Common Misconception about United

[ColvaleGoa]

Read this on twitter today , written by Tim long. Makes a good read . Lots of common sense but also sticking up for the Glazers.
I have posted links to a few tweets but rest can be read there.

Thoughts on this?

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[pacifictheme]

I can see this going well.

 

[11101]

Read this on twitter today , written by Tim long. Makes a good read . Lots of common sense but also sticking up for the Glazers.
I have posted links to a few tweets but rest can be read there.

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Is our fancy new scouting system simply viewing whoscored.com on the latest version of Chrome?


To be fair I have been mostly happy with who we have brought in recently. None of this explains the farce that was this summer though. I dont know who was to blame but it definitely wasnt Ole.

 

[Skills]

There was talk on the Ornstein and Chapman podcast, that we've been after a data scientist for the last few months. Apparently quite close to appointing one now as a piece of this revamped transfer strategy

 

[Wumminator]

After Jose the club were in a completely toxic place. We had signed stop gaps, the younger players were frustrated and linked with leaving and the signings had all been abysmal. We had an aging squad that didn’t fit together on massive wages.

In the last two years we’ve got our wage bill under control. We are signing players early into their careers or who can do a specific job for us. We are not paying over the odds. We have got rid of a lot of players but refused to give them away.

We have clearly changed. Think of some of the insults thrown at the club over the last year:
A) Brexit FC - completely debunked
B) Ole can’t attack - completely debunked
C) Our signings haven’t been good enough - completely debunked
D) Ole can’t get us top four - completely debunked
E) Ole doesn’t play youth - this was stupid at the time.


I’m happy with everything the club has done over the last two years. From taking a lead on refusing to furlough players and all of the charity work we have done.

 

[MadDogg]

There's nothing in there that's inherently wrong. The question ultimately becomes how long are we going to try to do it with our own in-house options and how many chances will we give them, rather than bring in somebody who has experience at building a successful system elsewhere? Should we have done that first before trying to do it ourselves? Will we end up proven correct and this works out over the next few years (obviously the best case scenario)?

We do still seem to be paying too much in wages, if what the rumours about Henderson and Williams' new contracts are true. And the Sancho move should have been called off earlier than it was, even if for only PR reasons. It made us look amateur the way we seemed to be half-arsed trying all the way up to the close of the window.

 

[Raw]

He said he'd discuss 10 common misconceptions. Where are the other 7 dammit!?

Edit: never mind, they're just in the replies

 

[Mickson]

Good recent deals? James? Maguire? AWB? I don't agree with that. And I don't think Ole is good enough, so that's just his opinion and this is mine. Also, I don't think that Woodward is choosing the deals, I don't think anyone really thinks that? I really don't know what's new with his tweets. Some nuance, yes, but I still think United is pretty badly run which I can give at least ten examples of.

 

[Red00012]

Good recent deals? James? Maguire? AWB? I don't agree with that. And I don't think Ole is good enough, so that's just his opinion and this is mine. Also, I don't think that Woodward is choosing the deals, I don't think anyone really thinks that? I really don't know what's new with his tweets. Some nuance, yes, but I still think United is pretty badly run which I can give at least ten examples of.

AWB has arguably been our best player this season alongside Rashford

 

[fergieisold]

Enjoyable to read those tweets...sounds like we are getting things right and hopefully the future is looking good!

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I agree with the misconception that we struggle against low blocks. We didn't struggle with that during the restart

 

[Valuedrug]

Not sure I see anything new here. No doubt Woodward and his cronies would love for everyone to just get on the train again the second we see some positives from the team again, but I think that would be a mistake. To me the Glazers are definitely holding the club back, and until we see a sustained, dominant run by the team against a variety of opposition setups, as well as a manager looking confident and comfortable in his position, I will also doubt how far Ole and his team can really take us.

As always, I hope dearly to be proven wrong by him, because for once actually sticking with a management team for a longer period of time would be so much easier than having to switch things up at the foundations again.

 

[cyberman]

We also arent a counter attack side. Its such lazy analysis by fecking ESPN FC and all that its bordering on negligent.
Having pace up top doesnt automatically mean we are a counter attacking side. Craig Burley saying we counter attack because we cant live with the big sides was mind boggingly stupid to me

 

[Mihai]

Good recent deals? James? Maguire? AWB? I don't agree with that. And I don't think Ole is good enough, so that's just his opinion and this is mine. Also, I don't think that Woodward is choosing the deals, I don't think anyone really thinks that? I really don't know what's new with his tweets. Some nuance, yes, but I still think United is pretty badly run which I can give at least ten examples of.

Go on.

 

[meamth]

Good recent deals? James? Maguire? AWB? I don't agree with that. And I don't think Ole is good enough, so that's just his opinion and this is mine. Also, I don't think that Woodward is choosing the deals, I don't think anyone really thinks that? I really don't know what's new with his tweets. Some nuance, yes, but I still think United is pretty badly run which I can give at least ten examples of.

James for the price, has delivered when we lost our big players last season. He might seems useless now, but that's what it is, the patience is always fickle around here. I'm not surprised.

AWB is bad? why? Because you want another TAA? Alphonse Davies? Just because he suffered a dip, he is still an ace defender.

Maguire is bad? seriously. why? 6-1? Bad run at the end of last season?

I'm really curious what is bad, list it.

 

[meamth]

We also arent a counter attack side. Its such lazy analysis by fecking ESPN FC and all that its bordering on negligent.
Having pace up top doesnt automatically mean we are a counter attacking side. Craig Burley saying we coubtet attack because we cant live with the big sides was mind boggingly stupid to me

That annoyed me so much.

Who is the other guy in spectacles? Can't stand him. A proper bellend.

 

[cyberman]

That annoyed me so much.

Who is the other guy in spectacles? Can't stand him. A proper bellend.

Steve Nichol.

 

[sugar_kane]

We also arent a counter attack side. Its such lazy analysis by fecking ESPN FC and all that its bordering on negligent.
Having pace up top doesnt automatically mean we are a counter attacking side. Craig Burley saying we coubtet attack because we cant live with the big sides was mind boggingly stupid to me

Craig Burley is either a serial troll or hopelessly thick (maybe both) - even his colleagues seem to think he is a figure of ridicule.

With regards to those tweets, they seem to be conflating Ole’s positive influence with the people who run the club. If he left tomorrow they wouldn’t have any plan and the chaos would continue.

The most positive thing I could say about the Glazers/Woodward is that they aren’t shy of spending on transfers, despite the fan and media meltdown every transfer window. The problem is over 7 years we have signed some absolute bilge, with no consistent overarching plan.

They didn’t back Mou in his last window and rightly so, but they fecked up by not also sacking him - textbook case of having your cake and eating it also.

One thing I do think we as a club also deserve credit for and surprisingly not mentioned is their transfer policy at youth level, we seem to be doing the right thing and trying to sign the stars of the future before they become worth hundreds of millions. That’s what any smart club should be doing right now.

Again, not convinced this is the owners/Woodward driving it or someone else within the club who actually knows what they’re doing.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Go on.

I would like to see them as well. Especially since we are talking about since OGS took over.

 

[El Zoido]

He’s completely right, the only thing I’d disagree with is the dithering in the transfer window in the summer. I’ve always been a fan of getting deals done early. That said, all the last minute signings do look good.

Ole is sorting this club out, the man deserves huge credit. His philosophy of targeting the correct personality of player is vital, it makes a huge difference AND it bleeds in to the rest of the squad. Di Maria, Sanchez, Schweinsteiger, all these players coming here for a pay day/holiday, none of this would have happened under Ole. He’s not interested in signing players to sell shirts, he can see the bigger picture. Anyone that wants him replaced with Pochettino is playing with fire in my opinion. Ole might not win us the league but he’s doing one hell of a job steadying the ship. I really don’t know how every United fan isn’t loving this team right now, I know I am.

 

[meamth]

Steve Nichol.

With that accent and arrogance...damn.

"United were terrible until the last 20 minutes or even 10 minutes before the final whistle".

If I can smack someone in the face, it's him.

 

[cyberman]

With that accent and arrogance...damn.

"United were terrible until the last 20 minutes or even 10 minutes before the final whistle".

If I can smack someone in the face, it's him.

Another side would have scored 2 or 3 against them before the subs comes on.. .
I know its a stupid, digestible magazine show but it honestly feels like our big wins are easily dismissed as beating Newcastle etc in the wider media. Oh that just suits them, its teams that sit back thats the real test. Its all nonsense.

 

[TwoSheds]

The key bit there is Matt Judge. So basically most transfers will have to be signed off by Judge, Woody and Joel as well as presumably scouts, coach etc who actually know what they're talking about but don't necessarily have much input on the financials. The financials come from the 3 Toby jugs.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

He’s completely right, the only thing I’d disagree with is the dithering in the transfer window in the summer. I’ve always been a fan of getting deals done early. That said, all the last minute signings do look good.

Ole is sorting this club out, the man deserves huge credit. His philosophy of targeting the correct personality of player is vital, it makes a huge difference AND it bleeds in to the rest of the squad. Di Maria, Sanchez, Schweinsteiger, all these players coming here for a pay day/holiday, none of this would have happened under Ole. He’s not interested in signing players to sell shirts, he can see the bigger picture. Anyone that wants him replaced with Pochettino is playing with fire in my opinion. Ole might not win us the league but he’s doing one hell of a job steadying the ship. I really don’t know how every United fan isn’t loving this team right now, I know I am.

my 2 very simple question to anyone who has been knocking OGS over the past 20 months are these?

1. What more did you expect given where we were?
2. who could have done a better job

Did anyone think it was realistic that we should be challenging for the league this season? He got us back in the CL, we’ve gone deep into some cups. With a bit of luck, would have won something. But that will come.

whether it’s a modern fan, or modern football fan, everyone wants instant success.

that’s not possible, most of the time. The manager, the players, the team need time.

mom astonished by those who can’t see the progress the team has made, and forgotten the absolute mess left by Jose and £500m of reckless spending.

as we are growing, we will be inconsistent, young players, new players will be inconsistent. Get over it quickly when we lose, and support the bloody team.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

There's nothing in there that's inherently wrong. The question ultimately becomes how long are we going to try to do it with our own in-house options and how many chances will we give them, rather than bring in somebody who has experience at building a successful system elsewhere? Should we have done that first before trying to do it ourselves? Will we end up proven correct and this works out over the next few years (obviously the best case scenario)?

We do still seem to be paying too much in wages, if what the rumours about Henderson and Williams' new contracts are true. And the Sancho move should have been called off earlier than it was, even if for only PR reasons. It made us look amateur the way we seemed to be half-arsed trying all the way up to the close of the window.

I'm confused with what you seem to allude to. Do we need a better manager/DOF? If the manager we did go with established names in Jose and LVG and that didn't work out. As for the DOF/structure I think we see that Ole is more long term than most. It would have helped to get a structure but OGS gets the United culture. I believe board is worried about a clash of ideologies if any appointment were to be made now. Much prudent to wait until the next manager (or continue with this if OGS succeeds which I hope he does)

Agree with the wage bit but few positive changes seen in past year. Sancho move was a disaster all round.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Seems a decent point of view.

 

[sajeev]

After Jose the club were in a completely toxic place. We had signed stop gaps, the younger players were frustrated and linked with leaving and the signings had all been abysmal. We had an aging squad that didn’t fit together on massive wages.

I think this aspect is quite overlooked and a testament to Ole's work.
The fact that other than Pogba, everyone is on board and there is excitement around the young players is directly attributable to the work that Ole has done.
I think on the man management side of things he is right up there with anyone else currently managing

 

[red woppit]

my 2 very simple question to anyone who has been knocking OGS over the past 20 months are these?

1. What more did you expect given where we were?
2. who could have done a better job

Did anyone think it was realistic that we should be challenging for the league this season? He got us back in the CL, we’ve gone deep into some cups. With a bit of luck, would have won something. But that will come.

whether it’s a modern fan, or modern football fan, everyone wants instant success.

that’s not possible, most of the time. The manager, the players, the team need time.

mom astonished by those who can’t see the progress the team has made, and forgotten the absolute mess left by Jose and £500m of reckless spending.

as we are growing, we will be inconsistent, young players, new players will be inconsistent. Get over it quickly when we lose, and support the bloody team.

Very well said, agree totally with your comments, but there will some on here that will dismiss everything that appears too positive.
Everyone's obviously entitled to there own opinion, but the change within the football side of the club in two years has been phenomenal, and the people who can't see that, just don't want to acknowledge it, as it may damage their delicate egos.

 

[red woppit]

I think this aspect is quite overlooked and a testament to Ole's work.
The fact that other than Pogba, everyone is on board and there is excitement around the young players is directly attributable to the work that Ole has done.
I think on the man management side of things he is right up there with anyone else currently managing

On Pogba. He certainly looked more like a team player on Wednesday, and he looked fit, so perhaps Ole leaving him out, and with the options available on the bench, we may see him fight more for his place, which is most definitely on the left of a midfield three, or possibly in the 10 position, but most certainly not a midfield two. I still wouldn't be surprised to see Pogba move on though, as I don't think we'll offer him what he wants in his new contract, hopefully those days of paying over the odds on 'star' players has gone.

 

[klayton88]

Won a few games have we.

 

[NorLogs]

Good recent deals? James? Maguire? AWB? I don't agree with that. And I don't think Ole is good enough, so that's just his opinion and this is mine. Also, I don't think that Woodward is choosing the deals, I don't think anyone really thinks that? I really don't know what's new with his tweets. Some nuance, yes, but I still think United is pretty badly run which I can give at least ten examples of.

Not saying this guy is 100 % on all his points, but one very clear difference comes to mind between his and yours opinions: He actually explains his opinions, with numbers, arguments and written out sentences. It's fair to have a different opinion, especially about something as trivial and subjective as football and its ways, but one could argue that opinions without arguments are just wasted words in an attempt to brand yourself as negative for the sake of negativity. Not that I would ever put that on you, cause I don't know you that well. But, if you are going to be outspoken about your opinion, people tend to welcome arguments and some base to lay said opinions on. If not, whats the point?

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

With that accent and arrogance...damn.

"United were terrible until the last 20 minutes or even 10 minutes before the final whistle".

If I can smack someone in the face, it's him.

He s literally, the worst.

 

[Mickson]

AWB has arguably been our best player this season alongside Rashford

The memory is short. He has been good against PSG and last night. Hardly impressive otherwise. If you pay £50M for someone, you expect them to control a football without falling over. In 90% of our games, he is useless (in the sense that he doesn't contribute at all against a team like Crystal Palace).

James for the price, has delivered when we lost our big players last season. He might seems useless now, but that's what it is, the patience is always fickle around here. I'm not surprised.

AWB is bad? why? Because you want another TAA? Alphonse Davies? Just because he suffered a dip, he is still an ace defender.

Maguire is bad? seriously. why? 6-1? Bad run at the end of last season?

I'm really curious what is bad, list it.

You can't just defend James for the price! He cost us £20M! Hardly a free transfer. And no, what the hell is this? The guy is an attacking player and hasn't scored or assisted in the league for a year. Are we even discussing this?

Yes, we are an attacking team and need attacking full-backs. Players like AWB and Shaw held us back enormously last season, and that's why we moved for Telles who can attack.

I'm not saying Maguire is bad. He's a decent player. Do I think it's a good deal paying 1 billion for him? No, and find me one non-United fan who thinks that.

What is bad? Well, we have way too high wages which means we can barely sell any player. We literally paid Sanchez to leave. Our wage structure is still fecked, and only a couple of months ago we gave a huge new contract to a keeper that had never played for the club and is unproven at that level.

We still haven't a red thread in our transfers, neither in nor out. Why didn't we sell Romero? Or loan out Rojo?

And transfers in. Four players in on deadline day, does that gives you a sense that the club is sitting still in a boat with confidence? And another high earning player in Cavani who is yet to do something of worth.

Our manager has been with the club for two years and we are 15th in the league. He hasn't won at home in the league yet this season...

This is only a few things that is wrong with our club.

 

[roonster09]

Some of the misconceptions or myths are hilarious,

1. Woodward don't want to spend, penny pinching and all that
2. Woodward signed players like Fred, Pogba, Di Maria, players who were not manager signings.

So Woodward doesn't spend money but somehow spends 50+ million for lols on the players who aren't wanted by managers.

 

[Footy van de Geek]

I don’t like Tim Long. He’s too one sided. He has an excuse for everything.

He comes across as smug with his views as well.

Some people abuse him and call him a Glazer stooge because he works for MUTV on commentary. I don’t think he is. He probably believes what he’s saying. It’s just very tunnel vision. There is always a reason for why something went wrong, why we lost, etc. Very little critical analysis. Rebuild and patience are his buzz words.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

Won a few games have we.

Yup. Around 24 in 32 games over the past few months. Cheers.

 

[Giggsy13]

I’ll give credit where it’s due, they’ve beefed up the youth ranks and seemed to have signed some very bright prospects around Europe. It’s a smart strategy to take long term and it’s been the foundation of our most successful periods: a strong youth core in our first team complimented with world class signings elsewhere.

They’ve spent money but we all know it’s been poorly spent. They also have a trend of not fully backing managers after champions league football has been achieved. Then there is OT, which is in need of substantial repairs, modernizing and upgrading to keep up with the big clubs in Europe. Whether or not they’re committed to improving OT is seriously in question.

 

[meamth]

The memory is short. He has been good against PSG and last night. Hardly impressive otherwise. If you pay £50M for someone, you expect them to control a football without falling over. In 90% of our games, he is useless (in the sense that he doesn't contribute at all against a team like Crystal Palace).




You can't just defend James for the price! He cost us £20M! Hardly a free transfer. And no, what the hell is this? The guy is an attacking player and hasn't scored or assisted in the league for a year. Are we even discussing this?

Yes, we are an attacking team and need attacking full-backs. Players like AWB and Shaw held us back enormously last season, and that's why we moved for Telles who can attack.

I'm not saying Maguire is bad. He's a decent player. Do I think it's a good deal paying 1 billion for him? No, and find me one non-United fan who thinks that.

What is bad? Well, we have way too high wages which means we can barely sell any player. We literally paid Sanchez to leave. Our wage structure is still fecked, and only a couple of months ago we gave a huge new contract to a keeper that had never played for the club and is unproven at that level.

We still haven't a red thread in our transfers, neither in nor out. Why didn't we sell Romero? Or loan out Rojo?

And transfers in. Four players in on deadline day, does that gives you a sense that the club is sitting still in a boat with confidence? And another high earning player in Cavani who is yet to do something of worth.

Our manager has been with the club for two years and we are 15th in the league. He hasn't won at home in the league yet this season...

This is only a few things that is wrong with our club.

Let's agree to disagree here.

Your assessment is over the top and biased.
AWB is useless 90% of the time here? You're crazy.

James is always a potential type of signing. He might not make it here, so what? It's the type of signing we should always make. Liverpool, City has their fair share of flop signings.

Great, we're adding another dimension with Telles.

Sanchez was a disaster, and if that's the fastest way to get rid, get rid. Why are you trying to get the best deal out of something that is rotten?

Henderson is highly rated, why is it a problem?

Because we couldn't find the best deal for Rojo and Romero?? You were spouting shyte about letting go for Sanchez bad deal, and yet you want the club to get rid without the best deal. Contradiction.

Sancho isn't worth it, Amad and Pellistri is in that pool of high rated RW. So what? At least we tried until the end for Sancho. So now it's a problem when we go for plan B?

Cavani looked good so far in his cameo. Worth it.

15th in 5 games with a game in hand. Even City is struggling. Maybe you're the type of person who doesn't believe in Pre Season fitness. That's your problem.
We're looking fitter since Newcastle, we will become stronger.

You're a pessimist, I get it. Won't try to change your views, as it seems success is the only thing you seek.

We're clearly in the right path.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

Let's agree to disagree here.

Your assessment is over the top and biased.
AWB is useless 90% of the time here? You're crazy.

James is always a potential type of signing. He might not make it here, so what? It's the type of signing we should always make. Liverpool, City has their fair share of flop signings.

Great, we're adding another dimension with Telles.

Sanchez was a disaster, and if that's the fastest way to get rid, get rid. Why are you trying to get the best deal out of something that is rotten?

Henderson is highly rated, why is it a problem?

Because we couldn't find the best deal for Rojo and Romero?? You were spouting shyte about letting go for Sanchez bad deal, and yet you want the club to get rid without the best deal. Contradiction.

Sancho isn't worth it, Amad and Pellistri is in that pool of high rated RW. So what? At least we tried until the end for Sancho. So now it's a problem when we go for plan B?

Cavani looked good so far in his cameo. Worth it.

15th in 5 games with a game in hand. Even City is struggling. Maybe you're the type of person who doesn't believe in Pre Season fitness. That's your problem.
We're looking fitter since Newcastle, we will become stronger.

You're a pessimist, I get it. Won't try to change your views, as it seems success is the only thing you seek.

We're clearly in the right path.

But it isn't success that they seek, surely; because we've had that over a long enough time line (post lockdown) now for it to not be assumed as a fact. We've lost just 4 games of the last 34. At this point one can have legitimate concerns but to downright disregard Ole's achievements borders on the delusional.

Also re his thoughts on AWB maybe we're not watching the same game. He was 2nd for most successful tackles in the league last season iirc? Has been immense defensively against quality wingers and in the 2nd half started seeing more attacking involvement as well. Looking forward.

 

[macheda14]

I agree with the misconception that we struggle against low blocks. We didn't struggle with that during the restart

Now what we seem to struggle Most with is high pressing teams. Although we may have now got a system to fix that issue after the Leipzig match.