Croatia or England

[Reiver]

No there wouldn't I agree. I do think that how strong the defence is in possession mitigates the lack of orthodox midfielders in the middle of the park though. We're essentially just holding deeper. And the mobility and guile of the extra attacking midfielders makes us less predictable than we've tended to be in the past. We've been damned by overly orthodox tactics from managers afraid of the media response for far too long and southgates willingness to try new strategies has been the big highlight of our world cup for me.

I take your point about England's defence in possession and admit I hadn't really thought about it from that point of view. However, it's Croatia's midfield that tend to have the ball and I think their use of the ball is likely to be more threatening than England's defence. Regarding England's attacking midfielders, Alli has been relatively poor. Sterling has made some good runs but they haven't yielded goals or assists.
You could be right, I'll never claim to be a tactical genius. I'm certainly looking forward to seeing how England get on against this Croatia side.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Objectively Croatia are much better than we are and our complete lack of midfield versus their strongest asset is gonna be a problem.

Subjectively? It's coming home.

They really aren't. Their only truly great player is Modric. Their CB pairing is no great shakes and they have an ageing striker whose goals record even for a dominant team like Juventus is less than 1 in 4.

They have a better midfield, but I think England's defence and attack is better, with the GKs on a par.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Objectively Croatia are much better than we are and our complete lack of midfield versus their strongest asset is gonna be a problem.

Subjectively? It's coming home.

Much better? Not so sure how that works out, to be honest. They're obviously vastly superior in midfield but on paper Lingard, Sterling, Alli and Kane is better than Mandzukic, Kramaric, Rebic and Perisic. Kane is the only bonafide world class player in either attack and definitely better than the (still very good) Mandzukic, I don't think many would argue otherwise. Then Perisic is probably better than Lingard, although both have a similar goals/assists to games, with Lingard playing for a better team but in an arguably superior division - (Lingard scored 8 and assisted 5, Perisic scored 11 and assisted 8 but started way more games.)

Sterling is obviously better than Rebic too .. 18 goals and 11 assists in the Prem last season whilst Rebic managed 6 and 2. Alli managed 9 goals and 10 assists vs Kramaric's 13 goals and 6 assists, so again pretty similar. Attacking wise I'd say England definitely have the edge, Sterling & Kane both put up numbers that I don't think any of Croatia's attackers could manage in the Prem. Obviously, actually doing it at the tournament is a different thing entirely, but it's not as if Croatia's forwards have been pulling up any trees in the knockouts either.

We have better fullbacks too (Ashley Young/Rose are definitely better than Strinic), Vrsaljko is a very good right back (though could be injured vs England?) but Trippier is having an incredible tournament and was also very good for us last season, going forward as a wingback he's a really effective player with world class delivery. Neither of us have the best central defenders.. but give me a back 3 of Walker, Maguire and Stones over Lovren and Vida any day of the week.

Don't think there's much in it when you look at the substitutes either. England can bring a 20+ a season striker in Vardy and a really dangerous player in Rashford, whilst Croatia have the likes of Kovacic or Pjaca. Like I said, the likes of Modric, Rakitic and Brozovic are vastly superior to England's midfield options but in every other area of the field I think England have the edge. Croatia are a really, really good side who have shown some fantastic spirit to win two penalty shootouts, but England have also been pretty good and whilst it's not the golden generation we do have some really decent players who have had very good seasons in a tough league, just needed to be managed right.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

They really aren't. Their only truly great player is Modric. Their CB pairing is no great shakes and they have an ageing striker whose goals record even for a dominant team like Juventus is less than 1 in 4.

They have a better midfield, but I think England's defence and attack is better, with the GKs on a par.

Definitely. Despite Croatia having the better midfielders I do think England will be the dominant team during the match, overall they have more quality across the pitch and I expect Sterling to be a real problem for them. Not too worried about Mandzukic (though I rate him highly despite a relatively poor scoring record) as I expect Maguire to be put on him and he's a monster in the air.

Modric could definitely be the difference though, he is a player capable of both effortlessly controlling the match but also opening it up in a second with an incredible pass. If England keep him quiet they win the game, but that's easier said than done because as you say he's a great player, the best either side can offer.

 

[MuFc_1992]

The gulf in class between those two and the Russian squad or the Danish squad (Eriksen excepted) is even more enormous and it didn’t translate into on-field dominance. Croatia are a good side and should start as marginal favourites on Wednesday but we shouldn’t build them up into something they are not. Or rather we should start giving this version of England some more credit and acknowledge they are tough opponents.

That's all I was trying to say but everyone I know considers England to be clear favorites. It would clearly suck if we lost and people started saying that England bottled it because they aren't favorites going into the game.

 

[tenpoless]

Someone needs to make sure Mandzukic doesn't get the ball, let them control the midfield and play counter attack. Sterling, Rashford, Ali, Lingard are all quick and Kane doesn't need a lot of chance to score.

I think England will go through.

 

[Red Dreams]

Southgate wont play on the counter.

If we do that we will lose.

We can battle them in midfield and we will.

 

[Giggs86]

The 120 minutes plus penalties that Croatia were forced to play against Russia can be vital. They looked dead on their feet towards the end of the second half, and i'll be shocked if they can play at more than 50% of their capacity. England, on the other hand, had a very comfortable 90 minutes. Doesn't sound like much, but I feel it will turn to be decisive, especially in the second half and much more if the game will go to extra time.

 

[Thomas A.Anderson]

There was one just 24 hours ago.

Guys, you are not reading the whole discussion. The OP compared Croatian and England defence, midfield and attack separately and said that England has a better attackers. And then I said that that's pretty debatable because England attackers ( Kane, Sterling, Vardy, Rashford) didn't score a goal from open play.

I mean, this all is pretty pointless because it doesn't really matter in semifinal but it's 4am, I cannot sleep and I'm bored.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Guys, you are not reading the whole discussion. The OP compared Croatian and England defence, midfield and attack separately and said that England has a better attackers. And then I said that that's pretty debatable because England attackers ( Kane, Sterling, Vardy, Rashford) didn't score a goal from open play.

I mean, this all is pretty pointless because it doesn't really matter in semifinal but it's 4am, I cannot sleep and I'm bored.

Kane scored from open play. So your original post was wrong anyway given he and Lingard has scored from open play.

 

[Isotope]

That's all I was trying to say but everyone I know considers England to be clear favorites. It would clearly suck if we lost and people started saying that England bottled it because they aren't favorites going into the game.

Why Croatia is the favorite? Their only good players are Rakitic, Modric, and to a certain degree Mandzukic and Lovren. Just like against Sweden, on paper, England is the fave.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Why Croatia is the favorite? Their only good players are Rakitic, Modric, and to a certain degree Mandzukic and Lovren. On paper, England is the fave.

Perisic is pretty damn good and has shown his quality. I presume Vrsaljko is out? Subasic is number one for Monaco and has shown to be extremely competent. England need to avoid penalties because of this lad.

 

[Isotope]

Perisic is pretty damn good and has shown his quality. I presume Vrsaljko is out? Subasic is number one for Monaco and has shown to be extremely competent. England need to avoid penalties because of this lad.

Perisic is like Lingard, not much end product but a work horse.

I forgot about Subasic, though. Fair do. I still think England should beat Croatia. England has better defence and attack, while Croatia obviously on midfield. Just like Russia has shown, you go against them, their defence would crumble.

Admittedly, this is based on England display so far. If you asked me before the WC final, I'd say Croatia was the clear favorite

 

[99withaflake]

Perisic is like Lingard, not much end product but a work horse.

I forgot about Subasic, though. Fair do. I still think England should beat Croatia. England has better defence and attack, while Croatia obviously on midfield. Just like Russia has shown, you go against them, their defence would crumble.

Admittedly, this is based on England display so far. If you asked me before the WC final, I'd say Croatia was the clear favorite

I have similar feelings about this match. Before the World Cup, I'd make Croatia favourites. A great midfield and England never look composed in big matches.

But now, considering England's strength at set plays, the momentum and confidence they're building, and Croatia's older team playing two games of 120 minutes, I think England stand a good chance.

Yesterday I thought it was 50/50. But now that the dust has settled, I think it's 51/49 in England's favour

 

[Thomas A.Anderson]

Kane scored from open play. So your original post was wrong anyway given he and Lingard has scored from open play.

When did he scored? 6th goal against Panama? You are really counting that?

He did claimed less in the past tbf.

And since when is Lingard attacker?

 

[FlawlessThaw]

When did he scored? 6th goal against Panama? You are really counting that?

He did claimed less in the past tbf.

And since when is Lingard attacker?

Yeah I am counting a goal as a goal. Since when do we just ignore them? You can’t just move the goalposts to fit your argument.

I never said Lingard was an attacker though he is more of one than a centre mid. Just said he scored a goal from open play which refuted your original point.

 

[BillyJoel]

I actually think it's gonna be a fairly easy game for England. Croatia are good 'n all, but watching their perfomances this WC, maybe outside the second half against Argentina, makes me think of a serious lack of mobility (and maybe also a lack of creativity).

 

[Rednotdead]

Croatia struggled against a poor Russia side, but they have scope to up their game. Will they?

England are gaining in strength with every game.

I favour England, but only just.

 

[P-Nut]

My main hope is that England play the game and not the occasion. Yes the quarter final was a massive game where the same could have happened, but this one is obviously even bigger and against a better opponent that would take advantage of such a lapse much easier.

I'm nervous as hell already and it's still 2 full days away.

 

[Denis79]

Behave.

Waiting quietly in the shadows.

 

[99withaflake]

My main hope is that England play the game and not the occasion. Yes the quarter final was a massive game where the same could have happened, but this one is obviously even bigger and against a better opponent that would take advantage of such a lapse much easier.

I'm nervous as hell already and it's still 2 full days away.

Same. I'm bricking it.

I think there's only been 15 minutes of football when England looked like they lost their way, and became a little nervous. That was the first half of extra time against Colombia after conceding the last minute equaliser. For the rest of the tournament, they've looked surprisingly calm and focused.

When they needed a late goal against Tunisia, knowing a draw would be a poor result, they stuck to the game plan and didn't panic.

When they played Sweden in the county's biggest game in over 10 years, they looked confident and relaxed throughout.

For me, I think the big test will be if Croatia put our defence under 5-10 minutes of constant pressure. If we can come through a tough period like that, over the course of 90 minutes I think we've got enough in the tank to beat them. Could be tight though!

 

[padzilla]

Croatia thrived against an Argentina side that was set up to attack them but they huffed and puffed against Russian and Danish sides that were set up to be defensive and stop the opposition playing, that's going to represent an interesting challenge now. In a wide open game Modric could do untold damage.

 

[saivet]

If I remember correctly, before the first goal against Argentina I remember both teams having some really good chances. I think Callebaro's mistake had a huge impact on the game.

 

[soap]

It's so impressive how many quality players come out of Croatia, given it has a population of about 5m.

That of course won't be enough to stop it coming home.

 

[soap]

Doesn't Mandzukic play on the left for Juve? That might explain his poor goal record.

 

[Judas]

When did he scored? 6th goal against Panama? You are really counting that?

He did claimed less in the past tbf.

And since when is Lingard attacker?

The mental gymnastics going on here is amazing.

I feel the weight of expectations on Croatia has really done a number on the Croatians we have on here, seem very worked up.

 

[Isotope]

I have similar feelings about this match. Before the World Cup, I'd make Croatia favourites. A great midfield and England never look composed in big matches.

But now, considering England's strength at set plays, the momentum and confidence they're building, and Croatia's older team playing two games of 120 minutes, I think England stand a good chance.

Yesterday I thought it was 50/50. But now that the dust has settled, I think it's 51/49 in England's favour

It will be a tight game, no doubt. I said England as favorite, but you're right. It's just 51/49, a hairline. Hopefully Sterling can find his shooting booth.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

I'm hoping Lovren comes out with an interview pre match.

Whenever he does that before Liverpool play Utd he's dogshit and we beat them.

 

[KirkDuyt]

So what's all this fuss about not scoring from open play? Did I miss the implementation of a new rule where goals from setpieces count for .5 goal?

England will beat Croatia comfortably I think. They started the tournament impressively, but could easily gone out to both Denmark and Russia who are both hardly world class teams.

 

[Jim Beam]

Much better? Not so sure how that works out, to be honest. They're obviously vastly superior in midfield but on paper Lingard, Sterling, Alli and Kane is better than Mandzukic, Kramaric, Rebic and Perisic. Kane is the only bonafide world class player in either attack and definitely better than the (still very good) Mandzukic, I don't think many would argue otherwise. Then Perisic is probably better than Lingard, although both have a similar goals/assists to games, with Lingard playing for a better team but in an arguably superior division - (Lingard scored 8 and assisted 5, Perisic scored 11 and assisted 8 but started way more games.)

Sterling is obviously better than Rebic too .. 18 goals and 11 assists in the Prem last season whilst Rebic managed 6 and 2. Alli managed 9 goals and 10 assists vs Kramaric's 13 goals and 6 assists, so again pretty similar. Attacking wise I'd say England definitely have the edge, Sterling & Kane both put up numbers that I don't think any of Croatia's attackers could manage in the Prem. Obviously, actually doing it at the tournament is a different thing entirely, but it's not as if Croatia's forwards have been pulling up any trees in the knockouts either.

We have better fullbacks too (Ashley Young/Rose are definitely better than Strinic), Vrsaljko is a very good right back (though could be injured vs England?) but Trippier is having an incredible tournament and was also very good for us last season, going forward as a wingback he's a really effective player with world class delivery. Neither of us have the best central defenders.. but give me a back 3 of Walker, Maguire and Stones over Lovren and Vida any day of the week.

Don't think there's much in it when you look at the substitutes either. England can bring a 20+ a season striker in Vardy and a really dangerous player in Rashford, whilst Croatia have the likes of Kovacic or Pjaca. Like I said, the likes of Modric, Rakitic and Brozovic are vastly superior to England's midfield options but in every other area of the field I think England have the edge. Croatia are a really, really good side who have shown some fantastic spirit to win two penalty shootouts, but England have also been pretty good and whilst it's not the golden generation we do have some really decent players who have had very good seasons in a tough league, just needed to be managed right.

Pretty much agree with you. Don't know when you look at the names why people say we (Croats) have a better team. Other than our edge in midfield in Rakitic and Modric other positions are pretty even or in some cases look better in England team. And midfield will get you so much advantage as your attack can make use of those balls that will get them few chances or constant 1 vs 1 situations against defenders where Rebic, Perisic and Mandzukic weren't so convincing. Rebic actually looked only one capable of constantly beating his defender, but has an obvious problem with the final ball after that.
Not to mention that your players look really good in the system you're playing and as a team which is the most important thing.

Also, your defenders being fully comfortable on the ball should pretty much nullify pressing from our front 3 which made problems for other teams, especially in the group stage. Denmark decided to counter this in the second half by kicking it long and then going for the second balls against us.
All in all, pretty even game the way I see it and can go either way. The fact we played 2 exhausting games should work in your favour the more the game approaches the end.

I'm nervous as hell already and it's still 2 full days away.

Yeah, same on this side of the fence. The thought that win takes you to the feckin final is absolutely nerve-racking. Can't imagine come Wednesday.

 

[P-Nut]

Yeah, same on this side of the fence. The thought that win takes you to the feckin final is absolutely nerve-racking. Can't imagine come Wednesday.

I'm working after it so can't even drink to calm the nerves. Can see it being a really nervy game with a mistake deciding it.

 

[MUFC OK]

They really aren't. Their only truly great player is Modric. Their CB pairing is no great shakes and they have an ageing striker whose goals record even for a dominant team like Juventus is less than 1 in 4.

They have a better midfield, but I think England's defence and attack is better, with the GKs on a par.

I think that Vida, as harsh on the eye as he is, is a fantastic player and makes Lovren look competent.

 

[Jim Beam]

I'm working after it so can't even drink to calm the nerves. Can see it being a really nervy game with a mistake deciding it.

Yeah, that sucks. Had pretty much same issue against Russia. By the time it started, not to mention the actual game and penalties, was thinking about taking some valium from my mother (I didn't, but wasn't far away from doing it). As for other, really not sure, can see the game going in every direction depending on the first 30 minutes, even one team surprisingly trumping other or being like you said a really close game with a costly error. We'll see.

One thing is sure, will try to find as much thing possible to work until Wednesday to not think so much about it.

 

[Ban]

Neither team is much better. I'd say we're on par. And neither will be a clear favorite just a marginal one. You can bet we're raise our game especially if we sense we're being underrated and put down.

I said already but a tactic of letting the ball to England should work. Whenever the chance quickly release a ball to Rebić or Perišić. Count on Walker to make a mistake or 2.

 

[Ban]

I think that Vida, as harsh on the eye as he is, is a fantastic player and makes Lovren look competent.

It's the other way around.

 

[RedSky]

Croatia looked pretty weak at defending set pieces the other night. That's good news for England. Croatia probably need to try and finish England off in the first half, the longer the game goes on the more it favours England imo.

 

[DickDastardly]

You lot will batter us.

A couple of goals from corners,then we will have to push it, concede two more for mistakes and that's all folks.

The only one you should be afraid of is Rebić.
He's the only one that can hurt you.
Mandžukić is wank.
Kramarić won't start.

Good luck in the final. I'm sure it's coming home.

 

[Ban]

You lot will batter us.

A couple of goals from corners,then we will have to push it, concede two more for mistakes and that's all folks.

The only one you should be afraid of is Rebić.
He's the only one that can hurt you.
Mandžukić is wank.
Kramarić won't start.

Good luck in the final. I'm sure it's coming home.

So about 0:5 you reckon?

 

[DickDastardly]

So about 0:5 you reckon?

Tu negdje.

3 for sure.

 

[Ban]

Tu negdje.

3 for sure.