I think you can argue 2006-2007.
But I'd take pretty much all of his Real seasons over those 2 United seasons.
He improved as a player when he left us.
Cristiano Ronaldo should go down as top 5-6 players of all time
- Thread starter Interval
- Start date
But I'd take pretty much all of his Real seasons over those 2 United seasons.
He improved as a player when he left us.
Yeah I agree. And the funny thing is, it seems like people only realized that he was going to be something very special around 2007.
I think at Sporting Quaresma was rated higher than him and in his first two or three United seasons Ronaldo was viewed as more of a skilled winger than someone who had the ability to be an all time great.
There's players that burst into the scene and you just know what they're going to be. The first Ronaldo is probably an example of this. But CR7, it took a while for people to realize it.
The turning point was towards the end of the 05/06 season and WC2006. He matured tremendously as a footballer in that period. He improved his decision-making and was alot stronger on the ball. Those who watched him at the WC knew he was going to have a great season for us in 06/07.
Pele and Maradona are way above Messi due to the way they performed at a World Cup. And CR7 is also greater cause he has won a Euro.
I'd even put Cruyff and perhaps even Di Stefano above Messi
I'd even put Piojo López and perhaps Dzeko above Messi.
Yeah, mine is similar.
1- Messi
2 - Pele
3 - Maradona/CR7
Then you get the other geniuses like Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Xavi, Iniesta etc.
1.Maradona
2.Pele
3.Messi
4.Ronaldo
5.Brian McClair
2.Pele
3.Messi
4.Ronaldo
5.Brian McClair
Was that when he started putting on more muscle ? In his first season with us he used to get kicked alot and fell down more often.
Unfortunately all the muscle mass took away some of the skills he used to show for us, but it probably was necessary to become a consistent scorer
Muscle didn’t have anything to do with his performances. He just added end product to his dribbling and stopped being over-elaborate with the ball.
my top 5 would be
1. Ronaldo (Brazil)
2. Ronaldinho
3. Messi
4. Ronaldo (Portugal)
5. Kaka
never seen Maradona, Pele, Best, Cruyff play so have just went for players i have seen. Ronaldo the best out the lot for me, had everything, played against some of the best defenders as well, Ronaldinho and Messi were just a joy to watch, Ronaldo at United was the same but changed his game at Madrid and become more a goalscorer, still scored some stunning goals, Kaka might be the most graceful player i have ever seen. could easily understand arguments for any order depending on what people's criteria is.
1. Ronaldo (Brazil)
2. Ronaldinho
3. Messi
4. Ronaldo (Portugal)
5. Kaka
never seen Maradona, Pele, Best, Cruyff play so have just went for players i have seen. Ronaldo the best out the lot for me, had everything, played against some of the best defenders as well, Ronaldinho and Messi were just a joy to watch, Ronaldo at United was the same but changed his game at Madrid and become more a goalscorer, still scored some stunning goals, Kaka might be the most graceful player i have ever seen. could easily understand arguments for any order depending on what people's criteria is.
brain dead take
It’s a myth that Ronaldo suddenly gained lots of muscle at United.
Messi undeservedly won 1-2 Balon d'ors that's not even up for argument. Sneijder was clearly robbed of one. Remove that and we have CR7 and Messi both on same number of Balon D'ors and CR7 winning a significant international competition too.
The four all time greats are now Maradona, Pele, CR7 and Messi - in any order. If Messi wins anything of note internationally, he will be the all time greatest.
Id have to agree with this, I think it’s obvious these four are the greatest ever four players. R9 would be the 5th choice for me but those 4 are clearly in a league of their own, any attempt to order them would just be completely subjective.
Not even up for argument because snk123 said so? Obviously there is an argument for and against that,hence there are votes for and against. But according to snk123 and the hordes of cr7 50cents army, their opinions are facts
Ok but why do you put Cruyff above Messi though. Cruyff didn't win any WC or Euro.
I don't think CR7 is a transformational player the way Pele, Maradona, Beckenbauer, Cryuff were, so I'd place him below those for starters. Obviously this is not an insult to him.
Second, of his contemporary peers, I'd only have Messi as his superior. Xavi slightly below these two. The degree of that can be debated of course. And for those who feel strongly about the order being reversed, that's your opinion so fair enough.
For me, I think he has a legitimate argument of being a top 10 player of all time. He has the numbers and honor cabinet to rival any other peer from this era or previous that I've not mentioned. But it's an argument, not a foregone conclusion IMO. There are too many great players that have played this game.
My Mount Rushmore has those 4 players I mentioned. Messi and Ronaldo for me belong on the tier below. Not because of a lack of ability or accolades. They are joined on that tier by a few other players (Baresi, Xavi, etc), and don't have enough separation from those for me.
@antohan repost that Tiers of Greatness graphic you created years ago.
Second, of his contemporary peers, I'd only have Messi as his superior. Xavi slightly below these two. The degree of that can be debated of course. And for those who feel strongly about the order being reversed, that's your opinion so fair enough.
For me, I think he has a legitimate argument of being a top 10 player of all time. He has the numbers and honor cabinet to rival any other peer from this era or previous that I've not mentioned. But it's an argument, not a foregone conclusion IMO. There are too many great players that have played this game.
My Mount Rushmore has those 4 players I mentioned. Messi and Ronaldo for me belong on the tier below. Not because of a lack of ability or accolades. They are joined on that tier by a few other players (Baresi, Xavi, etc), and don't have enough separation from those for me.
@antohan repost that Tiers of Greatness graphic you created years ago.
Last edited:
Not the biggest Messi fan by any metric, but I have to agree with your take.
Why isn't Ronaldo a transformational player though? He revolutionalized goalscoring wing forward role in 3 attack system. Before him there is none. After him, there are many teams start following this trend and started to play with 3 attackers with wing forward cutting in as main goalscorer, and plenty of top young talents follow his footstep playing in similar role too (ie Mbappe, Rashford).
If Messi didn't deserve 2010 Ballon Dor, than neither did Cristiano in 2013.
I'm not disputing this but let me think for a second about this one. Henry wouldn't count as a wide forward, or would he?
Technically speaking, he isn't. He only start scoring goals when he is being converted to centre forward role under traditional 442 at Arsenal. In such system, there is no such thing as wing forward, only centre forward or winger, which is 2 completely different role. Although he likes to dribble along the flanks from time to time.
To think that Cristiano has become the all time top scorer despite not always playing as an out and out striker throughout his career is even more impressive.
He’s better than Messi for me simply because he’s done it in all the top leagues and has even won an international competition.
He’s better than Messi for me simply because he’s done it in all the top leagues and has even won an international competition.
For 2 reasons:
1. Cruyff performed better than Messi at a World Cup
2. Cruyff has had a much bigger impact on the sport than Messi
Actually, it's a very good take.
He's not the all time top scorer yet, although he has a good chance of getting there.
Correction, he's "greater", not better. And I am on the same part of the fence as you on this one. His ability to adapt and the fact that he has actually won something with Portugal means he has surpassed Messi in the GOAT debate.
Not only that, comparing him to other top goalscorer in the past. For example, Pele, he has been scoring goals since his first full season as 17 year old, 41 goals in 38 games, then his 2nd season, 66 goals in 46 games etc. Then we look at Muller, first full season as 18 years old, 47 goals in 28 games, 2nd season, 39 goals in 32 games... those are the all time great goalscorer, and they have been scoring tons of goals since the very beginning. Then we look at Ronaldo, first full season as 18 years pold, 5 goals as winger, 2nd season, 6 goals as winger, 3rd 9 goals as winger... then by now he has already outscored the likes of Pele and Muller in all official games.
You have probably the most dumb kind of criteria i've seen on this forum when it comes to judging players/careers, and that is saying something.
Cheers.
I rate Messi higher than CR7 and am not a Ronaldo fan boy so yeah try again. Sneijder deserved the Balon D'or - he was the clearest winner that year - even bigger Messi fanboys than you admit that.
Sneijder wasnt even #2 or #3. Thats a ridiculous argument. He also simply wasnt the best player in the world that year, not even close.
All sulking Messi fanboys say that.
Sneijder clearly deserved it that year, and by a big margin. Won the Champions League, Serie A and Italian Cup, while playing great in all 3 competitions. Reached the final of the World Cup, while playing great and scoring 5 goals along the way, clearly out-performing Messi at that tournament.
It ain't even close.
You people need to understand what the Ballon D'Or is awarded for/what it means, or at least what it meant when it was invented.
The Ballon D'Or was meant to honour the male player deemed to have performed the best over the previous year. From 1956 up until 2006, it was awarded based on voting by football journalists. After that, it became a joke of an award, since coaches and captains of national teams were also given the right to vote, and those dum dums didn't understand what the award was about.
It was never about who is the best player in the world, it was about who had the best season.
It is quite obvious for anyone with a brain that Cannavaro was not the best player in the world when he won it in 2006, Ronaldinho was. But Cannavaro had a great season and especially a great World Cup, that's why he won it.
Similarly, it is quite obvious that R9 was better than Sammer in 96, yet Sammer won it.
If the award was just meant for who is the best in the world, then:
- Baggio should have won it for 3-4 consecutive seasons in the early 90s;
- R9 should have won it 3 consecutive times, from 96 to 99, and again, 2 consecutive times, from 02 to 04;
- R10 from around 04 to around 06.
etc
But it's not, it's about who had the best season, and in 2010, that was Sneijder by far.
Well said.
Not sure Ronaldo will stand the test of time like Maradona and Pele have, and Messi probably will.
Maradona, Pele and Messi are in a league of their own because while being elite they also nailed that intangible part of the game of football. I don’t feel Ronald did despite his tremendous achievements.
Maradona, Pele and Messi are in a league of their own because while being elite they also nailed that intangible part of the game of football. I don’t feel Ronald did despite his tremendous achievements.
I still think the idea that C. Ronaldo should be in the top 6 of all time is one of the least controversial suggestions ever. Maybe back in 2015 it was up for debate, but he sealed his legacy around 31 years of age.
Actually, if the Ballon D'Or was in it's current format back in 2010, which is the original format, Sneijder would have won as journalists gave him the most votes.
I can only assume you have the years messed up because Sneijder didn't put a foot wrong that year. He won the treble with Inter and was exceptional in the world cup. I hope you have the years wrong because this is the dumbest comment in the thread if not.
Stats aren’t everything. Ronaldo 07/08 was absolutely unbelievable, as good a season as any player ever. 08/09 he wasn’t just as good, think he missed a few games through injury as far as I remember? Also had his head half in Madrid.
Ronaldo is simply the most complete striker of all time, heading, speed, agility, power in both feet, timing of runs, accuracy, free kicks.. there is no weakness hence nobody can match his goal scoring record. Easily makes top 4 of all time for me.
Well with those many all time records such as 770+ goals and 5 CL plus 5 Ballon D'ors etc its really hard to written him off with test of time, isn't it? He will only grow bigger when many of his all time records stays longer for sure.
For me 07/08 he was having best individual season I've ever seen from any player since L.Ronaldo, and clearly by far best player in the world. I mean, I have never seen a winger could score that amount of goals before that, 40+ goals in a season from the wing, while he was also most skillful player in the world at that time too, it just totally defies my knowledge and concept of football at that time. You know, back in those time, best strikers in the world were expected to have 20-30+ goals, while you won’t expect best winger in the world to score more than 10-15 goals. He was most skillful winger in the world, and he scored 42. To me, it’s revolutionary moment of football.
08/09 he isn't quite as good as 07/08, as he clearly had his head half in Madrid, but still world class and comfortably the 2nd best player in the world on performance alone (Messi was best).
Then 09/10 he was back to his 07/08 form but was injured at Madrid for months.
From 10-13, he was performing at his best ever level with unreal output, for me he has overtaken peak L.Ronaldo at that period, in terms of overall performances+end products, as he has everything (pace, skills, tricks, goals, long shots, header, freekick, athleticism, drive etc), but unfortunately not only he was competing with peak Messi during that period, he was also competing together with peak Xavi+iniesta and best ever Barca. Imagine if that has happened in other period of football, more people would have rated his peak higher.
Its only from 14-15 onwards, he is more focus on stats and trophies rather than performances, become less involved in build up play, but he enjoyed more success during that period.
Last edited: