Criteria Draft Round 1 - KM/Stobzilla vs VivaJanuzaj/Crappycraperson

Who would win this match where all players were playing at their respective peaks?


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RoadTrip

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Team VivaCrappy

Basic tactics:


A 5-2-3 that easily becomes 4-3-3 or 3-5-2, my team has the dynamics in it to either play super fast counter attacking football using Messi Eto'o and Kanchelskis' speed and technique, or play possession football using Sammer Lahm Modric and Messi.
In this game - We chose to play counter attacking football. Our entire team will sit deep allowing KM/Stobz very offensive team to get frustrated and send plenty of men forward, while our front trio of Messi-Kanchelskis-Eto'o will stay forward and punish. The reason we chose not to play possession football is that KM/Stobz's midfield is awesome, Zidane-Davids-Veron are all great on the ball so I don't think even Modric and Sammer can beat them in possession football. Messi in the free role will thrive under this setup, with Eto'o and Kanchelskis who are also really fast, we will steal the ball after tough tight narrow defending, send the ball forward for either of the trio who will be against 3 or 4 defenders, with Messi there with space to burn, and Eto'o's finishing I know where my money is going.


How will our team shape up against the opponent:

KM/Stobz's team is filled with players who like to venture forward. The midfield duo of Davids-Veron are both very offensive, and although they do offer protection to the defense, when our team will defend deep they'll naturally go more forward. We will defend with 7 players - Hyypia-Sammer-DeBoer will be in the middle, With Sammer's role is to stop Zidane at all costs. Zidane will not be shut down completely obviously, but it will frustrate him and greatly limit his influence on the match. Lahm will easily handle the pressure from Balakov, leaving the troubling Robben against Zambrotta. Zambrotta is wonderful but not great defensively, that's why he'll keep his focus on this match in Robben, and when Robben occasionally beat him, De Boer will come there to assist at his best position of LCB. Than, it leaves De Boer & Hyypia and rarely Hyypia alone on Signori, and as renowned goalscorer as Signori was, he can't beat that pairing in a tight deep sitting 5 man defense like mine. Cocu and Modric will also sit really deep, so when Davids and Veron move forward they will meet Cocu&Modric and have no place to maneuver. So basically you got 7 man brick wall that lets the opposition attack it, and by closing down spaces and not leaving an inch will stop Zidane & Robben(who are the main threats).

Than we steal the ball, we've got 4 great long passers to distribute the ball to Messi Eto'o or Kanchelskis in De Boer, Sammer, Lahm and Modric. Either of them can send the ball, Messi who will be in the free role will either go to the right to attack Irwin who will be roaming, or join the middle to attack with Eto'o the not strong central pair of Ferrara and Pallister, and with the lack of a defensive midfielder Messi will have plenty of room in these ares. 3vs3 or 3vs4, that's a great setup for us.


Why we will win the match:

1. Frustrating Zidane and Robben by narrowing down - Zidane and Robben are KM/Stobz's main attacking figures in this match, with Balakov shut down by Lahm, and Signori trying to squeeze between a tight central defense who are sitting deep, KM/Stobz goals will have to come from a moment of brilliance by Zidane and Robben. Neither will be stopped completely, Robben on paper has the obvious upper hand on Zambrotta when attacking, that's why we've got both Cocu in LCM to aid when Robben in going a little bit deeper to start his runs from deep and De Boer when Robben cuts inside and beats Zambrotta. That's two backdoor options incase Robben tries anything different, so that's covered with plan b and plan c. As for Zizzou, Sammer will do a great deal on him, but of course again, he will not completely stop him. But take Sammer's influence against Zidane's play, add that the lack of room for Zidane to operate because the defense will sit really deep, and you've got a match that can possibly make Zidane be weakened.

2. The devastating counter attacking football - As I said, my tactics and KM/Stobz setup will force them to send plenty of men forward, and we defend with 7 players behind the ball in open play. I predict between 6 to 8 players will attack by KM/Stobz each attack(Dead Certs - Veron, Davids, Balakov, Robben, Zidane, Signori, Possibly Roam - Irwin, Aurier), and with Kanchelskis Messi & Eto'o waiting to get the ball from one of our great passers(Sammer, De Boer, Lahm, Modric) they will punish the 3 to 4 players left there(Irwin-Pallister-Ferrara-Aurier). Messi will receive the ball on the right and beat them one by one or send the ball to Eto'o in great movement to finish off.

3. Eto'o and Messi's finishing - Eto'o and Messi's finishing is a crucial part of our counter attacking football. When you play counter attack you must have a top finisher, and Eto'o was bloody unstoppable at his prime, Messi still is. When he gets to a chance you just know they'll score it, we don't need more than a couple of chances to win it.

4. Defending defending defending - We have 7 players instructed to simply sit and soak the pressure, allowing the opposition to move the ball around endlessly and pointlessly. Modric is the only player from these players who isn't defensive minded, and with that we will take the best features of KM/Stobz brilliantly built attacking team. Their strength is in attack, our strength is in counter attacking teams who are attacking with plenty of players.






Team KMStobz

I will be focusing on my own team, those of you who know, I don't like talking mess on the other team and if I do have to reference them I will try to be as fair as possible.

The starting positions would be a 4-2-3-1



For me, Davids, Veron and Zidane is about as balanced as that triangle of players can be. Davids offers defence for days married to his driving forward runs and good distribution, next to him is another willing box-to-box worker in Veron. A fantastic passer of the ball, also wasn't afraid of getting his foot stuck in, one swing could launch a counter attack and he would look for and find Robben given the opportunity.

Zidane - He had everything, there is no shoe horning him in like he has been in previous drafts, here he plays as he should, between the lines with licence to drift, if he is to drift left as he was inclined to, he interchanges with Balakov taking his position centrally, an equally dangerous proposition. Balakov was arguably the most important cog in the that great Bulgarian side of the early 90's/Late 80's an extremely gifted passer. who provides a wand of a left foot. Arjen Robben completes the line, offering almost unreal pace to the point he can give others a 3-4 yard start, the ability to beat a man either side off the dribble and can cut inside and provide a killer pass or launch a rocket of a shot off his left foot.

Giuseppe Signori - 188 goals in 345 games at the height of Serie A and Italian defensive dominance tells you that he is a threat. with so much service behind him he will get opportunities and he will get goals.

Van Der Sar starts in goal, a master organiser of the defence and mainstay for Manchester United's most sustained period of success under Sir Alex Ferguson, he has the ever reliable Denis Irwin running the left flank all day, genuine under-appreciated world class on either flank and came out on top against virtually every winger he came up against. He locks down the left side with his running mate for so many years on that side Gary Pallister, extremely quick and an intelligent, technical user of the ball as well, he has the rare honour of being a defender named PFA Player of the year. Partnering him is Ciro Ferrara again, a technically accomplished, brave defender who was not lacking for pace either. Another great organiser of the defence who will keep a leash on young rookie Serge Aurier.

Aurier defensively is as capable at centre back as he is at right back and is a physical beast, although capable going forward, tactically I feel it is important to have him sit back and provide balance in the same way Wes Brown did for United circa 07-08 while allowing the more gifted attacker to roam forward (in this case Irwin) his physical presence and pace, along with Ferrara and Pallister give me as good a chance as any of nullifying Viva's counter attacks.

Good luck to Viva. Please be gentle.
 
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VivaJanuzaj

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My first point will be seeing that Irwin is a bit advanced up the pitch, not the wisest plan imo when Messi is lurking at Right inside forward.
 

Stobzilla

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I counter said point by saying that it is only to emphasise that Irwin is the more attacking of him and Aurier and to show Aurier tucking in slightly also.

Davids is reactive to said forays forward as well. He is the sitter of him and Veron and although slightly limiting with regards to his overall skill set, needs to be done given the threat behind him.
 

VivaJanuzaj

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I counter said point by saying that it is only to emphasise that Irwin is the more attacking of him and Aurier and to show Aurier tucking in slightly also.

Davids is reactive to said forays forward as well. He is the sitter of him and Veron and although slightly limiting with regards to his overall skill set, needs to be done given the threat behind him.
I see, still I believe that when I defend with 7 players behind the ball and play really narrow in defense and deep, Davids and Veron will get frustrated and move forward and join the attack to break that annoying defensive bunker.

Also I votes for our team you should do the same. You've created a great team and I think it will be a cracker
 

Stobzilla

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I see, still I believe that when I defend with 7 players behind the ball and play really narrow in defense and deep, Davids and Veron will get frustrated and move forward and join the attack to break that annoying defensive bunker
They may do but the instructions would be to not get caught 3v3 whether that is through Davids sitting or Irwin not providing some width. So be it, worst case scenario is that I do get caught 3v3 leaving Aurier to sit in is a deliberate statement that we shan't be outpaced that easy.
 

crappycraperson

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Just wondering, did Kanchelskis ever play on the left?
Don think he did. Giggs did swap wings with becks at times but not sure if it happened earlier. It is bit of an issue but not a large one. He will stretch the play on left as well.
 

crappycraperson

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All fits in well for us. Sammer on zidane is as good as it gets. With zizou out you are looking at robben. Robben without a supporting full back again a tight defense. He struggled at bayern when pep fecked about and he was the sole wide man. Not to mention he will have to play a different role here. Robben at WC had a free role, here zidane is the main man.

For us the goal is good come from the right. Irwin goes forward, sammer takes the ball. Gives it to modric who springs forward for a counter as he does match in match out for Madrid. Lahm rampages forward to add in more numbers and have Davids scrambling. Then if u find messi free it is an easy route to goal via him scoring or setting up etoo or you have options with lahm and kan stretching out wide. Etoo with his pace is gonna be lethal in such situations
 

antohan

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Just wondering, did Kanchelskis ever play on the left?
I don't think so. Don't quite like Modric on the right either, used to seeing him work the left side of field very well.

I can see Stobs'defence being more than good enough (Aurier was the one to target but Kanchelskis is out of position, which makes up for it). It will be hard to break down VivaCrappy but I expect a side with Verón, Zidane, Robben and Balakov to find a way through. Balakov will be underrated here, but he was every bit the heart and soul for Bulgaria despite Stoichkov taking the plaudits.
 

Stobzilla

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All fits in well for us. Sammer on zidane is as good as it gets. With zizou out you are looking at robben. Robben without a supporting full back again a tight defense. He struggled at bayern when pep fecked about and he was the sole wide man. Not to mention he will have to play a different role here. Robben at WC had a free role, here zidane is the main man.

For us the goal is good come from the right. Irwin goes forward, sammer takes the ball. Gives it to modric who springs forward for a counter as he does match in match out for Madrid. Lahm rampages forward to add in more numbers and have Davids scrambling. Then if u find messi free it is an easy route to goal via him scoring or setting up etoo or you have options with lahm and kan stretching out wide. Etoo with his pace is gonna be lethal in such situations
Bit of a leap there.
 

KM

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There's practically no one in the world that will take Zizou completely out of the game. He's too good for that.
 

antohan

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If Robben gets a chance to run behind or at that defense, there is a serious pace mismatch there.
Aye that's what I like in that frontline: the pace and trickery of Robben, the power and technique of Balakov, Zidane's magic, and Signori as a poacher extraordinaire or marauding across the frontline and dragging defenders left, right and centre. Let alone Verón servicing them from deep to boot.

You quite simply can't defend effectively against that, something WILL go wrong.
 

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Lahm/Messi with Modric assisting thorrugh the middle is still the best goal route for Viva. Irwin given a more attacking mandate might play into Viva's hands here. Kanchelskis played out of position would add workload on Cocu to support Zambo. But with Robben there, I think this might be a distant second threat to the goal.

For Stobz, it will be Veron/Robben to Signori and possible some Zidane magic, but considerting he also has Sammer there makes space a premium.

Quite difficult, but I would say Viva has a edge here. Let me read more comments before voting...
 

KM

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May I just point out that playing kanchelskis at left wing takes away his strong point?
 

RoadTrip

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Aye that's what I like in that frontline: the pace and trickery of Robben, the power and technique of Balakov, Zidane's magic, and Signori as a poacher extraordinaire or marauding across the frontline and dragging defenders left, right and centre. Let alone Verón servicing them from deep to boot.

You quite simply can't defend effectively against that, something WILL go wrong.
Agree with this. However, if you do overcommit, and VJ/Crappy to get a chance to break, you're in big trouble with Messi and Eto'o there. Modric can supply balls for fun too. That's what I'm trying to balance here really.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Andrei on the left looks wrong, it really does. It actually looks more wrong that playing Messi on the right to me. He - Andrei - was decidedly a right sided player for me and he looks positively out of position on the left. I'm sure he could do a job there, mind. But it has to go down as a flaw here.
 

VivaJanuzaj

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There's practically no one in the world that will take Zizou completely out of the game. He's too good for that.
That's why our tactics explicitly said that he won't be stopped completely, but with Sammer on him plus the incredible lack of room to play with our very deep defense, Zidane won't be at his best surely.

If Robben gets a chance to run behind or at that defense, there is a serious pace mismatch there.
True, that's why we will sit so deep, to avoid this mismatch.




The thing about Robben, is that to get the best out of him you want him to be the team's main ball carrier, getting deep and moving all around the pitch to see the ball, here you don't get it with Zidane, you get the selfish frustrating Robben who was the one(but great) move pony
 

KM

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That's why our tactics explicitly said that he won't be stopped completely, but with Sammer on him plus the incredible lack of room to play with our very deep defense, Zidane won't be at his best surely.
Was referring more to Crappy's post about Zidane being out tbh.
 

VivaJanuzaj

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Andrei on the left looks wrong, it really does. It actually looks more wrong that playing Messi on the right to me. He - Andrei - was decidedly a right sided player for me and he looks positively out of position on the left. I'm sure he could do a job there, mind. But it has to go down as a flaw here.
He's role for the team tactics won't be too troubled because he plays out of position, Messi and Eto'o are still the frontmen of our attack. In the counter attack Kanchelskis playing on the left isn't too much of a problem imo.
 

Chesterlestreet

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He's role for the team tactics won't be too troubled because he plays out of position, Messi and Eto'o are still the frontmen of our attack. In the counter attack Kanchelskis playing on the left isn't too much of a problem imo.
Well, to be fair here...as far as I can remember Andrei was not useless with his left peg. He used it well for dribbling and in general (he wasn't a decidedly one-footed player). But. His greatest forte - his extremely dangerous crosses, both high and low, both long and short...those he never, ever whipped in with anything but his right foot, going at full tilt, on the right side. As far as I can remember, that is. And his main strength was precisely one which was suited to counter attacks. Just ask an old Scottish bloke whose name escapes me at the moment.
 

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Very tight one.. I can't bring myself to vote
 

VivaJanuzaj

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Well, to be fair here...as far as I can remember Andrei was not useless with his left peg. He used it well for dribbling and in general (he wasn't a decidedly one-footed player). But. His greatest forte - his extremely dangerous crosses, both high and low, both long and short...those he never, ever whipped in with anything but his right foot, going at full tilt, on the right side. As far as I can remember, that is. And his main strength was precisely one which was suited to counter attacks. Just ask an old Scottish bloke whose name escapes me at the moment.
Don't think crosses will be a main threat from us with Pallister and Ferrara there, I'd much prefer Messi Eto'o Kanchelskis to play them one twos and beat them with speed, our attacking trio is much much faster than the opposing defenders, that's why the counter attacking here will be so deadly imo
 

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Don't think crosses will be a main threat from us with Pallister and Ferrara there, I'd much prefer Messi Eto'o Kanchelskis to play them one twos and beat them with speed, our attacking trio is much much faster than the opposing defenders, that's why the counter attacking here will be so deadly imo
There weren't many who have or did beat Pallister and Ferrara for pace I add Aurier into that as well. There is one who could do it convincingly and he is sat on my right wing.

Given my earlier stated instruction for Davids or Irwin to react to each other to not get caught in a 3V3 as well, you are willing to leave us with a man spare defending whilst everyone piles forward and backward. Given how deep you are sitting it will take a while for any meaningful support to arrive and then it lets us set up.

If Andrei is having to check onto his right then that too slows the attack down leaving the one purely countering way to goal being through Eto'o and Messi, by no means a bad way to goal but chances will be limited.
 
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VivaJanuzaj

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There weren't many who have or did beat Pallister and Ferrara for pace I add Aurier into that as well. There is one who could do it convincingly and he is sat on my right wing.

Given my earlier stated instruction for Davids or Irwin to react to each other to not get caught in such a situation as well, you are willing to leave us with a man spare defending whilst everyone piles forward and backward. Given how deep you are sitting it will take a while for any meaningful support to arrive and then it lets us set up.
I don't think Palli ever faced a forward as quick as Messi, or Eto'o to be fair.

To conclude this, I think our setup is more than likely to stop the opposition's top notch attack from scoring, while we are likely to get a goal or two in this specific setup
 

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You have a job on just starting the attacks, with you conceding possession you are goin to be forcing Kanchelskis and Messi to come deep to retrieve the ball leaving Eto'o isolated up top, unless you are just leaving the three up top with instructions to not retrieve in which case we maintain 4 vs 3 and have brilliant chance of getting further numbers back given that you are defending deep.

If the plan is to try and launch balls over the top then we have players more than suited to dealing with that threat as well.

We control the midfield, we have the pace to get in behind you, the magic to unlock the defence and find them and a proven finisher waiting.
 

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Why not swap Lahm/Zambrotta so that Lahm would be better able to deal with Robben. You can't completely nullify Robben and he will get past you a few times but Lahm would be better defensively than Zambrotta. Robben could switch to the left but his influence wouldn't be the same as on the right cutting in. However, I don't know Balakov and his quality as a player though.
 

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I'm not sure if sitting extremely deep is such a great idea for VivaCrappy. While I probably rate de Boer higher than most on the Caf, I can't really see him in a mainly reactive side, soaking up pressure and defending disciplined inside the box for 90 minutes, at least not successfully with Signori moving around and Robben constantly trying to run in behind. I'm also a bit worried that you're inviting long range shots from Zidane, Robben and Veron, which can't be a great idea and I'd probably prefer a different keeper than Valdes in this set-up.

KMStobz' attack is incredible, I can't see him not scoring and Davids' pace is pretty much perfect to help against counterattacks, so I go with 2-1 KMStobz here. I really feel that VivaCrappy should have played a more pro-active game, they have the tools to make it an open game with no team getting full control in midfield. And with Sammer dropping between the centerbacks in possession, the team wouldn't have been too vulnerable against counterattacks either despite the lack of pace in the centerback pairing. I actually could see VivaCrappy's team coming to life after conceding, not sure if it's enough to turn the game around though.
 

RoadTrip

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Went for Stob/KM in the end. Sorry viva/crappy but there's just something about your side I don't like. I can't put my finger on it, but on balance I prefer the opposition. It's a great team though to be fair.
 

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Don't think crosses will be a main threat from us with Pallister and Ferrara there, I'd much prefer Messi Eto'o Kanchelskis to play them one twos and beat them with speed, our attacking trio is much much faster than the opposing defenders, that's why the counter attacking here will be so deadly imo
Well, that's fair enough. But it begs the question - why Andrei? Seems to me you could have replaced him with just about any half competent, more or less suited-for-a-winger-kind-of role. He seems a bit...pointless here.
 

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Stobz/KM's midfield and attack is gorgeous. It has it all.

Balu makes a couple of good points about De Boer and Valdes not being particularly suited to penalty box defending.

I don't think Palli ever faced a forward as quick as Messi, or Eto'o to be fair.
Did he not get a bit of a pasting by Romario in the early 1990s? They said Pallister was one of the quickest at United, but you'd presume that was top speed steam-train stuff rather than over the business end of 5-10 yards.
 

VivaJanuzaj

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I don't see any issue with De Boer or Valdes in soaking up pressure, with my three men central defense I don't see too many shots from distance troubling Valdes, and Stobz/KM have one striker, not too much to worry in a deep defense with two defenders free on working on one(and not one of the best) striker.

Messi Eto'o and Kanchelskis will not drop deep too much, with Kanchelskis aiding a bit in pressing Veron, but not too much. I explained it very straightforwardly in the tactics, our attackers will rely on the distribution from our great passers(Valdes, Lahm, De Boer, Sammer and Modric all incredibly capable to pass long for either of them). The way I see it, both teams will have their chances limited, KM/Stobz because of our very narrow defensive minded team, and us because the lack of players sent forward. I'm just pretty sure our team have the better suited players to score in these chances - Messi and Eto'o are the best goalscorers in the field, both need a semi chance to score - that's what they do. It's enough we get 3 chances to score at least one goal if not two or three. We don't need 8-10 chances in one game to score
 

crappycraperson

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Of course sammer can take zidane out of the game. I know top players like zidane attain mythical status here but he had many a poor big games for juve n Madrid due to opposition tactics.
 

Stobzilla

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Of course sammer can take zidane out of the game. I know top players like zidane attain mythical status here but he had many a poor big games for juve n Madrid due to opposition tactics.
And Messi was plenty anonymous in a lot of games he was shunted out wide as well.

Either your attackers are receiving the ball to feet with their backs to goal dropping deep off the front to the detriment of your counters quickness or they are having balls played in behind to run on to. We are well equipped for both.