Delegate's report reveals decisions vs Sheff Utd were wrong

Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
22,653
Location
Behind the right goal post as "Whiteside shoots!"
It did. Took about 5 seconds for them decide that the butterfingered cnut was fouled
Don't think it did.

Thought they said the rules meant that VAR couldn't review it because the ref had blown before the ball went in?

Which sort of makes it worse as in that one game we had a shit ref, shit VAR reviews and shit VAR rules prohibiting some VAR reviews.

Now we've got VAR, why have a rule that says you can use it for some disputed goals but not others based on the split second a ref blows his whistle?

They're making it overly complicated. It's not rocket science... review disputed goals, pens, dangerous play and forget this clear error shit or when/if a ref has whistled. If the VAR official thinks it's worth a second look, have one.. it takes one bloody minute.
 

big rons sovereign

New Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Messages
6,160
And there it is. "It's oles fault"
What's ole supposed to do about a creating being in charge of the game?
Oh wait, let me guess.
'patterns of play'
'coaching'
'resign and get poch in'
Agenda revealed.
 

sullydnl

Ross Kemp's caf ID
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
34,063
Don't think it did.

Thought they said the rules meant that VAR couldn't review it because the ref had blown before the ball went in?

Which sort of makes it worse as in that one game we had a shit ref, shit VAR reviews and shit VAR rules prohibiting some VAR reviews.

Now we've got VAR, why have a rule that says you can use it for some disputed goals but not others based on the split second a ref blows his whistle?

They're making it overly complicated. It's not rocket science... review disputed goals, pens, dangerous play and forget this clear error shit or when/if a ref has whistled. If the VAR official thinks it's worth a second look, have one.. it takes one bloody minute.
Correct.


Which is worse again. How refs are still making that stupid mistake this long into having VAR.....
 

Vidyoyo

The bad "V"
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
21,627
Location
Not into locations = will not dwell
The first one in my view should definitely have been referred back to the on pitch referee for a decision. It’s the type of thing easily missed on-field and I suspect it would have been overturned if the ref had the benefit of rewatching it.

The second one is a bit different. It’s the type of incident which is often given as foul (even though I personally don’t think it is). In the normal course of events, I’d probably be ok with it not being referred back to the referee. However, in this scenario, it leaves us with a situation where we have two inconsistent decisions within minutes of each other- there is no way that the Sheff Utd goal should stand if Maguire’s is sufficient to be deemed a foul. I’d accept the rules don’t really allow for it but I’d really want the ref to be shown both incidents and asked to decide on the Maguire one in the context of his earlier decision.

There are always going to be grey areas in football. However, what most people really want to see is consistency.
There shouldn’t be a situation where, with the benefit of VAR, we should have two such similar incidents in the same match lead to the opposite outcome.
Yeah totally agree. VAR opens up a can of worms in terms of decision-making but more so when it's only being used in some instances.

I think the idea right now is to keep the referee in charge but it seems like it's too solitary and leads to this level of inconsistency. Football generally has an issue with accepting a collective approach. I think back to the controversy over the extra men by the goal who were rarely used despite being better position to judge some offences. Ideally, with VAR, the game should be reffed more collectively and then accept the discretion of the ref only when he/she is absolutely sure of the offence. Say, when they absolutely see the offence, or choose to card players for fouls they're close to.

Anyway, definitely some kinks to iron out. I hope VAR continues to evolve and be better.
 

Silverman

Full Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2013
Messages
6,499
Seeing their fans reaction to this on their forum, I want them to get relegated.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
12,830
Yeah totally agree. VAR opens up a can of worms in terms of decision-making but more so when it's only being used in some instances.

I think the idea right now is to keep the referee in charge but it seems like it's too solitary and leads to this level of inconsistency. Football generally has an issue with accepting a collective approach. I think back to the controversy over the extra men by the goal who were rarely used despite being better position to judge some offences. Ideally, with VAR, the game should be reffed more collectively and then accept the discretion of the ref only when he/she is absolutely sure of the offence. Say, when they absolutely see the offence, or choose to card players for fouls they're close to.

Anyway, definitely some kinks to iron out. I hope VAR continues to evolve and be better.
To be honest those decisions had nothing to do with VAR, it was down to imo negligence in the officials.

Sometimes, the saying is used "another ref would have given that", we accept that in football because some decisions are viewed differently by different individuals.

However; this was the same referee for both goals, same VAR official who has a duty to look at everything. So when they have given the first one, surely a conversation saying, its no different to the SU goal, so you have to give that?

Do they talk to each other? or is it because the ref decided its done? some people will say the ref blew the whistle so the game stops?

However; in the City game Cancelo was flagged offside and that was overruled. So clearly the game doesn't stop.
 

Sean_RedDevil

Twitter bot
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Messages
21,364
Location
NYC (Before Manchester+Hamburg)
We wouldn't have lost if not for the brainless decisions.
We deserved to win it on every possible measure unless you are ABU of course. Or think that effort should go before merit in sports. Which I think is cool for children but a bit daft for adults.

If we wanted to ‘deserve to win’ that way, we could have just stuck to Dan James, Andreas Perira and Jess Lingard behind Cavani, and we’d have that ‘prize’ no problem.
The pious self flagellation from some on this thread is mind boggling to me. We didn’t deserve to lose just because our performance was poor. There’s actually nothing wrong with playing badly now and again over the course of a season, particularly when you’re going for the title. We’ve done that enough over the years when we use in the hunt.

What we actually deserved was the foul leading to the Sheffield goal to be awarded and our disallowed goal to stand. Also, for those saying we would have still lost, you’ve no idea...neither have I to be fair but i do think it would have been a lot harder for Sheffield United to create another shithouse goal for a result, just based on how little they were in the game.
The goal for Sheffield was fine in my opinion and Sheffield weren't great but it shouldn’t have come down to VAR decisions to beat this Sheffield team this season.
 

BR7

Full Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Messages
702
Location
Taxi for Solskjaer
And there it is. "It's oles fault"
What's ole supposed to do about a creating being in charge of the game?
Oh wait, let me guess.
'patterns of play'
'coaching'
'resign and get poch in'
Agenda revealed.
Yep you sure showed your agenda with that post. While we have fans like you we will go back to big rons days. Never win the league and live off the fa cup. Keep your championship mentality to yourself
 

Sandikan

aka sex on the beach
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
53,762
One for those ABU twats who think everything goes in our favour.
 

Sandikan

aka sex on the beach
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
53,762
You got yo take those ole rose tinted glasses off.
If Sheff Utd don't get that goal, they don't gain heart and have something to put their big defensive shift in over.

Still wasn't anything but a poor display, but big moments change games.
 

Crustanoid

New Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2008
Messages
18,511
Bunch of shithouses

terrified of the tv Abu brigade getting on the case
This all stems from the bitter twat Klopp’s public crywanking fest about us getting pens. Between that and the plastic oil cnuts breaking rules to get themselves a rest over Christmas, we have had our season derailed.
 

Schmeichel's Cartwheel

Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
11,420
Location
Manchester
Is it just me, or have the table of decisilns turned roughly after Mourinho and Klopps dirty tricks of complaining about United penalties? They can’t be that easily influenced, surely?
It’s hard to say, we aren’t getting into the box as much so it’s understandable we’re not getting as many pens
 

noodlehair

"It's like..."
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
16,508
Location
Flagg
It’s more to do with how the rules are applied, for me. There’s so many arbitrary rules that they’ve imposed on themselves for literally no apparent reason.

Like the rule about our goal being disallowed because Martial put the ball in a mere nanosecond after the ref had blown his whistle. I assume this rule is to protect the defenders in that situation who might stop defending. But this was basically simultaneous, so it made no sense. Yet they stuck to it anyway, presumably to maintain consistency, yet in the process managed to disallow a perfectly good goal.

Or how they can’t use VAR for yellow cards. Or to overrule refs. Or to do anything useful. These are all self imposed rules - just get rid of them!

They’ve made a right balls up of something which should be fairly black and white. Is it a goal or not? That’s all that should matter, but in implementing it with these weird rules they’ve actually opened a Pandora’s box of grey areas, inconsistency and confusion.
The problem I have is they've made such a balls up of it, that it almost seems to be on purpose, or if not there's some ridiculous level of pointless stubborness going on.

The fact it took them a year to accept that they should look at the screen for anything...that's why it's there, so you can go look at it. You're not so good at refereeing that you don't have to, because if that was the case it wouldn't be there.

I think the best insight into how our referees work was when Clattenburg had retired and started mouthing off about how he'd referee games to make them a theatre and citing examples of where he'd deliberately made the wrong decision (i.e. deliberately not sending Spurs players off against Chelsea). Just showed you the level of idiots you are dealing with. THey think they are in charge of how the game plays out as much as the players are.

The reason VAR doesn't really work is because the problem isn't really VAR, it's the people using it. There's no reason for major decisions to ever be wrong, or for subjective calls to ever be inconsistent within the same game. There's no reason as you said why rules need to be put in place to hamper it's use or make things more stupid. You could easily run the game on while VAR reviews an incident over a yellow card for example.

And this "clear and obvious" stupidity. Again just setting a vague area of interpretation where there is absolutely no need for one that creates the potential to just make things up or change them during a season or game. The decision is either right or wrong. Who decides where the "obvious" barrier is? Who is there to make sure it doesn't change depending on which team one person might have more interest in letting win?

They've actually found a way to use a video ref to make officiating worse and less transparent IMO, which is at best incompetent.
 

norm87cro

New Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
1,782
Location
Split, HR
The first goal was very soft and is Ddgs fault. The keeper should be dominant in his 5 yards. Imagine big Pete or Khan being "pushed" by anybody. Martials goal could have stood though. We still bottled that game despite everything.
 

VeevaVee

The worst "V"
Scout
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
46,266
Location
Manchester
In other words the delegate saying the decisions were wrong means less than it sounds like it means
Not sure that’s quite correct though. You don’t have to have been a ref to have a firm understanding of the rules. They’re there to ensure the PGMOL’s refs are doing their job right. I suspect they’ll be as aware of the rules as any ref. Not to mention the report will surely have been written after checking.
 

Dr. Dwayne

Self proclaimed tagline king.
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
97,921
Location
Nearer my Cas, to thee
The first goal was very soft and is Ddgs fault. The keeper should be dominant in his 5 yards. Imagine big Pete or Khan being "pushed" by anybody. Martials goal could have stood though. We still bottled that game despite everything.
How can you blame De Gea for being shoved in the back as he's about to jump?
 

markhughes

Full Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2016
Messages
867
Location
Sheffield, England
Let’s not deflect from the fact that we were absolutely awful and Sheffield United dug in and earned their win, sure they needed a bit of luck but we weren’t at the races and we ultimately paid for our complacency on the night.

They certainly deserved something out of the game at the very least.
 

padzilla

Hipster
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
3,456
Might have gotten the goal had players actually complained instead of just moving on. Found that odd when it happened.
De Gea literally shrugged his shoulders in response. That kind of body language allowed the ref to think he had made the right decision otherwise there would have been howls of protest. Again it comes down to us having few, if any, actual strong personalities on the pitch to act as leaders.
 

norm87cro

New Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
1,782
Location
Split, HR
How can you blame De Gea for being shoved in the back as he's about to jump?
Because there are keepers out there with more presence in the box and after 10 years in England he should be tougher. I guess I can blame our snowflake defence to a certain degree as well. The only way a team like Sheffield United can score a goal against us i by muscle and we should have known that.
 

Isotope

Ten Years a Cafite
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
23,778
I want this to never be forgotten. Ole needs to mention this on every press conference, until the press picking this up.

Even Southampton cried about that 7th goal penalty.
 

stevoc

Full Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Messages
21,253
The “United get all the penalties and decisions” narrative is behind this. Since all that bullshit became commonplace, refs and the idiots on VAR don’t dare blow anything our way because heaven forbid some media outlet makes a big thing out of it.

It’s shambolic and shows just how much the media can influence match results.
You were bang on with that prediction.
 

pintero

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Messages
204

This is from 2010...guess who was the ref?

Mike Dean though it was mainly the linesman who fecked it up

Yeah, you can take that on the chin cause it's a spur of the moment decision by linesman/lineswoman who's got very little margin of error.

This other post-mortem stuff like video replay, etc is mainly feeding all the hangers who need airtime. Doesn't seem that obvious to me that occasional clear cut corrections are benefiting the game overall.
 

Djemba-Djemba

Full Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
21,567
Location
Manchester
Remarkable how a game where we were utterly fecked over by the officials, goal wrongly given to them and goal wrongly taken away from us, in a tight game where they've come out and admitted they fecked up got about a tenth of the coverage of a dodgy penalty to make it 7-0 against Southampton.

Whenever anything goes against Utd you might as well use that Men in Black memory eraser stick on every other non Utd football fan in the world because they immediately forget it happened. People will be bringing up the penalty to make it 7-0 against Southampton though for months and years because it went for Utd.
 

stevoc

Full Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Messages
21,253
That'll be it for another few weeks now, until we next get screwed over by the ref to reset the balance again.
Yeah i don't think the likes of BT are trying to influence officials (which they might well do). They just know making a big deal out of decisions that go United's way is clickbait and views gold.