Conceding from set pieces

Fortitude

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Anyone else but me solely - and perhaps irrationally - blame Maguire for practically every set piece goal we concede?

Yesterday, for example, was it his fault or not for failing to read the flight of the ball and getting caught under it and in a throng of bodies as a result?
 

Kag

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The ball was headed on the five yard line. De Gea should be claiming that with a blindfold, really.

We do look vulnerable from set pieces in general, though. Our set up looks very zonal and I don’t like it at all.
 

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Goalkeeper should be coming off his line to claim a ball 6 yards out. He has the advantage of being able to catch or punch the ball using outstretched arms.
 

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It would help if we marked their only threat from a corner properly.

Otamendi is there only player that's strong in the air... We should have dealt with him better then putting AWB on him, and that's down to a lack of organisation.
 

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Its not even the fact that David didn't come to claim it but he also left his line and ended up in no man's land to save it. He redeemed himself with a fantastic save right afterwards from Mahrez though.
 

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When De Gea 1st started there were so many teams (Stoke comes to mind) who were targetting his weak physique at set pieces and there was a danger he would have to be replaced by Lindergard. He overcame that to become the amazing talent that he now is. However he is not as commanding as he could be. Thats why Peter Schmeichel for me would be our all time #1 with De Gea and Van der Saar vying for number 2 (from the days I have seen... i.e. Gary Bailey onwards).
 
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Kerry Donaghy

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Goalkeeper should be coming off his line to claim a ball 6 yards out. He has the advantage of being able to catch or punch the ball using outstretched arms.
Agree 100%, I have been painstakingly trying to point out this simple fact for years now.
De Gea may as well not be there when a corner/cross comes in.
It's, for me, the number one reason why our defence has struggled and will continue to struggle so long as De Gea is our keeper no matter how much money we spend on defenders.
Even if he was the best shot stopper in the world (which he's clearly not now anyway) it doesn't compensate for this massive liability from set pieces/crosses.
 

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We need one of Maguire or Lindelof to attack the ball, and let others man mark. Vidic or Bruce always attacked the ball, and cleared.
 

starman

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Theres unreal expectations on Maguire that's he's going to clear and win everything.
Its very hard for him on the goal, when Otamendi lost his marker and was charging in on goal, Otamendi is favourite here as he has the run on the ball. De Gea and Otamendi marker was more at fault than Maguire, imo
 

PaulRich

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As above, the keeper has to be calling the shots at dealing with that ball so close to the line. Cracking header though.
 
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The ball was headed on the five yard line. De Gea should be claiming that with a blindfold, really.
This, MOTD has a great example last night of a keeper (Ben Foster) turning a similar corner into an attack for his team.

De Gea’s great on his line but he must be a nightmare for his defenders on set pieces, Otamendi had such a run on AWB last night and headed from 5 yards, that’s a hell to defend.
 

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The problem was the initial set up. Going zonal makes us easy to score against.

Maguire is there to win anything in the 6-yard box, but he at least needs AWB to slow down Otamendi's momentum.

If blame is going to be apportioned anywhere (and it's probably harsh to do so on a single player), it's on AWB for allowing the attacker to get a run before his jump.
 

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This wasnt on Maguire, it was on AWB and De Gea. AWB was man marking while Maguire was zonal. I think we lack some aggressiveness in defending and attacking set pieces
 

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I thought Maguire was supposed to be great in the air?
I have a terrible memory, but from the picture I get in my head he does indeed seem to feck up on set pieces. Wan-Bissaka gets negatives thrown his way for trying to help out when it's Maguire's responsibility.

To those of you who argue against AWB here: Why is Maguire standing still? He should be better oriented and attack the ball earlier.
 

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Even during periods when our defence functioned very well over the period of last 10 years we were always poor at defending set pieces, and only one name was consistent in that backline. De Gea is great keeper but we had problems from set pieces when he came even while Vidic was playing. He is simply poor at set pieces.

We have conceeded that exact same goal 3 times at tne etihad now
Yep, probably even more than 3. Remember Kompany alone scoring at least 2 identical goals against us.
 
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I thought Maguire was supposed to be great in the air?
I have a terrible memory, but from the picture I get in my head he does indeed seem to feck up on set pieces. Wan-Bissaka gets negatives thrown his way for trying to help out when it's Maguire's responsibility.
If you think any defender is responsible for heading there you haven’t the foggiest, keeper has to take those all day every day.
 

Ødegaard

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If you think any defender is responsible for heading there you haven’t the foggiest, keeper has to take those all day every day.
We have a keeper who refuses to come out to catch those. If every fan knows that then Maguire should too.
In other words I agree that it should be De Gea's responsibility, but it isn't at United.
 
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We have a keeper who refuses to come out to catch those. If every fan knows that then Maguire should too.
In other words I agree that it should be De Gea's responsibility, but it isn't at United.
It’s a nightmare to defend a corner there though as the striker will pretty much always have a massive run on the defender. For Maguire there is kinda like trying to beat someone at a high jump with a 3 yard run up when he has 10 yards.
 

Andycoleno9

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Maguire must clear that. De gea can go for punch, Awb needs to do better but your best defender in air just must be the king around 6 yard box.
 

Ødegaard

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It’s a nightmare to defend a corner there though as the striker will pretty much always have a massive run on the defender. For Maguire there is kinda like trying to beat someone at a high jump with a 3 yard run up when he has 10 yards.
Yeah, it's a terrible way to set up. The following is of course just how I see things:
AWB can't wrestle Otamendi to the ground or be a road-block, not with VAR anyway, Jesus(?) goes into Lindelöf's back so he can't do anything. It's up to De Gea (mainly) and when he fails, Maguire to sort that out. Maguire is in a terrible position due to having a zone to start in that gives him no real pace to pick up and De Gea is half-way off his line when he regrets coming off it.
I'd expect a great aerial defender to attack the ball, but in this case I might be harsh on Maguire as he'd need a lot of acceleration in order to get into position to hit the ball, but trying could have made it much harder for Otamendi to get it on target.

Ultimate blame lies with De Gea, but Maguire could have made it much harder for Otamendi. It was a great setup by City and a poor one by us. But I'm not really in the mood to talk shit about our players over the goal against, it was a brilliant game and I'm happy with all of them. :D
 

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DDG has improved but he still dosnt come for as many crosses as he should.
As someone else pointed out its the one area of the job where Schmeichel beats him.
Ottamendi showed great desire to get on the end of it though, when is the last time we had a player attack a cross like that?
 

VeevaVee

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We've been terrible at defending corners for years now. Yet make every other team look incredible at it.
 

alexthelion

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Anyone else but me solely - and perhaps irrationally - blame Maguire for practically every set piece goal we concede?

Yesterday, for example, was it his fault or not for failing to read the flight of the ball and getting caught under it and in a throng of bodies as a result?
This is where a goalie who commands his area would be a godsend. A ball that close to goal should be the keeper's all day, every day.
 

Cliche Guevara

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De Gea doesn’t come for anything and that’s a problem for us.

Any World Class centre-half melts anything that comes his way, however, so that’s also a problem.
 

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With a keeper that never comes off his line we’re putting pressure on ourselves to get our head on everything. If an opposition player gets a connection 6 yards out there’s every chance we could concede. Dave has to take responsibility for a lot of these
 

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After having watched the goals a few times... yes it was a bit weak by both AWB and Maguire, but also a great goal.
 

Kerry Donaghy

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If you think any defender is responsible for heading there you haven’t the foggiest, keeper has to take those all day every day.
Welcome to my world, I've been trying for years to point out how big of a problem this is for our defence but, for some bizarre reason, our fans think this is normal.
De Gea may as well not be there when a corner or cross comes in so it doesn't matter how much money we spend on defenders, there are going to struggle.
Nobody is saying he should be coming out and claiming every corner or cross, but for one's like that Otamdendi goal (just like Lewis Dunks a few weeks ago and hundreds of others before that), when it's 5 yards from goal, the keeper has to come out and at least try to claim or punch it.
Why wouldn't he? Is it not common sense that a keeper, who is allowed to use his hands, is going to have a better chance of preventing the goal by coming for the cross rather than trying to save a header from point blank range?
Its laughable how it keeps costing us goals and points yet nobody seems to think it's an issue.
 

jackal&hyde

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It would help if we marked their only threat from a corner properly.

Otamendi is there only player that's strong in the air... We should have dealt with him better then putting AWB on him, and that's down to a lack of organisation.
We made the same mistake with Vestegaard against Southampton. I don't get why we don't use Maguire against their most obvious threat.
 

SadlerMUFC

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Anyone else but me solely - and perhaps irrationally - blame Maguire for practically every set piece goal we concede?

Yesterday, for example, was it his fault or not for failing to read the flight of the ball and getting caught under it and in a throng of bodies as a result?
That goal was totally on De Gea. An inswinger into the 6. That's the keepers area. De Gea started to come out and then he stopped. And as soon as the goal went in he put his hand up to accept responsibility. He needs to be braver there. Punch the ball and we keep a clean sheet...
 

gerdm07

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The ball was headed on the five yard line. De Gea should be claiming that with a blindfold, really.

We do look vulnerable from set pieces in general, though. Our set up looks very zonal and I don’t like it at all.
This. I think De Gea was at fault for another corner goal just a few weeks ago for not coming off his line.
 

Kerry Donaghy

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This. I think De Gea was at fault for another corner goal just a few weeks ago for not coming off his line.
Lewis Dunks for Brighton, it went under the radar because we won, but obviously over a season this will cost us points, just like it has been doing for ten years now, but, amazingly, some fans think we still have the best keeper in the world.
 

Dr. Dwayne

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The problem was the initial set up. Going zonal makes us easy to score against.

Maguire is there to win anything in the 6-yard box, but he at least needs AWB to slow down Otamendi's momentum.

If blame is going to be apportioned anywhere (and it's probably harsh to do so on a single player), it's on AWB for allowing the attacker to get a run before his jump.
I disagree about blaming AWB. Otamendi runs in from the 18 yard line. Whoever is up there with him and letting him be goal side and not tracking him is to blame.* Everyone else is reacting to a guy who's had 12 yards to sprint in and head the ball. No one is stopping that human cannonball without an equivalent run up. So it's the set up that should take the blame.

*It's Dan James, not to suggest James should be marking CBs on corners but the set up was bad. People weren't paying attention.
 
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NewGlory

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The ball was headed on the five yard line. De Gea should be claiming that with a blindfold, really.

We do look vulnerable from set pieces in general, though. Our set up looks very zonal and I don’t like it at all.
That goal was 100% Maguire shitting his pants. Absolutely unacceptable how Otamendi flew over his head.

I don't blame De Gea, because I saw David starting to move for the ball and then noticing that it was landing squarely in the zone Maguire should have been controlling so De Gea let Maguire take it - which is the right thing to do, no need for our own goalkeeper clashing with a CB in the zone the CB should be controlling.
 

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AWB got physically bullied. No one else really at fault against City. Sometimes the easiest explanation is the right one.
 

Teja

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AWB got physically bullied. No one else really at fault against City. Sometimes the easiest explanation is the right one.
Even taller / stronger players wouldn't have fared much better in that situation IMO. Otamendi has had too much of a run up going against a guy who's at standstill. We're just back to the old Zonal vs man marking debate again.
 

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The ball was headed on the five yard line. De Gea should be claiming that with a blindfold, really.

We do look vulnerable from set pieces in general, though. Our set up looks very zonal and I don’t like it at all.
Agree. If we are zonal marking, then I think it's a mistake, but De Gea should certainly have come for that. He may have got a bump, but he's a pro. Need to be ready for a aerial assault on Sunday, as big Dunc's got Everton firing, and attacking everything (including defenders).