Could we have done a worse job and had worse luck in the post SAF era?

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

• What was David Gill doing in helping us to prepare for SAF’s inevitable departure in his final years?
Why wasn’t there a cohesive plan in place when we knew how basically the whole club was built on him at this point?

• Why weren’t we in for players like D.Silva, Ribery and Aguero whilst focusing on value signings that ended up being more costly in the wrong run, with the amount of money that was spent by the club since, were the Glazers prepared to spend the money we’ve always had, out of fear of things getting really nasty after the Moyes debacle?

• Was there a manager that was a worse choice than David Moyes?
I never understood why it was Moyes and not Big Sam for example, they’ve had similar achievements and experience, the difference was that Sam had a better record against the top 4.

• We couldn’t have done a worse job in rebuilding the SAF team, We’ve spent almost as much as City and how the hell is our squad is in such a state?

• Could we have done a worse job even if we tried?
With the amount of poor decisions we’ve made in that time, if weren’t so filthy rich, could it have gotten us relegated by now?

 

[U99ted]

No

 

[Hound Dog]

Between Berbatov and RVP, was there a single signing that excited the fans? Im not talking about the impact of the players, but about the reaction to the signing itself.

Tells you all you need to know about how the club was being run.

After that, money was spent, but somewhat hastly, while the core of the squad was rotten to the core due to years of signing mediocre players.

 

[Sterling Archer]

You're kidding, right?

The Glazers. That's it.

 

[Foxbatt]

Very good article in The Independent about the troubles at United.

 

[Amerifan]

How is another of this type of thread interesting, fun, or worthwhile? Enough!

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

Very good article in The Independent about the troubles at United.

Indeed.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...-woodward-epl-transfer-man-city-a9091531.html

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Indeed.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...-woodward-epl-transfer-man-city-a9091531.html

Stopped reading once it said Woodward clearly wants what’s best for the club.

Woodward wants what’s best for him and his bosses.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Indeed.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...-woodward-epl-transfer-man-city-a9091531.html

I'm always a bit confused about the 'identity' thing. they say united cant come up with an identity like liverpool or city... liverpools identity is 'copy dortmund since we have their manager' and citys is 'copy barcelona from top to bottom'. Are they saying we should find a club to copy tactically and just take their manager

 

[Class of 63]

Yes, and yes

I think a few of our johnny-come-lately fans should do a bit of research about the club they say they support, focusing on 68-74

 

[Sylar]

Didnt Gill announce his departure before Fergie? But I reckon United thought they had a good structure in place where a new manager would come in and just continue with what Fergie did. I mean afterall, we were champions needing only a few signings in the middle. Coaching structure in place who the players there trusted.

Moyes came in and ripped most of that apart. The first thing he did was lower expectations, saying Fergie wouldnt be able to do much with the players (you know, the same players he won the league with a few months earlier). Moyes basically got rid of winning coaches and brought in nobodies (and added Giggs and P.Neville who were basically there to learn and not contribute).

Our first window needed to be a sign of intent. But instead we paid for a player who we could have got for cheaper a week before. (and that whole debacle with Herrera, almost getting that LB from Madrid on loan but then not getting him, and Woodward leaving Australia ) + Moyes name dropping three (Fabregas, Bale, Ronaldo?)

The whole thing has been a mess. We brought in three different types of managers, instead of one to continue the work of the previous (or improve on it).
And the three managers, one wasnt good enough, one came here to fund his retirement (And for some reason we gave an extra year despite him not wanting it), and one who was fired six months earlier (who is known for blowing up after season 2 especially if he doesnt get the players he wants to build a team).
And then just spent like idiots on players without a plan on what system we were going to play.

 

[MrBrightside1989]

Moyes was Scottish like SAF.
I always thought that when Ferguson left was the time to appoint Mourinho. I think he could have been successful at that point. The problems caused by the failed recruitment in Moyes summer window is something we never recovered from. A manager and 'big name' like Mourinho night have attracted big name players and stopped the slump from happening.

I remember us being linked with the likes of fabregas, bale, kroos and Thiago and only getting fellaini...

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

Yes, and yes

I think a few of our johnny-come-lately fans should do a bit of research about the club they say they support, focusing on 68-74

Not remotely the same situation, we weren’t a big or as rich in comparison to 99.9% of other clubs, back then.
Since 2013 we’ve spent it all on hookers, booze and coke.

 

[shamans]

Yes, and yes

I think a few of our johnny-come-lately fans should do a bit of research about the club they say they support, focusing on 68-74

This is such a bad example imo. United post 2013 has had like 50 times the advantage compared to other clubs with money and resources. We have a global fanbase that generates billions.

You can't be content with a massive cooperation making 10 dollars a month just because it made 3 dollars a long time ago when it was a mom and pop shop.

Yeah we will have 1965 level expectations if the club charges 1965 level ticket prices and players earn similar as well. (not really but you get what I'm saying)

 

[Giuliano Maiorana]

Not remotely the same situation, we weren’t a big or as rich in comparison to 99.9% of other clubs, back then.
Since 2013 we’ve spent it all on hookers, booze and coke.

Sounds like George Best, the rest he wasted

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

Sounds like George Best, the rest he wasted

Pretty much, yeah.

 

[Falcow]

Moyes was Scottish like SAF.
I always thought that when Ferguson left was the time to appoint Mourinho. I think he could have been successful at that point. The problems caused by the failed recruitment in Moyes summer window is something we never recovered from. A manager and 'big name' like Mourinho night have attracted big name players and stopped the slump from happening.

I remember us being linked with the likes of fabregas, bale, kroos and Thiago and only getting fellaini...

Agree with this, we never recovered from the damage Moyes caused by dismantling the coaching team, that said, jose would have brought rui with him anyway so mike phelan would most likely left. Even at that, the moyes appointment was the crucial initial mistake from which all else seems to have followed.

As far as that indo article is concerned, is it not true to say that most of citys best players over the last few years I.e. Aguero, Silva, Kompany (spine of the team) came in before the Catalan connection? The importance of those 3 players cannot be underestimated and city simply would not be as good without those 3 players blueprint or no blueprint.

Finally city have signed their share of misfits and wasted plenty of money since the Catalans came in....the article however conveniently ignores that.

 

[Class of 63]

Not remotely the same situation, we weren’t a big or as rich in comparison to 99.9% of other clubs, back then.
Since 2013 we’ve spent it all on hookers, booze and coke.

Is Martin Edwards still on the payroll?

 

[Sandikan]

• Was there a manager that was a worse choice than David Moyes?
?

I truly believe that not a single manager in English football could have done worse than Moyes that season.

There's been plenty of revisionism about how weak the squad Moyes picked up was, but the facts is they romped to a league title, and then came 7th the next season. Just amazing.
To finish under Everton was just the final master touch from Moyes!

 

[shamans]

I truly believe that not a single manager in English football could have done worse than Moyes that season.

There's been plenty of revisionism about how weak the squad Moyes picked up was, but the facts is they romped to a league title, and then came 7th the next season. Just amazing.
To finish under Everton was just the final master touch from Moyes!

Not everything is that simple. Look at vidic/rio of late 2012. Look at vidic/rio of October 2012. Totally diff players who were finished.

 

[Class of 63]

This is such a bad example imo. United post 2013 has had like 50 times the advantage compared to other clubs with money and resources. We have a global fanbase that generates billions.

You can't be content with a massive cooperation making 10 dollars a month just because it made 3 dollars a long time ago when it was a mom and pop shop.

Yeah we will have 1965 level expectations if the club charges 1965 level ticket prices and players earn similar as well. (not really but you get what I'm saying)

We'll just have to disagree then. Today's fans don't know they're born, if there was social media/twitter and the fans had the same attitude back then the club would probably have gone out of business in 1974.

 

[shamans]

We'll just have to disagree then. Today's fans don't know they're born, if there was social media/twitter and the fans had the same attitude back then the club would probably have gone out of business in 1974.

It's these same "spoilt" fans why the club is what it is right now. All this money comes at a price. In '74 the fan base could never compare to what it is now in terms of size and money

 

[Sandikan]

Not everything is that simple. Look at vidic/rio of late 2012. Look at vidic/rio of October 2012. Totally diff players who were finished.

Do you mean late in Fergie's season, versus a few months into Moyes' season?

 

[Irrational.]

I don’t think we could’ve done much worse if we’d actively looked to sabotage the club ourselves. From start to finish it’s been an utter disaster with very few highlights.

 

[shamans]

Do you mean late in Fergie's season, versus a few months into Moyes' season?

Yeah that's my point. Altho it seems like the same squad it wasn't. A decline in 30's takes only a month sometimes. Several key players declined sharply.

 

[Sandikan]

Yeah that's my point. Altho it seems like the same squad it wasn't. A decline in 30's takes only a month sometimes. Several key players declined sharply.

It's tough to decide how much was down to Moyes and how much was down to the players themselves.

Either way, a return of 7th was criminal.

 

[shamans]

It's tough to decide how much was down to Moyes and how much was down to the players themselves.

Either way, a return of 7th was criminal.

Yeah it was but the squad wasn't good either.

 

[redshaw]

Could've appointed Gary Neville or Roy Keane as manager

 

[f_to_z]

When Gill and Ferguson left the club it was setup to win, just needed fixes here and there to keep improving. All the staff under Ferguson knew the winning ways and would atleast keep it going even if the next manager just came in sat in his office chair and played Tetris all day. Moyes comes in and thinks hes the next big thing and fires most of Fergusons staff. This move alone was the one of the worse decisions a manager can make yet alone a club can make.

The board had no idea how to run a club that they left all things to the manager to run, as did Ferguson during his days. The board should have declined Moyes decision to fire the staff. This was the first of many bad decisions that would come year after year until we have reached this state we are in of starting from zero. Instead we could have continued with what Ferguson has handed to us and make small fixes and changes along the way to improve.

 

[Merlin 1975-78]

Didnt Gill announce his departure before Fergie? But I reckon United thought they had a good structure in place where a new manager would come in and just continue with what Fergie did. I mean afterall, we were champions needing only a few signings in the middle. Coaching structure in place who the players there trusted.

Moyes came in and ripped most of that apart. The first thing he did was lower expectations, saying Fergie wouldnt be able to do much with the players (you know, the same players he won the league with a few months earlier). Moyes basically got rid of winning coaches and brought in nobodies (and added Giggs and P.Neville who were basically there to learn and not contribute).

Our first window needed to be a sign of intent. But instead we paid for a player who we could have got for cheaper a week before. (and that whole debacle with Herrera, almost getting that LB from Madrid on loan but then not getting him, and Woodward leaving Australia ) + Moyes name dropping three (Fabregas, Bale, Ronaldo?)

The whole thing has been a mess. We brought in three different types of managers, instead of one to continue the work of the previous (or improve on it).
And the three managers, one wasnt good enough, one came here to fund his retirement (And for some reason we gave an extra year despite him not wanting it), and one who was fired six months earlier (who is known for blowing up after season 2 especially if he doesnt get the players he wants to build a team).
And then just spent like idiots on players without a plan on what system we were going to play.

I reckon you have summed everything-up very well in that post.

 

[Bobski]

We must have spent near a billion on incoming players since Fergie retired. Would you need the fingers on one hand to count off the successes? Or even the thumbs of both?

 

[Denis79]

All the signings we didn't make is because SAF had a net spend of 19M / year after the Glazer take-over, it would have been even less without the Ronaldo sale. Meanwhile the likes of Chelsea and City outspent us by more than 500M from 2005 to 2013. SAF was never even given a proper chance to maintain dominance, but still did it which says a lot about his brilliance.

 

[Hughie77]

Some of us remember the late 70s early 80s before SAF, that was very similar to what's happening now? Same kind of results, up down, etc, manager after manager, ok Big Ron did well but fell short.

Maybe Oles the new Big Ron, keeping us going until the next Top Top guy comes in, and for me it's Poch and I think we will get him next season at least if Ole doesn't deliver? Transition is tough !

 

[Sunny Jim]

Indeed.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...-woodward-epl-transfer-man-city-a9091531.html

Nailed it. The rebuild should start with asking a very simple question...who do we want to be. We dont have that question yet, not to mention the answer.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Nailed it. The rebuild should start with asking a very simple question...who do we want to be. We dont have that question yet, not to mention the answer.

And who should be in charge of it, clearly should no longer be Woodward who has presided over all these failures without apology or embarrassment it seems.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Indeed.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...-woodward-epl-transfer-man-city-a9091531.html

The article is interesting but the comparison with City really bugs me. They are clearly spending more than what is included in their financials. Never once has a player wanted to leave that club since the Arabs became owners. It’s already proven that Mancini was paid two salaries from separate companies, it’s highly likely every player is as well.

We don’t have direction and Woodward is the clear reason for this. The first step to correcting this club is removing him. No manager will be able to succeed with him above them. He’s so bad at negotiating in the transfer market in both selling and buying players. That has ultimately stunted us improving. Buying 3 players this summer whilst selling half the squad just proves he doesn’t have a clue. Dead wood may have been sold but we are fecked when we start playing Europa League, there simply isn’t enough players to cope with 2 games a week.

 

[Bwuk]

No.

We’ve made embarrassing decision after embarrassing decision.

 

[Chabon]

Yeah that's my point. Altho it seems like the same squad it wasn't. A decline in 30's takes only a month sometimes. Several key players declined sharply.

Vidic was barely involved in Fergie's last two seasons. Which key players are you referring to?

Yeah it was but the squad wasn't good either.

It was good enough to get 89 points in successive seasons and then drop down to 64 in a third. How anyone thinks that's down to anyone other than the manager is beyond me. Honestly, David Moyes apologetics in the year of our lord 2019...

 

[royboy16]

Our planning for stability and to remain some bit competitive post Fergie has been poor.
It will be interesting to see how long Madrid will take to shake things up and get back on track.I dont think they will be limping for 6 years like we have.

 

[Castia]

All started the day we appointed Moyes, A more capable manager wouldn’t have seen us slip to seventh.

The whole ordeal of SAF retiring and Gill leaving was actually a colossal mess. The appointment had to be perfect and if that required waiting 12 months for Pep then so be it, let SAF backroom staff take over for a year they would have walked to top 4.