He wasn't that bad for Real a few years ago. I went to the Bernabeu in 2016 and I think he was very good that day. At some point it went downhill it seems.What happened to him? I remember seeing him at Malaga, his ability in tight spaces and that curling shot he possessed was a thing to behold. I remember seeing him and Thiago boss it in the Euro u21 tournament and thought they were both the next two big midfielders. Whilst Thiago has gone on to have a good career, I haven't even heard Isco be mentioned in years.
Injuries?
Was he actually even an actual factor in that though? By good career I mean that Thiago has gone on to establish himself as one of the World's best midfielders whereas Isco has seemingly fallen off a cliff despite still being quite young.He’s won 2 leagues and 4 Champions Leagus with Real. I think he’s had a decent career…
I mean he’s played over 350 games for Madrid during a period of great success. I’m pretty sure you can call that a “factor”Was he actually even an actual factor in that though? By good career I mean that Thiago has gone on to establish himself as one of the World's best midfielders whereas Isco has seemingly fallen off a cliff despite still being quite young.
He started in two CL finals and played >40 minutes in the other two. He averaged around 2500 minutes per season in his first five seasons and was something like the 12th man / joint 11th man on the squad.Was he actually even an actual factor in that though?
With no disrespect, considering you clearly would know more about a Madrid player than myself but I think we fan both agree minutes don't = influence.He started in two CL finals and played >40 minutes in the other two. He averaged around 2500 minutes per season in his first five seasons.
Competition. Isco is a good player but not great and he plays in roles that used to be stacked at Real Madrid, with managers having to mainly choose between him, Ronaldo, Bale, Modric or Kroos. Thiago was in a more comfortable situation and had less chances to be compared negatively with his competition.What happened to him? I remember seeing him at Malaga, his ability in tight spaces and that curling shot he possessed was a thing to behold. I remember seeing him and Thiago boss it in the Euro u21 tournament and thought they were both the next two big midfielders. Whilst Thiago has gone on to have a good career, I haven't even heard Isco be mentioned in years.
Injuries?
He was very good. Probably slightly overrated by Spanish fans, but he definitely earned being that 11th/12th man.With no disrespect, considering you clearly would know more about a Madrid player than myself but I think we fan both agree minutes don't = influence.
How many of those seasons would you say he was performing at title winning level? Genuinely curious
Yep. Same as with Henderson's running style SAF and our medical staff spotted early that he would have a short career with his enormous head and small body.I think it's mainly down to his head being too large for his body
He played in a good team that’s clearly not the point of the thread.He’s won 2 leagues and 4 Champions Leagus with Real. I think he’s had a decent career…
Then the question becomes were the expectations accurate? I would say no because Isco was an attacking midfielder that didn't had the athletic tools to be significantly better than what he has done at Madrid, it's reminiscent of Riquelme who was a very enjoyable player at Villarreal who didn't had a place as a starter in one of the huge clubs.He played in a good team that’s clearly not the point of the thread.
He has not hit the heights that was expected of him on a personal level.
I don't agree with that. Isco had all the ability in the world but lacked the physicality. Problem with him was he never learned to use his skills efficiently. Xavi once criticized him famously for that.Then the question becomes were the expectations accurate? I would say no because Isco was an attacking midfielder that didn't had the athletic tools to be significantly better than what he has done at Madrid, it's reminiscent of Riquelme who was a very enjoyable player at Villarreal who didn't had a place as a starter in one of the huge clubs.
I mean every player who fails to live up to expectations then the expectations were wrong.Then the question becomes were the expectations accurate? I would say no because Isco was an attacking midfielder that didn't had the athletic tools to be significantly better than what he has done at Madrid, it's reminiscent of Riquelme who was a very enjoyable player at Villarreal who didn't had a place as a starter in one of the huge clubs.
Yeah, but was he even a big part of any of those titles? Doesn't seems that hard to stack titles on that RM side, especially when Ronaldo was on the team.He’s won 2 leagues and 4 Champions Leagus with Real. I think he’s had a decent career…
Which makes his case not curious. We observe players from the outside and have an incomplete set of data, we don't know how they actually process information, we don't know how they learn new things, we don't know their athletic limits and we don't know their personalities either. We tend to look at players age and apply a linear growth in most areas which is highly flawed and why most players don't match expectations, some do better and others do worse.I mean every player who fails to live up to expectations then the expectations were wrong.
Doesn’t make him a bad player, either. Spain were at the end or just finishing their golden generation so that probably didn’t help him from an expectations viewpoint.
What are you disagreeing with? I said that he lacked athletic abilities which you called physicality, so we agree on that. I didn't address the mental part because I don't know him but that's also an ability. So you essentially disagree with me but say that he had all the abilities in the world outside of physicality and mental capacity to play at a higher level. He basically didn't had all the abilities in the world.I don't agree with that. Isco had all the ability in the world but lacked the physicality. Problem with him was he never learned to use his skills efficiently. Xavi once criticized him famously for that.
I mean, you could argue that Isco is probably the best technician in the world and it wouldn't be a ridiculous statement. Surely such a talented player could have done better than he did, although he had two or three seasons at a very high level that are often forgotten over the general story.
That definitely is a ridiculous statement. But you could argue that he has the potential to be the best / one the best technicians in the world.I don't agree with that. Isco had all the ability in the world but lacked the physicality. Problem with him was he never learned to use his skills efficiently. Xavi once criticized him famously for that.
I mean, you could argue that Isco is probably the best technician in the world and it wouldn't be a ridiculous statement. Surely such a talented player could have done better than he did, although he had two or three seasons at a very high level that are often forgotten over the general story.
All of themWith no disrespect, considering you clearly would know more about a Madrid player than myself but I think we fan both agree minutes don't = influence.
How many of those seasons would you say he was performing at title winning level? Genuinely curious
Maybe our definitions of potential vary. For me, potential in the general sense means what a player could become with the right mind set and the necessary luck (injuries etc.). So for me, Isco had the potential to be a defining midfielder of his generation and it was not really unreasonable to think so.What are you disagreeing with? I said that he lacked athletic abilities which you called physicality, so we agree on that. I didn't address the mental part because I don't know him but that's also an ability. So you essentially disagree with me but say that he had all the abilities in the world outside of physicality and mental capacity to play at a higher level. He basically didn't had all the abilities in the world.
It really isn't. I don't think there are many professional footballers on the planet who can do what Isco can with a football. Some of his plays are really mindblowing.That definitely is a ridiculous statement. But you could argue that he has the potential to be the best / one the best technicians in the world.
He was. He played in every CL final, starting the last two.Yeah, but was he even a big part of any of those titles? Doesn't seems that hard to stack titles on that RM side, especially when Ronaldo was on the team.
Nope. Hes rarely mentioned for a reason.He played in a good team that’s clearly not the point of the thread.
He has not hit the heights that was expected of him on a personal level.
Perfect for Arsenal thenHe was sensational for a season, good for about two, then he got injured and, when coming back, gained a bit of weight. Since then he hasn't been the same player and also gained quite a strong reputation for being lazy, especially in training.
I didn't define potential and it wasn't the topic, the topic was expectations. I do not expect footballers or any athletes to have the right mind set, I do not expect them to be injury free over a 10 year period and I do not expect them to even have the capacity to fix all their flaws because only a few manage to do it. My expectations are that the vast majority of young players won't fulfil what we deem to be their potential and I also believe that our evaluation of potential is highly flawed because we are not insiders, we don't actually know the players.Maybe our definitions of potential vary. For me, potential in the general sense means what a player could become with the right mind set and the necessary luck (injuries etc.). So for me, Isco had the potential to be a defining midfielder of his generation and it was not really unreasonable to think so.
You mistake tricks for technical skill. His functional technique was good, but nothing amazingIt really isn't. I don't think there are many professional footballers on the planet who can do what Isco can with a football. Some of his plays are really mindblowing.
Not saying he definitely is since there are different types of technique but you can definitely make a point for him being the best. Outrageous skills and also very, very consistent at doing the basics, almost no heavy touches.
I don’t think this is the point of the thread in fairness. The OP was wondering why a player that promised so much seems to have fallen off the radar. I mean he’s 29 years old and should be at the peak of his footballing powers and yet he wasn’t even included in Spain’s squad for the Euros. And it’s not like Spain are overburdened with quality players like they were in the past.He’s won 2 leagues and 4 Champions Leagus with Real. I think he’s had a decent career…
I think this is nitpicking to be honest but let's leave it at that then.I didn't define potential and it wasn't the topic, the topic was expectations. I do not expect footballers or any athletes to have the right mind set, I do not expect them to be injury free over a 10 year period and I do not expect them to even have the capacity to fix all their flaws because only a few manage to do it. My expectations are that the vast majority of young players won't fulfil what we deem to be their potential and I also believe that our evaluation of potential is highly flawed because we are not insiders, we don't actually know the players.
