Declan Rice

ivaldo

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No it doesnt, Schneiderlin clearly couldnt cope, its a mentality issue. Rice's mentality is clearly one of his strong points. I know you have agenda, same stuff I see about Rashford and people making their mind up about him at the age of 20/21
feck me, here we go. I have an agenda. Go on then, explain to me what stock I have in this, specifically. The difference is Rashford has obvious talent.
 

Cliche Guevara

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Another overrated London based player that the media love hyping up .

McTominay is better . Hopefully some other team will be so stupid to take him and not us
I know. What the feck does McTominay have to do to get a game for England?

Oh no you didn’t...
 

izec

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Hard to judge him. Even as a DM nowadays you need to do more at a top club/team. I think he can have a role at a club playing more passive on the ball and reactionary, but if you want to enjoy possession and create chances from midfield, i think you will struggle with Rice as your DM/CM (depending on the other players of course).

He is still young and only entered the game basically. But something is missing for me when he has the ball. It is not the fact that he plays simple or basic or safe most of the time, it is when you need to step up, your team needs a goal or you get pressed where you have to show your on the ball ability, thats what he is missing for me currently. He isnt ready for a top club, should stay another few years and learn at West Ham and then see what he can do at a top club.
 

ostentatious

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Are you England’s statican?
Why the tone? You made this comment:

Easy to have a high pass completion when all you need is pass backwards.
To which he made a relevant reply, with the stats which show that he moved the ball forward with about half his passes.

Behave, he had 28 forward passes out of 54 he’s the real deal :houllier:
He didn't claim that Rice is the real deal because of those passes, did he? He just gave you a stat which was relevant to your initial comment.

Are you England’s statican?
Not sure, but it’s spelt statistician.
 

sherrinford

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Fans are excited because they’ve got a young player coming through the ranks, it’s happens all the while. Please point me towards a midfielder as limited as Rice playing for a top team.
But his fellow players do not? I only mentioned the Young Player award as an aside. He was voted player of the season by his teammates - that couldn’t possibly happen if what you say is true.

I don’t think he’s too dissimilar to Matuidi, Khedira, Javi Martinez, Liverpool’s midfield, Bakayoko, Makelele, Cambiasso, Mascherano, (Mahamadou or Lassana) Diarra, Gattuso, Ambrosini, Marcos Senna, Hargreaves, Nigel De Jong, Herrera in terms of his ability and inclinations with his passing.
 

Kag

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But nothing you stated has anything to do with what his main attributes are.
Why are you comparing him to De Jong and why Barcelona bought one and not the other :confused: they are not even the same type of player
His main attributes are attributes that Phil Jones has, albeit slightly more comfortable and not made out of glass. They’re small details that form only part of what a quality midfielder for United is and should be in that position.

My comparison is obvious. De Jong and Rice work in similar areas of the pitch. One of them is a top, top player that has just about every attribute needed to perform at the highest level. The other is good at breaking up play. It’s why one is at Barcelona and the other puts a graft in for West Ham.
 

ivaldo

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But his fellow players do not? I only mentioned the Young Player award as an aside. He was voted player of the season by his teammates - that couldn’t possibly happen if what you say is true.

I don’t think he’s too dissimilar to Matuidi, Khedira, Javi Martinez, Liverpool’s midfield, Bakayoko, Makelele, Cambiasso, Mascherano, (Mahamadou or Lassana) Diarra, Gattuso, Ambrosini, Marcos Senna, Hargreaves, Nigel De Jong, Herrera in terms of his ability and inclinations with his passing.
Of course it could.

You’ve managed to give me a nice list there, none of which are currently playing DM for their team, and how you’ve called some of those players limited is incredible. I’m baffled how you’ve compared him to these players.
 

Adnan

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I don't really know alot about Rice, but from YouTube he looks a destroyer type that we could do with. Someone who provides high energy with and without the ball.

But it's interesting to read the opposing views. I guess i'll have to watch him closer next season.
 

FirstTouch

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James Garner in talent terms is much better than Rice just as he is better than Longstaff and only 2/3 years younger so if we buy either of them we will lose the superior player Garner.

Hopefully if we're after Rice West Ham quote us £80 million and we rightly tell them to feck off.
 
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Red00012

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Why the tone? You made this comment:


To which he made a relevant reply, with the stats which show that he moved the ball forward with about half his passes.


He didn't claim that Rice is the real deal because of those passes, did he? He just gave you a stat which was relevant to your initial comment.


Not sure, but it’s spelt statistician.
My apologies Declan.
 

Kaglish10

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I don't really know alot about Rice, but from YouTube he looks a destroyer type that we could do with. Someone who provides high energy with and without the ball.

But it's interesting to read the opposing views. I guess i'll have to watch him closer next season.
We don't need a destroyer. We just need mobile high intensity technical midfielders. City had that in Gundogan/Fernandinho, Bernardo and Silva. Even Liverpool don't have one but mobile midfielders who are solid on the ball.
 

sherrinford

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Of course it could.

You’ve managed to give me a nice list there, none of which are currently playing DM for their team, and how you’ve called some of those players limited is incredible. I’m baffled how you’ve compared him to these players.
It could not. A player putting in average performances all season doesn’t win an award for individual performances over the season.

You only asked for a ‘midfielder as limited as Rice’, you did not specify the holding role. Are you implying that it is more acceptable to be limited in a more advanced midfield position as opposed to the anchor? That players who have occupied that role historically don’t count? Because? And what exactly do you find incredible? Which of those players is/ was so good at passing that it astounds you to see them considered limited?
 

ivaldo

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It could not. A player putting in average performances all season doesn’t win an award for individual performances over the season.

You only asked for a ‘midfielder as limited as Rice’, you did not specify the holding role. Are you implying that it is more acceptable to be limited in a more advanced midfield position as opposed to the anchor? That players who have occupied that role historically don’t count? Because? And what exactly do you find incredible? Which of those players is/ was so good at passing that it astounds you to see them considered limited?
Yeah alright, and McTominay was our best player last year.

I also specified 'playing for a top team.' Makalele is 46 for God's sake. Ambrosini started playing first team football in the early 90s. Ask yourself why you couldn't find more recent examples. Do you genuinely think football hasn't moved on since then? With the exception for Bakayoko, who bombed at a top club, those few current players you've mentioned have more about them on the ball than Rice.

In terms of positional play, the anchor absolutely does need to be proficient on the ball. He is the link between the defense and the midfield.
 
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Hoof The Ball

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Yeah alright, and McTominay was our best player last year.

I also specified 'playing for a top team.' Makalele is 46 for God's sake. Ambrosini started playing first team football in the early 90s. Ask yourself why you couldn't find more recent examples. Do you genuinely think football hasn't moved on since then? With the exception for Bakayoko, who bombed at a top club, those few current players you've mentioned have more about them on the ball than Rice.

In terms of positional play, the anchor absolutely does need to be proficient on the ball. He is the link between the defense and the midfield.
Yep! With the amount of high pressing that is present in the modern game, an anchor playing who doesn't have proficiency on the ball will quickly become the weak point to exploit for opposition teams. Guaranteed.
 

hobbers

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This thread tldr: Rice isn't good enough for us if we want to be a CL side again.
 

Kaglish10

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Can't see us signing Rodrigo and we have Garner coming through the ranks who should be given a chance ahead of Tonali, who if i'm not mistaken hasn't even played top tier football yet with Brescia.
You're right about Garner and I actually like him too but Tonali has more experience going up against adult than him and also has something unique about his passing skills. Verratti was also at Pescara in Serie B before he went to PSG yet looked good in the CL.

However, if Garner can make the step up, why not? I guess we will see in preseason.
 

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I love how the Caf over reacts to everything, all the time. It's amazing, should be a social media science experiment. It probably already is, I hope.
 

Jibbs

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Declan Rice is a quality player, who will learn forward passing and sending through balls as he matures. I think he has qualities of both Jones and Carrick if you compare him with United players... just that Carrick used to play much forward at this stage in his career. Now if somebody wants a very refined player than Rodri is available for 70m. I won't mind any of the two along with Rabiot to complete our midfield. In case Pogba leaves, add Bruno Fernandes or James Maddison in the mix too.
 

hobbers

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Declan Rice is a quality player, who will learn forward passing and sending through balls as he matures. .
Sounds about as convincing as those who once said Lukaku would learn how to have a decent first touch. You either have it or you don't.

If you want a general rule in football, positive attributes (dribbling, forward passes, shooting, creating) are more innate and its the defensive and tactical attributes that come with time. Not the other way around.
 

The Nani

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Who would you suggest?
I’m on the Sander Berge train now. Can’t seem to get excited about anyone else. Looks a versatile, imposing player.

I’ve tried to get on board the Rice transfer and I can still see its merit to a degree. But I’m just so worried he’s more limited than AWB technically.
 

Sterling Archer

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I don't really know alot about Rice, but from YouTube he looks a destroyer type that we could do with. Someone who provides high energy with and without the ball.

But it's interesting to read the opposing views. I guess i'll have to watch him closer next season.
You're better off ignoring them. Pellegrini rates him as on track to be as good as Mascherano if not better. Pretty good review from a very respectable manager.
 

Fer

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I love how the Caf over reacts to everything, all the time. It's amazing, should be a social media science experiment. It probably already is, I hope.
Agreed. If Felix and Fernandes have a good game while De Ligt and Sancho look awful, we would be seeing opposite reactions.

Sometimes it seems that one game is more important than what they did during the whole season.

But I have to agree with them that most of the players on the transfer market are overpriced, which is not a surprise.
 

lysglimt

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What we need is someone who can actually win the ball in midfield - and give it to Pogba. Now that is Declan Rice.
 

Adnan

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The question is, could Fosu Mensah do a similar job as a potential DM?

Personally I've always thought of him as a DM and was dissapointed he was deployed as a RB. I know many have given up on him, but I feel he could become a destroyer like Ndidi/Rice.
 

Patrick08

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What we need is someone who can actually win the ball in midfield - and give it to Pogba. Now that is Declan Rice.
He wont give the ball to pogba in right positions under high pressure. We struggle to create from deep under high press and modern football takes advantage of that.

He is a type of holding midfielder likes on Tottenham have in their midfield right now and they struggle to create under high press and go long or sideways. That's not a kind of football we should be playing as a team wanting to attack and play dominant football.

Yes midfield solidity is important but not at the cost of being not that good in attack. We need both in our team.
 

AKDevil

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Be nice if he started breaking the play up a bit more then. If you're in the team for that sole reason, you need to be a heck a lot better at it than he's currently demonstrating.
Noticed this however I think the issue is when he is played as the single, deepest central midfielder. For a lot of the season he has played in a midfield pairing and he’s able to get around and break stuff up but when he’s on his own it’s a bit harder to be the sole person responsible for doing that. Noticed in West Ham’s game v Chelsea when Hazard scored that solo goal. First half he was overrun on his own the Pellegrini changed it at half time, gave him a partner and he was significantly better in the second half.
 

Hawks2008

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What we need is someone who can actually win the ball in midfield - and give it to Pogba. Now that is Declan Rice.
It's really not that simple. Problem with having a DM with such a limited passing range is that as we've seen with our current midfielders they cannot find our more advanced players through the lines. Pogba and our other advanced players have to come deep to collect the ball. This has an effect on how quick we can transition into attack, and by the Pogba comes to get the ball he is not in a position to hurt the other team, and the other team has gotten back into shape. A more expansive passer is needed at the base of midfield.
 

Dan_F

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What we need is someone who can actually win the ball in midfield - and give it to Pogba. Now that is Declan Rice.
And then Pogba gets doubled teamed with no forward passing options. He try’s to take on a defender to make some space, as the only other option is Smalling, he gets dispossessed and everyone looses their minds.

We need other defenders/midfielders that are comfortable on the ball and understand where move. That’s how you create space for Pogba.
 

Kaglish10

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The question is, could Fosu Mensah do a similar job as a potential DM?

Personally I've always thought of him as a DM and was dissapointed he was deployed as a RB. I know many have given up on him, but I feel he could become a destroyer like Ndidi/Rice.
I don't think so. He's been struggling with his positional play also. But he could make a solid defensive box-box midfielder.
 

Enigma_87

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Your typical overrated English talent who will cost premium compared to other options.