Controversial - chasing "The United Way" is holding us back as a club.

el3mel

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So the Busby babes, Docherty's revolution, the class of 92, all built on youth and pace, count for nothing? By all means support Barca if you want, but we have our history too, and ancestor worship is an inbuilt human condition, you won't change that.
Who said that? Before spouting nonsense like "go support other team" understand the point first. Playing youth and attacking football is nothing exclusive for United away from all other clubs in the world to keep using this phrase to criticize any upcoming manager who dare to not do both. It's something plenty of clubs do without labeling it their "way". It's a fine phrase but it shouldn't be overused everytime we are in crisis. We are starting to make it a cliche.
 

KetilOwren88

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Of course the United way exists! It’s basicly what we’re all missing at the moment: attacking and fearless football. Traditionaly this has been done by world class wing play and counter attacks with pace, but it’s not that important really. Style of football changes and entertainment is the key. I also mensioned beeing fearless because attitude and the right spirit also play a big part of the United way. It’s not only about winning, but winning while entertaining the crowd. It’s not very original, but still the mantra of this great club. Playing kids are always important, but the most important thing is great and special players that you don’t see in any other club, like Cantona, Best, Ronaldo, Scholes etc. We are in desperate need for one or two of these kind of players..
 
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OverratedOpinion

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I don't think it is so much what we are doing.

"The United way" would be things like promoting/trusting youth, playing attacking football, sticking with a manager, finding cheap talent at the perfect stage of their career etc.

There is nothing wrong with the above, we are just not doing it well. The idea becomes irrelevant when the execution is this poor.
 

manunited1919

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I am well aware that I might take a ton of flack for this, but I have been thinking it for a while and what can I lose by sharing it? Its not like things can be worse for the club right now so here goes...

I think as a club and as a fan base we have lost sight of what it means to compete at the highest level against the best teams in modern football, because we have become obsessed with "The United way". What is the United way exactly? Pacy, relentlessly attacking football? Bringing youth through? Beyond that, what is it? I am pretty certain that every football club on the planet wants to play exciting football, win every game and give local lads a platform. No? Is it really truly unique to Manchester United?

LVG's and Jose's pragmatism in games was met with genuine disdain from us fans, and a lot of us believed for some reason that these managers were "going against the united way" intentionally?? In reality, these managers were grinding out results with the resources (players) they had available, in the way they saw possible. I am damn sure neither had any interest in getting on the wrong side of the fan base. I think we severely misread the situation, and hugely underappreciated both at the time, in hindsight of course.

We are putting too much pressure on ourselves as a club, and far too much pressure on the players to PLAY A CERTAIN WAY, and our performances are constantly judged against this expectation that we ourselves have set. We have set a bar, and when the players inevitably don't meet our expectations it's doom and gloom, and "we have fallen so far from grace" and "united are not the same as they were" cries grow ever louder.

Our appetite to play this "way" has resulted in us hiring a worryingly unproven manager at the biggest club on the earth, to appease the fans demands of this "United way", failing to foresee the pitfalls. What did we expect from Solskjaer, really? I will be honest, the kid in me saw him winning everything in sight and this all being a big romantic roller coaster and us all telling the scousers and the noisy neighbours to stuff it, but this is the real world.

We NEED to drop this immediate expectation of a certain playing style whilst the club finds its feet. Once we have the bones of a decent squad, then we can progress and start playing with more freedom. Until then, if we keep on demanding it (in my opinion demanding the near impossible) with these players we have and the board we have, then we are going to be forever disappointed, and we will never stop sacking managers.

First, we need to focus on how to be hard to beat. Second we need to learn how to grind out results. Then we use the confidence from our progression as a springboard to go out and be more expressive on the ball. We are nowhere near that, a long way off. Years.

If we keep "The United way" as a requirement for incoming managers, we limit ourselves and hold ourselves back, and we get left behind.

The club needs serious, serious work before we even think about our playing style.
When SAF would string together a few 1-0 wins and at the end of the season win the title, nobody questioned whether or not it was the United way. “It’s the mark of champions to win ugly” etc would get thrown around. The United way is to win. Period.
 

711

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Who said that? Before spouting nonsense like "go support other team" understand the point first. Playing youth and attacking football is nothing exclusive for United away from all other clubs in the world to keep using this phrase to criticize any upcoming manager who dare to not do both. It's something plenty of clubs do without labeling it their "way". It's a fine phrase but it shouldn't be overused everytime we are in crisis. We are starting to make it a cliche.
Well said. The thing is though that football is tribal, league football started in England with clubs only a few miles apart, and in truth not much different to each other, but differences had to be found even if they weren't in all honesty there, because that's what tribes do, give themselves different tattoos and different flags. So it continues. Don't take it personal, it's only opinions.
When SAF would string together a few 1-0 wins and at the end of the season win the title, nobody questioned whether or not it was the United way. “It’s the mark of champions to win ugly” etc would get thrown around. The United way is to win. Period.
Yes we did. Check out the old zombie football thread, many of us were unhappy even though we were winning.
 

el3mel

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Well said. The thing is though that football is tribal, league football started in England with clubs only a few miles apart, and in truth not much different to each other, but differences had to be found even if they weren't in all honesty there, because that's what tribes do, give themselves different tattoos and different flags. So it continues. Don't take it personal, it's only opinions.
No problem. Nothing personal at all. :)
 

VeevaVee

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Really fed up of hearing this term now. We just want to enjoy watching good quick football. That with some homegrown talent is the United way, but we don't need to keep referring to it as such. We should be aiming for that regardless.
 

adexkola

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Just you said it exists so am interested to see what you think it is. Usually posters just peddle the whole 'youth, attacking football, flying wingers' buzzwords but intrigued because I think it's just become a buzzword of it's own and our fans have latched onto it.
There is a gap between the buzzwords thrown around, and the assumption that one of Britain's most successful and followed clubs does not have some sort of ethos.

People in this thread shit on the idea of bringing through youth but it's been an indelible part of our identity for the better. Ditto for attacking football. Every top club wins, that's not enough to establish an ethos or philosophy. United still had a brand in between Busby and Ferguson, an era of our history many people brush over like it's irrelevant.

If you go on the investor page of the club, littered through the prospectus are mentions to our legacy not only as a winning side.

Finally (because this thread is a circlejerk), every top business has a brand, or "way" if you will. Common folk may dismiss such terms as nonsense but ask senior folk and they will tell you the key importance of establishing a unique identity that drives strategic planning. It impacts your bottom line in a way that just making money or just winning trophies doesn't.

Is it holding us back? I don't see how it is. Incompetent leadership driven by a lack of vision is holding us back. We've hired 1 manager who couldn't have been more anti-United way and that got us nowhere. Is it possible to win and be successful otherwise? Of course. But that's not enough to make the term "United Way" a scapegoat.
 

fallengt

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The United way was how Ole got the job.
His time here likely going to be a waste of time
 

Tel074

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I am well aware that I might take a ton of flack for this, but I have been thinking it for a while and what can I lose by sharing it? Its not like things can be worse for the club right now so here goes...

I think as a club and as a fan base we have lost sight of what it means to compete at the highest level against the best teams in modern football, because we have become obsessed with "The United way". What is the United way exactly? Pacy, relentlessly attacking football? Bringing youth through? Beyond that, what is it? I am pretty certain that every football club on the planet wants to play exciting football, win every game and give local lads a platform. No? Is it really truly unique to Manchester United?

LVG's and Jose's pragmatism in games was met with genuine disdain from us fans, and a lot of us believed for some reason that these managers were "going against the united way" intentionally?? In reality, these managers were grinding out results with the resources (players) they had available, in the way they saw possible. I am damn sure neither had any interest in getting on the wrong side of the fan base. I think we severely misread the situation, and hugely underappreciated both at the time, in hindsight of course.

We are putting too much pressure on ourselves as a club, and far too much pressure on the players to PLAY A CERTAIN WAY, and our performances are constantly judged against this expectation that we ourselves have set. We have set a bar, and when the players inevitably don't meet our expectations it's doom and gloom, and "we have fallen so far from grace" and "united are not the same as they were" cries grow ever louder.

Our appetite to play this "way" has resulted in us hiring a worryingly unproven manager at the biggest club on the earth, to appease the fans demands of this "United way", failing to foresee the pitfalls. What did we expect from Solskjaer, really? I will be honest, the kid in me saw him winning everything in sight and this all being a big romantic roller coaster and us all telling the scousers and the noisy neighbours to stuff it, but this is the real world.

We NEED to drop this immediate expectation of a certain playing style whilst the club finds its feet. Once we have the bones of a decent squad, then we can progress and start playing with more freedom. Until then, if we keep on demanding it (in my opinion demanding the near impossible) with these players we have and the board we have, then we are going to be forever disappointed, and we will never stop sacking managers.

First, we need to focus on how to be hard to beat. Second we need to learn how to grind out results. Then we use the confidence from our progression as a springboard to go out and be more expressive on the ball. We are nowhere near that, a long way off. Years.

If we keep "The United way" as a requirement for incoming managers, we limit ourselves and hold ourselves back, and we get left behind.

The club needs serious, serious work before we even think about our playing style.
Good post ...

Honestly I don't even think it's the United way that bothered most people under LVG and Jose. I think at times that's just catchphrase people use but what I think they mean is not related to a certain actual style but more so to be entertained.. I've never in my life been as bored watching football than I was under LVG and honestly the past few weeks have been somewhat at that same level of boredom .
 

momo83

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The United teams from the 90s to mid 00s to late 00s to 2011/2012 played completely different styles of football... only constant was the manager.

Attractive and attacking football is probably the only mandate. It’s not really like Barca or Ajax where there’s a specific philosophy of playing that managers can’t deviate too far away.
 

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Exciting attacking football with good players and winning trophies is going to hold us back guys.
 

Tarrou

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We were quite pragmatic in style for Fergie's last winning side.

I don't think anyone cares that much if we're winning. We haven't been winning though, unless you count the mickey mouse cups under Jose.

Nothing Ed does in his decision making suggests he's making decisions based on "the United way" at all, so personally I don't think it's having any meaningful impact on our success of lack of it.
 

He'sRaldo

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If tradition doesn't matter then why do we mock teams like City and PSG for either not having or abandoning theirs?
 

forevrared

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We abandoned the United Way to hire Mourinho and sign a bunch of aging mercenaries. Didn't work.

The problem is 100% the Glazers and their lackey Woodward.
 

Escobar

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The United way we incorporated in the last year is a different one then it was 15 years or so ago.
And btw, it is not that we are the only club who like to nurture talent and have a strong culture at the club. We pretend we are so special because of that
 

adexkola

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The United way we incorporated in the last year is a different one then it was 15 years or so ago.
And btw, it is not that we are the only club who like to nurture talent and have a strong culture at the club. We pretend we are so special because of that
Why wouldn't the club view itself as special or unique? How the feck else would it attempt to distinguish itself from the competition?
 

Sky1981

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United way is nothing if you dont win

What makes us special is doing all that, while winning trophies.

Southampton plays attacking and develops youth, do they call it southampton ways? Does people love it? Who cares.

Win first, beauty later.
 

roonster09

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There is a gap between the buzzwords thrown around, and the assumption that one of Britain's most successful and followed clubs does not have some sort of ethos.

People in this thread shit on the idea of bringing through youth but it's been an indelible part of our identity for the better. Ditto for attacking football. Every top club wins, that's not enough to establish an ethos or philosophy. United still had a brand in between Busby and Ferguson, an era of our history many people brush over like it's irrelevant.

If you go on the investor page of the club, littered through the prospectus are mentions to our legacy not only as a winning side.

Finally (because this thread is a circlejerk), every top business has a brand, or "way" if you will. Common folk may dismiss such terms as nonsense but ask senior folk and they will tell you the key importance of establishing a unique identity that drives strategic planning. It impacts your bottom line in a way that just making money or just winning trophies doesn't.

Is it holding us back? I don't see how it is. Incompetent leadership driven by a lack of vision is holding us back. We've hired 1 manager who couldn't have been more anti-United way and that got us nowhere. Is it possible to win and be successful otherwise? Of course. But that's not enough to make the term "United Way" a scapegoat.
Good post. Fans have blamed players, coaches, backroom staff, owners, SAF and now 'United way'.

To answer to the OP, no United way is not holding us back. Being incompetent in the transfer market, hiring poor mangers is holding us back
 

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We seem to have regressed to a narrow view of what this club ‘was’ all about in recent seasons.

Under Fergie it was always about innovation and getting in the best. Notice we’ve never won many champions leagues purely because we actually didn’t spend enough! That’s just a pure fact in football. Speculate to accumumulate. Real Madrid are the masters at that, ripping up the textbook every few years.

The culture we had and our best in the world attitude is dead. Big ask to regain that considering our owners and debt.

We need giant investment in the stadium, training, youth and first team. It’s just not possible at this point so the United way is an idea to comfort us I guess.
 

LoneStar

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The united way was always about winning and scoring goals. Sir alex was a winner and so was Busby. That's what United way will and should always be.
Yup this. Playing attractive football without the winning is the Arsenal way.

United became the best team in the league by winning, having great character and determination to win. After all we are most famous for our late goals and comebacks.

We need to get back to winning ways. Fair enough that people want attractive football, but that is not what United is about.
 

Sky1981

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Let's see.... The United way has

1. Gotten Moyes the job, no way he'd get the job if not for the United Way
2. Gotten LVG sacked, because apparently his Possession and technical football isn't swashbuckling enough for United
3. Gotten Jose sacked albeit actually winning stuff and doing well in the league, again because he's deemed anti United way or whatever that was
4. Gotten Ole the job, and keeping Ole on the job, because again... United way

=
 

roonster09

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Let's see.... The United way has

1. Gotten Moyes the job, no way he'd get the job if not for the United Way
2. Gotten LVG sacked, because apparently his Possession and technical football isn't swashbuckling enough for United
3. Gotten Jose sacked albeit actually winning stuff and doing well in the league, again because he's deemed anti United way or whatever that was
4. Gotten Ole the job, and keeping Ole on the job, because again... United way

=
Yeah, it's the United way that has resulted in this, not the incompetent board who hired wrong managers.
 

roonster09

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Yeah, because they listened to Fergie and hired Moyes
Which means United way lead to his mess. Nice logic.

Going by that, United way also made ManUtd biggest club in UK and one of the best in the world. 1 shit appointment means nothing.
 

roonster09

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Right. Keep Ole, Give him 3 years at all cost, let's see how far the United ways brings us
Clutching straws now. Hiring Ole, Moyes, Van Gaal, Jose or even SAF is not United way. It's the football culture. The way football should be played and how young players from academy are promoted. Obviously most clubs do that and they have their own slogans.
 

UpWithRivers

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There is no Utd way. No one used this term when Sir Alex was here. No one said when he got the job...hey you better do it the Utd way. And it certainly wasn't used prior to that.
Even if there was this famed Utd Way that people keep going on about and it's youth, fast attacking football blah blah blah. Do you base the next 10, 50, 100 years on this? Or do you move with the times. Adapt, revolutionize. If anything can be learnt from the glory days it's winning. Sir Alex above a was a winner. At all costs.
When we get a manager we should say. You have to play the Utd Way. What's that? Winning.
With winning you get all the other things we want. Goals, able to introduce youngsters in a productive way not just throwing them in, flair, arrogance, entertainment etc. All come from winning first.
 

Foxbatt

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The only United way is never giving it up until the final whistle is blown. How many times have we stolen a match under Fergie? Lots.
All this bs about youth and United way is a myth. When we have players who come from the academy who are good enough then they get into the side. If they are not good enough they shouldn't.
It's a one off in British football history about the class of 92.
But as Gary Neville said it's a myth that they played regularly. He also said that the backbone of the team were already world class players with a lot of experience. The weight of saving United were never on their shoulders when they started. Now it's different. You can't expect the younger players to take such enormous responsibility on their shoulders when they start their careers.
 

red thru&thru

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This myth of 'Manchester United way' just needs to die. This United way essentially went when the Glazer's came and CR7 left. Currently we are playing the 'Glazer's way'.
 

roonster09

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The only United way is never giving it up until the final whistle is blown. How many times have we stolen a match under Fergie? Lots.
All this bs about youth and United way is a myth. When we have players who come from the academy who are good enough then they get into the side. If they are not good enough they shouldn't.
It's a one off in British football history about the class of 92.
But as Gary Neville said it's a myth that they played regularly. He also said that the backbone of the team were already world class players with a lot of experience. The weight of saving United were never on their shoulders when they started. Now it's different. You can't expect the younger players to take such enormous responsibility on their shoulders when they start their careers.
IIRC @Mr. MUJAC posted 50% of first team players who played for ManUtd were from academy. How is promoting young players a myth when we have close to 4000 games with at least 1 academy player in the playing squad and till 2011 it was at least 1 academy player in starting 11.
 

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The united way was always about winning and scoring goals. Sir alex was a winner and so was Busby. That's what United way will and should always be.
And that could be used to describe any team. It's nonsense.
 

roonster09

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Ok. So Ole is united way? I'm confused to what is your point?
Hiring managers is not any way. It's winning by playing attacking/good football, promoting young players that's the United way, which anyways died when SAF retired. Before some smart arse point out few pragmatic matches under SAF, it's his overall playing style.
 

Sky1981

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Hiring managers is not any way. It's winning by playing attacking/good football, promoting young players that's the United way, which anyways died when SAF retired. Before some smart arse point out few pragmatic matches under SAF, it's his overall playing style.
So, we gonna keep sacking and hiring until we find another SAF?


good. let's sack Ole, because he clearly fails to instill United way, like every other manager before him judged, he too should be sacked
 

Sil

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SAF was fairly pragmatic in away games during his last seasons as a manager.

The two rootcauses that holds us back as a club are:

1. Our core business as a football club is $$$ and not football.

2. We have a board and upper structure full of people either incompetent or lacking any understanding of football or with the viewpoint that one cannot perform on the pitch while being financial productive.

Glazers and/or Woodward are responsible for these problems having occured over a number of years. Short term it is fair to put some blame on the 4 different managers shortcomings and our players. One will never fix the short term problems without fixing the long term problems i.e. Glazers/Woodward.
SAF was fairly pragmatic in away games during his last seasons as a manager.

The two rootcauses that holds us back as a club are:
1. Our core business as a footballclub is $$$ and not football.
2. We have a board and upper structure full of people either incompetent or lacking any understanding of football or with the viewpoint that one cannot perform on the pitch while being financial productive.

Glazers and/or Woodward are responsible for these problems having occured over a number of years. Short term it is fair to put some blame on the 4 different managers shortcomings and our players. One will never fix the short term problems without fixing the long term problems i.e. Glazers/Woodward.
 
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roonster09

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So, we gonna keep sacking and hiring until we find another SAF?
Why do we need another SAF? There won't be another SAF and managers won't stay for many years at same club with very few exceptions.

And yes, we have keep sack and hire till we find the right manager, not randomly though. We should be hiring managers who sets up team to play attacking football, not the old dinosaurs or managers who aren't good enough at this level.