So you weren't a little nervous following the loss away to Chelsea?
Did Liverpool have a good season? [Poll added]
- Thread starter Josep Dowling
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
If you're nervous about beating Brighton at home you should stop supporting a football team.
That's because Chelsea had such a poor run.
I'd say sealing top 4 on the last day of the season is scraping it.
Have to have it to you, that was a good one. Felt that right down in the nethers!
No, not in the slightest. I even said as much in the top four thread.
I didn’t think we’d lose to Brighton and I didn’t think Chelsea would beat Newcastle.
But letting it go all the way to the last game of the season was hardly part of the plan.
Exactly. Chelsea’s poor run earlier in the season meant that we were comfortable in the top four and had nothing to worry about.
One goal put Spurs ahead of us. Five points (plus a huge GD advantage) seperated Liverpool and Chelsea.
I don’t think it mattered as long as we went to Kiev knowing we were already qualified.
You weren't comfortable at all. You had to get results right until the final day and despite having VVD still bumbled through the final PL fixtures.
Which didn’t matter because we were so comfortable in the top four. The fact that we could bumble (did you mean stumble?) through those games without falling out of the top four shows how comfortable we were.
Good season for Liverpool. Doesnt matter if you finish 2nd through to 4th. Did well to get to a champions league final Played some terrific football, and didnt let losing Coutinho derail them which was a credit to Klopp
Sorry but you're talking rubbish. The fact you had to rely on other teams losing to get top 4 shows how comfortable you were? I'm lost.
Wait what?! We signed Fekir already?
Woohoo!
I wish I shared your confidence, but what comes to Pool I believe when The Fakir is wearing the teqm shirt.
Wouldn’t be the first time TR.
So then by that logic would you say that United and Spurs finished 2nd and 3rd but not comfortably?
United’s end of season form could’ve seen Spurs or Liverpool finish 2nd but neither of those two finished strongly enough to capitalise, and the same can be said of Spurs finishing third. If we’d beaten West Brom or Stoke, we would’ve finished ahead of them.
Either all of Spurs, Liverpool and United finished comfortably in the top four, or none of them did based on the end of season form of the clubs involved.
Again, why do you lot always compare United to Liverpool.Wouldn’t be the first time TR.
So then by that logic would you say that United and Spurs finished 2nd and 3rd but not comfortably?
United’s end of season form could’ve seen Spurs or Liverpool finish 2nd but neither of those two finished strongly enough to capitalise, and the same can be said of Spurs finishing third. If we’d beaten West Brom or Stoke, we would’ve finished ahead of them.
Either all of Spurs, Liverpool and United finished comfortably in the top four, or none of them did based on the end of season form of the clubs involved.
All bloody obsessed!
United were comfortable in the top 4 as they had a two place buffer. No one finished strongly.
A club that was mired in mediocrity managed to qualify for the champions league, played in a champions league final, produced a golden boot contender all the while playing some of the best attacking football in Europe. How is this even a question?
Because United are relevant to the discussion we’re having, as are Spurs and Chelsea.
It’s not an obsession to bring Liverpool’s top four rivals into a discussion about the top four.
They finished 4th two seasons ago. They finished 4th last season. They won nothing during either. It's certainly worthy of discussion.
We didn’t finish 4th two seasons ago? We finished 2nd in 13/14 then followed it with 6th and 8th. Before 13/14 we’d finished 6th, 8th and 6th.
You finished 4th last season. You finished 4th the season before. Hence two seasons ago. You know what I meant.
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I know right!? Yeah! No! I made a mistake, I meant the guy you signed last summer, Naby Keita.
Sorry for the confusion.
Success is dependent on the statute of the club. Liverpool are a historical big club comparable to United (albeit still a bit lower), however during the last years they are a 6th-8th club squad and even money wise. Last season was a good one for them, they were expected to finish 6th to 4th at best which they did. This season would've been already good if they had just managed to finish 4th already. The strong CL run was much more than they could've imagined, combined with the no nonsense attacking style makes it a very good season. A CL win would've had them having the best season out of all PL clubs all things considered (squad strength and budget). Next season a top 4 finish would still be okay, but not good anymore if they drop out of the CL early and do not win one of the minor trophies.
A comparison like the OP did to United doesn't make any sense since there is a big gulf in squad and financial strength. Before this season, not a single person would've preferred a front line consisting of Mane, Salah and Firmino to Sanchez, Lukaku and Martial/Rashford. I bet no one would've traded Salah for Sanchez or even Martial for that matter. Pretty much every single player improved this season, which can't be said about most of the top teams.
A comparison like the OP did to United doesn't make any sense since there is a big gulf in squad and financial strength. Before this season, not a single person would've preferred a front line consisting of Mane, Salah and Firmino to Sanchez, Lukaku and Martial/Rashford. I bet no one would've traded Salah for Sanchez or even Martial for that matter. Pretty much every single player improved this season, which can't be said about most of the top teams.
And yet they finished in the same league position with a point less.
It doesn't work like this though, Leicester would've had a very good season had they managed to finish in the top 4 (or even top 6) after they won the league. Before this season, most neutrals would've have had both Manchester clubs and Chelsea as 1st-3rd, with Spurs finishing 4th and Liverpool battling it out with Arsenal for 5th-6th. It's about (realistic) expectations that can be made before the season started. No one would expect Liverpool making the CL final next year either...
No, they wouldn't, I agree with that. However, you said that pretty much every single Liverpool player improved this season. Their league position didn't improve, nor did their points tally. That seems odd.
Though made it to the final of the most prestigious club competition...
You know what a big reason is for a lot of United fans being very against Mourinho and the general negativity around the club? Getting knocked out by Sevilla in the round of 16 and the way we got knocked out. Embarassingly early to an average side, on our own turf. If we got past that and made it to a reasonable stage, the mood wouldve been a lot better around the club, even with the shit football we see most of the time.
I swear the only people who try to claim liverpool didnt have a good season are those that are in denial and basically put down the importance of the champions league just because they did well and we were shit. Make no mistake, it's the most important competition, and if you do well in that, then your season is a success so long as the bare minimum is achieved elsewhere.
I haven't claimed that Liverpool didn't have a good season. In fact, I said they had in this very thread.
Interestingly, though, Liverpool played the 'average' Sevilla side twice in the CL, just as we did. They didn't beat them, either.
Why? Wouldn't you say that most of their players improved if you are being honest? Last season they could've easily finished 5th if you lot weren't on that horrible form in the league and concentrating for the EL for instance, your squad definitely wasn't worse than theirs (probably better) and Arsenal's too. This season you guys splashed out some serious money and did a lot better in the league. They are and won't be able to compete with United, City and Chelsea moneywise for another couple of years at least, which means their main objective is to try securing the top four spot and hoping for one of the big clubs to have a really bad spell like you guys did after Fergie and Chelsea this year while slowly improving their squad.
So would you say their season would have been more of a success if they got knocked out at the CL quarters by City but then weren't distracted in the league and beat Chelsea, Stoke and West Brom instead of the 2 draws and a defeat in 3 of the 4 last games? Would give them 7 more points and changed absolutely nothing at the end of the day, other then not doing anything special in Europe. See the point? Points tally between seasons means very, very little. It's not a good comparison, pretty much ever.
They stopped caring in the league as top 4 was done. Mathematically, it wasnt, sure, but nobody ever doubted it. They were allowed to draw to west brom, draw to stoke, lose to Chelsea who were closest to them in 3 of their last 4 games and they still finished 5 points clear with a miles better goal differential. They achieved top 4, if they needed more points before those games, theres little doubt that they would have gotten more points instead of shifting all focus to the final.
I'd say from our perspective, itd definitely he a good season for us if United got top 4 and made it to a CL final next season. Would give the fans a lot more belief that Mourinho knows what hes doing in the biggest competition. It doesnt really matter finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th or if we finish on 75 or 81 points when at the end of the day, we still finished almost 20 points off the title. Some top United sides won the league with less then 80 points, while in 11/12 we were 2nd with 89 points. Comparing points between seasons just doesnt work.
Why? Because if every one of their players improved, I would expect that to be reflected in their league performance. Fact is they finished in the same position. They also broke the world transfer record for a defender, spent something like £60 million on Keita, 40 million on Salah, etc. Let's not pretend that they're paupers here.
It really isn't.
If they didn't have a good season, then they either had a mediocre season or a bad season. However, it's not plausible to opt for mediocre or bad when they reached the CL final and finished in the top 4.
If they won nothing and finished higher then 4th? Yes, I would say that would be more successful than winning nothing and finishing 4th.
Yup. Agree on both counts mate. Another thing that is being undersold is the fact that players would have taken notice of them more over the course of their campaign, and players who may have been hesitant to join now would be more inclined to do so seeing that they are actually making progress building towards something where you can actually see what they’re trying to accomplish.
Makes me sick.
And yet we're nine pages in. Obviously not worthy of discussion.
25 points behind the champions and no pots shouldn't be described as a successful season. Well not unless Liverpool fans are accepting that the best they aspire to is also rans.
It simply means that a fair few posters are so biased against Liverpool that they'd vote 'bad season' even if they won the CL final.
Except you just made that up.
Liverpool, best attack in the league, most improved team in the league, 2nd best team in Europe, still in 4th place. Reminds me a bit of the Rafa Benitez days, except they actually won stuff. Klopp a knock off Benitez?
It's an opinion, not an invention.
Nah, I think you're letting your hatred for Liverpool cloud your judgement here. They lost their best player in the middle of their season and reinvested the money in defence (VVD) and midfield (Ox), albeit way overpriced at the time those players still were worth their money until now. They bought Salah who was the only "true" investment and he turned out to be excellent business, even the small buys like Robertson were hits. They kinda overachieved last year and although their squad wasn't improved that much this season (I think there are a lot people who wouldn't have traded Coutinho for VVD and Ox for instance) they managed to pretty comfortably get to top 4 again while also playing some excellent football in the CL which has improved their standing as a club internationally quite a bit I think. I can still remember how many were (rightfully) predicting a collapse after the Coutinho sale and the season still went better than even the most biased Liverpool fans could've expected (reaching the CL final with that kind of midfield is almost a joke tbh)