Cristiano Ronaldo - Much Ado About Al Nassr

tomaldinho1

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Rig it so that it fails to accept your choice nine times in a row, and then on the tenth attempt it picks the wrong option.
To keep them engaged, I like it.
Every week have a bot post something controversial like 'Ronaldo goals per game superior to Messi' then next week post 'World Cup or Carabao Cup, which is better' with it getting more and more abstract, 'did Messi's use of growth hormone give him a competitive advantage or did Ronaldo's willy botox cover up steroid use?', until even the most die hard posters give up.
 

Mr Pigeon

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To keep them engaged, I like it.
Every week have a bot post something controversial like 'Ronaldo goals per game superior to Messi' then next week post 'World Cup or Carabao Cup, which is better' with it getting more and more abstract, 'did Messi's use of growth hormone give him a competitive advantage or did Ronaldo's willy botox cover up steroid use?', until even the most die hard posters give up.
:lol: I like this strategy
 

Samid

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a header and two weaker footed finishes. also known as “the perfect hat trick.” take that, messi fanboys.
When did that garden gnome ever do anything like this?


Even the ref is in awe.

 

cyberman

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How the feck are we going to partition Ronaldos goal record? He could score every kind of goal on this league until he’s 50.
 

tomaldinho1

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Not going to lie, getting kippered by an elástico from a 50 year old has got to hurt.
 

Morty_

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Who cares? I'd say the same about Messi in America, both of these leagues are glorified friendlies.
 

rimaldo

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When did that garden gnome ever do anything like this?

and to think, just hours earlier, that defender was finishing up the last of his fedex deliveries and heading to the stadium.

Even the ref is in awe.

ronaldo’s going to be pissed when he uses the camera feature on his translation app to see “messi is better. two of those goals were offside, but i lose a hand if i whistle” written on the ball.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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What's the argument for Maradona being above Cristiano? He doesn't have a single thing over him except a better performance in the worldcup. Maradona was inferior to Cristiano in:
European football
Domestic football
Prime
Peak (Seven games isn't acceptable size for gauging peak performance)
Longevity
You're posting that on the back of team based achivements.

And no CR7's peak isn't better than Maradona. It's probably not even a top 5 peak in football much less better than someone who likely had the best peak in football.

Besides running faster and jumping higher, there's probably nothing Ronaldo does better than Maradona on the field.
 

marktan

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You're posting that on the back of team based achivements.

And no CR7's peak isn't better than Maradona. It's probably not even a top 5 peak in football much less better than someone who likely had the best peak in football.

Besides running faster and jumping higher, there's probably nothing Ronaldo does better than Maradona on the field.
Ronaldo would look like a greek god playing against the defences Maradonna played against. The dope lord was great but against modern defences he'd look like Bernado Silva.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Ronaldo would look like a greek god playing against the defences Maradonna played against. The dope lord was great but against modern defences he'd look like Bernado Silva.
The defenses that had better players then?

And the same defenses that could maul players on the field and not get sent off?


Most of those fouls weren't even yellow card offenses then.

This is Milan's back 4 from the '90 EC final vs Barcelona



That's better than any back 4 Ronaldo went up against.

"The best I ever played against was Maradona." -- Former AC Milan and Italy defender Paolo Maldini.

"Maradona. When he was on form, there was almost no way of stopping him." -- Former AC Milan and Italy defender Franco Baresi, when asked who was the best player he faced.

2 of the best defenders ever praised him to no end, but you think he was playing vs amateurs....

And you thinking Maradona today would be the equivalent of B.Silva is egregious. Nonsensical stuff.
 

Vidyoyo

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The defenses that had better players then?

And the same defenses that could maul players on the field and not get sent off?


Most of those fouls weren't even yellow card offenses then.

This is Milan's back 4 from the '90 EC final vs Barcelona



That's better than any back 4 Ronaldo went up against.

"The best I ever played against was Maradona." -- Former AC Milan and Italy defender Paolo Maldini.

"Maradona. When he was on form, there was almost no way of stopping him." -- Former AC Milan and Italy defender Franco Baresi, when asked who was the best player he faced.

2 of the best defenders ever praised him to no end, but you think he was playing vs amateurs....

And you thinking Maradona today would be the equivalent of B.Silva is egregious. Nonsensical stuff.
cheers for the reminder that Maradona didn't play in that final

I jest
 
Last edited:

CrockedRain

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You're posting that on the back of team based achivements.

And no CR7's peak isn't better than Maradona. It's probably not even a top 5 peak in football much less better than someone who likely had the best peak in football.

Besides running faster and jumping higher, there's probably nothing Ronaldo does better than Maradona on the field.
I'll reply to you only and ignore the other useless replies.

"You're posting that on the back of team based achivements"

I'm not, I'm posting on the back of relative domination, All things considered. Maradona wasn't as dominant as Cristiano was, In fact, There are serious arguments to be made that Maradona got outperformed by his own teammate, Bagni, For a considerable amount of time during Maradona's PRIME. Something like this could never happen to Prime Cristiano, During the early-mid 2010s he provided generational all round performances every single season and it was inconceivable not only that a teammate could outperform him for the duration of league season, But *any player in europe not named Leo Messi* could come close, With Maradona this definitely wasn't the case. Some arguments you might make:
-Napoli wasn't as good as Madrid
-Serie A was harder
-Maradona improved Napoli more than Ronaldo improved Madrid
-Eye test

1.Yes, But if you make that argument you should make the argument in favour of Cristiano playing for Portugal, The only ATG player that had to face teams above his NT ELO ratings on consistent basis, Based on difficulty level an argument could be made that for Cristiano to perform against Sweden/Czech Republic etc was as hard as it was for Maradona to perform against Germany, Italy or Brazil. Also, Madrid wasn't a european powerhouse circa 2008-2009, It was a dark era in the club, Full of managers rotation, Inefficient transfers and overall failure on the european stage.
2.Seria A golden era only started during the very late 80s, Period in which Maradona declined athletically. According to ELO ranking it was the 3rd best league in the world when prime Maradona was active, In Cristiano case he played in the best league in the world *In every single season during his prime*, Add that to the difficulty considerations too.
3.Questionable at best, Cristiano raised the floor significantly, Increased the goal output of Madrid by over 50%, Increased LaLiga points tally by almost 20-30% on average and on the contribution in the Champions League i shouldn't even elaborate, Cristiano surpassed Maradona's international club career by the time he was 24.
4.Maradona played the beautiful game as good as any, But that's a very subjective take, And in order to even have the possibility of a discussion we must account of "eye test" as a component rather than a decider, Even if you strongly dislike Cristiano playstyle (Something that hundreds of millions of fans and footballers who modelled their game after him will strongly disagree).

On prime/peak, What do you consider Maradona prime and peak and how could they stand against 2010-2014 Cristiano? In terms of performance, stats, impact, influence and overall capabilities as a player? To me no stretch of 5 seasons is equal to what Cristiano produced during the early 2010s, Peak is more debatable, Especially from pure ability perspective, But if we account all the things that make a player great (Or a season), The things i listed above, I doubt Maradona best season or two can match Cristiano best. And can you list the other 5 peaks you consider better? Which players were able to combined ATG level goalscoring+assist output, Be the most decisive player itw and combine it with elite build-up and wing (Or 10) play? Messi and Pele are the only ones i can think of, Cruyff is a possibility for one season only (1973/74). For the rest you'll have a very hard time providing a reasonable argument.

Maradona is the most flawed ATG, The only one that we need to redefine how we approach that discussions to begin with, It could be because his natural talent was the best we've ever seen and we need to rationalize everything around it, But it could be because people are caught up in certain narratives that barely had any connection with how history really unfolded. I guarantee you that if people made a rigorous assessment of Maradona's career as much as they do with Cristiano (Or Messi) his narrative as "permanent top 2-4 ATG" will weaken significantly.


Trying to be fair Messi,Maradona and pele definitely had better peaks.

Same could be said about the rotund Brazilian and cryuff, zico, platini and possibly Beckenbauer, Muller and van Basten.

I have no idea how good di estefano or puskas were so I left them out.

All in all 5 players definitely had better peaks than him, the number could rise but it becomes a bit subjective, what pushes Ronaldo over the edge in all time rankings is his longevity and his clutchness, the latter he developed at Madrid.

The

Muller and MVB were nowhere near peak Cristiano level, This is outrageous take.
Beckenbauer is invalid comparison.
Platini wasn't as capable player as Cristiano. Zico was a very capable player but he played his best years in south america, The level of competition was way way lower (He also was notorious statpadder against the worst teams in Brazil).
Brazilian Ronaldo was not on peak Cristiano level, I elaborated on that months ago and have no interest in continuing that discussion again. But that one isn't that absurd of a take so fair enough.
Di Stefano and Puskas played in 3.5 GPG era, Both numbers peaked when they were in their deep 30s so that should tell you something about the difficulty level.
Cruyff and Maradona are debatable, I can make a better case for Cruyff than Maradona to be honest.
 
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marktan

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The defenses that had better players then?

And the same defenses that could maul players on the field and not get sent off?


Most of those fouls weren't even yellow card offenses then.

This is Milan's back 4 from the '90 EC final vs Barcelona



That's better than any back 4 Ronaldo went up against.

"The best I ever played against was Maradona." -- Former AC Milan and Italy defender Paolo Maldini.

"Maradona. When he was on form, there was almost no way of stopping him." -- Former AC Milan and Italy defender Franco Baresi, when asked who was the best player he faced.

2 of the best defenders ever praised him to no end, but you think he was playing vs amateurs....

And you thinking Maradona today would be the equivalent of B.Silva is egregious. Nonsensical stuff.
A one off game. The standard of football is way better now.

In all seriousness though I'm not being serious, I rate Maradonna highly too. Probably best ever with Messi. But saying there's 5 players better than CR7 is doing a disservice to how good the man was at his peak. I get people have very subjective opinions when it comes to Messi and Ronaldo though.
 

Red the Bear

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Maradona being as good as Bernardo Silva is certainly a take i didn’t expect.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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A one off game. The standard of football is way better now.

In all seriousness though I'm not being serious, I rate Maradonna highly too. Probably best ever with Messi. But saying there's 5 players better than CR7 is doing a disservice to how good the man was at his peak. I get people have very subjective opinions when it comes to Messi and Ronaldo though.
At their best? Not really a disservice when there's plenty of great players in history.
 

Red the Bear

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A one off game. The standard of football is way better now.

In all seriousness though I'm not being serious, I rate Maradonna highly too. Probably best ever with Messi. But saying there's 5 players better than CR7 is doing a disservice to how good the man was at his peak. I get people have very subjective opinions when it comes to Messi and Ronaldo though.
Trying to be fair Messi,Maradona and pele definitely had better peaks.

Same could be said about the rotund Brazilian and cryuff, zico, platini and possibly Beckenbauer, Muller and van Basten.

I have no idea how good di estefano or puskas were so I left them out.

All in all 5 players definitely had better peaks than him, the number could rise but it becomes a bit subjective, what pushes Ronaldo over the edge in all time rankings is his longevity and his clutchness, the latter he developed at Madrid.

The
 

Camara

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Trying to be fair Messi,Maradona and pele definitely had better peaks.

Same could be said about the rotund Brazilian and cryuff, zico, platini and possibly Beckenbauer, Muller and van Basten.

I have no idea how good di estefano or puskas were so I left them out.

All in all 5 players definitely had better peaks than him, the number could rise but it becomes a bit subjective, what pushes Ronaldo over the edge in all time rankings is his longevity and his clutchness, the latter he developed at Madrid.

The
Why isn't his 16/17 campaign with Real for example in the CL as peak as Messi's, Maradona's or Pelé's.
Honestly I find the underrating of him baffling.
 

Plastic Evra

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Reading this thread makes me wonder if Ronaldo could have been of service for United even in his later years. We'll never know after he decided to move from Juve to Saudi Arabia !
 

Acrobat7

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Reading this thread makes me wonder if Ronaldo could have been of service for United even in his later years. We'll never know after he decided to move from Juve to Saudi Arabia South Africa!
fixed it
 

RedRonaldo

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Already 28 goals in 32 games in 2023. Not many 38 years old could score that many.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Why isn't his 16/17 campaign with Real for example in the CL as peak as Messi's, Maradona's or Pelé's.
Honestly I find the underrating of him baffling.
Because while I actually consider that season his best, he's purely an amazing goal-scorer. His dribbling is much worse than it was 5-6 years ago and he's nowhere near the playmaker Messi, Maradona nor Pele are.

He's purely a penalty box player during that campaign. Why would it be better than the other 3 peaks when they offer far more on the field covering a wider coverage of the field itself? And in Pele and Messi's case, they can match Ronaldo's sheer goal-scoring output.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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I'll reply to you only and ignore the other useless replies.

"You're posting that on the back of team based achivements"

I'm not, I'm posting on the back of relative domination, All things considered. Maradona wasn't as dominant as Cristiano was, In fact, There are serious arguments to be made that Maradona got outperformed by his own teammate, Bagni, For a considerable amount of time during Maradona's PRIME. Something like this could never happen to Prime Cristiano, During the early-mid 2010s he provided generational all round performances every single season and it was inconceivable not only that a teammate could outperform him for the duration of league season, But *any player in europe not named Leo Messi* could come close, With Maradona this definitely wasn't the case. Some arguments you might make:
-Napoli wasn't as good as Madrid
-Serie A was harder
-Maradona improved Napoli more than Ronaldo improved Madrid
-Eye test

1.Yes, But if you make that argument you should make the argument in favour of Cristiano playing for Portugal, The only ATG player that had to face teams above his NT ELO ratings on consistent basis, Based on difficulty level an argument could be made that for Cristiano to perform against Sweden/Czech Republic etc was as hard as it was for Maradona to perform against Germany, Italy or Brazil. Also, Madrid wasn't a european powerhouse circa 2008-2009, It was a dark era in the club, Full of managers rotation, Inefficient transfers and overall failure on the european stage.
2.Seria A golden era only started during the very late 80s, Period in which Maradona declined athletically. According to ELO ranking it was the 3rd best league in the world when prime Maradona was active, In Cristiano case he played in the best league in the world *In every single season during his prime*, Add that to the difficulty considerations too.
3.Questionable at best, Cristiano raised the floor significantly, Increased the goal output of Madrid by over 50%, Increased LaLiga points tally by almost 20-30% on average and on the contribution in the Champions League i shouldn't even elaborate, Cristiano surpassed Maradona's international club career by the time he was 24.
4.Maradona played the beautiful game as good as any, But that's a very subjective take, And in order to even have the possibility of a discussion we must account of "eye test" as a component rather than a decider, Even if you strongly dislike Cristiano playstyle (Something that hundreds of millions of fans and footballers who modelled their game after him will strongly disagree).

On prime/peak, What do you consider Maradona prime and peak and how could they stand against 2010-2014 Cristiano? In terms of performance, stats, impact, influence and overall capabilities as a player? To me no stretch of 5 seasons is equal to what Cristiano produced during the early 2010s, Peak is more debatable, Especially from pure ability perspective, But if we account all the things that make a player great (Or a season), The things i listed above, I doubt Maradona best season or two can match Cristiano best. And can you list the other 5 peaks you consider better? Which players were able to combined ATG level goalscoring+assist output, Be the most decisive player itw and combine it with elite build-up and wing (Or 10) play? Messi and Pele are the only ones i can think of, Cruyff is a possibility for one season only (1973/74). For the rest you'll have a very hard time providing a reasonable argument.

Maradona is the most flawed ATG, The only one that we need to redefine how we approach that discussions to begin with, It could be because his natural talent was the best we've ever seen and we need to rationalize everything around it, But it could be because people are caught up in certain narratives that barely had any connection with how history really unfolded. I guarantee you that if people made a rigorous assessment of Maradona's career as much as they do with Cristiano (Or Messi) his narrative as "permanent top 2-4 ATG" will weaken significantly.





Muller and MVB were nowhere near peak Cristiano level, This is outrageous take.
Beckenbauer is invalid comparison.
Platini wasn't as capable player as Cristiano. Zico was a very capable player but he played his best years in south america, The level of competition was way way lower (He also was notorious statpadder against the worst teams in Brazil).
Brazilian Ronaldo was not on peak Cristiano level, I elaborated on that months ago and have no interest in continuing that discussion again. But that one isn't that absurd of a take so fair enough.
Di Stefano and Puskas played in 3.5 GPG era, Both numbers peaked when they were in their deep 30s so that should tell you something about the difficulty level.
Cruyff and Maradona are debatable, I can make a better case for Cruyff than Maradona to be honest.
You wrote all of that and refused to answer what Ronaldo does on the field better than Maradona besides running faster and jumping higher.
 

Camara

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Because while I actually consider that season his best, he's purely an amazing goal-scorer. His dribbling is much worse than it was 5-6 years ago and he's nowhere near the playmaker Messi, Maradona nor Pele are.

He's purely a penalty box player during that campaign. Why would it be better than the other 3 peaks when they offer far more on the field covering a wider coverage of the field itself? And in Pele and Messi's case, they can match Ronaldo's sheer goal-scoring output.
If you think playmaking is a much more important part of the definition of peak then why doesn't Ronaldo's 2008 season rank higher for you?
Also why would you also say then that Muller had also a higher peak than him?

He was not a pure penalty box player in that time, that's absurd and a myth that continues. In any case let's assume he was, in that case he was so good at that that he brute forced through some of the best defences in the world and had outputs equaling what Maradona, Messi and Pelé could do with all their all around playmaking and scoring. Basically his scoring ability was so good, the peak was so high, that he didn't need to do anything else, that was enough to break even the best defenses of the world. Isn't this a comparable peak?
 

marktan

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Because while I actually consider that season his best, he's purely an amazing goal-scorer. His dribbling is much worse than it was 5-6 years ago and he's nowhere near the playmaker Messi, Maradona nor Pele are.

He's purely a penalty box player during that campaign. Why would it be better than the other 3 peaks when they offer far more on the field covering a wider coverage of the field itself? And in Pele and Messi's case, they can match Ronaldo's sheer goal-scoring output.
For me his peak was 06-08. Dribbling past people for fun and scoring for fun. E.g. that 7-1 game against Roma he made them look like Sunday league players. That match alone was as good as anything Nazario did.

The fact people put him on a tier with Beckenbauer, Muller and van Basten boggles my mind. People see the 30 year old goal scoring Ronaldo because he was still great then and forget how good he was at 22.
 

Camara

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You wrote all of that and refused to answer what Ronaldo does on the field better than Maradona besides running faster and jumping higher.
I can answer for him if you want: Ronaldo had better off the ball movement, shot power, better weaker foot, better heading accuracy and offensive positioning in the area.

Maradona was almost unplayable with his dribbling, vision and passing.
Ronaldo was almost unplayable with his ability of being good at pretty much everything (even if maybe being only a GOATesque level in heading and off the ball movement). You don't know how to defend him when he could dribble you, run past you, shoot outside the area, wait and jump over you in a cross or just lose him for a second when not in possession then he already got in place to finish before you can react).
 

Halftrack

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Already 28 goals in 32 games in 2023. Not many 38 years old could score that many.
I'm guessing most 38 year old semi-retired CL-quality strikers could score that many if all the games they play have the intensity of a friendly.
 

heraklion

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Why isn't his 16/17 campaign with Real for example in the CL as peak as Messi's, Maradona's or Pelé's.
Honestly I find the underrating of him baffling.
How can it be comparable to others peak' when even at your peak your playmaking, dribbling, passing is inferior to not only top3 above but also many others such as Zidane, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Platini, Cruyff? His peak is mostly about GOAT level goal scoring and that's where it ends.
 

heraklion

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I'm guessing most 38 year old semi-retired CL-quality strikers could score that many if all the games they play have the intensity of a friendly.
Especially when they are accompanied by players such as 2022 Ballon D'or 2nd Mane, Serie A best midfielder Brozovic, Laporte etc,
 

heraklion

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I can answer for him if you want: Ronaldo had better off the ball movement, shot power, better weaker foot, better heading accuracy and offensive positioning in the area.

Maradona was almost unplayable with his dribbling, vision and passing.
Ronaldo was almost unplayable with his ability of being good at pretty much everything (even if maybe being only a GOATesque level in heading and off the ball movement). You don't know how to defend him when he could dribble you, run past you, shoot outside the area, wait and jump over you in a cross or just lose him for a second when not in possession then he already got in place to finish before you can react).
There's a reason why Maradona, Cruyff, Zidane, Platini, Rivaldo, Zico, Messi, Pele, Modric are all comparable to each other and seen as among the greatest ever that's because in football playmaking, creativity, passing, dribbling are seen as among the most attractive qualities in addition to goal scoring. Shot power, weaker foot, heading accuracy are all minor sub-categories, what does GOATesque heading mean))? Who cares?

Imagine equating playmaking with heading)) not comparable to major categories I listed. You can find tens of players equal to Zidane's playmaking then with so-called "GOATesque heading" if we refer to your logic)) It is like listing through balls, long balls as seperate major categories for Pele, Maradona etc.. Ronaldo is not comparable to any other in those major categories..