Declan Rice

Discussion in 'Transfer Forum' started by roonster09, Mar 29, 2019.

  1. Jun 6, 2019

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    feck me, here we go. I have an agenda. Go on then, explain to me what stock I have in this, specifically. The difference is Rashford has obvious talent.
  2. Jun 6, 2019

    Cliche Guevara Full Member

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    I know. What the feck does McTominay have to do to get a game for England?

    Oh no you didn’t...
  3. Jun 6, 2019

    izec Full Member

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    Hard to judge him. Even as a DM nowadays you need to do more at a top club/team. I think he can have a role at a club playing more passive on the ball and reactionary, but if you want to enjoy possession and create chances from midfield, i think you will struggle with Rice as your DM/CM (depending on the other players of course).

    He is still young and only entered the game basically. But something is missing for me when he has the ball. It is not the fact that he plays simple or basic or safe most of the time, it is when you need to step up, your team needs a goal or you get pressed where you have to show your on the ball ability, thats what he is missing for me currently. He isnt ready for a top club, should stay another few years and learn at West Ham and then see what he can do at a top club.
  4. Jun 6, 2019

    ostentatious New Member

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    Why the tone? You made this comment:

    To which he made a relevant reply, with the stats which show that he moved the ball forward with about half his passes.

    He didn't claim that Rice is the real deal because of those passes, did he? He just gave you a stat which was relevant to your initial comment.

    Not sure, but it’s spelt statistician.
  5. Jun 6, 2019

    sherrinford Full Member

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    But his fellow players do not? I only mentioned the Young Player award as an aside. He was voted player of the season by his teammates - that couldn’t possibly happen if what you say is true.

    I don’t think he’s too dissimilar to Matuidi, Khedira, Javi Martinez, Liverpool’s midfield, Bakayoko, Makelele, Cambiasso, Mascherano, (Mahamadou or Lassana) Diarra, Gattuso, Ambrosini, Marcos Senna, Hargreaves, Nigel De Jong, Herrera in terms of his ability and inclinations with his passing.
  6. Jun 6, 2019

    Kag Full Member

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    His main attributes are attributes that Phil Jones has, albeit slightly more comfortable and not made out of glass. They’re small details that form only part of what a quality midfielder for United is and should be in that position.

    My comparison is obvious. De Jong and Rice work in similar areas of the pitch. One of them is a top, top player that has just about every attribute needed to perform at the highest level. The other is good at breaking up play. It’s why one is at Barcelona and the other puts a graft in for West Ham.
  7. Jun 6, 2019

    lsd Full Member

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    What do I care about England ?

    Now I'll be called stupid
  8. Jun 6, 2019

    Cliche Guevara Full Member

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    Probably about as much as me.
  9. Jun 6, 2019

    Scholsey2004 Full Member

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    White text stupid.
  10. Jun 6, 2019

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    Of course it could.

    You’ve managed to give me a nice list there, none of which are currently playing DM for their team, and how you’ve called some of those players limited is incredible. I’m baffled how you’ve compared him to these players.
  11. Jun 6, 2019

    lsd Full Member

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    It's for the easily amused
  12. Jun 6, 2019

    Adnan Full Member

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    I don't really know alot about Rice, but from YouTube he looks a destroyer type that we could do with. Someone who provides high energy with and without the ball.

    But it's interesting to read the opposing views. I guess i'll have to watch him closer next season.
  13. Jun 6, 2019

    FirstTouch New Member

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    James Garner in talent terms is much better than Rice just as he is better than Longstaff and only 2/3 years younger so if we buy either of them we will lose the superior player Garner.

    Hopefully if we're after Rice West Ham quote us £80 million and we rightly tell them to feck off.
  14. Jun 6, 2019

    Red00012 Full Member

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    My apologies Declan.
  15. Jun 6, 2019

    Kaglish10 Full Member

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    We don't need a destroyer. We just need mobile high intensity technical midfielders. City had that in Gundogan/Fernandinho, Bernardo and Silva. Even Liverpool don't have one but mobile midfielders who are solid on the ball.
  16. Jun 7, 2019

    Adnan Full Member

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    Who would you suggest?
  17. Jun 7, 2019

    sherrinford Full Member

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    It could not. A player putting in average performances all season doesn’t win an award for individual performances over the season.

    You only asked for a ‘midfielder as limited as Rice’, you did not specify the holding role. Are you implying that it is more acceptable to be limited in a more advanced midfield position as opposed to the anchor? That players who have occupied that role historically don’t count? Because? And what exactly do you find incredible? Which of those players is/ was so good at passing that it astounds you to see them considered limited?
  18. Jun 7, 2019

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    Yeah alright, and McTominay was our best player last year.

    I also specified 'playing for a top team.' Makalele is 46 for God's sake. Ambrosini started playing first team football in the early 90s. Ask yourself why you couldn't find more recent examples. Do you genuinely think football hasn't moved on since then? With the exception for Bakayoko, who bombed at a top club, those few current players you've mentioned have more about them on the ball than Rice.

    In terms of positional play, the anchor absolutely does need to be proficient on the ball. He is the link between the defense and the midfield.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  19. Jun 7, 2019

    Hoof The Ball Full Member

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    Yep! With the amount of high pressing that is present in the modern game, an anchor playing who doesn't have proficiency on the ball will quickly become the weak point to exploit for opposition teams. Guaranteed.
  20. Jun 7, 2019

    hobbers Full Member

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    This thread tldr: Rice isn't good enough for us if we want to be a CL side again.
  21. Jun 7, 2019

    Kaglish10 Full Member

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    Rodri, Tonali, Van De Beek.
  22. Jun 7, 2019

    Adnan Full Member

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    Can't see us signing Rodrigo and we have Garner coming through the ranks who should be given a chance ahead of Tonali, who if i'm not mistaken hasn't even played top tier football yet with Brescia.
  23. Jun 7, 2019

    Kaglish10 Full Member

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    You're right about Garner and I actually like him too but Tonali has more experience going up against adult than him and also has something unique about his passing skills. Verratti was also at Pescara in Serie B before he went to PSG yet looked good in the CL.

    However, if Garner can make the step up, why not? I guess we will see in preseason.
  24. Jun 7, 2019

    Cantonagotmehere Full Member

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    I love how the Caf over reacts to everything, all the time. It's amazing, should be a social media science experiment. It probably already is, I hope.
  25. Jun 7, 2019

    Jibbs New Member

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    Declan Rice is a quality player, who will learn forward passing and sending through balls as he matures. I think he has qualities of both Jones and Carrick if you compare him with United players... just that Carrick used to play much forward at this stage in his career. Now if somebody wants a very refined player than Rodri is available for 70m. I won't mind any of the two along with Rabiot to complete our midfield. In case Pogba leaves, add Bruno Fernandes or James Maddison in the mix too.
  26. Jun 7, 2019

    hobbers Full Member

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    Sounds about as convincing as those who once said Lukaku would learn how to have a decent first touch. You either have it or you don't.

    If you want a general rule in football, positive attributes (dribbling, forward passes, shooting, creating) are more innate and its the defensive and tactical attributes that come with time. Not the other way around.
  27. Jun 7, 2019

    The Nani New Member

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    I’m on the Sander Berge train now. Can’t seem to get excited about anyone else. Looks a versatile, imposing player.

    I’ve tried to get on board the Rice transfer and I can still see its merit to a degree. But I’m just so worried he’s more limited than AWB technically.
  28. Jun 7, 2019

    Sterling Archer Full Member

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    You're better off ignoring them. Pellegrini rates him as on track to be as good as Mascherano if not better. Pretty good review from a very respectable manager.
  29. Jun 7, 2019

    NoPace Full Member

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    He's a center back. I think he will be a very good one
  30. Jun 7, 2019

    Fer Full Member

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    Agreed. If Felix and Fernandes have a good game while De Ligt and Sancho look awful, we would be seeing opposite reactions.

    Sometimes it seems that one game is more important than what they did during the whole season.

    But I have to agree with them that most of the players on the transfer market are overpriced, which is not a surprise.
  31. Jun 7, 2019

    lysglimt Full Member

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    What we need is someone who can actually win the ball in midfield - and give it to Pogba. Now that is Declan Rice.
  32. Jun 7, 2019

    Adnan Full Member

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    The question is, could Fosu Mensah do a similar job as a potential DM?

    Personally I've always thought of him as a DM and was dissapointed he was deployed as a RB. I know many have given up on him, but I feel he could become a destroyer like Ndidi/Rice.
  33. Jun 7, 2019

    Patrick08 New Member

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    He wont give the ball to pogba in right positions under high pressure. We struggle to create from deep under high press and modern football takes advantage of that.

    He is a type of holding midfielder likes on Tottenham have in their midfield right now and they struggle to create under high press and go long or sideways. That's not a kind of football we should be playing as a team wanting to attack and play dominant football.

    Yes midfield solidity is important but not at the cost of being not that good in attack. We need both in our team.
  34. Jun 7, 2019

    AKDevil Full Member

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    Noticed this however I think the issue is when he is played as the single, deepest central midfielder. For a lot of the season he has played in a midfield pairing and he’s able to get around and break stuff up but when he’s on his own it’s a bit harder to be the sole person responsible for doing that. Noticed in West Ham’s game v Chelsea when Hazard scored that solo goal. First half he was overrun on his own the Pellegrini changed it at half time, gave him a partner and he was significantly better in the second half.
  35. Jun 7, 2019

    Hawks2008 Full Member

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    It's really not that simple. Problem with having a DM with such a limited passing range is that as we've seen with our current midfielders they cannot find our more advanced players through the lines. Pogba and our other advanced players have to come deep to collect the ball. This has an effect on how quick we can transition into attack, and by the Pogba comes to get the ball he is not in a position to hurt the other team, and the other team has gotten back into shape. A more expansive passer is needed at the base of midfield.
  36. Jun 7, 2019

    The Nani New Member

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    We need players who are capable on the ball first and foremost.
  37. Jun 7, 2019

    Dan_F Full Member

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    And then Pogba gets doubled teamed with no forward passing options. He try’s to take on a defender to make some space, as the only other option is Smalling, he gets dispossessed and everyone looses their minds.

    We need other defenders/midfielders that are comfortable on the ball and understand where move. That’s how you create space for Pogba.
  38. Jun 7, 2019

    Robbie Boy Full Member

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    :lol:

    You’re a strange one Dants.
  39. Jun 7, 2019

    Kaglish10 Full Member

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    I don't think so. He's been struggling with his positional play also. But he could make a solid defensive box-box midfielder.
  40. Jun 7, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    Your typical overrated English talent who will cost premium compared to other options.