The cycle was in the descending phase already, after those two CL finals with Allegri in three years (2015 and 2017). Agnelli was pretending Ronaldo would put us through the last mile, but he just blew out the entire squad.
Cristiano Ronaldo : The Juventus Chapter | Fin
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He’s not a Juve fan, he is a professional Ronaldo fanboy, which is fair enough. Once his idol and all the circus surrounding him bugger off, Juve will be back to their most recent historical role of plucky underdogs with functional superstars. Suffice to say, any Juve fan will tell you Tevez, Mandzukic, even Higuain did more than him.
Yeah I get the same opinion at work. They prefer Tevez to Cristiano.
Never said he was a bottler. He's the best finisher of all time, and the second best forward of all time IMO. He's going to finish the chances that his teams sets up for him. He's just not going to change a game by himself often, like other genius players would.
Say you are the owner of 2018 Juventus. Which player would you rather join your team to win the CL, peak Messi, peak Maradona, peak Pele, peak R9 or peak CR7? Id bet anything that if you made a poll and asked managers of the world, the 5th place on that poll would be CR7 by far.
If you dont agree thats cool. Lets just agree to disagree.
I don't really get this idea that Ajax were a better team than Juventus. But anyway pinning all your hopes on a player 33-36 years old is a bit foolish.
I don’t fully either but that Ajax side played more as a team I guess? Either way on paper, Juventus should be winning that, especially as they were at home.
Maybe they were in better form, but I'd still say that Juventus comfortably had a better squad than Ajax, Lyon and a 10 men Porto.
You are either joking or didn't watch RM at all.
Can you tell me in which CL campaign that was the case ? I'm curious to know in which CL campaign he got carried to the title by his team and only scored in games that they would win anyway.
Oh come on, you dont believe he is the second best forward of all time, and fair enough, you dont have to, but at least just be honest about it.
I love the fact that you brought up R9 though.
Since we are talking about CL here(forget about the other aspects of his career for a moment), now, why would anyone pick a guy who never won a CL despite playing for stacked teams, over a guy who won 5 of them?
So, again, pick a better argument.
Next.
If he stays and even signs a new contract he will win the UCL with us and I am sure about that because he did the same with Man United and Real Madrid.
it took him 4 years with Manchester United and 5 with Real Madrid.
That game against Porto was so unfair. It should go to penalties after the extra time. I don’t understand why the agg is valid after 90 minutes. The should change that rule.
it took him 4 years with Manchester United and 5 with Real Madrid.
That game against Porto was so unfair. It should go to penalties after the extra time. I don’t understand why the agg is valid after 90 minutes. The should change that rule.
Ronaldo has changed games single handedly for more than a decade. From he was 20 till his early 30s he could run past and dribble past any defenders, and then score a goal or assist. He could also score a screamer from 35 yards out. What are you on about? The fact that he is not that player anymore, whilst still scoring a hat trick today is just mightily impressive!
Greatest player of all time, simply put the greatest goal scorer ever.
The caf is usually always wrong. This forum said rooney was gonna be a better player, said ronaldo will take years to settle in la liga, just always wrong about everything.
Imagine what happens when you put a coach that has a bit of sense. We saw what Ronaldo did with Ancelotti and Zidane.. these Juve coaches are downright terrible, yet he's still making do with what he's got.
GOAT.
The caf is usually always wrong. This forum said rooney was gonna be a better player, said ronaldo will take years to settle in la liga, just always wrong about everything.
Imagine what happens when you put a coach that has a bit of sense. We saw what Ronaldo did with Ancelotti and Zidane.. these Juve coaches are downright terrible, yet he's still making do with what he's got.
GOAT.
Never said he only scored in games that his team would've won anyway. He of course showed up to some important matches and did his job of finishing the chances that his team set up for him.
He made a habit of scoring a bunch of goals against clubs from obscure parts of Europe, then doing a decent job at KO stages only to be completely carried by his team on the CL final, such as Ramos and Bale carrying him both times against Atletico, then against Liverpool, 3 finals were he was completely non-existant.
On 2017-2018 vs Liverpool, he got a rating of 6.6 on the final, half his team played better. On 2016-2017 vs Juventus, Casemiro won MTOM. On 2015-2016 vs Atletico, Bale won MOTM and Ramos/Casemiro outperformed CR7. On 2013/2014 vs Atletico, again Ramos saved Madrid on the 93' (while CR7 was nowhere to be found on the entire game) and again Bale was higher rated than CR7, only for CR7 to score the 4-1 penalty at the end of the game before taking his shirt off. He wasnt the best player of Madrid in any of those finals, not even close.
So yeah, again, CR7 is a great player. A top 5 EASILY player of all time. He's just more a luxury than a player you want your team to depend on, and this is where Juventus screwed up IMO.
I disagree, mainly because of Pirlo, his inexperience and his philosophy. If allegri was still there then yes it could happen. Allegrinis smarter and more results driven. On paper Dybala, Chiesa, Cuadrado and Bernardecshi should between them have enough flair and creativity to create chances and unlock defences for Ronaldo and Morata to put the ball away.
Personally Ronaldo's best chance of winning another CL trophy is to join PSG. They and City are hell bent on winning that trophy and have the deepest pockets.
I highly disagree, the fact he puts the numbers he does in Juve tells me In a team like Bayern he would be scoring goals at a stupid rate.
Because it’s true. Go to the Juventus forum and they all say the same thing. They all are in agreement that the team is assim bar a handful of players.
bentancur, Ramsey, rabiot. This is there midfield. Arthur is ok but nothing special.
Morata is there starting striker. Berna?
Ronaldo, dybala, chiesa, de ligt,cuadrado, Sandro. Only good players they have and dybala is never fit.
This has nothing wiry defending him. He can retire today and be too 3 all time, hell he could have retired 5 years ago and been top 3.
The problem is you mix this squad they have and then you put sarri and Pirlo as the coach. What do people expect will happen. Both are simply not good enough at all.
Reading your last 2 posts gave me cancer.
Ronaldo is a luxury? What in the feck did I just read. Not important to Real Madrid CL success? The guy who is the greatest CL player of all time? The guy who has the most knockout goals by DOUBLE then anyone even close to him? The guy who scored 15-20 goal every time they won the comp?
A top 3 player of all time is a “luxury” ?
Even if you are naive enough to say top 5 then this post still does not make sense.
Had Ronaldo been in those Juve teams that made the CL final Juve right now would have 2 more CL under there belt.
He is the difference maker. The problem is they got Ronaldo which is cool but they completely forgot about getting all the other pieces together to make a championship winning team.
I agree Ronaldo is not a luxury player. It's a silly thing to call him. He's a keyplayer.
You guys can keep arguing but the record books will always show most goals and assists all time in the Champions League - CR.
Most goals ever - CR
5 CL's - CR
You guys never learn.. write him off, he proves you wrong, dominates for years, has a little dip or doesn't win everything that year and you write him off, rinse repeat. You never learn.
Most goals ever - CR
5 CL's - CR
You guys never learn.. write him off, he proves you wrong, dominates for years, has a little dip or doesn't win everything that year and you write him off, rinse repeat. You never learn.
Very sad seeing United fans talk bad about Ronaldo. If it wasn't for him we would still be on measly 2 CL's. He gave us a CL and a title before he left.
This is such a nonsensical statement that I have to question if it was even serious. The same guy that put 10 past Juve before moving there, (most goals one player has scored against any single team in the CL), you're saying they should have done proper research on.
And yeah I'm guessing they would have beaten all of Wolfsberg, Atletico and Bayern (2x) without his goals. The same player that has double the number of goals of everyone in the competition from the QF onwards "disappears" in the most important matches.
The guy has more goals in the knockout stage of the CL than pretty much everyone bar Messi has in the tournament as a whole and he apparently disappears in the important games. I've truly read it all.
Juve had a lot of key players missing for the 2nd leg against Ajax. But yes, they should've won.
No way. You're just being disingenuous at this point.
His posts always confuse me.
This is what the hard-core Messi fans do, although they claim there's no comparison to be made, they spend an awful lot of time downplaying Ronaldo. It's weird, either he's in the conversation or not. Seem like a insecure bunch to me.
Your reading comprehension is giving ME cancer. Where did i say he wasnt important to Real Madrid success? I already said multiple times he's one of the greatest players of all time. Im just saying Madrid's success had every bit to do with him just as much as it had to do with multiple other players on a similar degree.
Current CR7, for Juventus IS a luxury. Its the cherry on top, and clearly they wont win big things depending solely on him. And i dont think CR7 is the greatest CL player ever but thats a whole different discussion
With the way CR7 fans are purposefully misinterpreting my posts in this thread in order to discredit me and reinforce their own argument at the same time, i can understand how would they misinterpret CR7's career to make him look like he's the GOAT.
So far, conveniently, nobody has adressed his poor performances on CL finals, where in 5 of them he was pretty much non-existant to average. Are CL finals not considered the most important matches? Id say they do.
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Are you describing Messi there instead? It’s more like the total opposite for Ronaldo in Real, he had usually performed better in CL there, especially during the knockout stages, winning 4 CL there as top scorer you know. He usually treated the league as his second priority back in his time in Real.
Maradona hasn’t scored a goal in WC final, so he is non-existence in the important WC matches to you?
At least Ronaldo had scored a few goals in CL final (4 goals in 5 finals, winning all of them), and more than anyone else in the competition. Not to mentioned he has all time record in the knockout stages and the whole competition too.
In comparison, Maradona, one of the greatest WC player ever, had 0 goals in 2 WC final.
Messi has been invisible in 1 WC final and 2 copa final too, scoring 0 goals in total and losing all of them.
Cruyff had a great 74 WC, but he was man marked, and didn’t score any goals in the final, losing the match eventually to Germany.
Those are the other GOAT, disappearing and scoring 0 goals in the most important finals of their career.
Let’s be fair, are you going to waste your time calling them as luxury player too?
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Messi has 10/10 performances against Real Madrid, Liverpool, Manchester United three times, Bayern Munich, Arsenal etc. Do you know how many 10/10 performances CR7 has?
Maradona wasnt a goalscorer, his role on the pitch was different than CR7's. He created his team's offensive, rather than capitalize on it like CR7. In fact he assisted on Argentina's final on 86', 1 game after performing like no other player in history has performed on the worldcup, where he scored the goal of the century against England. And btw id take CR7 over Maradona unless we are talking peak ability.
You know, it is very difficult to have proper conversations over here about non-United, and more in general, non-PL teams because the majority of fans, rightfully so, do not follow foreign football on a day-by-day basis and therefore just write lines because of sympathy, prejudices or defining episodes taken from single games on the biggest stage.
So it seems pretty strange to me, an hardcore Juve fan, to be told that I am being disingenuos in comparing players contribution to the fortunes of the team I follow 24/7? Really?
Higuain was instrumental, with Dybala, in getting Juve to the 2017 CL final, and in winning at least two scudettos with decisive goals against our most direct competitors Napoli and Inter. Am I saying that he is overall better than Ronaldo? Nope, of course, yet he did more for the team, he was a functional part in a well-oiled and well-drilled machine, which is historically trademark Juve.
Ronaldo cannibalized my team financially, lowered dramatically our conversion rate, exterminated any other goalscoring threat (from set pieces, most notably) to accommodate his narcissistic push for his own records. May I be royally pissed off for these three wasted years, with a failed all-in? May I be able to understand the nuances of my team better than the claques and the fanboys actually trolling or reinforcing even more distorted narratives?
You are talking about final. Messi disappear in lot of those.
Maradona has 5 goals in 86 WC, but he didn’t score a goal in final, and he was rather quiet in the final in comparison to his other games. Also, why are you mentioning semi with Maradona, when you are ignoring those for Ronaldo? Don’t be such a hypocrite with double standard.
You are kind of proving my point here.
All those finals where Maradona, Messi and Cruyff didnt perform to their standards, their teams lost the game. They didnt have Ramos, Bale or Casemiro pulling off goals out of their asses to carry their teams to victory. If they had, right now comparisons would be VERY different.
CR7 did have that luxury of having shit final performances or even not playing the final, and his teams still winning the game. Yet CR7 gets given points because of it while the others get punished by it. CR7 takes his shirt off on the last minute after his team pulled off a miracle comeback, while Messi goes back home being called a choker.
I stand by my initial point. If Juventus signed 34 year old CR7 to take them to the next level, they simply made a mistake. For marketing reasons, thats another story.
Messi's 10/10 performances against United on the two finals, and his MOTM on the final against Juventus, that alone completely destroys anything that CR7 has done in any final ever by A LOT.
Literally the opinion every Juventus fan I know has.
Your last paragraph illustrates to me some strong contempt you hold towards Ronaldo for joining.
Objectively speaking he has been better for the club than Higuain. The latter was part of a more functional Juve and scored decisive goals but so has Ronaldo. Ronaldo was equally pivotal for 2 scudettos and although he didn’t reach a CL final with Juve, he scored more goals in the competition for the club particularly in the KO stages and in less appearances. His Atletico performance is better than anything Higuain ever did at the club. Moreover, his overall record at Juve is at 95 goals in 122 games while Higuain scored 66 in 149 games. I don’t get why the decline of Juve has had so much emphasis on the Ronaldo transfer. Surely, it should be the management that should take responsibility if they couldn’t afford to sign Ronaldo and still maintain quality throughout the squad. I mean it’s not like he signed himself? Your anger and dismay should be directed at the club’s directors for not making the proper acquisitions with Juve’s seemingly limited funds. Let’s not forget the club is wasting a combined €14M net on Ramsey and Rabiot which is already half of Ronaldo’s wage. Then there’s Dybala also on €7M net who’s been absent the whole season.
On here it’s mostly the opposite: https://www.juventuz.com/threads/cristiano-ronaldo.43652/page-954#post-6306115
Messi wasn’t 10/10 in 2009. He wasn’t even MOTM.
He wasn’t rated MOTM in 2015 either never mind being 10/10.
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