Criticism is fine (and encouraged) but there are some criticisms thrown at Ole that don't make any sense

[Amadaeus]

I've been meaning to make this thread for a while. There seems to be some people who think that there are fervent Ole inners who can't take any criticism of the club. That is simply not true. What I (and others evidently) on this forum can't stand are illogical and stupid arguments. Here are some of them:

1) Ole is inept tactically
The fact Manchester United have just set a record for the longest unbeaten record is evidence of this. You simply can not go that long in the most competitive league unbeaten if you don't have a clue what you are doing. The fact that Ole has the best record against Pep of anyone who has ever played against him (as far as I am aware) should also go to dismissing that fallacy. If you want to argue that tactics can be improved, then I would love to read your posts. I don't really understand a lot about football myself. But the idea that he's completely useless is thrown around here a lot and it doesn't follow.

2) Ole is poor at changing the game
The simple fact that we have come from behind to win so often is proof that this is also nonsense. We gained thirty-one points from being behind at different points last year. That is insane. The idea that follows that Ole doesn't react quick enough or is poor at making subs is therefore silly as well. Are there instances where Ole didn't make the exact decision you would have done? Sure. Is Ole clearly understanding the pattern of the games and adapting accordingly. Well obviously.

3.) Ole has ignored the midfield problem
Not at all. He just can't solve everything at once. We are now seeing Ole assembling the most exciting United team for almost a decade. But there probably is an issue with our midfield. The problem is before this window there was also a problem with our right wing and our CB. At centre back we've just signed a world class defender (as far as we can assume so far) and means we now have a great back up option in Lindelof to rotate. Otherwise we were one injury away from relying on Baily and Tuanzebe. Sancho will hopefully prove to be an exceptional talent in a role where we literally had Greenwood and Dan James. Now of all the pressing concerns we had, CB and RW seemed to be a massive priority. Effectively we've spent 90 million this summer and upgraded both significantly.

4.) Ole has kept the deadwood around/we are fleeced for our player sales.
Now this one I get but some people have both these views simultaneously. We know there are some players in the squad that are not up to our standard. However, you simply can not get rid of these players for nothing else you will have a weaker position in the transfer market next time. I've seen some people say we should just accept a couple of million for Lingard and get him to West Ham. If you do that, you won't get £25 million for James later in the window. Ole has absolutely turfed out around 15 first team players in his time at the club who weren't good enough and now we finally look to have a squad of players ready to contribute. Lest you forget that Young, Valencia, Rojo, Darmian, Fellaini, Sanchez, Smalling, Perreira were all around the first team when he arrived and have since been deemed no longer good enough.

Again, there are issues with the team. If you want to point out we often go behind in games and make it hard for ourselves, that is fair enough. If you want to argue that Ole should have strengthened midfield rather than CB that is also fair enough, it's just much more complicated than flat out saying he has ignored it.

No-one wants a forum where people can't complain. We just want reasonable posts and some of you have clearly decided Ole is not good enough and make up any old reason to justify your opinion.

1 and 2 showcase once again why those criticism has been justified against Young Boys. It will be a consistent theme this season and we are barely 4 games in.

 

[big rons sovereign]

1 and 2 showcase once again why those criticism has been justified against Young Boys. It will be a consistent theme this season and we are barely 4 games in.

Got next week's lottery numbers fella?

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

1 and 2 showcase once again why those criticism has been justified against Young Boys. It will be a consistent theme this season and we are barely 4 games in.

Poch watch today

 

[Wumminator]

1 and 2 showcase once again why those criticism has been justified against Young Boys. It will be a consistent theme this season and we are barely 4 games in.

What do you think barely four games in means.

 

[Matthew84!]

I know, Ole will always get bashed no matter what happens, let their small minds explode with negatively, I think even if we had won a trophy by now itd still be oh why haven't we won this or this. He'll never have the backing of some so let them spew their garbage every time we lose.
Let's hope all these when we get silverware get banned.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

What do you think barely four games in means.

 

[RedStarUnited]

I know, Ole will always get bashed no matter what happens, let their small minds explode with negatively, I think even if we had won a trophy by now itd still be oh why haven't we won this or this. He'll never have the backing of some so let them spew their garbage every time we lose.
Let's hope all these when we get silverware get banned.

And if we dont win anything, should those with opposite views be banned?

 

[dannyrhinos89]

I know, Ole will always get bashed no matter what happens, let their small minds explode with negatively, I think even if we had won a trophy by now itd still be oh why haven't we won this or this. He'll never have the backing of some so let them spew their garbage every time we lose.
Let's hope all these when we get silverware get banned.

Looks like everyone will be safe then. Because us and silverware ain't happening. Not while he's here anyway.

 

[Godfather]

I know, Ole will always get bashed no matter what happens, let their small minds explode with negatively, I think even if we had won a trophy by now itd still be oh why haven't we won this or this. He'll never have the backing of some so let them spew their garbage every time we lose.
Let's hope all these when we get silverware get banned.

Funny as I think it's exactly the other way round. No matter how much he fecks up he'll always be blindly defended by some

 

[Wumminator]

Funny as I think it's exactly the other way round. No matter how much he fecks up he'll always be blindly defended by some

When has Ole consistently fecked up?

 

[Godfather]

When has Ole consistently fecked up?

When has he consistently delivered? That's the more important question.

 

[Wumminator]

When has he consistently delivered? That's the more important question.

The last three years have all been an improvement from the one prior.

But you said he consistently fecks up? When was that?

 

[Godfather]

The last three years have all been an improvement from the one prior.

But you said he consistently fecks up? When was that?

No I haven't. You are living in cocoo land again

 

[Wumminator]

No I haven't. You are living in cocoo land again

Why are you posting that you don’t see people criticising Ole when he fecks up if you don’t think he’s consistently fecking up?
What do you want them to do? Post about Ole fecking up no matter how much he fecks up… even though you don’t think he’s consistently fecking up?

 

[Godfather]

Why are you posting that you don’t see people criticising Ole when he fecks up if you don’t think he’s consistently fecking up?
What do you want them to do? Post about Ole fecking up no matter how much he fecks up… even though you don’t think he’s consistently fecking up?

I have no idea what you are on about mate.

 

[croadyman]

Funny as I think it's exactly the other way round. No matter how much he fecks up he'll always be blindly defended by some

Yeah it's the match going TOP REDS who are blindly defending him to the hilt, I had a ST back in 10/11 but couldn't afford to keep it going but if I had kept it then I would still not just accept this inability to keep the ball in the majority of games and ignore his faults that are clear as day

 

[AjaxCunian]

I know, Ole will always get bashed no matter what happens, let their small minds explode with negatively, I think even if we had won a trophy by now itd still be oh why haven't we won this or this. He'll never have the backing of some so let them spew their garbage every time we lose.
Let's hope all these when we get silverware get banned.

You think people hate Ole, and also for no reason?

 

[AjaxCunian]

When has Ole consistently fecked up?

Last nearly 3 years? Do you really want to list the feck ups (no not every time we didnt win)?

He has done well and f'd up consistently, which started with his fantastic start as interim to bottling top 4 eventually anyway.

 

[Smores]

I know, Ole will always get bashed no matter what happens, let their small minds explode with negatively, I think even if we had won a trophy by now itd still be oh why haven't we won this or this. He'll never have the backing of some so let them spew their garbage every time we lose.
Let's hope all these when we get silverware get banned.

The perfect example of why the OP is wrong right here.

A consistent concern loses us a game and when people read criticism on it the toys go out the pram.

The simple fact is the some aren't able to comprehend that most of the posters criticising Ole and sharing their concerns still want him to stay and be a success.

Since they're unwilling to debate flaws any opposing opinion becomes illogical and they either create threads to only speak to those they already agree with or worse threads slagging off those they don't.

The rest of us just want to debate the good and the bad without this nonsense.

 

[Patrick Astwood]

I know, Ole will always get bashed no matter what happens, let their small minds explode with negatively, I think even if we had won a trophy by now itd still be oh why haven't we won this or this. He'll never have the backing of some so let them spew their garbage every time we lose.
Let's hope all these when we get silverware get banned.

No, it is precisely because when Utd have been within striking distance of silverware that Ole has choked, and to be quite frank, blown it. He does not have the tactical nous or mental toughness to motivate this team at crucial moments. I think he will be gone by the end of this season, if not sooner.

 

[Flexdegea]

No, it is precisely because when Utd have been within striking distance of silverware that Ole has choked, and to be quite frank, blown it. He does not have the tactical nous or mental toughness to motivate this team at crucial moments. I think he will be gone by the end of this season, if not sooner.

You are going to be massively disappointed this season when he not gone.


Be absolutely bonkers sacking him, considering the planning and money they've put into getting us back to a consistent level, improvement year on year and the squad we have built up for now and the future.

 

[laughtersassassin]

When has Ole consistently fecked up?

In the cups. The league is where he has shown consistency really.

To have not win a cup by now is poor especially when he had the benefit of being in the EL twice by getting knocked out of the CL in a ridiculous fashion.

 

[stw2022]

The lack of tactical identity is the most concerning for me. We still play like a side sent out with nothing more but a hope their big players put in a performance rather than a team that are sent out to play in a certain way.

He doesn’t have an identity as manager tactically. He says things like “The United way” and makes us feel warm and remembers the past but…that’s it

 

[justsomebloke]

The perfect example of why the OP is wrong right here.

A consistent concern loses us a game and when people read criticism on it the toys go out the pram.

The simple fact is the some aren't able to comprehend that most of the posters criticising Ole and sharing their concerns still want him to stay and be a success.

Since they're unwilling to debate flaws any opposing opinion becomes illogical and they either create threads to only speak to those they already agree with or worse threads slagging off those they don't.

The rest of us just want to debate the good and the bad without this nonsense.

I very much agree with the bolded sentence. But it also makes that very difficult when lots of posters just conflate what's gone wrong in a given game with what they think is wrong with OGS, or the team. There's no balance to it. You get something in one game and people point to that and the fact it's been a problem in 5 or 6 other games and think this proves that's how this team is, and just ignore that it hasn't been like that in 50 other games.

But in any case, that's a futile debate. I wish we could just re-start. Accept we've just stepped out of one phase - rebuild - and are now in another, where things have to come together, and where we can recalibrate expectations too. During the course of this season, very good things need to happen - this is when all that investment and all that painstaking rebuilding of the squad and club culture should start yielding tangible results.

Early returns seem to be some things are in place, some aren't. Maybe we still need a little patience, there are many new pieces in and a lot of impact to sort out. Maybe we need to remember that the results of getting Ronaldo maybe cannot be reasonably expected to match how good it feels to have gotten Ronaldo. But, we are no longer talking about a patience of seasons, but of weeks, or at most months. This does need to come together in a clearer way than it has so far. I think OGS has that view too. Last year, this felt like a team that was becoming great, staking a claim to be back among the PL elite. This year, it needs to provide a sense that it is back, undisputably.

It is both fairer and more relevant to judge OGS on his results now than it was 6 or 18 months ago. I just wish people would do so without drawing stuff they saw occasionally during the past two seasons into it. How he does with this squad is what he should be judged on.

 

[Womp]

I very much agree with the bolded sentence. But it also makes that very difficult when lots of posters just conflate what's gone wrong in a given game with what they think is wrong with OGS, or the team. There's no balance to it. You get something in one game and people point to that and the fact it's been a problem in 5 or 6 other games and think this proves that's how this team is, and just ignore that it hasn't been like that in 50 other games.

But in any case, that's a futile debate. I wish we could just re-start. Accept we've just stepped out of one phase - rebuild - and are now in another, where things have to come together, and where we can recalibrate expectations too. During the course of this season, very good things need to happen - this is when all that investment and all that painstaking rebuilding of the squad and club culture should start yielding tangible results.

Early returns seem to be some things are in place, some aren't. Maybe we still need a little patience, there are many new pieces in and a lot of impact to sort out. Maybe we need to remember that the results of getting Ronaldo maybe cannot be reasonably expected to match how good it feels to have gotten Ronaldo. But, we are no longer talking about a patience of seasons, but of weeks, or at most months. This does need to come together in a clearer way than it has so far. I think OGS has that view too. Last year, this felt like a team that was becoming great, staking a claim to be back among the PL elite. This year, it needs to provide a sense that it is back, undisputably.

It is both fairer and more relevant to judge OGS on his results now than it was 6 or 18 months ago. I just wish people would do so without drawing stuff they saw occasionally during the past two seasons into it. How he does with this squad is what he should be judged on.

The bit in bold is interesting - what do you expect people to do though if the concerns they have are still very much prevalent with this squad of players too? Surely then history is a valid indicator?

 

[justsomebloke]

The bit in bold is interesting - what do you expect people to do though if the concerns they have are still very much prevalent with this squad of players too? Surely then history is a valid indicator?

Mostly no I think, because the key point is that there are phases in play here. On the whole, I think the results and performances delivered in 2019/20 and 2020/21 were up to or beyond expectations, given where we were in the process at those times. As the squad has improved, so has the results. But it takes time to build a winner, and it usually involves stumbles at key moments. The ones we've had haven't generally been different or worse than we should expect. And there's been a good deal that has been impressive, and better than we could expect.

It generally makes little sense to me to insist on seeing OGS' period as a single whole - what we can expect now is too different from what we could expect in, say, the fall of 2019 and the reasons why things work or don't work are also different. If we have a certain problem in one game now that we also had in 5 games in 2019 and 3 games in 2020, that doesn't necessarily show that the problem is OGS and not the squad. The reasons may be very different in different cases, or a different mix of factors. So I'd be careful with that. But I wouldn't want to go to the opposite extreme either, in some cases there are clearly elements of continuity that is to do with OGS' approach. But it just so easily tips over into excessive generalisation that fails to take account of the fact it's been a real journey, with different parts of that journey looking very different, and for very good reasons. I mean, just look at how our best XI looked at times during that period, compared to what we have now. It's like different worlds.

 

[rooney2009]

Ole reminds me of Southgate,both learning on the job
No subs in the europa league final and wrong subs on Thursday
The Manager that utilities the squad best will win the league this season
He needs to trust his squad more not just rely on Bruno and Ronaldo

 

[lilcurt]

With Ole is boils down to just not being good enough for a club like United. I like to counter argument threads like this with a simple question.

If Ole didn't have an affiliation with the club and delivered the results/performances he has to date, would the fan base accept it?

I believe the answer to the above is a resounding 'no'. On the basis the LVG and Jose were more successful but we still didn't think they were right. Ole also now has a far better squad than both of them.

I'm not saying Ole isn't a good manager, but Manchester United is a club that should have an elite manager, not settle for 'good'. We look round every position in our squad and want to improve the weaknesses, whether that be CDM, RW or CB.

Our biggest weakness at present is the management. If you give Pep, Klopp or Tuchel our squad I honestly think we are favourites for the league.

Ole once said he only wants the best for the club. The fact is, 'he' isn't the best for the club, only the best to serve as the Glazers shield.

 

[VP89]

Ole reminds me of Southgate,both learning on the job
No subs in the europa league final and wrong subs on Thursday
The Manager that utilities the squad best will win the league this season
He needs to trust his squad more not just rely on Bruno and Ronaldo

Being a learning manager is palatable if you learn from your mistakes. This season he has no excuses so although there were really over the top reactions to Young Boys, it's not exactly surprising. He's in his 4th year and shooting himself in the foot in his first European game. That too after failing to control 2 out of his 4 league games against midtable sides.

 

[AjaxCunian]

With Ole is boils down to just not being good enough for a club like United. I like to counter argument threads like this with a simple question.

If Ole didn't have an affiliation with the club and delivered the results/performances he has to date, would the fan base accept it?

I believe the answer to the above is a resounding 'no'. On the basis the LVG and Jose were more successful but we still didn't think they were right. Ole also now has a far better squad than both of them.

I'm not saying Ole isn't a good manager, but Manchester United is a club that should have an elite manager, not settle for 'good'. We look round every position in our squad and want to improve the weaknesses, whether that be CDM, RW or CB.

Our biggest weakness at present is the management. If you give Pep, Klopp or Tuchel our squad I honestly think we are favourites for the league.

Ole once said he only wants the best for the club. The fact is, 'he' isn't the best for the club, only the best to serve as the Glazers shield.

In some sense he has been more succesful than Mourinho and LvG one could argue, when it comes to trophies, he is not.

 

[lilcurt]

In some sense he has been more succesful than Mourinho and LvG one could argue, when it comes to trophies, he is not.

I hate to sound like Jose but in football, for a club like United, trophies are the ONLY meaningful success.

It's all well and good building a great squad, culture and atmosphere but that is all to serve the attainment of silverware. Something I just don't think Ole will ever do.

Actually pray to be proven wrong as I know the club have no intention of changing unless things get terrible and we can't even make top 4.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

You think people hate Ole, and also for no reason?

Are you trying to say we don't have fans that hate Ole? You only need to do a search on this forum to see we do.

 

[AjaxCunian]

I hate to sound like Jose but in football, for a club like United, trophies are the ONLY meaningful success.

It's all well and good building a great squad, culture and atmosphere but that is all to serve the attainment of silverware. Something I just don't think Ole will ever do.

Actually pray to be proven wrong as I know the club have no intention of changing unless things get terrible and we can't even make top 4.

It's a fair point whilst Im not sure if I agree. He has generally had better league campaigns and he has improved yearly albeit very marginally. But I think the points of both camps are fair enough.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Are you trying to say we don't have fans that hate Ole? You only need to do a search on this forum to see we do.

Think hate is a strong word, and if they would it is very much based on his career here as a manager. I doubt it is because they just despise the man and want to see him fail.

I don't think he's a great coach at all but I'd love it if he was and if he succeeds here at United. He seems a very decent and likeable man.

 

[justsomebloke]

With Ole is boils down to just not being good enough for a club like United. I like to counter argument threads like this with a simple question.

If Ole didn't have an affiliation with the club and delivered the results/performances he has to date, would the fan base accept it?

I believe the answer to the above is a resounding 'no'. On the basis the LVG and Jose were more successful but we still didn't think they were right. Ole also now has a far better squad than both of them.

I'm not saying Ole isn't a good manager, but Manchester United is a club that should have an elite manager, not settle for 'good'. We look round every position in our squad and want to improve the weaknesses, whether that be CDM, RW or CB.

Our biggest weakness at present is the management. If you give Pep, Klopp or Tuchel our squad I honestly think we are favourites for the league.

Ole once said he only wants the best for the club. The fact is, 'he' isn't the best for the club, only the best to serve as the Glazers shield.

The answer should be a resounding "yes". You take far too much for granted, including your ability to determine how good a manager Ole is.

 

[justsomebloke]

I hate to sound like Jose but in football, for a club like United, trophies are the ONLY meaningful success.

It's all well and good building a great squad, culture and atmosphere but that is all to serve the attainment of silverware. Something I just don't think Ole will ever do.

Actually pray to be proven wrong as I know the club have no intention of changing unless things get terrible and we can't even make top 4.

You build a great squad, culture and atmosphere exactly BECAUSE trophies are the only meaningful success, and because you need these things in order to win them. Did you imagine the club, Ole or anyone here thought those things were the aim in themselves?

 

[justsomebloke]

Being a learning manager is palatable if you learn from your mistakes. This season he has no excuses so although there were really over the top reactions to Young Boys, it's not exactly surprising. He's in his 4th year and shooting himself in the foot in his first European game. That too after failing to control 2 out of his 4 league games against midtable sides.

Agreed. It's actually an impressive achievement to come up with an over the top reaction to the YBB game, given how much you could very reasonably cram in under the top, but some people still managed it.

There really, really can't be many more nights like that.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Make or break season for Ole. Time to deliver or move on.

 

[doomy20]

In total he is a worse manager than Guardiola, Klopp, Tuchel etc but better than many others. Point.

 

[Tom Cato]

Oles biggest genius is getting people to be so angry at him that they are genuinely not blaming Jesse Lingard for making a perfect pointless pass to give Young Boys the 2-1 goal. Mesmerizing.