Define the following modern football terms in less than 30 words...

[duffer]

Let's get some consensus on definitions for the following terms/roles. 30 words or less for each.

DM

Gegenpress

Tiki-taka

No. 8

No. 6

Low block

World class

Do not use a player or team as an example, that's cheating. Your definition should make me think of the player, not the other way around.

 

[M Bison]

Can I also add in:

Regista

 

[diarm]

I'll have a go at these 3:

No. 6
The link between defence and attack, playmaker and play-breaker, attack instigator and tempo setter. Position requires intelligence, workrate, technical ability and vision both with and without the ball.

Low block
A defensive setup, with a structured shape and a deep line, pressing only within your own third of the field & being extremely conservative with numbers sent forward to attack.

World class
Among the top handful of players in his position globally. Player must have delivered consistently over multiple seasons at club and international level.

 

[GhastlyHun]

Generational talent?

 

[Ødegaard]

Gegenpress:
Pressing immediately with & on multiple players to reclaim the ball fast after losing it.

DM:
Defensive midfielder, has the role of shielding the backline through good positioning.

Low block:
Defending deeper into your own half so you have more players in less space, making the opponent need good accuracy and movement to break through.

No. 8:
The midfielder who is expected to do a job both in defense and attack.

No 6:
The midfielder with the most defensive position in the midfield.

World class:
Rated by the one making the claim as one of the best in his position in the world. It is up to the individual to say how many that involves.

 

[The Boy]

DM
Player shielding his defence, winning possession and linking between defence and midfield

Gegenpress
German for counter pressing and means winning the ball back and tansitioning into attack as close to the opposition goal as possible.

Tiki-taka
Spanish for touch touch, slick quick short passing style, retaining possession embarrasses other teams when done well

No. 8
Box to box midfielder important in transitioning from defence to attack

No. 6
See DM definition, also used as deep lying play maker dictating pace of the game and direction of attack through his passing

Low block
Playing very deep, often ten behind the ball closing down any attacking space.

World class
Overused phrase for anyone fans think is exciting or any player that looks good for a couple of games.

 

[youmeletsfly]

DM - interesting position on the pitch, turned into "let's shove a 1.9 m tall guy there and let him "shield" the fecking defense"

Gegenpress - Sacchi

Tiki-taka - Beautiful idea, boring result

No. 8 - should be no 6

No. 6 - should be no 8

Low block - basically parking the buss

World class - a player who's back will age quite rapidly from all the carrying. (sadly, only 5-6 in the last 20 years)

 

[Carl]

DM = Water carrier

Gegenpress = Incessant pressing. Requires PEDs.

Tiki-taka = Tippy tappy.

No. 8 = box to box.

No. 6 = water carrier than can pass the ball a bit.

Low block = Park the bus.

World class = Gets into any team in the world.

 

[Toad]

DM - interesting position on the pitch, turned into "let's shove a 1.9 m tall guy there and let him "shield" the fecking defense"

Gegenpress - Sacchi

Tiki-taka - Beautiful idea, boring result

No. 8 - should be no 6

No. 6 - should be no 8

Low block - basically parking the buss

World class - a player who's back will age quite rapidly from all the carrying. (sadly, only 5-6 in the last 20 years)

Out of interest, who are your 5-6 world class players?

 

[do.ob]

DM:
Deep(est) midfielder tasked with shielding the defense.

Gegenpress:
Trying to exploit the weaknesses in a team's transition from defensive formation to possession structure via aggressive pressing.

Tiki-taka:
Heavy possession without significant attacking purpose.

No. 8:
Another term for central midfielder, tasked with both attacking and defensive duties.

No. 6:
Another term for DM.

Low block:
Teams with a deep pressing line.

World class:
Player who dominates games at the big stages with his individual quality.

 

[youmeletsfly]

Out of interest, who are your 5-6 world class players?

Ronaldinho, R9, CR7, Iniesta, Leo, Kaka, Keano, Pirlo

 

[strongwalker]

If "DM", #6 or #8 are "modern football" then I must be way older than I thought because we sure as hell had those when I first watched a match in about '78

Gegenpressing: force ball Loss of opposition by closing down on ball and pass options nearby in hope to regain possession to exploit in a fast counter attack

Worldclass: was: among the best 3-5 players in that position for a longer period of time nationally and innternationally; now: had a good game in a match the Caf crowd mostly watched (can't be a member of the own team)

Tiki Taka: maintain maximum ball possession by extensive short passing in - > triangles. Can be used to avoid 1-1 situations. Usually works by boring the opposition to death

 

[paulscholes18]

DM - someone who sits between the defence and the midfield job is to brake up play the best examples being Makelele, Deschamps & Fernandinho
Gegenpress - trying to win the ball quickly after losing possession then burst forward, best example being Liverpool
Tiki-taka- keeping passes short and simple, best examples Spain 08-12 & Barcelona 09-11
NO 8, someone who can drive forward with the ball from midfield the the opponents final 3rd, best examples being Davids, Matthaus & Keane
No6: Same as a DM or a Regista depending on how the manager wants them to play
Regista: somebody who is always behind the play in space looking to create from deep, best examples being Pirlo, Carrick & Alonso
Low Block- deep defensive line to stop the ball from being played over the top, best example being Atlético Madrid
World Class - someone who can get into any team in the world, best examples being Lewandowski, Ronaldo & Bruno

 

[The Original]

DM: A style of play rather than a position on the pitch, that describes a midfielder whose primary job is to recover possession or otherwise support in the defense.

Gegenpress:

Tiki-taka: A possession-based style of football that revolves around short quick passing to pull opposing team members out of position.

No. 8: A position on the pitch describing midfielder who takes up positions around the middle third of the pitch by default, as a base from which to drop deeper to either aid in the defense (a defensive 8) or help control the game (ball-playing centre midfielder), and venture forward to support the attack.

No. 6: A position on the pitch describing midfielder who takes up positions in the space around the space between the defensive third and the middle third. A no 6 may be primarily concerned with defensive duties, in which case they are known as defensive midfielders, or they may be more concerned with ball-playing duties, in which case they may be deep-lying playmakers.

Low block: ultra-defensive formation where the forward players concede space and time to the defensive players of the opposing team and only start to press once the ball is in their own half.

World class: a subjective term that describes a player thought to perform beyond the expectations of a player in their position.

 

[Toad]

Ronaldinho, R9, CR7, Iniesta, Leo, Kaka, Keano, Pirlo

I’d put Zidane, Henry, Buffon and Scholes above Keane (personal preference). Also not a huge fan of Kaka, I don’t rate him as highly as the rest (again personal preference)

 

[JPRouve]

8 and 6 aren't modern terms, those are the terms that are generally used in France since ever, the 6 is the traditional DM and the 8 is what british would call a box to box.

 

[duffer]

8 and 6 aren't modern terms, those are the terms that are generally used in France since ever, the 6 is the traditional DM and the 8 is what british would call a box to box.

6 in England was traditionally a centre defender. It's not really used to describe that here anymore.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Ronaldinho, R9, CR7, Iniesta, Leo, Kaka, Keano, Pirlo

Not having that, you can't tell me Henry, Zidane, or Suarez (2 of many) weren't WC at their peak.

For me world class is defined as a player who is the best in the world in their position for a prolonged period of time (2-3 years at least). Henry and Suarez both fit that bill. De Gea is another Utd one. I'd say your examples are more "all time greats", even though Henry and Zidane both fit that bill too!

 

[JPRouve]

6 in England was traditionally a centre defender. It's not really used to describe that here anymore.

It depends on whether you are talking about the WM formation or 442. The terms that you are talking about are in the context of 442 not WM, interestingly some of the "new" terms that irritates some people come from WM such as inside forwards.

 

[SilentStrike]

Ronaldinho, R9, CR7, Iniesta, Leo, Kaka, Keano, Pirlo

Neuer, Zidane, Lahm, Xavi, Buffon, Ribery, Robben, Neymar, Ramos, Henry, Ibra and currently Lewandowski not world class for you?

I'd certainly put a couple of those above Keane, Iniesta, Kaka and Pirlo.

 

[Hoof the ball]

I find it curious that people label tiki taka as boring, ignoring the fact that it's the defensive teams response to tiki taka that makes the game boring, not the footballing approach itself. Any time the defensive team gets pushed back into a super-low block, it's a shit show, doesn't matter what offensive style goes against it.

 

[duffer]

It depends on whether you are talking about the WM formation or 442. The terms that you are talking about are in the context of 442 not WM, interestingly some of the "new" terms that irritates some people come from WM such as inside forwards.

That's one of the points of the thread, if you call someone a "6" nowadays, it's everyone thinks you are describing a midfielder but for an old fart like me, I still think of Tony Adams, Bobby Moore, Franco Baresi or Aldair.

 

[SilentStrike]

DM - Deepest midfielder to shield the defense, hopefully with plenty of deep playmaking ability too, and press resistant.

Gegenpress - disciplined tactical pressing by forwards and midfield to win the ball back closer to their goal.

Tiki-taka - boring possession football, not at all attractive like it was lauded to be.

No. 8 - 433. Press resistant good passer

No. 6 - 433. Good positioning. Deep playmaker

Low block - ultradefensive deep sitting tactics.

World class - among the best players in their position currently.

 

[JPRouve]

That's one of the points of the thread, if you call someone a "6" nowadays, it's everyone thinks you are describing a midfielder but for an old fart like me, I still think of Tony Adams, Bobby Moore, Franco Baresi or Aldair.

But that's on you, these guys have never been 6 in France but (5;4) because again we are talking about 424(I wrote 442 but that's wrong) which is a concept from the 50s-60s and Brazil. The key isn't that you are an old fart because first you are young and haven't lived through the WM era and it's more that in british vocabulary there is a confusing mix between the two main tactical concepts. These terms are only modern if you are british and even then they shouldn't be modern if you have any interest for football outside of the UK.

My point being that these are terms that are 60 years old.

 

[SilentStrike]

I find it curious that people label tiki taka as boring, ignoring the fact that it's the defensive teams response to tiki taka that makes the game boring, not the footballing approach itself. Any time the defensive team gets pushed back into a super-low block, it's a shit show, doesn't matter what offensive style goes against it.

The problem is that the slow build up allowed teams to get back and reorganise. Furthermore the posession was seen as a defense, so just passing the ball around was part of the tactics.

Spain 2010 is by far the most boring World Cup winner of all time. I think they're the least scoring one as well.

 

[Zen]

Gegenpress - Regaining possession is more key than actual possession.

Tiki-taka - Possession is key. Endless blocks of triangles in short spaces.

 

[duffer]

But that's on you, these guys have never been 6 in France but (5;4) because again we are talking about 424(I wrote 442 but that's wrong) which is a concept from the 50s-60s and Brazil. The key isn't that you are an old fart because first you are young and haven't lived through the WM era and it's more that in british vocabulary there is a confusing mix between the two main tactical concepts. These terms are only modern if you are british and even then they shouldn't be modern if you have any interest for football outside of the UK.

This thread is to see if we are using the terms in a uniform way, and it's pretty clearly showing we don't. Makes certain conversations difficult when nobody agrees what a "DM" even is.

And I have no idea what you mean when you say "WM era". I don't really follow football outside the UK much at all.

 

[Zen]

DM is incredibly vague, as is Number 6+8

A "DM" could be Pirlo or Cattermole....

 

[JPRouve]

The problem is that the slow build up allowed teams to get back and reorganise. Furthermore the posession was seen as a defense, so just passing the ball around was part of the tactics.

Spain 2010 is by far the most boring World Cup winner of all time. I think they're the least scoring one as well.

That's a misconception, Tiki Taka isn't about slow build up. Both Spain and Barcelona would first look for quick transitions which led to a fair share of their goals but when the opposition would transition well in their defensive shape, Barcelona/Spain would switch to positional play built around what Zen aptly described as endless blocks of triangles.

The reason things became boring is because teams understood that Barcelona and Spain were too good in terms of passing under pressure and that it was suicidal to press them high, they would simply do what they are looking for which is a quick transition without problem mainly because Busquets, Xabi Alonso, Iniesta and Xavi were elite long range passers and both teams had the likes of Henry, Pedro, David Villa and Messi who were all fast enough to beat any defenders in a foot race. So teams just decided to anticipate, the moment they lost the ball, they would retreat in a compact block, which would limit Barcelona's options to the methodical approach of breaking defenses through positional play.

 

[JPRouve]

This thread is to see if we are using the terms in a uniform way, and it's pretty clearly showing we don't. Makes certain conversations difficult when nobody agrees what a "DM" even is.

And I have no idea what you mean when you say "WM era". I don't really follow football outside the UK much at all.

Before the 50s the dominant formation was what is known as WM:

LW-----------CF---------------RW
--------ILF------------IRF
----------HB-----------HB
---FB----------FB-------------FB
-----------------GK

In that formation one of the halfbacks(HB) is a 5 or 6, that player dropped into the back four when the 424 became a popular thing. Now at the time players didn't have fixed numbers they would be attributed one based on the teamsheet order. And that's where there is a mix up, there is no way for a 6 to be in the back four, these players should only be from 2 to 5 and there is also sometimes a mix between halfbacks and centerbacks.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

DM - good old fashioned no nonsense footballer.

Gegenpress - running instead of proper defending. Nonsense.

Tiki-taka - nonsense

No. 8 - big tall midfielder. Shouldn't get involved in nonsense.

No. 6 - big tall centre back. No nonsense footballer.

Low block - big tall centre back blocks a shot with his feet. Hoofs it clear after.

World class - Ben Mee

 

[Invictus]

Some of those are wide-sweeping umbrella terms and consequently hard to define in a clear way in 30 words, let alone form a robust consensus. e.g. at face value, a DM is just — a midfielder with defensive functions/instructions...nominally positioned ahead of the actual central defense. But there is a massive variance in how that role is interpreted and how the player operates within the framework of the team, both on and off the ball — and painting with a broad brush will give you a shoddy view of the role. Similar for something like low block — superficially, it's just a concept rooted in compactness (i.e. limitation of space). Defend deep, close to your goal and each other, and commit numbers — don't afford the opposition any room when they approach your goal = profit. But there are numerous methods for its application — depending on managers, whether it's a narrow block, and so forth. Others mean a whole bunch of different things depending on who you are asking and what historical school of football you're exposed to. e.g. For some, #6 could be a left-sided fullback or wingback (lateral-esquerdo). For others, it could be a wheel or a halfback or a holding or defensive midfielder. And, for others still, it could be a central defender. That being said, you could argue that in a contemporary and limited sense, #6 is reserved for a holding or defensive midfielder on Redcafe.

Gegenpress

Counterpressing of the opposition after you concede possession to inhibit them from optimizing their structures (defensively or in terms of possession/counter-attacking transitions). Ideally, do it immediately with immediate results.

Tiki-taka

“I loathe all that passing for the sake of it, all that tiki-taka. Is stupid stuff and leads to nothing. You have to keep the ball for the purpose of getting near the opposing goal and doing damage” — Pep Guardiola.

 

[Cheimoon]

That's a misconception, Tiki Taka isn't about slow build up. Both Spain and Barcelona would first look for quick transitions which led to a fair share of their goals but when the opposition would transition well in their defensive shape, Barcelona/Spain would switch to positional play built around what Zen aptly described as endless blocks of triangles.

The reason things became boring is because teams understood that Barcelona and Spain were too good in terms of passing under pressure and that it was suicidal to press them high, they would simply do what they are looking for which is a quick transition without problem mainly because Busquets, Xabi Alonso, Iniesta and Xavi were elite long range passers and both teams had the likes of Henry, Pedro, David Villa and Messi who were all fast enough to beat any defenders in a foot race. So teams just decided to anticipate, the moment they lost the ball, they would retreat in a compact block, which would limit Barcelona's options to the methodical approach of breaking defenses through positional play.

I think tiki-taka really is the boring variant. It's a disparaging term that no-one appreciated that tried to play a related type of football. For example, it's most commonly associated with Pep, and hence your paragraph on Barcelona, but @Invictus dug out the perfect Pep quote on the subject:

“I loathe all that passing for the sake of it, all that tiki-taka. Is stupid stuff and leads to nothing. You have to keep the ball for the purpose of getting near the opposing goal and doing damage” — Pep Guardiola.

I suppose you could argue people misunderstand tiki-taka and that's why they think it's boring; but I really think the term tiki-taka points to the boring variant and is mostly used negatively. (That does mean that we need a different word for Pep's type of football, but I don't know what that is.)

 

[VeevaVee]

Football

 

[Invictus]

I suppose you could argue people misunderstand tiki-taka and that's why they think it's boring; but I really think the term tiki-taka points to the boring variant and is mostly used negatively. (That does mean that we need a different word for Pep's type of football, but I don't know what that is.)

Aye, tiki taka is just one aspect and not even closely related to extreme-possession in the original sense of the word, so it's kind of a misdirected and misappropriated term for disparaging the supposed style!

Peak Barcelona was more a combination of rondo training being implemented on the pitch (this is more intimately tied with possession and can be traced back to Cruyff) + juegos de posesión for coherent structures and conversion of possession into gainful possession (especially in terms of the advancement of the ball in attack) + deft tiki taka + counter-pressing + compactness + incessant scheming by puppet-master Xavi + individual genius to kick things up a notch (especially the two magicians Messi-Iniesta as well as Alves) + impeccable team-ethos + automatism.

 

[JPRouve]

Aye, tiki taka is just one aspect and not even closely related to extreme-possession in the original sense of the word, so it's kind of a misdirected and misappropriated term for disparaging the supposed style!

Peak Barcelona was more a combination of rondo training being implemented on the pitch (this is more intimately tied with possession and can be traced back to Cruyff) + juegos de posesión for coherent structures and conversion of possession into gainful possession (especially in terms of the advancement of the ball in attack) + deft tiki taka + counter-pressing + compactness + incessant scheming by puppet-master Xavi + individual genius to kick things up a notch (especially the two magicians Messi-Iniesta as well as Alves) + impeccable team-ethos + automatism.

It is derogatory but it's not a style but a phase. Your description is actually very apt and the issue was that at some point teams understood that it was better for them to put Spain and Barcelona in that Tiki Taka phase as soon as possible by parking the bus.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

DM- Deepest midfielder playing in front of the defense

Gegenpress-High intense pressing from the front using the attackers and midfielders

Tiki-taka- short passing football with lots of combinations between players.

No. 8-box to box midfielder

No. 6- deep cover midfielder to aid the number 8 with more defensive duties

Low block- playing with a very compact team not giving away much space between the lines.

World class-top 5 player in each position pretty much.

 

[Gio]

Will try 3 words or less:

Gegenpress - counter pressing

Tiki-taka - keep-ball

No. 8 - central midfielder

No. 6 - deepest midfielder

Low block - defend deep

Except these two:

DM - player who sits in front of the defence to protect or create, or whose main role is off-the-ball to win it back

World class - decides games at the highest level (will also accept 'gets in the 23-man squad to face Mars')

 

[Chesterlestreet]

6 in England was traditionally a centre defender. It's not really used to describe that here anymore.

True - and often overlooked. In fact, it was used for centre halves/CBs pretty much up till the point where squad numbers were introduced (and beyond in some cases).

CBs: 5* and 6.

* or 4, but #4 would often enough be worn by a central (and frequently more defensive) midfielder.

ETA In England, that is - not on the continent. And, of course, this wasn't carried out 100% in England either.

And...by "traditional" one should probably add that the tradition isn't THAT old: roughly back to when it became standard to play with a back four, I'd say **. Before that #6 would often be a half (wing-half). In other words, a midfielder by modern standards. Duncan Edwards usually wore that number, for instance.

** In other words, when fullbacks went from defending more centrally to becoming side backs (still wearing their old numbers, 2 and 3 - right and left, respectively).

 

[Chesterlestreet]

DM - player who sits in front of the defence to protect or create, or whose main role is off-the-ball to win it back

Yeah, there really isn't a clear definition there. Could be a creative player - or a player who isn't creative at all. That was true years ago - and still is.

In certain systems (used today), the DM is also a player who is expected not only to shield the defence but to drop down and become part of the defence when other defenders move up the pitch (as part(s) of the attack).