of all time seamlessly.

They need to admit their mistakes and rectify it asap.
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Wilcox was the only one officially through the door and while obviously the others would have been involved, they would have had to be careful and limited in what they could do in the official process

Very harsh to blame them

They’re all here now and will likely have the process again before the end of the season, so we will see what happens next time. If they get it wrong then, I’ll agree with you more
 
I wonder if they would have the balls to get rid of him during the international break.

But I can't see how ETH will survive past December. Not at this rate.

The way he sets us up is just all wrong. Really depressing to watch us these days.
 
They should sack him during the break.

I'm not sure they will. It's just delaying the inevitable at this point.
 
Sold a lot of players who needed selling. We have started the season with an underprepared squad that is not ready to compete near the top of the league. Holes that haven't been filled by recruitment and no x factor in the final third. Will be a long season, but the hope is that this is only the start of a process that sees the club starting to point in the right direction. They have it all to prove though, none of the long lasting issues will see a quick fix and it will take a sustained period of correct decision making before start to see the fruits.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Wilcox was the only one officially through the door and while obviously the others would have been involved, they would have had to be careful and limited in what they could do in the official process

Very harsh to blame them

They’re all here now and will likely have the process again before the end of the season, so we will see what happens next time. If they get it wrong then, I’ll agree with you more
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Let's be honest here. They were all heavily involved in end of the season review of ETH. There was also interviews with some candidates. This is the most important appointment of the club and 100% Berrada, Ashworth and Wilcox was involved.
 
I wanted Ten Hag gone last season and I wasn't won over by the FA Cup win because apart from the final, where I think we played well, we rode our luck in that tournament.

But even with me wanting him out I won't blame the owners for not pulling the trigger. They're new and they were still putting together the management team, plus Ten Hag had a decent first season and has won two trophies, and the dire second season was blighted by horrendous luck with injuries. With no stand out replacement I can understand why they'd want to see how Ten Hag does under the new structure.

The real test is how long are they willing to give him when the same glaring issues go unaddressed.

The problem is not getting a hiding from Liverpool. The problems are not creating enough chances, persisting with underperforming players, getting exposed in midfield, watching us give the ball away cheaply when attempting to play out from the back, opponents regularly outnumbering us when they attack and lapses in concentration.

All of these are massive and persistent failures in coaching, tactics, team selection, team management and motivation, which begs the question, what part of his job is he succeeding in?
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
They should sack him during the break.

I'm not sure they will. It's just delaying the inevitable at this point.
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In my view that would be the sensible thing to do. But I doubt they will, given it is just 3 games in and so soon after giving him that contract extension.
 
None of it matters. They have botched the only decision that matters and failed to find a manager with months and month of notice that ten hag was struggling. Cost us a year and wasted tons more money. Exactly the same carry on as the prior regime, signing players for the manager that we will likely need to replace in a few months time
 
I'm hoping they brought Ruud in with him taking over as interim and seeing if he can implement a clear style of play to show he's worthy of taking over full time. No that's not the same as Ole.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
None of it matters. They have botched the only decision that matters and failed to find a manager with months and month of notice that ten hag was struggling. Cost us a year and wasted tons more money. Exactly the same carry on as the prior regime, signing players for the manager that we will likely need to replace in a few months time
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I don't think the squad or players will need to be overturned as much as in the past. We have a talented set of players, just need someone that can set them up well. A Tuchel or Xavi would be able to implement a 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 system with this group with ease and bring the best out of the group. Xavi wanted a break and I think if we approach him soon he will jump at this and he would be great with this group but the favorite needs to be Tuchel. Martinez De Ligt and Yoro would be a dream back 3 for him. Ugarte and Mainoo in front of them and that's lockdown season against anyone. Antony could even get a new lease of life at wing back. So many options we can go with, anything would be better than EtH.
 
I feel like renewing Bruno's contract was Ineos's first proper fumble.

This summer was the right time for the player and the club to part ways. He gives the ball away far too much and the signs of his impending decline are there.

Selling him would have been a big, big statement but also allowed the player to deservedly go on to win some big trophies elsewhere. Surely neither club nor player truly believes we'll be competing for the CL or PL in the next 3 years? By which time he will be 32/33 and no longer a target for top clubs.

Ineos have shown their ability to be ruthless, and negotiate hard - I'm surprised they fell into the same trap that their predecessors did with Rashford, particularly given all the noise they are making about the importance of the game model. How does Bruno fit?
 
Made some big changes. I guess it remains to be seen if we've strengthened or not. We probably won't see the best of the new players until we get a decent manager in.

For me though, sticking to the playing staff changes, I think we needed a second midfielder to come in if we were selling McTom. He wasn't good enough for us but it was another option and we are very light on midfielders.

Possibly more importantly though, we needed to clear out two huge earners who offer extremely little. Antony and Rashford should have been priority sales and I would have been happy to keep that slimy git Sancho as a stop-gap to achieve this. Replacing just one of the two would have made a big difference. We don't score goals because we have no creativity on the wings so everyone knows where we will play and can easily stop it. There's very little need to worry about Rashford or Antony, and even Garnacho is not a huge problem unless he produces a bit of magic every few months.

Improving these two areas would make a big difference, but of course, having a competent manager would probably be an even bigger difference. I'm just not sure United knows what one of those is.
 
So, we really need these best in class people in football to come out explaining their rational of keeping ETH.

They may see something that we struggle to see with our limited vision as layman. Hope the so called experts' explanation makes sense.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
So, we really need these best in class people in football to come out explaining their rational of keeping ETH.

They may see something that we struggle to see with our limited vision as layman. Hope the so called experts' explanation makes sense.
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The likes of Wilcox see the training.

Its not like he is left alone and never observed.
 
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INEOS will hopefully learn from this summer. With no major international tournament next summer we need to hit the ground running and get our signings in as early as possible. Bad starts to the seasons seems to be a regular thing for years. Even in the seasons where we made the CL we had poor starts. I think the last decent start to a season we had was in 2017/18.
 
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We've gathered a collection of the greatest football brains out there if you believe the PR. They collectively decided to give a new deal to a con artist who should've finished 15th based on xPTS (which should be a stat said football brains pay close attention to). The only reason we finished as high as 8th was a ridiculous amount of individual brilliance. We had a double digit amount of contenders for goal of the season.

Either these football brains aren't anywhere near as shrewd as we assumed, or they simply came unprepared out of the starting blocks and shat their pants at the first hurdle. If it's the former we're fecked. If it's the latter it's not too late to act. Accept you made a grave mistake and rectify it.

At this point I'm done with the charlatan on the touchline. Everyone now accepts that he's way out of his depth (a year and a half too late mind you but what can you expect from this fanbase). The people above him have to act asap or they're no better than Woodward and the rest of those crooks from the previous era.
 
They've left themselves in a bit of a pickle now after backing Ten Hag in the summer.

Both sacking and keeping him now feels like amateur hour. I think they'll keep him at least until the next break, if the results don't improve across some tough fixtures then he'll be out the door with Ruud taking over.

It's the only issue I've got with the owners so far though, think all the backroom changes were needed and the transfer window was a success, even if I do think too many of the players had a link with Ten Hag.
 
Samid said:
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We've gathered a collection of the greatest football brains out there if you believe the PR. They collectively decided to give a new deal to a con artist who should've finished 15th based on xPTS (which should be a stat said football brains pay close attention to). The only reason we finished as high as 8th was a ridiculous amount of individual brilliance. We had a double digit amount of contenders for goal of the season.

Either these football brains aren't anywhere near as shrewd as we assumed, or they simply came unprepared out of the starting blocks and shat their pants at the first hurdle. If it's the former we're fecked. If it's the latter it's not too late to act. Accept you made a grave mistake and rectify it.

At this point I'm done with the charlatan on the touchline. Everyone now accepts that he's way out of his depth (a year and a half too late mind you but what can you expect from this fanbase). The people above him have to act asap or they're no better than Woodward and the rest of those crooks from the previous era.
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They didn't give him a new deal, the activated his 1 year extension. Very different.

Whilst I don't think ETH will work out, I also can't tell you who in the summer was the obvious candidate to replace him .lots of revisionism going on here, who was a guaranteed improvement? A sacked Tuchel who wouldn't fancy 80% of the squad?
 
P-Nut said:
They've left themselves in a bit of a pickle now after backing Ten Hag in the summer.

Both sacking and keeping him now feels like amateur hour. I think they'll keep him at least until the next break, if the results don't improve across some tough fixtures then he'll be out the door with Ruud taking over.

It's the only issue I've got with the owners so far though, think all the backroom changes were needed and the transfer window was a success, even if I do think too many of the players had a link with Ten Hag.
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They really haven’t.

I think it’s fully understandable you’d want to get your new team of football people in post (Wilcox, Ashworth, Vivel, Berada) and allow them to make an assessment.

Only Wilcox took his post quickly whilst the two main men, Ashworth and Berada, have only been at the club for a month or so.

They’ve done everything right in my opinion. As JR said football decisions should be made by football people. We’ve had meddling owners and bankers deciding what’s what for far too long.

I think fans need to accept this will take a bit of time and stop shitting the bed.
 
lilcurt said:
They didn't give him a new deal, the activated his 1 year extension. Very different.

Whilst I don't think ETH will work out, I also can't tell you who in the summer was the obvious candidate to replace him .lots of revisionism going on here, who was a guaranteed improvement? A sacked Tuchel who wouldn't fancy 80% of the squad?
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There's no revisionism. There is/was loads of candidates with a good chance of improving on a season where we were very lucky to finish top half.
 
I really hope they've left enough funds to do the right thing. Being the cheap option is probably the main reason he's still here though.
 
lilcurt said:
They didn't give him a new deal, the activated his 1 year extension. Very different.

Whilst I don't think ETH will work out, I also can't tell you who in the summer was the obvious candidate to replace him .lots of revisionism going on here, who was a guaranteed improvement? A sacked Tuchel who wouldn't fancy 80% of the squad?
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Exactly. I honestly don’t see for the life of me anybody that would have been a realistic replacement.
 
lilcurt said:
They didn't give him a new deal, the activated his 1 year extension. Very different.

Whilst I don't think ETH will work out, I also can't tell you who in the summer was the obvious candidate to replace him .lots of revisionism going on here, who was a guaranteed improvement? A sacked Tuchel who wouldn't fancy 80% of the squad?
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What is this caf obsession with 'the obvious candidate'? There are a plateau of high quality managers and coaches out there. It's literally the job of these football brains to identify the right candidate. If they failed to identify even one improvement on this fraud then they're completely out of their depths.

You lot seem to think the football managing world resolves around Tuchel and Southgate. Plot twist: It doesn't.
 
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