Cristiano Ronaldo : The Juventus Chapter

Bebestation

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It's looking more and more likely that history will not look favourably on Ronaldo, especially compared with other flashier technical dribblers.

I reckon the further he is into retirement, the more his career will be reduced to that of a simple goal poacher with longevity.
This is what I've been saying. Some people value a technical dribbling ability over everything else in a player so they rate their players purely on technical ability.

This is why you see so many posts saying that Ronaldinho is better than Ronaldo. I find technical ability of a footballer just a single aspect of a footballer like mental ability, leadership, heading, long shots etc -what Ronaldo is lacking in one - he has made up for in another.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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I think it is much more likely that over the years, people will forget that Ronaldo became "just" a poacher near the end of his career.
 

Acrobat7

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Not really. Everybody knows he was extremely complete 7-8 years back and a for a decent chunk of his career too. Only blinkered people will reduce him to that. If history only remembers that then history is stupid. I do think it's a factor when judging him of course and that's one reason why he's not the best footballer I've ever seen. However you can't just forget the periods where his overall game was very good.
Ronaldo might go down the „Gerd Müller“ road. 20 or 30 years from now he might be reduced to his insane goal output while neglecting that he was a lot more than that.
Obviously that would still rank him very very high but not in the Pele, Beckenbauer, Maradona, Messi, Cruyff region.
 
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Zehner

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Ronaldo might go down the „Gerd Müller“ road. 20 or 30 years from now he might be reduced to his insane goal output why neglecting that he was a lot more than that.
Obviously that would still rank him very very high but not in the Pele, Beckenbauer, Maradona, Messi, Cruyff region.
Can only speak for myself but apart from Pelé, I didn't know any goal records of legendary players until a few years ago. I couldn't have told you if Puskas, Cruyff, Maradona, Zico, Eusevio, Laudrup or whoever scored the most goals.

I believe what young people will do when they hear the name of Messi or Cristiano for the forst time is looking up footage of them. And the footage of CR7 will primarily consist of highlights of his early career. People will definitely see him for what he was but I also believe they'll see that he's just that tiny bit below other greats.
 

cyberman

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Ronaldo might go down the „Gerd Müller“ road. 20 or 30 years from now he might be reduced to his insane goal output why neglecting that he was a lot more than that.
Obviously that would still rank him very very high but not in the Pele, Beckenbauer, Maradona, Messi, Cruyff region.
Nooe. Too much footage available these days plus he spent his prime years at the clubs with the 2 largest fanbases in the world.
 

Daysleeper

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It's looking more and more likely that history will not look favourably on Ronaldo, especially compared with other flashier technical dribblers.

I reckon the further he is into retirement, the more his career will be reduced to that of a simple goal poacher with longevity.
it may happen to Messi as well. Recency bias will always be a thing. What will benefit Messi is that as advanced metrics become more and more of a thing Messi’s are better than anyone’s
 

DoneDaDa

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CR7 will be remember fondly in history, I don't know why people think otherwise here? He's one of the biggest names in this sport, has a solid track record one can argue were you may sit among fathom of the greats but saying he won't be remember as fondly is outrageous.
 

lex talionis

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Ronaldo will never be forgotten, but I wonder what he will be most remembered for. Totally biased view on my part but if he comes back to United next season and lifts a CL trophy that may just go down as the incredible capstone to an insane career.

We’re far away from that of course but that’s the point.
 

MrEleson

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It's looking more and more likely that history will not look favourably on Ronaldo, especially compared with other flashier technical dribblers.

I reckon the further he is into retirement, the more his career will be reduced to that of a simple goal poacher with longevity.
Not really. He's still a 5 time Ballon D'or winner and he still has tons of great compilations of his United and early Madrid career which people will see when he retires. Over time people will probably remember less and less that he played closer to goal in his latter years.
 

Acrobat7

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CR7 will be remember fondly in history, I don't know why people think otherwise here? He's one of the biggest names in this sport, has a solid track record one can argue were you may sit among fathom of the greats but saying he won't be remember as fondly is outrageous.
Of course he will be remembered well. Probably as one of the best strikers ever (like e.g. Gerd Müller) while Messi will be remembered as one of the best players ever.
 

Camara

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*in an alternative Universe with hawkeye technology in WC qualifying games*

SSSSIIIIIIIIIUUUUU
 

bakalhau

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I'm arguing (light heartedly and in good spirit) in a portuguese forum whether sometimes he should be subbed off if he's not playing well.

Well, this is why I wouldn't sub him off. Just has this unpredictability. He hasn't played well the last 4 games for us, but he has this rabbit out of the hat card, and no one knows how, and when, he's gonna use it.
 

SCP

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Needs to be rested, sit on the bench for Tuesday, since the Porto game he looks completely shot on confidence, and regardless of the decision, throwing the captain armband to the ground isn’t a good reaction to have as a captain, even if the decision was completely wrong.
 

InterFan1998

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Is there a reason he takes all the fee kicks? I saw Bruno recently score a nice one vs Liverpool and Oliveira scored vs Juventus.
Not saying they are great but current Ronaldo may be the worst free kick taker in the world from players that’s consistently take them.
 

Shane88

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Is there a reason he takes all the fee kicks? I saw Bruno recently score a nice one vs Liverpool and Oliveira scored vs Juventus.
Not saying they are great but current Ronaldo may be the worst free kick taker in the world from players that’s consistently take them.
Status and childishness. He's shit at them but I'd pay to see the tantrum if a player took the ball from him.
 

Idxomer

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Is there a reason he takes all the fee kicks? I saw Bruno recently score a nice one vs Liverpool and Oliveira scored vs Juventus.
Not saying they are great but current Ronaldo may be the worst free kick taker in the world from players that’s consistently take them.
He gets a lot of privileges for being Ronaldo in any team he plays for and this is one of them.
 

Sayros

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He gets a lot of privileges for being Ronaldo in any team he plays for and this is one of them.
He should take penalties still, but free kicks he should have stayed away from even in his prime at Madrid. He had one or two decent seasons of free kicks (mainly at United), and then he's had an absolutely garbage success rate since then. You'd think at the top level this wouldn't fly anymore but I guess not.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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He gets a lot of privileges for being Ronaldo in any team he plays for and this is one of them.
I think that's the way it usually goes with the really top stars. If they want to take the team's penalties or free kicks, they have first dibs regardless of whether they're the best at taking them.

Funnily enough, I don't remember that being the case until the last decade or so. Dennis Irwin was our first choice penalty taker on a star-laden team.
 

Acrobat7

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I think that's the way it usually goes with the really top stars. If they want to take the team's penalties or free kicks, they have first dibs regardless of whether they're the best at taking them.

Funnily enough, I don't remember that being the case until the last decade or so. Dennis Irwin was our first choice penalty taker on a star-laden team.
It is the same with penalty shootouts. The star wants to be the hero and take the 5th penalty which is really stupid from a probability perspective.
 

bakalhau

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He should rotate free kicks like in Madrid in later years with us. At Juve, at this point, with no Dybala and no Pjanic I don't know, I'd still let someone else take it once in a while. With Dybala, Ronaldo takes left side free kicks only, and some central ones depending.

With Portugal he should rotate. He can make it happen still, specially on higher pressure games, as shown in 2018 and 2019, but I certainly wouldn't mind having Bruno or someone else take them in rotation.

This guy's freekicks will forever be remembered and his collection is absolutely mind-blowing, he has some truly insane stuff in his collection, but right now they are the only thing I wish I could talk with him, just to tell him to go rewatch his repertoire and take inspiration from what his creativity allowed him to do in earlier years of his free kicks. He has all kinds of free kicks scored, truly, a huge variety of them, and I feel like he mostly just tries the same over and over again now.

I feel like on free kicks very close to the area, I'd like to see him just rocket it into the keeper's side, he has power and accuracy to put it past that side, like he did in a lot of them before, but right now he always tries to put it past the wall. I wish he also curled it, slowly, instead of a full blown shot, as he's quite good curling it, as he has shown too. I have seen trying to curl it more often than not lately, but not enough.
 

dinostar77

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56483572

Cristiano Ronaldo: Are Portugal a better team without the country's greatest player?

An interesting article. Debate in Portgual that the national team are more fluid and creative without their greatest player. Raises an interesting conundrum. How do you tell your tell your greatest player that the team are better without him in it?
 

Lay

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56483572

Cristiano Ronaldo: Are Portugal a better team without the country's greatest player?

An interesting article. Debate in Portgual that the national team are more fluid and creative without their greatest player. Raises an interesting conundrum. How do you tell your tell your greatest player that the team are better without him in it?
You don't.
 

RedRonaldo

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Messi was the best Barcelona player on a Stamford bridge pitch.
So? There are always 1 best player in every game. Messi only have 1 game being the best on pitch in a last 16 match, and then he go on made 0 contribution in all the remaining games that year. You call this great contribution in winning CL?
 

RedRonaldo

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He was a starter for most of the group stages, and toyed with Mourinho's Chelsea on the round of 16. Read Mourinho's report and tell me Messi wasnt important in that team:

https://www.sportbible.com/football...on-barcelona-from-0506-is-remarkable-20190911

Look at the emphasis that report puts on Messi.



And btw, you are arguing different things here. Im talking about finals, and you bring up whole CL campaigns. Yes, he was top scorer on a lot of CL seasons, and that is an amazing feat, but ultimately he played very average on most of those finals, you cant say Messi played average or bad in any CL final he has played.

In fact, Messi's performance vs United in 2011 is something that CR7 hasnt done in any final whatsoever of any tournament. And this is what we are arguing, that Messi has been a better finals player than CR7.

Only reason this has been going for almost 3 pages is because you cant admit this simple fact, and you keep arguing in circles about goals, penalties, etc. You cant really tell me with a straight face that CR7 has performed better on the CL finals than Messi.
No. You are missing the whole point.

You are the one claiming Messi has “done” far more in CL final than Ronaldo, I am merely listing out all the important aspects where Ronaldo has actually “done” more in CL finals than Messi, where you refuse to listen.

Note the keyword here: “done more”

Look, I never claim Messi isn’t too performer in CL, in fact, based on performance level alone, Messi is easily the best in CL history. For me he is the best performer, and Ronaldo is the best winner.

But performance level is one thing, football is fundamentally a competitive sport, but not just an entertainment business. To prove a players has “done” more, goals and wins are just more important, rather then just performance. If you think peformance in CL final is most important and goals/wins doesn’t matter, then we are clearly watching different sports, or maybe WWE would suit you more.
 
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mshnsh

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So? There are always 1 best player in every game. Messi only have 1 game being the best on pitch in a last 16 match, and then he go on made 0 contribution in all the remaining games that year. You call this great contribution in winning CL?
When did I say it was a great contribution in winning the UCL? but in the group stages and in that game he played really really well; being the best player while sharing the pitch with prime Ronaldinho and vs one of the best premier league teams ever is a big deal. Injuries can happen to anyone; no 1 chooses them.

And since you argue about contribution, Cristiano contributed zilch for Real in the semis and finals of the 2016 and 2018 UCL titles. PS that hattrick vs Wolfsburg was as jammy as they come.
 

Swoobs

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When did I say it was a great contribution in winning the UCL? but in the group stages and in that game he played really really well; being the best player while sharing the pitch with prime Ronaldinho and vs one of the best premier league teams ever is a big deal. Injuries can happen to anyone; no 1 chooses them.

And since you argue about contribution, Cristiano contributed zilch for Real in the semis and finals of the 2016 and 2018 UCL titles. PS that hattrick vs Wolfsburg was as jammy as they come.
Also consider the euro 2016.Scoring 2 goals in the group stages, finishing 3rd, playing a great game and scoring a single goal against mighty Wales in the remaining 3 knock out games. Scoring 3 goals in the whole competition, same as Payet and Nani.
SIUUUU! The modern day Jesus carried Portugal to the Euro 2016! What great contribution!
 

Pickle85

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I do wish the Ronaldo vs Messi shite could be contained to that specific thread. It makes it so that it's impossible to discuss either one without someone chirping up with a snide remark. Then the thread just spirals downward.
 

dinostar77

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I do wish the Ronaldo vs Messi shite could be contained to that specific thread. It makes it so that it's impossible to discuss either one without someone chirping up with a snide remark. Then the thread just spirals downward.
Totally agree. Couldnt care less about the fanboy messi v ronaldo dramas.
 

VanKenny

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No. You are missing the whole point.

You are the one claiming Messi has “done” far more in CL final than Ronaldo, I am merely listing out all the important aspects where Ronaldo has actually “done” more in CL finals than Messi, where you refuse to listen.

Note the keyword here: “done more”

Look, I never claim Messi isn’t too performer in CL, in fact, based on performance level alone, Messi is easily the best in CL history. For me he is the best performer, and Ronaldo is the best winner.

But performance level is one thing, football is fundamentally a competitive sport, but not just an entertainment business. To prove a players has “done” more, goals and wins are just more important, rather then just performance. If you think peformance in CL final is most important and goals/wins doesn’t matter, then we are clearly watching different sports, or maybe WWE would suit you more.

Messi has performed at a much higher level on the CL finals than CR7 has. Thats it, thats my argument, you can have a different opinion but 1) it would show your extreme bias and 2) would discredit pretty much anything else you say on the subject.


You can twist your words around it, move the goalposts, bring up other statistics etc, but you cant say with an straight face that CR7 performs just as or better than Messi on the CL final. You simply cant. Mostly everyone outside of Portugal that has watched the CL final matches where one of the two played will tell you "yeah, Messi played much better than CR7".
 

dinostar77

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Trying to get this thread back on track. Alledgly Jorge Mendes offered Ronaldo to Madrid who said no they didnt want him back. They are looking towards the future and younger stars of the future.

Doesn't seem like he has many options left other that to stay at Juventus. Can't ever rule out PSG. I reckon he will stay another year at Juventus then go to MLS. Makes sense at his age, he'll be 37. He can play on for a further 3 years as he said he planned to play till he was 40.
 

2mufc0

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@Damien can the extreme Messi fans be threadbanned please? There's already a M v R thread now they've taken over this one too when it should be about Ronaldo's performances and other related news.
 

ReallyUSA

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Messi has performed at a much higher level on the CL finals than CR7 has. Thats it, thats my argument, you can have a different opinion but 1) it would show your extreme bias and 2) would discredit pretty much anything else you say on the subject.


You can twist your words around it, move the goalposts, bring up other statistics etc, but you cant say with an straight face that CR7 performs just as or better than Messi on the CL final. You simply cant. Mostly everyone outside of Portugal that has watched the CL final matches where one of the two played will tell you "yeah, Messi played much better than CR7".
You want to be stuck in purgatory? This is how.
 

VanKenny

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You want to be stuck in purgatory? This is how.
Didnt know the Nazi's had occupied Redcafe and you couldnt speak about certain things on here. That post you quoted is part of a chain of posts that started pages ago, and i wasnt even the one that brought up Messi into it.

Its not like im trolling or making offensive/polemic remarks just to stirr things up either, we are merely discussing CR7's performances on the CL and comparing them to the one that is the closest to him, that one just happens to be the one that cant be named.

Its easier and takes less effort to just skip past those posts instead of complaining about how grown men can be talking about things such as match performances or other football related things that involve CR7.

Now if you could spare me a piece of bread or two ill take my dirty self back to the sewers where you wont mind me no more
 

Lay

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It's baffling to see adults so invested in this war still in 2021.
indeed. I understood teenagers doing this but most of these are surely 20s and 30s :lol:

RE: as to where Cristiano should go.

I don’t think he will leave this summer but I think he should question if Juventus have enough to challenge in Europe. I can’t see anywhere else in Europe for him than PSG
 

ReallyUSA

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Didnt know the Nazi's had occupied Redcafe and you couldnt speak about certain things on here. That post you quoted is part of a chain of posts that started pages ago, and i wasnt even the one that brought up Messi into it.

Its not like im trolling or making offensive/polemic remarks just to stirr things up either, we are merely discussing CR7's performances on the CL and comparing them to the one that is the closest to him, that one just happens to be the one that cant be named.

Its easier and takes less effort to just skip past those posts instead of complaining about how grown men can be talking about things such as match performances or other football related things that involve CR7.

Now if you could spare me a piece of bread or two ill take my dirty self back to the sewers where you wont mind me no more
Yikes.
 

shamans

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Didnt know the Nazi's had occupied Redcafe and you couldnt speak about certain things on here. That post you quoted is part of a chain of posts that started pages ago, and i wasnt even the one that brought up Messi into it.

Its not like im trolling or making offensive/polemic remarks just to stirr things up either, we are merely discussing CR7's performances on the CL and comparing them to the one that is the closest to him, that one just happens to be the one that cant be named.

Its easier and takes less effort to just skip past those posts instead of complaining about how grown men can be talking about things such as match performances or other football related things that involve CR7.

Now if you could spare me a piece of bread or two ill take my dirty self back to the sewers where you wont mind me no more
Messi is a penality missing cry baby who can't win an international piece of silver with the worlds most talented squad in years.

Now let's end this civil debate.
 

Morty_

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Messi is a penality missing cry baby who can't win an international piece of silver with the worlds most talented squad in years.

Now let's end this civil debate.
I wouldn't be so harsh on Messi, but its worth pointing out that they pretty much played Copa America basically every year for a period, so he did have plenty more chances than those playing for European sides to win a national trophy.