Coaching Today

[ukbob]

One of the biggest problems with Manchester United is the coaching staff. LVG's right hand man who sits beside him at most matches was only a dutch under 21 coach, does this qualify him to be a number two at United ? I personally do not think so.
I think that todays coaches rely to much on PC and paper credentials from regulatory departments.Coaching to me is all about skills with people something that is sorely missing with a majority of senior coaches. I shall always remember watching my grandson at the Millwall premiership academy and making an innocuous statement only to be confronted by one of the senior coaches and basically told to shut it. When questioned as to his tactics and manner he just ignored it and walked away and yet a majority of parents thought I was absolutely right.
This particular grandson who is in my opinion a great footballer has basically given up due to the lack of good coaching.
My younger 10 year old grandson is a good goalkeeper but is being pushed by his father who has no clue whatsoever as to what he should do and is signing him up at great expence to a goalkeeping course, which is of course about making money.
The sooner coaches are based on skills and human development such as Warren Joyce who is incidentally Uniteds u21 coach and quite honestly should be sitting next to LVG rather than Stuivesant

 

[Stobzilla]

Giggs is the unqualified number 2

 

[Gopher Brown]

Stuivenberg spent 13 years coaching at Feyernoord, he's not under qualified. He was Dutch U-17 and U-21 manager. Warren Joyce was only Hull City's manager for 2 seasons while they were in the fourth tier - is he qualified?

I don't think any of us really know what the coaches do, however, in their day to day jobs, or how much influence, if any, they have over the manager.

 

[do.ob]

If no2s were successful Managers themselves they wouldn't have to be someones number two.
I struggle to name more than a hand full of them and I don't remember a single one who had more in his CV than coaching a countries youth national team, before he teamed up with someone more recognized..

 

[SteveJ]

Why is it that Joyce is never considered for the manager's job (or so it appears)?

 

[bucky]

Why is it that Joyce is never considered for the manager's job (or so it appears)?

Maybe he is comfortable where he is and has it made known to the club.

 

[SteveJ]

Pity, that.

 

[Green_Red]

If no2s were successful Managers themselves they wouldn't have to be someones number two.
I struggle to name more than a hand full of them and I don't remember a single one who had more in his CV than coaching a countries youth national team, before he teamed up with someone more recognized..

Brian Kidd I believe was a no1 a couple of times. So was Keano.

 

[ukbob]

Why is it that Joyce is never considered for the manager's job (or so it appears)?

A lot of #2's are just not top management material, good coaches, yes but not just cut out for the top job. Carlos Quiroz , Brian Kidd etc. are perfect examples. However wait for the experts to say otherwise, you know those that just do not accept the truth.

 

[Green_Red]

Why is it that Joyce is never considered for the manager's job (or so it appears)?

Because he is a youth coach. Differnet ball game altogether

 

[Stack]

One of the biggest problems with Manchester United is the coaching staff. LVG's right hand man who sits beside him at most matches was only a dutch under 21 coach, does this qualify him to be a number two at United ? I personally do not think so.
I think that todays coaches rely to much on PC and paper credentials from regulatory departments.Coaching to me is all about skills with people something that is sorely missing with a majority of senior coaches. I shall always remember watching my grandson at the Millwall premiership academy and making an innocuous statement only to be confronted by one of the senior coaches and basically told to shut it. When questioned as to his tactics and manner he just ignored it and walked away and yet a majority of parents thought I was absolutely right.
This particular grandson who is in my opinion a great footballer has basically given up due to the lack of good coaching.
My younger 10 year old grandson is a good goalkeeper but is being pushed by his father who has no clue whatsoever as to what he should do and is signing him up at great expence to a goalkeeping course, which is of course about making money.
The sooner coaches are based on skills and human development such as Warren Joyce who is incidentally Uniteds u21 coach and quite honestly should be sitting next to LVG rather than Stuivesant

Do you know what LVG's right hand mans qualifications are? Do you know how he coaches?, have you ever watched his training sessions? UEFA badges are not paper qualifications, they comprise mostly of practical examination and testing. UEFA badges have a huge content which revolves around skills and human development.

 

[Kostur]

My mum always said I'm a good footballer as well, she even said numerous times that I'm the best footballer in the world.

It's incredible that I haven't been given the golden ball purely based on my PE lessons' performances.

 

[Revan]

Stuivenberg is as qualified as a No.3 can be (Giggs is No.2 in the hierarchy), though who knows how good he is.

 

[Snow]

Stuivenberg spent 13 years coaching at Feyernoord, he's not under qualified. He was Dutch U-17 and U-21 manager. Warren Joyce was only Hull City's manager for 2 seasons while they were in the fourth tier - is he qualified?

I don't think any of us really know what the coaches do, however, in their day to day jobs, or how much influence, if any, they have over the manager.

Sure there are. Different emphasis between clubs but the coaches job is sort of the same everywhere. I think @Stack is a coach and as such would have a very good idea of what Stuivenberg's role is.

Whether a person makes a good coach or not is impossible to say without watching or participating in training.

 

[ukbob]

Do you know what LVG's right hand mans qualifications are? Do you know how he coaches?, have you ever watched his training sessions? UEFA badges are not paper qualifications, they comprise mostly of practical examination and testing. UEFA badges have a huge content which revolves around skills and human development.

Yes I know all about him and qualifications. Are you UEFA qualified ? Well I am so I know what it takes.

 

[goin4glory]

Let's be honest here you have zero clue how qualified he is.

When things go badly people begin to turn on staff members who they'd be oblivious to otherwise I.E Phelan/Round.

 

[Stack]

Yes I know all about him and qualifications. Are you UEFA qualified ? Well I am so I know what it takes.

I never finished my UEFA B licence. Simple case of cost and time for me, trying to do it from the other side of the world.
Have to say this and will probably get slagged off for it but some of your other comments in your opening comment make me believe that it is highly unlikely you are UEFA qualified, Im calling BULLSHIT.

 

[Stobzilla]

To speak for Bob here, even though he is capable of doing so himself, he is known to be in the coaching game, at least that what I have picked up from his posts on here regarding the subject so there is no reason to believe he wouldn't be qualified.

Stuivenberg however is not the assistant manager, he is a coach at the club and is probably no more or less qualified than a man like Mulensteen, we do not know the extent of his involvement or whether he is working more with the youth players, even if he was working with the first team I would have no objections given his experience and qualifications. It is a silly thing to pick on our club specifically given this is a topic that does need discussing, we are hardly a club that has passed over and not given chances to players who have shown themselves to be worthy of one (yes yes, Pogba, blah blah blah).

Basically, Bob is on his blob.

 

[ukbob]

I never finished my UEFA B licence. Simple case of cost and time for me, trying to do it from the other side of the world.
Have to say this and will probably get slagged off for it but some of your other comments in your opening comment make me believe that it is highly unlikely you are UEFA qualified, Im calling BULLSHIT.

Of course you would cause you know NOTHING. If you were serious and I doubt you were you would have finished your UEFA coaches badge. no matter where you are and in NZ is just a feeble excuse.

 

[Tarrou]

@ukbob can you tell us a bit about what the UEFA qualification entails and how you'd do things differently (if at all)?

 

[ukbob]

@ukbob can you tell us a bit about what the UEFA qualification entails and how you'd do things differently (if at all)?

To qualify for a UEFA badge takes a course of so many days which is why I don't quite understand why someone would not complete the course !! Anyway, to qualify you would need to be already coaching a team and your qualifications would depend a lot on your ability to organize and coach to a certain level. However just because you have a UEFA badge does not make you a good coach. I know many UEFA badge coaches that are just rubbish and coach by the book and ignore personalities. A good manager will always have a good backup team, hence SAF was well supported.
How would I do things differently.? Well for a start every player is an individual and has to be treated as such. All players must enjoy the game much the same as people must enjoy their job, get them to do that and you will win. I expect teams I coach in warm ups to be able to do it without instructions as for tactics on the field that will change as the game progresses and a well coached team will make these minor changes.

 

[Tarrou]

Cheers for the explanation @ukbob,

 

[ukbob]

Ok, I rarely post in here as I now belong to another United website where the understanding of United is so much more mature and by some of the replies I can see why. To be honest some of the replies in here would get laughed at and not even responded to and that is a lot of the reason I decided to post again as I am very immature in my reasoning. The funny thing is a lot of the posters in the other website were former members from here. They are however very true reds and have a great understanding of United hence my passion for getting us back on track.

 

[Stobzilla]

Ok, I rarely post in here as I now belong to another United website where the understanding of United is so much more mature and by some of the replies I can see why. To be honest some of the replies in here would get laughed at and not even responded to and that is a lot of the reason I decided to post again as I am very immature in my reasoning. The funny thing is a lot of the posters in the other website were former members from here. They are however very true reds and have a great understanding of United hence my passion for getting us back on track.

Same folks who got banned or who fecked off because they couldn't use words like "gay" pejoratively or post pictures of tits anymore ? Yeah i'm sure the maturity is still as strong with them as it ever was.

 

[limerickcitykid]

One of the biggest problems with Manchester United is the coaching staff. LVG's right hand man who sits beside him at most matches was only a dutch under 21 coach, does this qualify him to be a number two at United ? I personally do not think so.
I think that todays coaches rely to much on PC and paper credentials from regulatory departments.Coaching to me is all about skills with people something that is sorely missing with a majority of senior coaches. I shall always remember watching my grandson at the Millwall premiership academy and making an innocuous statement only to be confronted by one of the senior coaches and basically told to shut it. When questioned as to his tactics and manner he just ignored it and walked away and yet a majority of parents thought I was absolutely right.
This particular grandson who is in my opinion a great footballer has basically given up due to the lack of good coaching.
My younger 10 year old grandson is a good goalkeeper but is being pushed by his father who has no clue whatsoever as to what he should do and is signing him up at great expence to a goalkeeping course, which is of course about making money.
The sooner coaches are based on skills and human development such as Warren Joyce who is incidentally Uniteds u21 coach and quite honestly should be sitting next to LVG rather than Stuivesant

Do you have any particular insight into Stuivenberg's skills and human development that causes you not to rate him? Its just the only reason you give is that he was only a dutch u21 coach while also praising Joyce for his work with our u21s.

 

[Stack]

Of course you would cause you know NOTHING. If you were serious and I doubt you were you would have finished your UEFA coaches badge. no matter where you are and in NZ is just a feeble excuse.

I attempted the B licence in 2008-9 season. The course back then was split into 3 five day sections. It meant I had to take 8 days each time from my business and travel to the UK to take part as in NZ we do not at this point have UEFA accreditation for our own courses. Each trip cost me approx $US6k including air fares, accomodation, course fees and expenses. I only completed 2 of the week long sections as my business ended up requiring attention and I could not afford the time away.
Not sure what UEFA course you are claiming to have done, they take more than just several days. Between sections you are required to complete modules and also provide video of you working. Out of interest what topics did you present sessions for and how many sessions did you present to the group when you did the course?