Cricket ODI Auction Draft FINAL - Mani vs Samid

[crappycraperson]

Please adjudicate who will win over a 5 match series on following pitches -

1. Flat track - Paradise for batsmen, no assistance to either fast or slow bowlers.
2. Good batting pitch with assistance for seamers/pacers - Reasonably good surface for batsmen; fast bowlers can exploit some movement off the pitch with new ball along with reasonable bounce; no particular assistance for slow bowlers or spinners.
3. Good batting pitch with assistance for spinners - Reasonably good surface for batsmen; fast bowlers will get no help from the pitch; spinners will be able to exploit the pitch with an older ball
4. Good bowling pitch for seamers/pacers: pacers/seamers will be get assistance throughout the match; spinners will not get any assistance; batsmen will have to dig deep to make runs against pacers.
5. Good bowling pitch for slow bowlers/spinners: slow bowlers/spinners will be get assistance throughout the match; pacers will not get any assistance; batsmen will have to dig deep to make runs against slow bowlers.

Team Mani

1. S.JAYASURIYA (Pitch #1, #2, #3, #5) / G.KIRSTEN (Pitch #1)
2. G.GAMBHIR
3. V. RICHARDS
4. AB. DeVILLIERS
5. MS. DHONI (Wk) (C)
6. A. SYMONDS
7. IMRAN KHAN
8. S.WARNE
9. M.MARSHALL
10. S.BOND
11. M.MORKEL

Team Samid

1. Sachin Tendulkar
2. Tilakaratne Dilshan
3. Babar Azam
4. Joe Root
5. Jos Buttler (wk)
6. Michael Bevan
7. Lance Klusener
8. Mitchell Starc
9. Saeed Ajmal
10. Glenn McGrath
11. Allan Donald (Pitch 1,2,3,4) / Kuldeep Yadav (Pitch 5)

 

[crappycraperson]

Mani's 11 Write up

1.Opening batsmen's (S.Jayasurya / G.Gambhir )

This team got the complimentary opening partnership with ( S.Jayasurya & G.Gambhir ) Sanath would be more attacking while Gambhir would provide the support Jayasurya requires.Notable thing about these two openers is that they figured in the WC winning squad who had made tremoundous contributed to their success in the WC leading from the front.G.Kristen would be joining Gambhir for pitch 4, Kristen's batting approach would suit here much better,who's cautious approach would give much needed support to the middle order.

2.MIddle and lower middle order ( Viv Richards / AB DeVilliers / MS.Dhoni /A.Symonds / Imran Khan )

AB De Villiers joining the squad for the final, MIddle order of Viv Richards /AB de Villers / MS Dhoni is the best we could see from any ODI side.Viv Richards/AB De Villers would provide the much needed stability in case of any early wickets at the same time keep the run rate at premium which will also help the batsmen lower down to go for aggressive approach in death overs.Top order got perfect nerve to pace the innings in such a way to chase it while batting second or put together a mammoth total when batting first.MS Dhoni / A.Symonds / Imran coming at 5, 6 & 7 shows the depth in the batting order, all three batsmen are hard hitter of cricket ball and can clear boundaries at ease.Dhoni /Symonds both with the strike rate close to 100 along with Imran at 7 is arguable the best LMO combination you can see in this draft.

3.Bowling : 5 Premium bowlers + 3 part timers.

( M.Marshall / Imran Khan / S.Warne / S.Bond / M.Morkel ) + Viv Richards + S.Jayasurya & A.Symonds

Team will be feilded with 5 bowlers, led by M.Marshall & Imran Khan supported by S.Bond and M.Morkel all four can swing the ball either ways which would be difficult to get away in those early overs,their pace would trouble any top batsmen these bowlers can bowl those Yorkers or slow balls at will during end overs which would be difficult to dislodge. Middle overs will be handled by S.Warne,(best spin bowler the world had ever seen) will help in providing the team with his usual breaks in those middle overs which that team requires also would be supported by Viv Richards , A.Symonds and S.Jayasurya.
Team is well balanced with pacers and spinners (S.Warne) along with part time bowlers and remains confident of bowling in any type of pitches, team would remains same for all three pitches.

4.MS.Dhoni -Captain / WK

Team marshalled by more efficient captain MS.Dhoni, he's not just the explosive batsmen, he improves batsmen's around him gives them much needed confident, which obviously translates to much better batting side while team decides to chase.Staying behind wickets helps him in set perfect fielding.Man had led country to two World Cup success.

5. Leaders in team: ( Jayasurya / Viv Richards / Imran Khan / MS.Dhoni / S.Warne ) who will be valuable to the team in team of assisting for successful chase as well their inputs during team in fielding which can't be matched by any teams in this draft.

6.AB De Villers -
De Villiers is a 360-degree batsman who can hit any ball, anywhere, against any bowler. Indeed, his range of inventive shots has grown as his career has unfolded. He has been ranked among the top Test and ODI batsmen in the world.



World Cup winners in the squad

1.S.Jayasurya - (Player of the tournament 1996 WC)

2.G.Gambhir - (Winner of WC 2011) Crucial 90 in final gave perfect platform for team to chase and win the WC.

3.Viv Richards ( Part of 2 World Cup winning squad and influential in 79 Wc win)

4.Imran Khan- ( Lead Pakistan to their first World Cup, contributed with both bat and ball)

5.MS.Dhoni -Winner of 2011 WC, captain's knock in final coming lower down the order.

6.A.Symonds - Part of two World Cup winning squad (2003 & 2007) contributed with both bat and ball.

7.S.Warne- Winner of 1999 WC, perfect bowling figure in SF and Final.


Why this team would win this tie..

1. Complementary batting order in the top and best Middle order among both team with perfect finishers.

2.Four genuine quickies and world class spin attack supported by three part times bowlers.

3.Unlike Samid's team this team is full of leaders with lot of match experience who can guide team at crucial period of the match against any kind of the attack.

4.Coming into Samid's team he had build quality side with batsmen's like Sachin at top and best finishers with Bevan and Zulu,but I had certain reservation against some of his player's,Babar Azam doesn't belong to this all time final team who had yet to prove in top stage.Saeed Ajmal didn't deserve place in the eleven considering his suspect action for which ICC had banned and with his corrected action he didn't prove anything followed by quick retirement, these things may look like minor but coming to the final these should've been corrected.


Team Samid

	Runs	Avg	SR	Wkts	Avg	SR	Eco
Tendulkar	18426	45	86	154	44	52	5.1
Dilshan	10290	39	86	106	45	55	4.8
Babar	3359	54	87
Root	5922	51	87
Buttler	3843	41	120
Bevan	6912	54	74
Klusener	3576	41	90	192	29	38	4.7
Starc				178	22	26	5.1
Ajmal				184	22	32	4.2
McGrath				381	22	34	3.8
Donald (P1,2,3,4)				272	21	31	4.1
Yadav (P5)				104	26	30	5.1

Batting:

Sachin Tendulkar. 18 000+ runs. Played in 4 different decades. Faced everything. Pace, swing, bounce, spin. Everything. Conquered it all. The best batsman in this final, and possibly ever in ODIs.

Tilakaratne Dilshan's overall numbers don't do him any justice. For the early part of his career he was wasted down the order. When he finally got the nod at the top of the order he became unstoppable, accumulating 7000+ runs in 7 calendar years. As an opener he averages 46 @ 89. During his peak years he was one of the best batsmen around. He was vital to Sri Lanka's World Cup campaign in 2011 with match winning displays in both the quarter and semi final. He was unorthodox and an innovator. Such big was his impact that he had a shot named after him. Jayasuriya may be SL's most entertaining batsman but Dilshan isn't far behind in second place.

Babar Azam and Joe Root are two effortless batsmen that would dominate the game in any era. Excellent timers and rotators of the strike. Both are great players of spin, and Babar in particular thrives on bowling friendly pitches.

Jos Buttler is a modern day great. No one else has the ability to do what he does. Scoring at 120 while maintaining an average of 40+ is insane. He may still be in his 20s but the impact he already has had on the game has been extraordinary. England were a laughing stock in ODIs for decades. They were playing an outdated brand of cricket, were using test specialists in ODIs and always fell well short when it mattered. Buttler's emergence was a eureka moment for English cricket. They realised the importance of having white ball specialists, cracked the code of playing an expansive brand of cricket and Buttler was pretty much at the forefront of that revolution. It paid dividends when they finally got to lift the World Cup in 2019.

And despite his wild power hitting abilities, Buttler is by no means one dimensional. In 2018, chasing a modest score of 208, England found themselves 27/4 when Buttler walked out to bat. They were later 114/8 but Buttler led the way with a composed century and saw his side home with one wicket in hand. In the World Cup final he played a measured run a ball 59 at a vital part of the innings. Being able to play these measured innings while still maintaining a crazy strike rate makes him priceless in this format.

Michael Bevan is top 2 finishers of all time, possibly even the greatest. Despite batting down the order in those great Australian lineups, Bevan time after time found himself in a position where he had to rescue the team from tricky positions. And he was triumphant most of the times. His average of 54 is simply unheard of for a player from that era and that's a testament to his determination to remaining at the crease until the end and getting the team over the line. Bevan was a true master of all conditions.

Don't be fooled by his lowish strike rate. That's entirely down to the sheer amount of rebuilding jobs he had to partake in. When he had the licence to kill he was lethal. This, for me, is the most sensational one day innings ever. I have no idea why it wasn't classified as an ODI at the time.



Lance Klusener was just fantastic. He had the ability to be both calm and devastative, depending on what the match situation required at the time. He was the player of the tournament at he World Cup 1999. Zulu had an aura of invincibility at that tournament. Best player by a mile and would have deserved to get his hands on the trophy. In the late 90s he was probably the best cricketer in the world. Some may argue batting wasn't even his strongest suit. Yet he would absolutely rip bowlers apart and put up staggering batting numbers.

Bowling:

Glenn McGrath is the greatest ODI bowler imo. He rattled oppositions, took out their best batsmen and always delivered under pressure. Everything he did happened on his terms. Highly instrumental in all three of the World Cups he won and he even bowed out on his own terms by being named player of the tournament in 2007. A true master of psychological warfare.

Mitchell Starc is the dream partner for McGrath. While the latter will torment you mentally, Starc will torment you in all other ways. His strike rate of 26 is the best ever for players with more than 50 games. Just like his compatriot on the opposite end, Starc is also a big stage performer. He also has a World Cup player of the tournament to his name, as well as top wicket taker in both WCs he has played. His 49 wickets in 18 World Cup games (avg. 14, SR 19) is truly a mind blowing record. There is never any respite when Starc is bowling. He is relentless in every single spell. He takes wickets in his opening spell. He then bowls a couple of overs in the middle overs and constantly breaks partnerships. And at the death he is one of the most lethal bowlers around with his accurate yorkers. Deadly and accurate yorkers is a constant theme throughout his 10 overs.

Allan Donald is the perfect first change bowler. If facing McGrath and Starc wasn't hard enough, things don't become any easier when Donald comes on. The White Lightning was rapid. He had a phenomenal action and bowled with sustained aggression. Him and Lance Klusener were outstanding at the 1999 WC, picking up 35 wickets between them in 9 games. In that tied semi, Donald broke Australia's middle order and picked up 4/32. As mentioned earlier, some may argue that Klusener was a better bowler than batsman, and they may well have a decent case. Early on in his career Zulu was outright fast. After his injury he tweaked his bowling and became a fantastic fast-medium bowler. He wasn't just an all rounder making up the numbers with the ball. An average below 30 and an economy of 4.7 shows he was a proper bowler.

Saeed Ajmal and Kuldeep Yadav with their excellent averages and strike rates will strangle the opposition in the middle overs on pitch 5. Ajmal will provide deadly wicket to wicket accuracy. Kuldeep with his unorthodox chinaman bowling and variation will offer a different test altogether. In addition, Sachin Tendulkar will be bowling some of Klusener's overs on pitches 3 and 5. A very underrated ODI bowler who could spin the ball both ways.

Overall this bowling lineup has everything. Three of the greatest seamers in ODIs. Left/right new ball combination. One will torment you outside the off stump. The other will torment you by bowling full and straight. First change bowler has lethal pace, and batsmen were genuinely frightened when they came up against him. The fourth seamer has to be one of the best fourth seamers ever. And the main spinner is an excellent and accurate bowler with a deadly doosra.

Why I win:

• My bowling attack is on a whole another level.
• Mani's bowling is underwhelming. Morkel/Streak have absolutely no business starting any games in the final of an all time draft. Marshall wasn't anything special in ODIs. It isn't Imran's best format either. Bond is the only real wicket taking threat in the seam department. He was an excellent bowler but also someone you couldn't build a team around because he would miss more games than he played. Being overly reliant on someone so fragile is asking for trouble.
• Sachin is better than Viv. Viv, as great as he was, rarely came up against bowling attacks as great as mine. The best bowlers in his era were on his own team. Compare that to Sachin, who came up against the best bowlers in decade after decade. Sachin won't face any problems dealing with the opposition bowling, Viv on the other hand will be seriously challenged every time he walks out to bat.
• I have the more effective late middle order with Buttler, Bevan and Klusener. AB and Dhoni are excellent no doubt but Imran Khan batting so low in the order is a waste. Mani's team structure is unbalanced.
• Mani's reinforcement for the final was extremely passive. Instead of putting out the glaring fires in his bowling department, he chose to invest in AB. He did this to stop me from getting him. If anything, his team is in a worse shape now. His batting lineup is now a clusterfeck to accommodate for AB, with several batsmen batting out of position. His bowling lineup still has major flaws. He spent his money on a top class player he didn't need. Meanwhile, I got two top class players in Buttler and Starc and sorted out any issues I had. I fixed my flaws. Mani didn't.

 

[crappycraperson]

@Samid @Mani

 

[Himannv]

Personally I'd have Symonds at 5 and Dhoni at 6. Symonds takes a couple of overs to get his eye in before he gets started. Dhoni needs no such time.

Really like the look of @Samid team though. It finally looks complete and balanced. I don't know how to rate Babar Azam just yet, but it still looks structurally perfect.

Will read through the arguments put forward tomorrow and then decide.

 

[Himannv]

@Samid who is your captain? I see @Mani has raised a point about leadership.

 

[Skills]

Samid wins I think. Only concern I would have is Root and Azam eating up too much time in the middle. Ideally I'd want neither of them there past the 35th over, as they then just cannibalise into the lower order blitz.

 

[2mufc0]

@Mani needed a bowler here , can’t see him competing on this front with Samids attack, the batting is about equal, both have their weak spots too though.

 

[crappycraperson]

Samid wins I think. Only concern I would have is Root and Azam eating up too much time in the middle. Ideally I'd want neither of them there past the 35th over, as they then just cannibalise into the lower order blitz.

I think that is the primary problem with that batting order. You ideally want Bevan at 4 in that team since you have Butler and Klusener to play role of finisher. One of azam or root at 3 would have sufficed.

 

[2mufc0]

Being modern batsmen Babar and Root can score a run a ball , I don’t see it inhibiting the batting esp with Sachin and Dilshan able to make a quick start.

 

[crappycraperson]

@Mani needed a bowler here , can’t see him competing on this front with Samids attack, the batting is about equal, both have their weak spots too though.

I thought so too at first but @Mani does have Warne, Imran and Bond. All 3 are final worthy here IMO. Marshall is fine while Morkel is iffy. But you probably don't need Morkel in that team since Symonds, Viv and Jayasuriya can bowl 10 if not more overs amongst them easily.

 

[crappycraperson]

Being modern batsmen Babar and Root can score a run a ball , I don’t see it inhibiting the batting esp with Sachin and Dilshan able to make a quick start.

I don't think that is correct way to look at it. They have these records precisely because current pitches and because of lack of bowling quality about. Best new school bowler across both teams is Starc which says a lot. I don't rate Root and Azam high enough to last on tougher pitches against someone like Warne.

 

[2mufc0]

I thought so too at first but @Mani does have Warne, Imran and Bond. All 3 are final worthy here IMO. Marshall is fine while Morkel is iffy. But you probably don't need Morkel in that team since Symonds, Viv and Jayasuriya can bowl 10 if not more overs amongst them easily.

Yes they can do a job but in comparison with the opposition it pales a bit, plus you also have the Sachin factor who used to toy with Warne. Mani needed to get a bowler and I don’t see his team significantly better than the last round.

 

[The Man Himself]

I see Samid better in opening but Mani’s middle order is far far better. Lower middle order also Mani’s is better. Pacers are equal whereas spinners I rate Mani better.
Other thing, looking at both teams and players not worthy of all time final draft, I see Gambhir and Morkel as 2 such in Mani’s squad whereas from Samid’s squad none of Ajmal, Kuldeep, Root, Azam and Dilshan are final draft worthy. Hence going with Mani.

 

[Samid]

@Samid who is your captain? I see @Mani has raised a point about leadership.

Sachin. The leadership argument is a two edged sword. Having too many in one team is counterproductive and can have detrimental effects on the squad. Someone like Imran is half the player without the captaincy.

 

[Himannv]

Just watched that Bevan video. Incredible knock really for the time it took place.

 

[crappycraperson]

Pitch wise analysis mixed up-

pitch 4 - Samid clear winner IMO, his pace trio gives him an edge since it blunts the impact of Mani's lower order since Dhoni would struggle here.

pitch 5 - Mani seems like a good choice here given Warne is in different class to Sajeed or Yadav but Sachin being opposing team is a problem. I would still give some benefit of doubt on a uber spin friendly wicket to Warne to do some damage.

Now you come to 3 batting friendly wickets-

pitch 1: I think Mani's 3-6 is just too strong here. Yes Samid has Sachin, Bevan, Butler and Klusener too but Vivs, ABD and Dhoni will be in prime position to close out the match on this kind of pitch.


Pitch 3... On somewhat batting friendly pitch with spin assistance .. I am afraid it is fair to assume that Sachin would blunt Warne's impact here which really hurts Mani IMO. Again it is a batting friendly wicket so Mani's batting order sways me to that side but not sure.

Pitch 2: Samid pace attack blunts Mani's batting advantage IMO so tempted to think Samid will take this one.

I think it comes down to pitch 3 for me.. Sachin vs Warne factor is huge here IMO.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

Mani's MO gets him over the line for me. I don't like Morkel at all in a final but he has other quality pacers, plus I prefer his spin options even with the Sachin v Warne factor.

 

[Mani]

Yes they can do a job but in comparison with the opposition it pales a bit, plus you also have the Sachin factor who used to toy with Warne. Mani needed to get a bowler and I don’t see his team significantly better than the last round.

Team with 5 bowler and 3 part timers need bowlers ?

 

[Moby]

Mani's middle order is fecking OP. They're not going to lose this.

 

[Mani]

Sachin. The leadership argument is a two edged sword. Having too many in one team is counterproductive and can have detrimental effects on the squad. Someone like Imran is half the player without the captaincy.

Having too many in one team doesn’t mean everyone taking the captain role,every great team in different era had good leaders where as Captain being one,great windies and Aussie teams are fine example.

 

[crappycraperson]

Mani's middle order is fecking OP. They're not going to lose this.

Yes I don't understand why Samid went on about ABD fecking up Samid's batting order when if anything AB at 4 with Symonds at 6 makes more sense.

 

[Mani]

• Mani's reinforcement for the final was extremely passive. Instead of putting out the glaring fires in his bowling department, he chose to invest in AB. He did this to stop me from getting him. If anything, his team is in a worse shape now. His batting lineup is now a clusterfeck to accommodate for AB, with several batsmen batting out of position. His bowling lineup still has major flaws. He spent his money on a top class player he didn't need. Meanwhile, I got two top class players in Buttler and Starc and sorted out any issues I had. I fixed my flaws. Mani didn't.

I replaced Raina with ABD how is that not the upgrade ?You got glaring weakness in too many departments before the start final.ABD wouldn’t have sorted your bowling problem.Still you got Saeed Ajmal in the line up who shouldn’t start in any team considering his illegal bowling action .

 

[Mani]

Samid wins I think. Only concern I would have is Root and Azam eating up too much time in the middle. Ideally I'd want neither of them there past the 35th over, as they then just cannibalise into the lower order blitz.

Excatly that’s what would happen here,there would be not much overs left for his LMO.

 

[Samid]

I see Samid better in opening but Mani’s middle order is far far better. Lower middle order also Mani’s is better. Pacers are equal whereas spinners I rate Mani better.
Other thing, looking at both teams and players not worthy of all time final draft, I see Gambhir and Morkel as 2 such in Mani’s squad whereas from Samid’s squad none of Ajmal, Kuldeep, Root, Azam and Dilshan are final draft worthy. Hence going with Mani.

So much wrong in this post.

McGrath, Starc, Donald, Klusener are equal to Marshall, Bond, Imran, Morkel? In what world? Marshall is getting overrated because of his test record, he was nothing special in ODIs. Morkel isn't even fit to lace the boots of any of my bowlers.

How is his lower middle order with Symonds and Imran better than Bevan and Klusener? Bevan is twice the player Symonds was. And Imran is completely wasted at 7.

The only area he is better in is 3-5. That's a solid middle order but also a middle order that will be facing the new ball because Gambir is a non-factor and Jayasuriya is hit and miss.

His spinners may be better on paper but in reality we're all aware of Sachin's dominance against Warne. His other spinners aren't any match for Sachin or Bevan either.

Dilshan with 10k+ runs and averaging 45 as an opener and leading his team to a WC final is not 'final worthy' but Bond who could barely play 5 games per year without breaking down is. Ok

 

[Mani]

So much wrong in this post.

McGrath, Starc, Donald, Klusener are equal to Marshall, Bond, Imran, Morkel? In what world? Marshall is getting overrated because of his test record, he was nothing special in ODIs. Morkel isn't even fit to lace the boots of any of my bowlers.

How is his lower middle order with Symonds and Imran better than Bevan and Klusener? Bevan is twice the player Symonds was. And Imran is completely wasted at 7.

The only area he is better in is 3-5. That's a solid middle order but also a middle order that will be facing the new ball because Gambir is a non-factor and Jayasuriya is hit and miss.

His spinners may be better on paper but in reality we're all aware of Sachin's dominance against Warne. His other spinners aren't any match for Sachin or Bevan either.

Dilshan with 10k+ runs and averaging 45 as an opener and leading his team to a WC final is not 'final worthy' but Bond who could barely play 5 games per year without breaking down is. Ok

How do you differentiate both these players ? How is Bevan twice the player to Symonds ?

 

[The Man Himself]

So much wrong in this post.

McGrath, Starc, Donald, Klusener are equal to Marshall, Bond, Imran, Morkel? In what world? Marshall is getting overrated because of his test record, he was nothing special in ODIs. Morkel isn't even fit to lace the boots of any of my bowlers.

How is his lower middle order with Symonds and Imran better than Bevan and Klusener? Bevan is twice the player Symonds was. And Imran is completely wasted at 7.

The only area he is better in is 3-5. That's a solid middle order but also a middle order that will be facing the new ball because Gambir is a non-factor and Jayasuriya is hit and miss.

His spinners may be better on paper but in reality we're all aware of Sachin's dominance against Warne. His other spinners aren't any match for Sachin or Bevan either.

Dilshan with 10k+ runs and averaging 45 as an opener and leading his team to a WC final is not 'final worthy' but Bond who could barely play 5 games per year without breaking down is. Ok

You are right. Actually on second thoughts his pace attack is slightly better. Klusener is a bang average bowler and far far worse than Morkel. Not fit to lace Morkel’s boots in your words. Then we are left with Imran+Bond+Marshall against Donald, Starc and McGrath. So yeah, not equal his looks better due to Klusener vs Morkel.

Symonds is just bit of lesser than Bevan not the bullshit of half the player. So I don’t see you having much advantage there. There is no wasting at 7 because if at all your bowlers get through his middle order cheaply, there is Imran to handle innings.

Warne vs Sachin is a factor but carrying a chucker who was banned by ICC and a new guy who has barely played 60 odd matches and concedes at 5.5 makes your spin department good? If Warne is getting smashed, Kullu will be conceding 85+ on same pitch. Bevan has 36 wickets at average of 45. Symonds 133 at 37. Sanath is better bowler than Sachin. He also has Sir Viv who has two 5 wicket hauls and 115 odd wickets at avg of 35 and your answer to that is feckin Bevan as support bowler in final. So your support acts are far worse.

Gambhir is a non-factor after scoring 97 in World Cup final but fecking Dilshan is world beater Rohit was far far better opener you had and your opening though still better is not as good because Dilshan from Rohit is downgrade.

 

[2mufc0]

I don't think that is correct way to look at it. They have these records precisely because current pitches and because of lack of bowling quality about. Best new school bowler across both teams is Starc which says a lot. I don't rate Root and Azam high enough to last on tougher pitches against someone like Warne.

I don't think that's accurate, otherwise all modern batsmen would be averaging around the 50 mark. Although there are batsmen who average higher in this era not many have records like Root and Babar. I haven't checked but I don't think there are many batsmen who have around 6 K runs and avg more than 50.

 

[crappycraperson]

I don't think that's accurate, otherwise all modern batsmen would be averaging around the 50 mark. Although there are batsmen who average higher in this era not many have records like Root and Babar. I haven't checked but I don't think there are many batsmen who have around 6 K runs and avg more than 50.

Yes, Babar and Root are good batsmen but are they better than likes of Lara, Inzy, Waugh, Sanga, Pointing, Jones, Crowe from previous era? I don't think so, I would rather them below all of these. Someone like Trott also averaged 50+ in ODI, Shai Hope averages 50+ too. Babar and Root are easily better than these two given their SR is healthy but just giving an example that inflated averages is not the sole criterion to judge a player on.

 

[The Cat]

Would have liked to have seen Morgan in one of these teams.

 

[Samid]

You are right. Actually on second thoughts his pace attack is slightly better. Klusener is a bang average bowler and far far worse than Morkel. Not fit to lace Morkel’s boots in your words. Then we are left with Imran+Bond+Marshall against Donald, Starc and McGrath. So yeah, not equal his looks better due to Klusener vs Morkel.

Symonds is just bit of lesser than Bevan not the bullshit of half the player. So I don’t see you having much advantage there. There is no wasting at 7 because if at all your bowlers get through his middle order cheaply, there is Imran to handle innings.

Warne vs Sachin is a factor but carrying a chucker who was banned by ICC and a new guy who has barely played 60 odd matches and concedes at 5.5 makes your spin department good? If Warne is getting smashed, Kullu will be conceding 85+ on same pitch. Bevan has 36 wickets at average of 45. Symonds 133 at 37. Sanath is better bowler than Sachin. He also has Sir Viv who has two 5 wicket hauls and 115 odd wickets at avg of 35 and your answer to that is feckin Bevan as support bowler in final. So your support acts are far worse.

Gambhir is a non-factor after scoring 97 in World Cup final but fecking Dilshan is world beater Rohit was far far better opener you had and your opening though still better is not as good because Dilshan from Rohit is downgrade.

Embarrassing post. Try reading the writeup before going on pointless rants. Nowhere have I even mentioned that Bevan will bowl a single over for me. I haven't even listed up his bowling stats in my stats column. Apart from Sachin bowling 4-5 overs on the spinning tracks I don't need 'support acts' because I have picked a strong core of bowlers. Anyone relying on 3-4 different 'support acts' to bowl out 50 overs in an ODI is in serious trouble.

Yadav is playing one game. On a track that suits him perfectly. If you're going to make a point of his economy rate then I can counter with the high batting averages of Root and Babar. Or do all batsmen post 2010 suck because they have inflated averages and all the bowlers suck because they have high economy rates?

On one side you're pissing on a player because he has 'barely played 60 odd matches' and is 'not draft final worthy'. On the other you're pissing on a player with 330 matches and 10k+ runs because 'he's not draft final worthy'. 60 matches isn't enough. 330 matches isn't enough. Sound logic.

I don't get your obsession of constantly comparing Klusener, an allrounder averaging 40 with the bat, with outright bowlers who are tailenders. You were doing the same in the QF with Klusener and Johnson/Gillespie. You're doing the same now with Klusener vs Morkel. I actually can't figure out if you're trolling with these nonsense comparisons time after time or if you genuinely believe they're in any way or shape comparable. Morkel's direct comparison in this matchup is Donald. But obviously you don't want to make that comparison.

Try putting forward serious arguments rather than such petty ones. And no need to put words in others mouths. I won't be entertaining further posts like this one. Hopefully the others stick to actual arguments so we can get a constructive discussion here.

 

[anant]

Going for Mani, because I just don't rate Babar and Root that high. While Samid's LMO is better, they'll probably be first asked to control the fire than just go on a mindless hitting streak.

 

[Samid]

Having too many in one team doesn’t mean everyone taking the captain role,every great team in different era had good leaders where as Captain being one,great windies and Aussie teams are fine example.

What exactly is a leader? Offering advice in the field? The likes of Tendulkar, Bevan, McGrath, Buttler all are leaders in their own right on the field imo.

In pressure cookers while fielding I would argue that all you need is one clear leader, the bowler and possibly the vice captain. If you've got 5-6 leaders on the pitch the captain will never know who to turn to for advice. A captain needs clarity.

Besides, someone like Imran performs much better when he's captain. Taking away the captaincy from him means you take away a lot of his aura. He's simply not as effective as a regular team member than he is as captain.

 

[Mani]

What exactly is a leader? Offering advice in the field? The likes of Tendulkar, Bevan, McGrath, Buttler all are leaders in their own right on the field imo.

In pressure cookers while fielding I would argue that all you need is one clear leader, the bowler and possibly the vice captain. If you've got 5-6 leaders on the pitch the captain will never know who to turn to for advice. A captain needs clarity.

Besides, someone like Imran performs much better when he's captain. Taking away the captaincy from him means you take away a lot of his aura. He's simply not as effective as a regular team member than he is as captain.

In fielding like situation when one a bowler bowls player like Imran who usually speaking to bowler which would be valuable considering the experience he got in bowling instead of Dhoni moving around.
While batting,batsmen’s like Gautham batting along with Viv Richards or its Symonds playing along with Dhoni would make huge difference considering Dhoni’s success rate with the chase Root or Babar Azam doesn’t get those kind of inputs in your team considering Sachin come in too early and Bevan come in so late which mean your middle order lacks experience /guidelines when chips are down.

 

[Samid]

I replaced Raina with ABD how is that not the upgrade ?You got glaring weakness in too many departments before the start final.ABD wouldn’t have sorted your bowling problem.Still you got Saeed Ajmal in the line up who shouldn’t start in any team considering his illegal bowling action .

Okay...

I don't have any issue with Ajmal's action or he's playing here, in fact he's one of the important factor for me to go with KM.Boycott had got good batting unit but chasing /batting second against the quality of Ajmal/Donald and Gillespie should be an issue.

I can't take your draft posts seriously with nonsense like this. If you want to take a stance on an issue at least be consistent about it. You're for some reason claiming the moral high ground today when in the past you've had no problems with it whatsoever.

One thing is playing down the careers of your opponent's players. That's fine. That's how drafts are supposed to go. But when you take a clear stance on a controversial debate one time and then completely backtrack the next you're being dishonest and going against the spirit of the draft. It's impossible to know what your actual thoughts on the matter are which ruins the premise of your argument.

I won't be making further posts in this thread until the final is over. I don't know about others but I play this as a fun past time. Winning or losing is irrelevant. But as soon as people start being dishonest and show double standards I'm out.

Good luck.

 

[crappycraperson]

Would not be a caf draft without any controversy or fight

 

[The Man Himself]

Embarrassing post. Try reading the writeup before going on pointless rants. Nowhere have I even mentioned that Bevan will bowl a single over for me. I haven't even listed up his bowling stats in my stats column. Apart from Sachin bowling 4-5 overs on the spinning tracks I don't need 'support acts' because I have picked a strong core of bowlers. Anyone relying on 3-4 different 'support acts' to bowl out 50 overs in an ODI is in serious trouble.

Yadav is playing one game. On a track that suits him perfectly. If you're going to make a point of his economy rate then I can counter with the high batting averages of Root and Babar. Or do all batsmen post 2010 suck because they have inflated averages and all the bowlers suck because they have high economy rates?

On one side you're pissing on a player because he has 'barely played 60 odd matches' and is 'not draft final worthy'. On the other you're pissing on a player with 330 matches and 10k+ runs because 'he's not draft final worthy'. 60 matches isn't enough. 330 matches isn't enough. Sound logic.

I don't get your obsession of constantly comparing Klusener, an allrounder averaging 40 with the bat, with outright bowlers who are tailenders. You were doing the same in the QF with Klusener and Johnson/Gillespie. You're doing the same now with Klusener vs Morkel. I actually can't figure out if you're trolling with these nonsense comparisons time after time or if you genuinely believe they're in any way or shape comparable. Morkel's direct comparison in this matchup is Donald. But obviously you don't want to make that comparison.

Try putting forward serious arguments rather than such petty ones. And no need to put words in others mouths. I won't be entertaining further posts like this one. Hopefully the others stick to actual arguments so we can get a constructive discussion here.

Each of my point is reply to your points raised in post I replied to. You claimed his support spinners are no match for Sachin and Bevan.If that was for these two as batsmen then it’s pointless as we are comparing Sachin vs Warne and if he is doing better there he is doing good overall. Randomly putting Bevan there doesn’t make sense as well in that regard. If a pitch is very spin friendly like #5 then spinners are going to bowl most and there Warne will be a different beast.

Mani’s team has all-rounder like Imran so I don’t need to compare Morkel to Donald. So I will compare the 4 bowlers with closest bowler of their ability from other side as we are comparing only bowling. If you only want player comparison then compare Klusener with Imran and then yours is worse in that department.
I said in my initial post that Morkel is not final worthy along with Gambhir but you get your knickers in twist when your players are called out for not final worthy. You are OK with calling other team’s players as non-entity when they score 97 in World Cup final but big up Dilshan on his performance in same World Cup. That’s what is embarrassing.

Quite rich of you to call others trolling when you come up with bullshit like Bevan is twice the player of Symonds. You come up with nonsense like Bond couldn’t play 5 matches in year but your main spinner is a chucker which is totally fine. Don’t lecture others when your own arguments are crap.

 

[Mani]

Okay...



I can't take your draft posts seriously with nonsense like this. If you want to take a stance on an issue at least be consistent about it. You're for some reason claiming the moral high ground today when in the past you've had no problems with it whatsoever.

One thing is playing down the careers of your opponent's players. That's fine. That's how drafts are supposed to go. But when you take a clear stance on a controversial debate one time and then completely backtrack the next you're being dishonest and going against the spirit of the draft. It's impossible to know what your actual thoughts on the matter are which ruins the premise of your argument.

I won't be making further posts in this thread until the final is over. I don't know about others but I play this as a fun past time. Winning or losing is irrelevant. But as soon as people start being dishonest and show double standards I'm out.

Good luck.

If some had brought this up in the past then you clearly know this would be brought by someone in future too if not me, you could have well avoided it in picking him,you pick someone with issues and can't keep caring on with him until the final. Is this in the right sprit of the draft? you had chance to replace him in multiple reinforcement where as you didn't.

 

[Moby]

Cricket drafts are fecking toxic.

 

[Himannv]

Then we are left with Imran+Bond+Marshall against Donald, Starc and McGrath. So yeah, not equal his looks better due to Klusener vs Morkel.

McGrath+Starc+Donald is a much better pace attack than Imran+Bond+Marshall. Marshall is a very ordinary bowler in ODIs and I don't believe this is Imran's ideal format as well. Bond is, of course, a good ODI bowler. McGrath and Starc are ideally suited to this format and Donald is a very good first change ODI bowler.

Not trying to diss @Mani's team, I think he wins this tie, but he wins this due to his batting, not his bowling, which is not good enough for a final in my view.

 

[The Man Himself]

McGrath+Starc+Donald is a much better pace attack than Imran+Bond+Marshall. Marshall is a very ordinary bowler in ODIs and I don't believe this is Imran's ideal format as well. Bond is, of course, a good ODI bowler. McGrath and Starc are ideally suited to this format and Donald is a very good first change ODI bowler.

Not trying to diss @Mani's team, I think he wins this tie, but he wins this due to his batting, not his bowling, which is not good enough for a final in my view.

I agree that achievements of McGrath and Donald are better than Marshall and Imran however the complexity in this draft I see with just usual ODI record is we have two pitch descriptions which we don’t usually find in ODIs. If there is a pitch where batsmen have to really dig deep to score and there is plenty of joy for pacers then on such pitch the damage Marshall can do will not be any less.

I too see problems in Mani’s bowling in sense that they statistically aren’t really the best ODI bowlers and it was just ODI match without pitch descriptions I would have rated less but on pitches where there is support they can become deadly. Here the batting strength you mention also comes up because if on some pitch a bowling unit can run through middle order of Viv, AB and MSD then Azam, Root and Butler are going to do worse.