Deloitte Football Money League: Barcelona richest ahead of Real Madrid and Manchester United

momo83

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1) Liverpool might surpass United next year. Goooood will make the Glazers stand up and realise that on the field success actually matters.

2) Barca make so much money yet are always moaning about not having any... where does all their money go?
 

elánius

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1) Liverpool might surpass United next year. Goooood will make the Glazers stand up and realise that on the field success actually matters.

2) Barca make so much money yet are always moaning about not having any... where does all their money go?
Well they have one of the highest wage bills, they are definitely top 2 with Real Madrid and they are spending a lot of money. Their net spent for last 10 years is around 550 mil. pounds, btw ours is around 850 mil. pounds (and some people say that Glazers does not want to spent money, well they are wrong).

But I totally agree with your first point and it is something I hoped for for some time now. Our results are horrible, even though we spent so much money on players and managers, there is something broken around our club after SAF left. It might be Ed, it might be atmosphere, it might be pressure, it might be bad transfer policy and so on. But because our club is still so rich and fans are patient (well, I mean in general), Glazers have no need to change anything. But they understand money and if we are going to lose some of them, I supose their reaction will be very fast.
 
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Infordin

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Barca make so much money yet are always moaning about not having any... where does all their money go?
The dumbest thing any club can do is brag about how rich you are. That will only encourage other clubs to take you to the cleaners in the transfer market.
 

Infordin

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IMO, the idea that Woodward is some kind of financial genius is a myth. Of all the clubs in the top 10, Manchester United have seen the lowest growth in revenue in the past few years.

Manchester United is the most famous club in the most popular league in the world. It really shouldn’t be that hard to get sponsors. I’ve always felt that Woodward rode the coattails of Sir Alex Ferguson’s success rather than being a genius himself.
 

Ish

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IMO, the idea that Woodward is some kind of financial genius is a myth. Of all the clubs in the top 10, Manchester United have seen the lowest growth in revenue in the past few years.

Manchester United is the most famous club in the most popular league in the world. It really shouldn’t be that hard to get sponsors. I’ve always felt that Woodward rode the coattails of Sir Alex Ferguson’s success rather than being a genius himself.
I’m yet to meet anyone on the Caf who thinks Woody is a genius, tbf. And I agree with you. He’s been praised for his commercial deals (hell, I think I’ve even praised him before) but yeah, having the biggest brand (or one of) behind you certainly helps selling ice to all them eskimos.
 

Tarrou

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IMO, the idea that Woodward is some kind of financial genius is a myth. Of all the clubs in the top 10, Manchester United have seen the lowest growth in revenue in the past few years.

Manchester United is the most famous club in the most popular league in the world. It really shouldn’t be that hard to get sponsors. I’ve always felt that Woodward rode the coattails of Sir Alex Ferguson’s success rather than being a genius himself.
yeah I honestly think it's PR bollocks that Ed has released that's made everyone believe he's been great for the finances

In the 2007 money league, the year Ed took over as commercial director or whatever it was, we were fourth behind Real, Barca and Juve. We were a tiny bit behind Juve and Barca and the Italian league has since died on its arse.

It's hardly pulling up trees to still be in third after the enormous growth the PL has had. And other PL clubs are catching up.
 

VorZakone

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How are Bayern generating that kind of revenue without the same TV rights deal as PL clubs?
 

Invictus

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How are Bayern generating that kind of revenue without the same TV rights deal as PL clubs?
Bayern are benefiting from the improved Bundesliga broadcast deal (https://www.ft.com/content/47e96616-2ae2-11e9-a5ab-ff8ef2b976c7) and well as Champions League performance money, but more importantly, they were among the pioneers of massive commercial revenue generation/growth (including stadium branding rights with Allianz), and even though things have plateaued in recent years as others are catching up or surpassing them by a bit, they were able to build a robust network of dedicated sponsors with that bit of foresight (IIRC it's currently about 55% of their total revenues)...consistently ranking around the #1 spot for that particular stream over the years.

e.g. From 2015/16...
Indeed PSG was the only club with higher commercial revenue than Bayern with €297 million, though Bayern were ahead of clubs like Manchester United €264 million, Real Madrid €247 million and Barcelona €244 million.

And that was before Bayern’s 2015/16 growth in commercial revenue from €278 million to €343 million, comprising sponsoring and marketing €170 million, merchandising €108 million, Allianz Arena €39 million and other commercial activities €26 million. Bayern do have the advantage of being the most supported team in the largest commercial market in Europe, but that’s still some going.

Although commercial deals are very important to all German clubs, Bayern still earn significantly more than the others. In fact, the commercial gap to Dortmund, which had narrowed in 2014/15, rose to €191 million last season, the highest ever difference between the two.
Link.

Going even further back in time and comparing them with say United in the late 2000s (when we had higher total revenues but hadn't explored the full potential of the commercial revenue stream)...



https://www.statista.com/statistics/250856/revenue-of-bayern-munich-by-stream/
https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/uk/Documents/sports-business-group/deloitte-uk-deloitte-football-money-league-2009.pdf
 

Son

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We are the still the most marketable brand in world football playing in the biggest league.

It’s embarassing we are so far behind Barcelona but they will take money from anyone. Messi is obviously a giant help for income too.
 

Suedesi

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IMO, the idea that Woodward is some kind of financial genius is a myth. Of all the clubs in the top 10, Manchester United have seen the lowest growth in revenue in the past few years.

Manchester United is the most famous club in the most popular league in the world. It really shouldn’t be that hard to get sponsors. I’ve always felt that Woodward rode the coattails of Sir Alex Ferguson’s success rather than being a genius himself.
Agree, 100%. He's a glorified tax accountant from PWC. Shameful how much we've fallen in footballing terms under his reign.
 

Classical Mechanic

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Agree, 100%. He's a glorified tax accountant from PWC. Shameful how much we've fallen in footballing terms under his reign.
That's a pretty dim view of him. He's a physics graduate who retrained as an accountant and made a very rapid career progression as an investment banker working on prestige mergers and acquisitions like Man Utd for J&P Morgan.
 

yumtum

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The further we fall in these kinds of lists the better for fans long term, when the Glazers are finished milking United dry then they'll be forced to sell up - and at a massively reduced price as no one will pay 3 billion for a failing "brand" meaning we could have a better type of billionaire want to buy us rather than you know who.
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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This is probably the first time I have actually been scared for the club. I always thought we would be able to buy ourselves out of mediocrity at one point in the future. But this points to us losing out to Liverpool, Tottenham and Chelsea in the long run. City were always ahead due to Abu Dhabi.
 

meamth

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What scares me the most is from that top 10 list of richest club, each one of them have one of the best players playing today, maybe not Bayern (due to their aging squad).

When you look at our squad, we only have 2, and 1 is missing.

Gone are the days when United had world's best players in the squad...
 

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Infra-red

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IMO, the idea that Woodward is some kind of financial genius is a myth. Of all the clubs in the top 10, Manchester United have seen the lowest growth in revenue in the past few years.

Manchester United is the most famous club in the most popular league in the world. It really shouldn’t be that hard to get sponsors. I’ve always felt that Woodward rode the coattails of Sir Alex Ferguson’s success rather than being a genius himself.
This is correct. A period of unprecedented success naturally led to a period of unprecedented financial growth.

Since 2016, we haven't seen any growth in commercial revenues (and matchday has obviously been flat a lot longer). The only way we've been able to pay for our ballooning wage bill is thanks to the Premier League's ability to keep pushing the envelope with the TV deals.
 

cyberman

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This is correct. A period of unprecedented success naturally led to a period of unprecedented financial growth.

Since 2016, we haven't seen any growth in commercial revenues (and matchday has obviously been flat a lot longer). The only way we've been able to pay for our ballooning wage bill is thanks to the Premier League's ability to keep pushing the envelope with the TV deals.
Have you seen our on field results over the last decade compared to the rest? You can say the only reason they are near us is bcause of the CL revenue and their own tv deal that they unfairly gobble up from the rest of la liga.
As soon as any finacial report comes out that paints us in a bad light our fans are quick to jump on and say how we are doomed. Ive said it before in those threads and got pillored for it.. We are too big to fall away. Our fanbsse is so huge that it will take generation apon generation of nothingness to see our financial deals fall away.
 

cyberman

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It would be interesting to see the club's reaction if the media make a big deal of us losing our top billing in Britain.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/11907883/manchester-united-third-in-2020-deloitte-football-money-league-behind-barcelona-and-real-madrid
"If you think about where we were 10 years ago, the idea that City would overhaul United in financial terms would have seemed far-fetched."
I mean... City cooking their books is kind of a big story? Unless you think a club with 2 titles in 5 years, nowhere in Europe with a tiny fanbase is able to generate such buzz that they become a runaway financial train?
 

JPRouve

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Have you seen our on field results over the last decade compared to the rest? You can say the only reason they are near us is bcause of the CL revenue and their own tv deal that they unfairly gobble up from the rest of la liga.
As soon as any finacial report comes out that paints us in a bad light our fans are quick to jump on and say how we are doomed. Ive said it before in those threads and got pillored for it.. We are too big to fall away. Our fanbsse is so huge that it will take generation apon generation of nothingness to see our financial deals fall away.
They don't have their own TV deal.
 

Infra-red

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Have you seen our on field results over the last decade compared to the rest? You can say the only reason they are near us is bcause of the CL revenue and their own tv deal that they unfairly gobble up from the rest of la liga.
As soon as any finacial report comes out that paints us in a bad light our fans are quick to jump on and say how we are doomed. Ive said it before in those threads and got pillored for it.. We are too big to fall away. Our fanbsse is so huge that it will take generation apon generation of nothingness to see our financial deals fall away.
I haven't said that we're doomed or that we'll fall away. It's stagnation, rather than collapse, that is the concern here.

The club's edge, financially, has been somewhat erroded. Our success (or failure) in the coming years is largely going to depend on how intelligently we operate in the market/with managerial appointments, rather than our ability (relative to our rivals) to spend our way out of trouble.
 

Nanook

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1) Liverpool might surpass United next year. Goooood will make the Glazers stand up and realise that on the field success actually matters.

2) Barca make so much money yet are always moaning about not having any... where does all their money go?
Barca’s wage bill is almost €600m. That’s where the money goes.
 

cyberman

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I haven't said that we're doomed or that we'll fall away. It's stagnation, rather than collapse, that is the concern here.

The club's edge, financially, has been somewhat erroded. Our success (or failure) in the coming years is largely going to be based on how intelligently we operate in the market/with managerial appointments, rather than our ability (relative to our rivals) to spend our way out of trouble.
But our deals are out of sync with the rest as well. Itll be another 2 odd years before we can sign new shirt deals etc and creep back up.
Its all moot anyway. Barca spend all their money on wages and flops while the tv deals have boosted England up so much that any sponsorship deal seems minimal. It doesn't actually mean much.
If Amazon etc do get involved and streaming takes off then we might as well forget marketing. We already see smaller sides resist big money simply because they dont need it so, unless we start spending 200m on a player, all top sides just spend the same.
Mharez, Pepe, VVD, Maguire.. Its a wash.
 

GlastonSpur

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Spurs income continues to rapidly grow (21% rise since last year's Deloitte report) to now stand at £459.3m.

Matching Liverpool's income is our next financial target.
 

Skills

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Our growth has stagnated mainly because we're now towards the back-end of the deals we signed. They were hugely overvalued at the start (Adidas, Chevrolet etc) but other clubs have caught on now.
 

cyberman

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Our growth has stagnated mainly because we're now towards the back-end of the deals we signed. They were hugely overvalued at the start (Adidas, Chevrolet etc) but other clubs have caught on now.
Na, we were just ahead of the new cycle, couple that with our fanbase and the reach of the EPL means we set the value.
The fact others negotiate off the back of it shows its not overvalued. Its the standard bearer.

Example
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/man-utd-close-record-70m-20960689

Edit can Sky wait until we are actually overtaken before they cheat the story and say wr are in danger of it acting as if it already happened?
They should be praising the finacial health of our league if anything
 
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Chesterlestreet

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They don't have their own TV deal.
True, not for a while now. But they make more money from broadcasting than ever before (I think) - and there's still a pretty huge gap between Barca/Real and the rest.

ETA Atletico sit in a tier of their own between Barca/Real and the rest of the league. Barca rake in twice as much as the "best of the rest" (Sevilla).
 

Chesterlestreet

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How are Bayern generating that kind of revenue without the same TV rights deal as PL clubs?
Sponsorships, I would think.

Their "commercial" income is vast, almost on United's level (whereas they're significantly behind with regard to broadcasting, as you say).
 

Botim

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If you make a quick ranking of that top 10 by trophies won (4pts for CL, 2 for title, 1 for domestic cup) in the last 5 years:

1) Barca 15pts
2) Juventus 14pts
3) Real Madrid 13pts
4) Bayern Munich 12pts
4) PSG 12pts
6) Man City 8pts
7) Chelsea 6pts
8) Liverpool 4pts
9) Man Utd 2pts
10) Tottenham 0pts

And yes, I know it's easier to win a title in Italy or France, but still, it indicates that we get by far the least succes for our bucks lately...
 

Infra-red

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Sponsorships, I would think.

Their "commercial" income is vast, almost on United's level (whereas they're significantly behind with regard to broadcasting, as you say).
They are ahead of us commercially and have been for five years now.

As explained above, United's commercial revenues have been stagnant since 2016 - Barca, Bayern and Real are all ahead of us now in that regard (as are PSG, although that really doesn't count).

2020 Commercial Revenues:

Barca - €383.5m
PSG - €363.4
Bayern - €356.5
Real - €354.6
United - €317.2
 

nokillingmoths

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If you make a quick ranking of that top 10 by trophies won (4pts for CL, 2 for title, 1 for domestic cup) in the last 5 years:

1) Barca 15pts
2) Juventus 14pts
3) Real Madrid 13pts
4) Bayern Munich 12pts
4) PSG 12pts
6) Man City 8pts
7) Chelsea 6pts
8) Liverpool 4pts
9) Man Utd 2pts
10) Tottenham 0pts

And yes, I know it's easier to win a title in Italy or France, but still, it indicates that we get by far the least succes for our bucks lately...
Technically spurs do but i get your point.
 

Chesterlestreet

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They are ahead of us commercially and have been for five years now.
Not according to Forbes. But I guess it depends on exactly how you break it down.

At any rate, they do extremely well commercially - yes.

And what we have on them in terms of total income can be put down to TV money - yes.
 

momo83

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They are ahead of us commercially and have been for five years now.

As explained above, United's commercial revenues have been stagnant since 2016 - Barca, Bayern and Real are all ahead of us now in that regard (as are PSG, although that really doesn't count).

2020 Commercial Revenues:

Barca - €383.5m
PSG - €363.4
Bayern - €356.5
Real - €354.6
United - €317.2
This is the league that might get Woodward the sack
 

Josep Dowling

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It would be interesting to see the club's reaction if the media make a big deal of us losing our top billing in Britain.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/11907883/manchester-united-third-in-2020-deloitte-football-money-league-behind-barcelona-and-real-madrid
"If you think about where we were 10 years ago, the idea that City would overhaul United in financial terms would have seemed far-fetched."
City's accounts mean absolutely nothing when their owner also owns nearly all the companies that provide sponsorship income to the club. It's financial doping.
 

Warlord

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Spurs income continues to rapidly grow (21% rise since last year's Deloitte report) to now stand at £459.3m.

Matching Liverpool's income is our next financial target.
:nono: That's not going to happen especially when your out of the CL.