Rice pudding club
Rice pudding club
Fred and McTominay can both make it as hard-working central midfielders, but as a defensive midfielder, they are not close to Rice.Agree with this. Looks a decent player but I haven't watched him and thought yeh that's what we need.
Good prospect though.
No. His ground coverage is minimal compared to Kante. If anything, he’s going to get thicker, not quicker.He'll never be a Keane but will be a Kante in a year or two.
Not even close to Doucoure, Sissoko, Fernandinho, Henderson, Torreira, Guendouzi as a DM.Might not be the all action high energy or spraying and dictating player that is eye catching, but its understated his importance is for a teams structure due to how good he is at reading the game. He's already becoming one of the best players around at being in the right position
Yeah I think Rice and a creative CM would certainly be an upgrade on what we currently have thereIt's hard to imagine that Declan Rice is only 20. The guy covered every blade of grass today. I think if United could buy smartly and go after Declan Rice and Bruno Fernandes who the big teams aren't considering. We could get them and also spend money on a RB and CB and possibly a RW.
Saul would be big money which would mean we couldn't get Koulibaly & Sancho tooRice, Pogba and Saul would be a decent midfield.
If Rice definitely won't be as good as these players in a few years when he catches up with them in age, then how come you weren't on here 3 years ago constantly banging on about Torreira, the new midfield sensation at Sampdoria that we should sign, when Torreira was 20 years old like Rice?Not even close to Doucoure, Sissoko, Fernandinho, Henderson, Torreira, Guendouzi as a DM.
The DM position is moving away from thumpers like Rice and more towards quick, skilled players who cover a lot of ground and are brave tacklers. I’m pretty sure Rice is not going to get quicker.If Rice definitely won't be as good as these players in a few years when he catches up with them in age, then how come you weren't on here 3 years ago constantly banging on about Torreira, the new midfield sensation at Sampdoria that we should sign, when Torreira was 20 years old like Rice?
So who are the top clubs? Surely Liverpool are one. They're top of the leagueHis vista and passing range isn't good enough. We already have Fred and McTominay as hard working midfielders.
If we want to keep Pogba ( and attract other world class players ), we shouldn't keep signing average midfielders like that. The tops clubs don't have 4 or 5 workhorses and 1 footballer in their midfield ffs.
Rice was one of the quickest players in midfield today. Fred and Pogba maybe a bit quickerThe DM position is moving away from thumpers like Rice and more towards quick, skilled players who cover a lot of ground and are brave tacklers. I’m pretty sure Rice is not going to get quicker.
This is a thread on Declan Rice and how the forum rates him. I gave four reasons why I don’t see him becoming a top DM. I’m not sure lack of comments on Torreira four years ago is even relevant.
I could be wrong, but that’s my opinion. He’ll be a CB within 2-3 years.
So who are the top clubs? Surely Liverpool are one. They're top of the league
Premier league
Liverpool
Milner :
12 games in CM, from those he averages 2.5 tackles per 90, 1.5 interceptions
and 1.2 clearances per 90 mins. 66.7 total passes, 1.9 key passes, 2.7 aerials per 90,
and 2 goals so far this season. Clearly a hard worker.
Fabinho :
17 games in CM/DM, from those he averages 2.5 tackles per 90, 1.1 interceptions
and 1 clearance per 90 mins. 67.5 total passes, 0.9 key passes, 2.2 aerials per 90,
and 0 goals so far this season. A decently hard worker.
Wijnaldum :
28 games in CM/DM, actually doesn't do a lot defensively. Has contributed more
in attack, running and on the ball. Not sure he does enough to be considered a
hard worker.
Henderson :
15 games in CM/DM, from those he averages 2.1 tackles per 90, 1.1 interceptions
and 0.5 clearances per 90 mins. 81.3 total passes, 0.4 key passes, 1.8 aerials, and
0 goals so far this season. Another decently hard worker.
Keita :
9 games in CM/DM, from those he averages 2.3 tackles per 90, 0.8 interceptions
and 0.2 clearances per 90 mins. 70.6 total passes, 0.6 key passes, 1.4 successful dribbles,
1.4 aerials and 1 goal so far this season. A third decently hard worker.
United
Pogba :
24 games in CM/DM, 1.5 tackles per 90, 0.4 interceptions and 1.2 clearances per 90.
60.5 total passes, 1.5 key passes, 1.8 successful dribbles, 3.8 aerials and
9 goals from the CM/DM position.
7 of the 9 goals were penalties, 1 from open play and 1 from a set piece.
I'd say at best he's in the same category as Wijnaldum, not doing much defensively but
good output going forward. Just not enough to be considered a hard worker.
Ander :
14 games in CM/DM, 3.6 tackles per 90, 2.7 interceptions and 1.4 clearances per 90.
62.8 total passes, 1 key pass, 1.1 aerials per 90 mins. 2 goals so far this season.
Clearly a very hard worker
Fred :
11 games in CM/DM, 2.7 tackles per 90, 1.5 interceptions and 0.8 clearances per 90.
64.8 total passes, 1.1 key passes, 1.5 aerials per 90 mins. 1 goal so far this season.
Clearly a hard worker
McTominay :
5 games in CM/DM, 1.3 tackles per 90, 1.6 interceptions and 2.2 clearances per 90.
43.6 total passes, 0.0 key passes, 7.3 aerials per 90 mins. 1 goal so far this season.
Not that hard a worker in his premier league minutes so far this season.
Obviously he's had some good games against good teams in Europe so we know he can do
a bit better than he has done in the league so far. But those are just a handful of
games too so we dont know if hes going to be like his league performances, or those
big game performances if he's playing on a weekly basis.
Matic :
24 games in CM/DM, 1.8 tackles per 90, 1.1 interceptions and 2 clearances per 90.
67.4 total passes, 0.5 key passes, 3.4 aerials per 90 mins. He has 1 goal so far
this season.
Not a very hard worker. Generally he's been a harder worker when we have the ball
but this season he doesn't even excel in that area. He's only had a month or two
of form the entire season. So certainly not a hard working player.
So Liverpool who are top of the league currently have 1 hard worker,
3 decently hard workers and then Wijnaldum perhaps a bit less hard working
overall.
United who are 5th in the league currently have 1 very hard worker, 1 hard worker,
2 not very hard workers and McTominay who hasnt been that hard working in the league
but has looked decently hard working in Europe.
Seemingly the very hard worker is leaving the club in the summer for PSG,
at that point we'll just have 1 hard worker, if we're lucky 1 decently hard worker if
McTominay can play like he does in the europe each week and 2 not very hard workers.
So obviously we need one of the more hard working players around to replace Ander.
It doesnt have to be an extreme hard working player like he is, if Fred is also playing.
But Fred will need help.
So the top team in the league right now is the worst example. BrilliantYou have chosen the worst example. Liverpool is the only top team with a midfield like that.
And they can play like that because the system of Klopp hide their weakness and when you have players like Firminho ( Benzema 2.0) or defenders like Van Dijk or TAA, it's help a lot too.
We are closer to a Pulis side than a Klopp side ffs.
The reigning champions maybe?So the top team in the league right now is the worst example. Brilliant
Who should we model ourselves on then? The teams behind them?
A team that's won 4 out of the last 5 CLs would be nice..The reigning champions maybe like @Adnan said or the team that won 4 CLs in 5 years maybe...
Their front three has the quality to produce something out of nothing is how they hide it. We have very good midfielders and our attackers find ways to produce nothing out of something.You have chosen the worst example. Liverpool is the only top team with a midfield like that.
And they can play like that because the system of Klopp hide their weakness and when you have players like Firminho ( Benzema 2.0) or defenders like Van Dijk and TAA, it's help a lot too.
We are closer to a Pulis side than a Klopp side ffs.
Not true. How many of those are even DMs?No. His ground coverage is minimal compared to Kante. If anything, he’s going to get thicker, not quicker.
Not even close to Doucoure, Sissoko, Fernandinho, Henderson, Torreira, Guendouzi as a DM.
Reasons he’s not good enough as a DM and eventually be moved back to CB:
1. He’s not quick enough
2. His off ball movement is poor. He doesn’t open passing options for teammates.
3. His range of passing is limited compared to top DMs. Watch the players above. Watch Witsel on Dortmund, watch Veratti.
4. Touch is not great, and in that position, you need perfect touch (ask Fred).
I watched him specifically for long periods. He does have good anticipation and he is good at winning 50-50 balls and tackling.
I’m not saying he’s a failure, or won’t become a good CB, I’m saying he will never be a top DM. At knockout stages of CL, winning the PL, just don’t think he’s good enough.
He’s only 20, and he will improve, but he’s a CB with that skill set.
Yeah, noticed this yesterday too. Especially in the first half, he looked surprisingly unsure where to move when in possession.No. His ground coverage is minimal compared to Kante. If anything, he’s going to get thicker, not quicker.
Not even close to Doucoure, Sissoko, Fernandinho, Henderson, Torreira, Guendouzi as a DM.
Reasons he’s not good enough as a DM and eventually be moved back to CB:
1. He’s not quick enough
2. His off ball movement is poor. He doesn’t open passing options for teammates.
3. His range of passing is limited compared to top DMs. Watch the players above. Watch Witsel on Dortmund, watch Veratti.
4. Touch is not great, and in that position, you need perfect touch (ask Fred).
I watched him specifically for long periods. He does have good anticipation and he is good at winning 50-50 balls and tackling.
I’m not saying he’s a failure, or won’t become a good CB, I’m saying he will never be a top DM. At knockout stages of CL, winning the PL, just don’t think he’s good enough.
He’s only 20, and he will improve, but he’s a CB with that skill set.
I agree. We need to get a proper British core back in the spine of the team and Rice appears to be made of the right stuff. We need to ensure that Matic is a bench player at most next season.Very impressive performance. Madrid started winning the CL since they had midfield balance with Casemiro as DM. And maybe we should be back on having British core in midfield, too.
Maybe it's just us with romanticism of the good ol' days.I agree. We need to get a proper British core back in the spine of the team and Rice appears to be made of the right stuff. We need to ensure that Matic is a bench player at most next season.
Thank God he's no longer Irish then!!I agree. We need to get a proper British core back in the spine of the team and Rice appears to be made of the right stuff. We need to ensure that Matic is a bench player at most next season.
You generally don't get the British gems being linked away to other big clubs whereas there's always a feeling that continental Europeans etc always have one eye on the likes of Barca and Real. That's just my feeling.Maybe it's just us with romanticism of the good ol' days.
It doesn't mean that we shouldn't sign non-British players, as we shouldn't limit the talent pool. I'd still love to have the like of KdB, Eriksen, and Kante too.
Sorry, I should have said British and IrishThank God he's no longer Irish then!!
Good player, but I'd give him another year at West Ham, lots of players struggle after their break out season.
Well with the lack of quality among british midfielders you won't get anywhere. I thought Rice was good yesterday, and maybe he could be a starter someday if he join United. But we will need to have world class midefielders along him if we want to compete.Very impressive performance. Madrid started winning the CL since they had midfield balance with Casemiro as DM. And maybe we should be back on having British core in midfield, too.
Saul would be big money which would mean we couldn't get Koulibaly & Sancho too
Toby would be a better signing than Koulibaly and we’ve a better chance of signing Messi than Sancho leaving Dortmund in the summer.Saul would be big money which would mean we couldn't get Koulibaly & Sancho too
There’s enough on here to compete with Martial FCPeople are so easily gassed, he had a really good 20 minute spell in the second half which meant I knew the Rice pudding club would be bumping his thread with hyperbole. We were atrocious today in general, the main issue being the sloppy forward passing, we weren't missing a cruncher.
By which point if he doesn't struggle he'll be twice the price.Sorry, I should have said British and Irish
United have had some fabulous Irish players over the years and they are a big part of the fabric of the club.
I would say Madrid looked more impressive with a 3-man midfield of Alonso, Modric and di Maria than that of Casemiro, Modric and Kroos. A shame that Alonso wanted to leave as soon he won the CL at Madrid because he wanted to leave on high hence the reason why Madrid had to sign Kroos but unfortunately, Kroos isn't a no 6 like Alonso but a no 8/10 regardless of his similar slow stride to Alonso hence Madrid had to change their midfield set-up and bring in Casemiro to accommodate the two no 8 they have in Modric and Kroos however, I would say they weren't that impressive. They have just been lucky so far because I could remember how many times they were dominated by Barca's midfield and even in the CL, I recall Bayern dominating them in the midfield as well as missing countless of chances until Ronaldo eventually came to the rescue. Likewise against Barca in the league matches. The only time their midfield looked fantastic against Barca was when Kovacic was deployed in the no 6 role.Very impressive performance. Madrid started winning the CL since they had midfield balance with Casemiro as DM. And maybe we should be back on having British core in midfield, too.
I agree with this. I have watched him alot too. Made a thread about him a while back. I think he could work as a DM, but its not where he has the biggest potential. At least not for a top 6-club that wants to control the games with the ball. (But I do not agree that he is not quick.)No. His ground coverage is minimal compared to Kante. If anything, he’s going to get thicker, not quicker.
Not even close to Doucoure, Sissoko, Fernandinho, Henderson, Torreira, Guendouzi as a DM.
Reasons he’s not good enough as a DM and eventually be moved back to CB:
1. He’s not quick enough
2. His off ball movement is poor. He doesn’t open passing options for teammates.
3. His range of passing is limited compared to top DMs. Watch the players above. Watch Witsel on Dortmund, watch Veratti.
4. Touch is not great, and in that position, you need perfect touch (ask Fred).
I watched him specifically for long periods. He does have good anticipation and he is good at winning 50-50 balls and tackling.
I’m not saying he’s a failure, or won’t become a good CB, I’m saying he will never be a top DM. At knockout stages of CL, winning the PL, just don’t think he’s good enough.
He’s only 20, and he will improve, but he’s a CB with that skill set.
Kevin Bridges?Rice has decent stats for a 20 year old, but he's a bit of an ugly bugger.
He's committed only 19 fouls so far playing over 4,000 minutes. Surprising and one of Carrick's many strengths was tackling and making interceptions whilst committing very few fouls.I wouldn’t be unhappy signing him, at 20 there’s enough potential there for carrick to work with
Unless we’re prepared to shell out for a ‘sure thing’ like veratti, every player is going to be a gamble
Wouldn't stand no chance against Anti-Martial FC though.There’s enough on here to compete with Martial FC