no worries..
Cristiano Ronaldo - Much Ado About Al Nassr
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
His World Cup record is so poor I'm not sure where to rank him in history. Even if he didn't win it, he never had a great run in the world cup where the carried his team far deep into tournament (eg reached the final or semis). Or won something like the golden boot, best player, most assists. He did make the semis in 2006 as a promising future star but he wasn't the main star or anything. But that team had established legends Figo, Deco, Carvalho...
Portugal has good enough quality to have done something noteworthy in the WC. Cruyff, Puskas, Eusebio are all legends with star performances. Even players in recent years such as Modric, Forlan, Kane, James Rodriguez, Robben did great things for their country in the WC. What's CR7s excuse? His greatest WC moment is scoring a hat trick in the group stages for a draw.
If it weren't for Portugal's fortunate 2016 euro win where he had some good moments but still wasn't a star and didn't play in the final, his legacy would be very questionable. Perhaps only known as a club only football legend like Di Stefano.
Portugal has good enough quality to have done something noteworthy in the WC. Cruyff, Puskas, Eusebio are all legends with star performances. Even players in recent years such as Modric, Forlan, Kane, James Rodriguez, Robben did great things for their country in the WC. What's CR7s excuse? His greatest WC moment is scoring a hat trick in the group stages for a draw.
If it weren't for Portugal's fortunate 2016 euro win where he had some good moments but still wasn't a star and didn't play in the final, his legacy would be very questionable. Perhaps only known as a club only football legend like Di Stefano.
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The reason being that most of the posters on here didn’t see Müller live. Müller’s record with the national team is completely insane. And keep in mind that they weren’t playing Gibraltar and San Marino.
It is also sad that he is often being reduced to a poacher.
That is true. My point though was Muller isn't in GOAT debates(despite his excellence in goal-scoring), because Pele, Maradona and Messi are simply better footballers than him.
I mean, wouldn't you agree this is a pretty big deal?
There's probably not a single thing Ronaldo can do better than Maradona on the ball(except for hitting the ball harder which might not matter much in the grand scheme of things).
Most poster here didnt see Pelé, Maradonna, Beckenbaur or George bes live either. I agree with you though.
Well I didn’t say it wasn’t. See I used to be big fan of Maradona back in the days. But just saying there are other qualities Ronaldo being better which also matters. The same qualities which enables him having GOAT kind of career, and I think that’s the ultimate goal which inspires plenty of other top players in the game (ie Mbappé Haaland)
Oh, I absolutely agree with you. You listed the reasons why Ronaldo isn’t on my top tier, which consists of the 3 players you mentioned.
Where are people getting this assumption the WC is the pinnacle of football in terms of quality? I fecking love it because it only happens every 4 years but international football never seems to be held up to the same regard during any other debate.
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International football may be lower quality but it puts players in a situation where they have to play outside their comfort zone with from their own country only (not players and also coaches they train with every day like they do with club football) and only see a few times a year.
Therefore players who perform internationally as well as club football deserve extra praise.
It is the most prestigious tournament in the football world without a doubt..
When you think about top players career achievements, the first thing that comes to mind is almost always s their iconic world cup moments & performance. Think about Maradona, Pele, Zidane, R9, Cruyff, Messi, Beckenbauer, Muller, Eusebio, Romario, Baggio, Modric etc.. Most people also will first remember EC 84 & 88, both NT tournaments & their amazing performances when thinking about Platini and Van Basten first..
That's a solid point to be honest and one I'll try to consider from now on.
A goal ruled out as well
Scored his 30 goals in 2023.
Was watching some of his highlights from 2015. His dribbling ability had gone by then but it's crazy just how good he was in front of goal. Made everything look easy. Very few strikers manage that.
The fact at one point he could dribble past players and still finish the way he did is what makes him so good.
The fact at one point he could dribble past players and still finish the way he did is what makes him so good.
He's gonna want that Romario record
EDIT: Apparently he's got it. Didn't know.
EDIT: Apparently he's got it. Didn't know.
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Oh, classic: Ronaldo and Messi became the best of all time at everything they're good at...
Young football fans are SO annoying.
He was a consistently great dribbler until 2010. He had some great dribbling moments later, but these were esporadic. He never combined his best dribbling ability(which clearly reach its peak in 2006/2007) with world class goalscoring; the closest to that was in 2009/2010.
You're right. His best dribbling was indeed in 05-07. Still it's pretty rare to see a player be world class at both at different stages. It's like if Nani one day decided he wanted to Morph into Lewandowski or Suarez.
I agree that Portugal had a more than enough sellection of names to win a WC or to be a contender, it's one of the best producers of extraordinary players ever, but WCs it's a very timing (and even luck, for lack of a better word) related competition and also more than mere names, you need a team for those 7 games, with these you'll compete, With names, no matter how great those can be, you won't.
Has been this way since ever and the Cup has even "made" fail incredible teams that also had lots of names. Finally the thing has a very romantic notion even these days that is quite far fetched from actually being the ultimate thing regarding "proving your talent or legacy", yet we can't fight our very own emotions and even illogical value when comes to it.
PD: Just to clarify, Alfredo just couldn't play it, it's not like he had bad tournaments or such...as a side note he won the only Copa America he played, where he also scored 6 goals.
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It's not rare at all specially among the suppose goats and those silly tags we tend to use.
Cristiano was always very good to great dribbler in ocassions, yet not exactly on the very top regarding such thing more in a historical sense and even in comparison to lesser players as a whole than him, less with similar caliber phenoms were he belongs.
Yet he had phenomenal pace that in lots of situations he was devastating.
Your welcome, I'm far from a troll.
I didn't limit him to be just a goalscorer (Batistuta for instance), but he was indeed mainly a forward. Being a forward doesn't mean BTW that you won't contribute in other tasks as for instance assist or sometimes hold the ball, start a play or manage a counter, etc...Luis Suarez in this period it's another fella that also had a full array of involvement in such tasks, and fellas in the past like Eusebio, Pele or Puskas too and some of them had more traits in their bag to pull out other offensive roles.
As a whole in his carreer he had a very focus point in scoring, more when he realized that there was his forte. I remember R9 switching to the same due to injuries and his own guilt with lack of fitness during his carreer. In case of Cristiano was more related to adapting to his best weapons, style of his team and enviroment of the League he was involved at a certain moment.
At the end of the day many would say shyte just for saying shyte, in fact in a strict stats sense R9 and Diego had more than probably a bigger ratio of penalties scored among their overal total goals, I can't bet on that, but I'm pretty fecking sure taht at least they will be close.
The thing is that there are nuances, attitudes that Cristiano himself sadly did to help to in some cases distort his view on him or better said opened the door to make silly (even if some might have some truth on it) or even false remarks on him, yet at the same time not few times his attitude and even at some point distort view of himself made him waht he was and still is, so it comes with the package.
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Well I’d say dribbling is just one part of his game (most aesthetic part) where has peaked in his early career (03-07).
His all round game actually reached its highest performance peak during 08-14 in terms of striking perfect balance of pace, strength, athleticism, finishing, heading, trickery, technique, long range shots, freekicks, creativity, threats, efficiency/productivity. His dribbling did regress bit by bit gradually over same period though, as he loss some of his his agility when he turned more into more muscular build, while focusing more on end products.
It’s just that post 2015 he turned into more of pure world class goalscorer/clutch player which coincide with his most successful period.
To each to its own, but I Beg to differ about dribbling his more aesthetic part of his game, on contrair his headers are trully outstanding (even beyond outstanding), a thing of beauty and the way he strikes the ball mostly in motion too is very aesthetic...regarding free kicks he kind of got a bit obssesed with his singular way of strike it, that made him fail too many free kicks, yet indeed when he nails it its really aesthetic too.
But his dribbling is a bit ackward, because he is a bit stiff in general (thsi doesn't means that he didn't pull off some really beautiful moves of course) but I always felt that he tries to hard and lacks balance.
Also he has a tendency to show off without even moving or with a defender not even near or not even bothered or buying whatevr he is doing in too many ocasions, that looks quite silly for such a phenomenal player, but I think it's due to his constant battle to whatever is said about him, even if its nonsense.
His better dribblings are almost always when he is at the edge of the rival's area, when scoring is the objective, he has a some goals at such instances that are superb, things of beauty. Is a question of pulling out a fast manouver and strike before loosing control and balance.
When he has to dribble in bigger distances he tends to loose focus and balance, unless it's with more space were he uses a great long stride and pace (Bale had a similar style in such ocassions).
That's fair enough. I mean some of his earlier moves or stepovers were electrifying to watch, although it often lacks purpose and he wasn't really a very effective dribbler like Messi, or as smooth/aesthetically pleasing as someone like Ronaldinho. But there's always something very exciting in the crowd whenever he was running at full speed from the flanks or counter attack move, did some flick and tricks for pure entertainment, or sometimes does a Ronaldo chop, cut in and shoot.
Or else I'd argue his most aesthetic part of his game was his long range knuckleball shots or freekicks. It was really something very special back then.
I always thought his passing was excelent as well, and with great technique, good accuracy, and could put a ball anywere on the field in almost any situation - versatility. Some of my favorite compilations from Ronaldo are passing compilations.
Intelligent post and factual. This is the problem that Ronaldo has. People like to blame the fact that he plays for Portugal, but fail to explain how this stops him from actually performing well at a World Cup. 5 tournaments, no goals or assists in the KO stages, no golden boot, silver boot or bronze boot, no golden ball, silver ball or bronze ball. Meanwhile, Eusebio, who also played for Portugal (supposedly a massive hindrance to doing well at the World Cup), played in only one tournament and won the Golden boot, scoring more goals in that one competition than Ronaldo has managed in 5. There's no excuse, he's been a failure in that competition, the most prestigious and storied in football.
Matt Le Tissier
Looking very sharp this season, another goal and 2 assists again. Overall 12 goals 5 assists in 11 games this season already. Most productive player in the “other side” of the world right now?
Cristiano: "Those that like me don't need to hate Messi, and vice versa. We both made history and changed the course of football, and we we've both been doing well [in MLS and Saudi Pro League], and we're respected throughout the entire world. There was a rivalry, there's no rivalry anymore, the fans loved it, but from our own perspective, it was always an healthy, respectful rivalry"
Source, translated by me: https://tvi.iol.pt/noticias/videos/...o-messi-e-vice-versa/64f8a92b0cf23250d7066a99
If only more people took it upon themselves to discuss both players fairly and with some rationale behind them. Don't wanna stir up more wildfires, but I subscribe to his words and wanted to share it here.
Source, translated by me: https://tvi.iol.pt/noticias/videos/...o-messi-e-vice-versa/64f8a92b0cf23250d7066a99
If only more people took it upon themselves to discuss both players fairly and with some rationale behind them. Don't wanna stir up more wildfires, but I subscribe to his words and wanted to share it here.
Thank you for translating, did he mention anything about Messi winning the World Cup? I don’t expect him to, he may not have even asked but just curious.
thanks again
I wasn't able to hear the question in the video - probably the question was orientated to the different choices both made with their current leagues.
Rich of him to say about himself “respected throughout the entire world”
Eh, it's a general statement that has a context to it. Doesn't seem out of reach, but then again, it may be a problem for some people because it was said by someone who has the name Cristiano and the surname Ronaldo.
There was only ever a rivalry in Ronaldos eyes where he tried to prove he was better. I doubt Messi thought about a rivalry, he just did his own thing and in the end to the vast majority of football fans he was obviously much better in all ways, such a magical player.
Jesus Christ…just found out that he has more assists than Xavi, De Bruyne, and Ozil.
They played for Madrid and Barca in their prime, one of the biggest rivalries simply from the team they were on. They were the only two competing for the league , cups, Balon D Or, pichcihi, CL...of course they were in rivalry.
I think a lot of this stems from it being a number of years since the two were in the league together. Loss of memory and what was a wonderful time for football fans.
Before this previous world cup, Messi had no knockout goals in the world cup too despite featuring alongside world class attackers.
Its simple. Great football teams are about a lot of things. You could parade a good team and not have a good coach and vice versa.
Argentina was so solid recently that playing through them was a difficult task. They dont have as many illustrious names like the past but they simply work better as a unit.
Portugal has almost never had a really world class team after 2006. Most of their squad after then were mostly washed players.
They finally had an actually great team in 2022 but Ronaldo is too old to stand out now.
I doubt anyone believes Ronaldo Wouldnt have had outstanding world cups in teams like Spain or Germany.
Summarily, it's nearly rude to shit on his legacy for a world cup even Messi nearly missed out on.