Confirmation of CB

stevoc

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Why is the caf obsessed with these ‘one or the other’ scenarios?

We need a CB, DM, RW and CF. They all have to be priority if we are serious about challenging for the big trophies.
Pretty much the only one of those we can and probably will leave for another year is a Striker.

Signing a top RW balances the side as we currently have none and would allow Greenwood to rotate with Cavani and Martial up front.

Signing a top DM could let us play 433 with Pogba and Fernandes in front of them which puts a stop to the nonsense of playing Pogba on the left wing forcing Rashford to the right.

Signing a top CB with pace allows us to A, hopefully defend better with a higher line and B, not have to play Bailly as much which is arguably as much of a positive.

Had we signed 3 top players for those positions last year I genuinely think we would have won the league or went very close this season. So I'm hoping we blow most the transfer budget on a winger, use all money generated from sales on a DM and I don't know hope to find an uncut gem of a CB somewhere for relatively cheap.

------------------------------De Gea/Henderson

AWB-----New CB/Lindelof----Maguire/Bailly-----Shaw/Telles

-------------------------New DM/Mctominay

---Fernandes/VDB--------------------------------Pogba/Fred

New RW/Diallo--Greenwood/Cavanni--Rashford/Martial
 

arthurka

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As Roy Keane said yesterday we need three or four players. Not one. A CB alone won't be enough.
I agree.
We need a CB, RW (have been missing that since 2013), DM and a CF. We have couple of players we could move on like Martial, Lingard, Dalot, Jones, Mata, Matic. That would leave space for wages and some money towards the players needed. We should also sell one of the 3 CB we have for the fill Alex, Bailly or Lindelöf. I would personally sell Bailly he is absolutely terrible at this defending thing.
 

Withnail

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It’s easy for him to state who he perceives the club as needing. But we still need to sell to buy, we can’t replace players who are on contracts at the club.

I think after getting shot of Smalling & Rojo we have room for another central defender. Shame Jones wasn’t released and not given his last contract, as he’s been broken all season so far.

Ole will need to get shot of Matic, Mata, Jesse, possibly James. I can’t see anyone offering good money and contract for Martial, so him and Cavini will be our strikers next season.

I’d say 3 quality players and we’re in a much stronger position, but the logistics of that would be mind blowing. Easy to say but in practice going be difficult

Seeing as we only have two experienced CBs that can be relied upon to be fit, we definitely have room for at least one if not two.

Another CB, CM and RW will solve a lot of the problems. I'm not convinced that all three can be done in one window though. Chelsea/City have shown it can be done but I would shocked if we managed it based on our track record.
 

Tallis

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We definitely need 3 new first team players to compete and retain No 2 next year.

Chelsea will have a better season next year for sure. I generally think Liverpool have several squad issues now rather than just CB but they will also be better next year
 

golden_blunder

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I understand what you mean by this post but if you analyse that game there were issues all over defence and midfield... and probably a loss of edge in attitude too. One game is never enough evidence for a strategic decision.

That doesn't mean the point is wrong, however. Lindelof, Bailly, Tuanzebe and Jones all look short of the standard we need if you analyze their performances over the whole time at United. I do think we should be in the market. Lindelof is close in many ways but his lack of strength on the ball remains a major issue for us.
That’s meant to be his strength Sinch! I just don’t see it with him. His lack of composure when pressed is shocking, he turns tail and passes it back or sideways
 

Ali Dia

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We got spanked by a team that had Williams and Phillips at CB.

A CB would be nice to have but it's our ball retention, overall control, ability to withstand pressing what really needs to improve. So I'd still like an RW who is not a direct forward but a 'passer' and of course central midfielders before a CB.
Exactly. When we create nothing- that’s the problem. A cb or dm aren't going to magically fix our creativity issues. Ironically enough past week we were posting in a thread about rotation and I said what if maguire gets injured and he’s never been rotated. We are going to be in big trouble as the other players have no form or chemistry together… the likes of Tuanzebe have barely even played. If they aren’t going to play at all cut them for players that will
 

bosnian_red

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It's a matter of who is available. Sancho is the perfect player and profile of player to go for and finally sort out the right wing. Who is like that for CB? Kounde who would be entirely useless in the air which is a pretty big deal in the prem? There's a bunch of ok at best options for us to target at CB, same with the midfield 2. That's part of the reason why Sancho should be the clear #1. It's a position of need, but also the perfect available player who can be world class (and arguably has been world class for a few years). That player isn't available for CB, certainly not after Bayern signed Upamecano.
 

FrankDrebin

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Who we need to move on is just as a fundamental question as it is on who's coming in.

We have players in the squad who've offered us little this season and ones who can still bring in good fees.

If we want to progress its time to be less sentimental.

Unpopular opinion here but If we can get good offers for the likes of Axel, McTom, Beek, Williams, Martial, James, (and that's not mentioning the obvious ones like Matic, Mata, Jones etc) then we should seriously consider them.
 

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It's a matter of who is available. Sancho is the perfect player and profile of player to go for and finally sort out the right wing. Who is like that for CB? Kounde who would be entirely useless in the air which is a pretty big deal in the prem? There's a bunch of ok at best options for us to target at CB, same with the midfield 2. That's part of the reason why Sancho should be the clear #1. It's a position of need, but also the perfect available player who can be world class (and arguably has been world class for a few years). That player isn't available for CB, certainly not after Bayern signed Upamecano.
Yes, this is another very good point. There doesn't seem to be an outstanding CB or CM available. Varane, if the rumours are to be believed, seems to be the best bet for CB and I can't even think of anyone for CM.
 

Kostov

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Why is the caf obsessed with these ‘one or the other’ scenarios?

We need a CB, DM, RW and CF. They all have to be priority if we are serious about challenging for the big trophies.
This.

City have been doing this thing for years, they don't go and solve one problem a year that's why they are where they are. The time it takes for us to solve one problem it usually opens another and we are at square one. At the time we probably find appropriate partner for Maguire, and a top CDM, he will probably be 34 and past his prime.
 

bosnian_red

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Yes, this is another very good point. There doesn't seem to be an outstanding CB or CM available. Varane, if the rumours are to be believed, seems to be the best bet for CB and I can't even think of anyone for CM.
Yeah there's nobody really in midfield "available". It's a position where we'll have to bully some clubs to get what we need. Someone like Nico Barella would probably be perfect as a partner to someone like Rice, but both would cost huge sums and neither are really available. But with enough force they'd be doable. Sometimes you just have to do it to sort it out. And without our midfield being set, we won't ever really make that last step up.
 

Gandalf

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When you have money to spend you need to think seriously about the value of what you are spending it on and in this case we cannot afford to obsess over one position versus another as we are not 1 player away. The money has to go to best player available and for me right now that is Sancho, a generational talent with at least 10 years of top class football ahead of him. If you can find a CB who is as dominant in his role as Sancho is on the RW then that is fine but the names being bandied about are all gambles to a greater or lesser degree. I would love to think we could come out of this next window with a RB, CB, CDM and RW but reality tells me that won't happen and so if it is just going to be one or two positions filled can we please spend the money on the sure thing so we are not back here in 12 months time looking to upgrade the player we just bought.
 

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Unpopular opinion here but If we can get good offers for the likes of Axel, McTom, Beek, Williams, Martial, James, (and that's not mentioning the obvious ones like Matic, Mata, Jones etc) then we should seriously consider them.
Apart from McTom I'd happily sell the others.
 

12OunceEpilogue

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Really?? Your knowledge of football must be somewhat limited if you don't think CB No1 priority.
Put me down for a crash football knowledge course too. I'd like a quality CM and a RW before a CB, though I concede it looks grim if Maguire gets injured. I think a stronger CM who can help us dictate tempo of games and provide quality defensive cover for the back four will improve us as a team more than better personnel at the back, and a RW will give us the improved natural balance we've been crying out for for years.
 

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I see it this way. We need a DM CB and RW sorted this window. We can't postpone this. The problem is we may not have the budget to spend on the required upgrades in these positions. We'd end up signing at best 2 upgrades and one cheap punt. DM and CB has to be those upgrades because Greenwood at RW is better than Lindelof at CB and Fred/Mctominay at DM
Totally agree with you, problem is that we have the Glazers still at the club. If we get 3 players in a window they will be talents, not the finished article.
 

Crashoutcassius

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dont really agree. we are great with maguire and without him we can usually just outscore teams., yesterday we had one day to prep and it was a dead rubber for us so okay we didn't get any joy in attack, but we basically always do
 

keithsingleton

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Put me down for a crash football knowledge course too. I'd like a quality CM and a RW before a CB, though I concede it looks grim if Maguire gets injured. I think a stronger CM who can help us dictate tempo of games and provide quality defensive cover for the back four will improve us as a team more than better personnel at the back, and a RW will give us the improved natural balance we've been crying out for for years.
You don't need one. That's a fair assessment
 

golden_blunder

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Put me down for a crash football knowledge course too. I'd like a quality CM and a RW before a CB, though I concede it looks grim if Maguire gets injured. I think a stronger CM who can help us dictate tempo of games and provide quality defensive cover for the back four will improve us as a team more than better personnel at the back, and a RW will give us the improved natural balance we've been crying out for for years.
The fact it looks grim when Maguire gets there is absolutely the reason why we need a cb. His partners aren’t good enough
 

Dominos

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Why is the caf obsessed with these ‘one or the other’ scenarios?

We need a CB, DM, RW and CF. They all have to be priority if we are serious about challenging for the big trophies.
The reason we have to prioritise is

1. Every half decent player costs us £50m or more these days
2. We're not realistically going to have a net spend of £200+m and that's what it would take to "complete" the squad
3. Covid has hit our finances
4. We're unlikely to raise much funds in sales

To give you an idea of why it's not realistic

Sancho £80m
Haaland £80m
Varane £40m
Rice £60m

And these are understated hypothetical prices, likely they'd all cost more than that. But in this example it would cost us £260m and we'll make a small fraction of that in sales. To fix all weak positions in 1 summer we'd first need to learn how to negotiate, and secondly we'd have to go for non-obvious targets who we could get on the cheap and hope they turn out quality.
 

A-man

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The pair Maguire-Lindelof is not a problem, they have been one of the most solid CB pairs in the league this season with less than 1 goal conceded per game. The problem is when one of them is missing, then we get Spurs 1-6, or Liverpool 2-4. I doubt United will buy another 80 million CB, but it looks necessary to replace Bailly which will be less expensive.

We will never be able to improve our build up game with McFred losing possession so often and in dangerous areas. We need a CB but back up is enough, and we need a midfielder that can go straight in to the starting XI.
 

Dirty Schwein

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Why is the caf obsessed with these ‘one or the other’ scenarios?

We need a CB, DM, RW and CF. They all have to be priority if we are serious about challenging for the big trophies.
Yes.

Varane, Rice, Sancho and a striker (not sure who).

We'll hopefully at least try full these positions.
 

golden_blunder

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The pair Maguire-Lindelof is not a problem, they have been one of the most solid CB pairs in the league this season with less than 1 goal conceded per game. The problem is when one of them is missing, then we get Spurs 1-6, or Liverpool 2-4. I doubt United will buy another 80 million CB, but it looks necessary to replace Bailly which will be less expensive.

We will never be able to improve our build up game with McFred losing possession so often and in dangerous areas. We need a CB but back up is enough, and we need a midfielder that can go straight in to the starting XI.
I think you’re wrong because Lindelof as the senior cb needs to be taking charge when maguire is out. He needs to prove he deserves to be there without Maguire looking after him
 

ForeverRed1

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Sell martial and lingard, go all out for grealish. Sell Fred and matic - buy rice. Sell mata, James, buy sancho and buy a top cb, keep pogba -compete on high level.

sancho, grealish,rashford, Greenwood, Bruno, Cavani, amad across our attack is incredible. so many goals in that whatever line up/formation you play.
 

12OunceEpilogue

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You don't need one. That's a fair assessment
Nice one. I agree fully that those saying there's no issue at CB can't be watching our matches and obviously mustn't have seen the game the other day!

The fact it looks grim when Maguire gets there is absolutely the reason why we need a cb. His partners aren’t good enough
But it can look very grim now when our first choice midfield is playing, so I'd judge a technically-sound defensive mid to be needed ahead of a CB. In my reckoning the style of football we play can be improved quicker and more effectively with more stability in midfield than it could with a new partner for Maguire; I honestly think Rio and Vidic would be badly exposed by McFred when their limits on the ball are shown up, never mind when they crumble under a press like they did the other day.

The RW thing has been a long itch I'm just dying to scratch, but with a more reasoned set of eyes I'd agree Greenwood has answered the call well enough that CB could be argued to be a more urgent priority. For me though this summer if we get a quality CB and no new midfielder that would set alarms blaring.
 

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Glazers needs to money where their mouth is. Fund a war chest of 200 million, fans will forget about breakaway league. We could get 3 top tier talent all together on CB, DM and RW. Sadly it won't happen. Our owners are leeches looking at how to suck more money out of the team. I don't think we will ever win another league title unless miraculously we had a class of 92.
 

golden_blunder

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Nice one. I agree fully that those saying there's no issue at CB can't be watching our matches and obviously mustn't have seen the game the other day!



But it can look very grim now when our first choice midfield is playing, so I'd judge a technically-sound defensive mid to be needed ahead of a CB. In my reckoning the style of football we play can be improved quicker and more effectively with more stability in midfield than it could with a new partner for Maguire; I honestly think Rio and Vidic would be badly exposed by McFred when their limits on the ball are shown up, never mind when they crumble under a press like they did the other day.

The RW thing has been a long itch I'm just dying to scratch, but with a more reasoned set of eyes I'd agree Greenwood has answered the call well enough that CB could be argued to be a more urgent priority. For me though this summer if we get a quality CB and no new midfielder that would set alarms blaring.
No you’re right, I think cb and dm are more urgent
 

Rooney1987

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I think a CM is more of a priority than a CB tbh.
Agreed. If we could only buy 1 player it would have to be DCM. The amount times Mcfred lose the ball in the front of the back leads to so many goals (3 in the last 4 games). Everyone can see it when we play the opposition find it so easy to slice through our CMs.

What concerns me is outside of Rice we haven't been linked to any. It's all CBs, RBs and ST. Which isn't a great sign, we all know the club gets a list of players for each position in need and the odd one gets leaked because of agents. It's how David Brooks was linked.
 

A-man

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I think you’re wrong because Lindelof as the senior cb needs to be taking charge when maguire is out. He needs to prove he deserves to be there without Maguire looking after him
I think he’s been doing that in the matches where Maguire’s been out, except Liverpool but that was a game where most players underperformed, as expected when top-4 is accomplished. Granada as example, he took charge of the defence. We’ve also got good results in those matches with Lindelof without Maguire, except Liverpool:
PSG 2-1win
Brighton 3-0 win
Real Sociedad 0-0
Granada 2-0 win
 

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Nice one. I agree fully that those saying there's no issue at CB can't be watching our matches and obviously mustn't have seen the game the other day!
I just don't think we can win the league with any of our options at CB at the moment. Think we all know Maguire not going anywhere soon so unless he gets a replacement for the others remaining we will always be looking above our heads and seeing one or two teams above us.

You only have to look at the CBs we had under Sir Alex, he nearly always had world class players in that position. Many will disagree wth what I'm about to say, but for me the most important postion to have in a title winning side (( IMHO )) starts with two solid CBs
 

amolbhatia50k

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I think you’re wrong because Lindelof as the senior cb needs to be taking charge when maguire is out. He needs to prove he deserves to be there without Maguire looking after him
Lindelof will never be more than a top 4 challenger type CB. Someone who can't attack the ball and only makes it through games nervously by standing off, doesn't win you big titles. Like our midfield duo, he's just someone we are getting by with. Ole has to be able to see this.
 

keithsingleton

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Lindelof will never be more than a top 4 challenger type CB. Someone who can't attack the ball and only makes it through games nervously by standing off, doesn't win you big titles. Like our midfield duo, he's just someone we are getting by with. Ole has to be able to see this.
Spot on, Lindelop a bench warmer at best and doesn't make the first 11.
 

giggs-beckham

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A lot of our player deficiencies would be a lot of the times negated if we had a team wide pressing game.
 

golden_blunder

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Lindelof will never be more than a top 4 challenger type CB. Someone who can't attack the ball and only makes it through games nervously by standing off, doesn't win you big titles. Like our midfield duo, he's just someone we are getting by with. Ole has to be able to see
I hope so. I’m fed up hearing excuses for averageness
 

TwoSheds

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Camavinga or maybe Renato Sanches for DM, Botman (is he any good?) or maybe Tarkowski at CB and that would already be a good window. If you can get a world class attacker in as well like Haaland, Mbappé, Sancho, Grealish etc then it's suddenly a great window.
 

Fahad Jawaid

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We need three players (RW, CM and CB) in order to properly compete for the League and Champions League. The key is to find players who are far better than what we have currently. For eg Sancho for RW and somebody like a Rice in center midfield and Kounde at CB.

Sancho will allow us to have a Winger who can actually take on players from a standing position and make good choices in and around the box, this is where currently Greenwood and Rashford lacks as they have the tendency to shoot more often than not after making half a yard, whereas choosing others is a better choice.

Rice because we clearly need to move on from Mcfred, we need to evolve towards 4-3-3 and It will require Pogba and Bruno to become part of a three with Rice, similar to what Madrid (Casemero, Kroos and Modric), Barca (Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta) or City (Fernandinho, KDB and Silva) used to play with one destroyer, one conductor, last risk taker. Rice will act as a destroyer, Pogba the conductor and Bruno the one with final passes and risk taker. However, I think this will only work if we press as a team rather than as individuals.

Kounde because firstly he is strong which is needed in EPL, along with fast and good on the ball (features which are lacked by Lindelof). I think coupled with Maguire he will be a good Partnership and allow us to play 20 yards ahead (will help us make the pitch narrow and press as a team) with the recovery pace of Kounde.

The real issue is whether we can sign these players in a single summer or we will dwell and sign one and then maybe sign somebody just for stop gap solution, we already have plenty of average players, we need real quality and these three additions will go a long way for us to compete, otherwise we can compete for top 4 again next year.
 

amolbhatia50k

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I hope so. I’m fed up hearing excuses for averageness
Think till take another summer or two GB. I fear were stuck with that core for a bit. On this I think Ole needs to start making some smart signings. Nobody is giving the manager 200 million to sort these positions out. Cheap punts need to start working out. Not like VDB.
 

cyril C

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I think he’s been doing that in the matches where Maguire’s been out, except Liverpool but that was a game where most players underperformed, as expected when top-4 is accomplished. Granada as example, he took charge of the defence. We’ve also got good results in those matches with Lindelof without Maguire, except Liverpool:
PSG 2-1win
Brighton 3-0 win
Real Sociedad 0-0
Granada 2-0 win
Kind of thinking you are giving all the wrong examples. Win PSG - we played 3 CB. Brighton, RS and Granda, are not exactly top teams, aren't they?
 

Teja

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A lot of our player deficiencies would be a lot of the times negated if we had a team wide pressing game.
Sort of agree with this but I don't think the issue is Ole / the coaching staff not knowing how presses are implemented. Any full time video analyst can watch a few video tapes and compose a formulaic set of instructions on what to do for each player at each position in the pitch.

The press is a double edged sword. Just by committing 6-7 players high up in the opposing half along with CBs playing a very high line leaves you extremely vulnerable if your press is broken. Stats show that once a press is beaten it generally results in a fairly decent goal scoring opportunity for the opposition. The best showcase of that is some of our games against City (3-1 last year?) where Martial and Rashford ran riot. It was half chance after half chance the first half of that game.

If we had a CB that's strong / pacy and can mop up counter attacks I think we'd be more likely to commit higher up the pitch. Of course it's easier said than done. Defenders, even under normal circumstances, are hard to evaluate. Unless someone's playing in this exact function for a different team, it's hard to tell how the transfer's going to work out. City for all their scouting and analytics had to spend 300m before finding a combination that worked for them.

I suspect we won't quite be done with the CB saga even if we sign a new player this year. Cue the complains about the club, board, cluelessness etc. etc.