Decades Draft Tournament : KM vs Jayvin

[Jayvin]

So my side has stronger individuals, more proven partnerships, everyone is in their favoured position yet I'm losing because of some bizarre notion that my team wouldn't work together 'fluidly'?

I also find it strange people are talking endlessly about the supposed midfield mismatch. What about the mismatch on the wings? KM needs Schnellinger to supply the width on his left flank AND defend against Best and Cafu, how is he going to do that without limiting the influence of Beckenbauer by having him constantly covering?

If Beckenbauer is helping out with Best, and Ballack is on Robson as Anto says, then Kopa has all the space in the world to pick a pass or break forward and score himself. If Beckenbauer is covering Kopa, then Best and Giggs will run rampant. There are too many options in my side and I can't see KM dealing with my attacking threat.

 

[Jayvin]

I think it's a lot more simple than Anto is making out. If my side has the better individuals, more proven partnerships and it's "hard to see past the confidence you get when seeing Jayvin's lineup", then that's probably because my side is better. 9 times out of 10 the better side wins. It's not like KM's side is some superb catenaccio defensive machine that can stop Best, Kopa et al. He's trying to play me at my own attacking game, with inferior players.

 

[sajeev]

Surprised KM is winning, Jayvin has the better side

 

[crappycraperson]

I don't think either side is comfortably better than the other. On first look Jayvin's looks better but KM's got quality all over the pitch. Either side winning won't be an upset.

In the end I went for Jay, mainly because Robbo for me is always underrated in these drafts by many. Talk of Ballack cancelling him out is non sense for me. Also one may call it United fan bias, but I really do think Dalglish is not up there with others on the pitch. Liverpool's best player he may have been, but he is a level or two below the likes of Best, Laudrup, Law, Romario

 

[Jayvin]

Bump. Just reading through this thread again and Antohan has basically talked a load of nonsense. Trying to find weaknesses in my team that just aren't there. How did the attacking transition work when Man Utd had Robson-Ince as their central midfield pairing? Pretty damn well, and I've got far superior players to fill out the rest of the team than United did.

My side has great players in clearly defined roles, admittedly KM has a great side too, but the on the flanks there is a glaring mismatch. As AldoRaine stated earlier in the thread, Schnellinger (who seems to be tasked with patrolling the entire left flank on his own) hasn't got the greatest record up against Best - and this time the Northern Irishman has Cafu for support!

 

[KM]

I don't think there's a glaring mismatch at the flanks. As I said, you play with two out and out wingers but I play with one winger(whose goal scoring record is better than your winger) and one player who is one of the greatest player in the last 30 years or so.

 

[KM]

I don't think either side is comfortably better than the other. On first look Jayvin's looks better but KM's got quality all over the pitch. Either side winning won't be an upset.

In the end I went for Jay, mainly because Robbo for me is always underrated in these drafts by many. Talk of Ballack cancelling him out is non sense for me. Also one may call it United fan bias, but I really do think Dalglish is not up there with others on the pitch. Liverpool's best player he may have been, but he is a level or two below the likes of Best, Laudrup, Law, Romario

Interesting you think that mate, and I don't claim to be an expert or anything of them.

But I just did a google search on the Greatest Scottish Footballers ever and I got this as a result:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport...est-scottish-footballers-the-top-5-x.20597610

 

[Jayvin]

I don't think there's a glaring mismatch at the flanks. As I said, you play with two out and out wingers but I play with one winger(whose goal scoring record is better than your winger) and one player who is one of the greatest player in the last 30 years or so.

There IS a mismatch, no one in their right mind would say Hamrin was a better player than George Best. Also, I can't see Laudrup helping out Schnellinger much, which means Cafu and Best would destroy him - unless Beckenbauer is covering him constantly - but that means Kopa has free reign to control the middle.

I think only two (maybe 3) players from your side would get into my starting eleven and that says it all.

 

[KM]

There IS a mismatch, no one in their right mind would say Hamrin was a better player than George Best. Also, I can't see Laudrup helping out Schnellinger much, which means Cafu and Best would destroy him - unless Beckenbauer is covering him constantly - but that means Kopa has free reign to control the middle.

I think only two (maybe 3) players from your side would get into my starting eleven and that says it all.

Nope. Sorry, not having that.

 

[Jayvin]

Nope. Sorry, not having that.

Beckenbauer, Schnellinger and maybe Stam. Laudrup as well possibly, but I think he gets overrated quite a bit on this forum and I'm happy to take Kopa over him.

 

[Gio]

A few thoughts:

• Loads of natural and proven partnerships across the park
• Casillas and Jennings are well matched for the attacks they will be facing.
• Cafu and Best will surely get some joy up against Schnellinger
• Dalglish is perenially under-rated on this forum and I can see him holding it up well against Jayvin's central pair
• Hamrin's goal return is exceptional for a wide attacker and he is likely to cause Irwin some problems

Finding them difficult to separate to be honest.

 

[Brwned]

The biggest mismatch in the game is Hamrin v Irwin.

 

[Jayvin]

The biggest mismatch in the game is Hamrin v Irwin.

I disagree. Irwin was very solid defensively, and Giggs is more than capable of tracking back and helping out his fullback. Best against Schnellinger is a bigger mismatch, since the German is all alone on that flank against a player he's struggled to deal with before.

 

[Jayvin]

Laudrup of course. The point though was that you had two different approaches from either wing. Best could be more of a playmaker relative to Giggs, but not to the level of Laudrup.

The comparison to be made is of two out and out wingers (Hamrin and Giggs) and two wide players who could provide an alternative route (Laudrup and Best). Yes, Best could just go and do the same out and out winger job Giggs is doing, but it is in the options that I think the balance of the game may tilt one way or the other.

I don't need Best to be a playmaker, I've got one of the best playmakers in the history of football in Kopa. Best is there to team up with Cafu and absolutely destroy Schnellinger, who lacks support. Sure Laudrup on the left gives KM a different option, but it also takes away KM's ability to truly get at Cafu like a proper winger would, leaving the Brazillian free to rampage forward.

 

[Theon]

That's another absurd comment from Antohan.. On what planet would anyone send Best out to be a playmaker?

That's up there with Ballack cancelling out Robbo

 

[Jayvin]

Yeah going to bed just as Anto hit turbo was probably a bad idea. He goes a bit mental in these draft threads and invents a whole load of nonsense scenarios which he then judges the match upon.

Oh well, my favourite part of these tournaments is always the actual drafting process anyway. Having said that I wouldn't mind progressing past the first round one day...

 

[KM]

Hmm, I don't think one man's vote matters too much.

 

[KM]

Phew that was close. Glad to have won it!

 

[Balu]

Went with KM in the end, the setup is perfect for Beckenbauer to run the show (I think he hasn't been used as good in any of the draft games I followed on here), for Laudrup to do his thing and for Romario to score. Like most users said, it's really close though, both teams are brilliant.

 

[crappycraperson]

Interesting you think that mate, and I don't claim to be an expert or anything of them.

But I just did a google search on the Greatest Scottish Footballers ever and I got this as a result:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport...est-scottish-footballers-the-top-5-x.20597610

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2994207/Incomparable-Law-hailed-as-Scotlands-finest.html

 

[antohan]

That's another absurd comment from Antohan.. On what planet would anyone send Best out to be a playmaker?

That's up there with Ballack cancelling out Robbo

You always interpret anything i say the complete wrong way around. I will just stop replying, it's hopeless.

 

[Theon]

Right

I mean where did I get the idea that you thought Ballack would cancel out Robbo?

I assumed Ballack and Robbo cancelled each other out

 

[antohan]

Jayvin, it was only ever my intention to come in cast my vote and explain it. For some reason there was an immediate flurry of activity and the game got turned on its head. It was never my intention for that to happen with you away. It was actually very quiet for ages before that so it was quite surprising how it turned out.

I do stand by my reasons though, Beckenbauer would have ran the game and that made the difference to me.

 

[antohan]

Right

I mean where did I get the idea that you thought Ballack would cancel out Robbo?

I have already explained i wasnt comparing quality but essentially two b2b mids who weren't going to be key to the game imo. I think neuther robbo nor ballack held the key to this game and any quality differential between them wasnt going to make much difference.

Its my opnion. Explain to me why those two are the most important on the pitch and robbo being better willwin it. Go try come up with a convincing argument as to how those two will be what the game revolves around.

Re best i was saying either jayvin had wingers on both sides (one dimensional approach) or you had to allow for best's playmaking being able to provide alternative approaches. You know, like you insisted ronnie wouldn't just run for goal in a game primed for that.

 

[Cutch]

Missed out on this one. Couldn't really split these 2 tbh, probably marginally siding with KM.

 

[antohan]

I'll be away for the weekend so making my vote now.

I find Jayvin's side sexier, probably with the stronger individuals all doing things they are very competent at. I would like to see it once/if he can add Charlton to it.

But when you dig deeper you can see Beckenbauer handling the transition, working the ball well with Laudrup and Dalglish, and thus Romario getting the sort of service that made him unstoppable.

It's strange but despite there being more established partnerships in Jayvin's side I can see him reduced to isolated individual efforts rather than as a fluid team working together. I put it largely down to an uninspiring midfield two TBH: Beckenbauer will own this game.

This I reckon is as balanced a reason for voting as I've ever given.

 

[antohan]

I think the problem is none of us really like Ballack that much Balu

It was a lot easier for me to wrap my head around it once I assumed Ballack and Robbo cancelled each other out and looked at what everyone else was doing.

Handy to omit the key bit so you can spend two pages being outraged, isn't it Theon?

 

[Gio]

Interesting you think that mate, and I don't claim to be an expert or anything of them.

But I just did a google search on the Greatest Scottish Footballers ever and I got this as a result:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport...est-scottish-footballers-the-top-5-x.20597610

The consensus view up here is that Dalglish is our greatest ever player.

As for the Ballack argument, I suspect he'd be rated higher had he played his peak years (Leverkusen and Bayern) in the Premiership, rather than with the yard of pace he'd lost at Chelsea.

Oh well, my favourite part of these tournaments is always the actual drafting process anyway. Having said that I wouldn't mind progressing past the first round one day...

You invariably draft well but tend to get harshly bombed out due to a lack of familiarity with your top players or when facing a tough draw.

 

[Theon]

Handy to omit the key bit so you can spend two pages being outraged, isn't it Theon?

I've copied what you said, that Ballack and Robson would cancel each other out, which is what I found ridiculous. The fact that you will 'look at what everyone else is doing' doesn't change anything - you still said that Ballack would cancel out Robson.

I've just disagreed with that (because its mental) but you've just gone off on one again. For someone who can be so argumentative you're very sensitive when someone disagrees with you.

Robson's up there with the best United have ever had, he will bring far more to any game than Ballack would

 

[Brwned]

Theon, you're just jumping at the chance to pick holes in his points, just leave it there. His overall point was this:

Sort of, yes, they are both doing much the same thing. One is better but neither will be key to the outcome.

 

[Theon]

Theon, you're just jumping at the chance to pick holes in his points

That's not what I'm doing at all Brwned, and I did leave it.

Anto has come out with some wierd stuff in this game so theres nothing wrong with disagreeing.