Do teams play better against us than against other teams?

[Moriarty]

The fear factor has gone. Teams used to come to Old Trafford knowing they'd be under the cosh for 90 minutes. If they came away with a draw or a win, they were on cloud nine. These days, we're nothing special, or at least we play like that, but United is still a big scalp for the Brightons and Derbys of this world.

 

[Mick321]

This is the sort of crap Liverpool fans used to come out with when we were dominating, teams apparently didn't try v us etc and how they "hit the woodwork" a lot meant they were unlucky. We just aren't very good so won't brush crap aside as easily as others do.

 

[adexkola]

You have to earn that respect.

There was a reason why we destroyed teams in 06/07. Teams didn't respect us (they had little reason to, given the previous 2 seasons). We had a string of wins where we put 4 goals past 4 teams in a row. What happened the following season? Teams sat back.

We don't pose as much of a threat to open sides as Liverpool and City do.

 

[MadDogg]

It's a combination of being 'up' for the match against us, and the fact that they aren't really scared of us now. If it were just one of those things it wouldn't be particularly noticable, but the combination of both means that all the teams we face see a real opportunity to get a result against the great Manchester United.

 

[MetoTTT]

We're playing worse against them than other teams.

 

[wolvored]

Yes agree with most of the posters we are so poor these last few years that they know if they attack us they will probably get a result, certainly score. We were always susceptible to a bad result under Fergie so thats what added to the myth teams played a blinder when playing us

 

[hungrywing]

Purely technically speaking, should be pretty straightforward - if time-consuming - to investigate statistically.

The club's probably done it.

But it's the kind of thing that would be mooted by taking a different footballing approach. AKA all the 'we invite them to do so' posts basically boil down to 'well if we didn't let them, then they wouldn't'.

 

[Irwin99]

Used to happen a lot more. I know they're our rivals and performance efforts are obviously raised in derby matches but back when City were crap and Leeds were in the PL their players put in 100% extra effort against us. If they had put 10% of that when they played other teams they might not have had so many crap seasons.

Nowadays I think teams know we're vulnerable and that encourages them to attack more. Don't think there's any other reason.

 

[El Zoido]

Teams raise their games against us because we’re still a massive scalp. It’s no excuse though.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Yes. We're the biggest game of the season for at least 15 clubs in the league. For many players we're the biggest game of their lives. No one's going to tell their grandchidren about the time they played against Spurs.

 

[Kazi]

No, teams just play with more confidence against us

 

[JPJohnson]

Yes, because no one fears us currently. We have a manager that is scared of the opposition, even if they're in the Championship.

 

[Rozay]

No, teams just play with more confidence against us

More confidence than they do against worse teams than us?

 

[Irrational.]

Just look at the number of keepers have had the game of their lives against us, or no-mark strikers that have scored against us and fecked off into obscurity, and that should answer your question. The lower class teams definitely have an extra oomph in their stride when they play against us, as they want to prove something. A win against Manchester United is something they and the fans remember for the rest of their lives, it goes down in the history of the club. Playing at the Theatre of Dreams or having United come to town is what every player in the English league aspires to, it is the pinnacle of their footballing career.

You cannot get that same motivation when playing against the likes of Spurs and Everton. Directly or indirectly, consciously or subconsciously, playing against us has a huge psychological impact.

 

[KanieKaned]

More than seemingly every other team in the league? West Ham were hopeless and lost every game before playing us. Until we decided to let them be great?

WH prior to playing us had shown they were coming out of their shit show slump. WH have also always been a ''Bogey team'' per se. It also doesn't help that the fear factor is long gone when playing us and that we have a tendency to be so passive and unwilling to go into games and try murder them in the first half that it invites teams to grow in confidence and come at us with everything they have and invariably get something from the game. Look at Newcastle? No real great shakes and bang they are 2 up. WE finally get the finger out and manage to get the desired result.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

"Want to make a name for yourself?
Then, Raise your game against United.
But wait, there's more.
A goal at 'em can shoot you to fame for weeks.
So go raise your game and score."​

That and the United teams post-SAF let teams play and have a go at themselves.
We need to bully them, not let them play.
Attack, attack, attack!
Fear factor is gone, we're a laughingstock right now.

 

[f_to_z]

Most teams specially in the premier league will go into any match with confidence they can secure a draw or even a win against top teams. Its during the match that this confidence stays, grows or gets shattered.

Teams like City, Liverpool, Chelsea quickly inforce their dominance and thus the opponent realizes it and lose that confidence and sit back.

United on the other hand give too much respect for those teams and start the game very cautious. This slowly gives the opponents confidence to attack and dominate the match. Specially if they score an early goal.

United should show intent from the first minute that they mean business and you will notice teams couring back fearing a big loss.

 

[Raees]

We are a passive side for the most part tactically and that gives the opponent the incentive to come at us and impose themselves. This levels the playing field with their extra confidence and aggression negating our superior collective skill set.

We are only allowed to come out and play when we are losing and that is when you see us match their aggressiveness and willingness to compete. You’ll also see greater confidence on the ball and greater appetite for risk on the ball and that is when our superior skill set comes into play and we generally get back into games and turn the result around.

It’s not really rocket science.

 

[WR10]

We are a passive side for the most part tactically and that gives the opponent the incentive to come at us and impose themselves. This levels the playing field with their extra confidence and aggression negating our superior collective skill set.

We are only allowed to come out and play when we are losing and that is when you see us match their aggressiveness and willingness to compete. You’ll also see greater confidence on the ball and greater appetite for risk on the ball and that is when our superior skill set comes into play and we generally get back into games and turn the result around.

It’s not really rocket science.

This is the simplest and most precise description that anyone has posted. It really is that simple. It's all in our players heads.

 

[Canagel]

Has been happening for decades, we've not been passive for decades. Obviously players try harder against the bigger clubs and some especially against United, as they're driven on by their fans, who all appear to hate United. Plenty of crap teams raised their games during Fergie's tenure.

We won PL titles under SAF. Those results where small teams beat us didn't happen a lot. It wasn't a excuse for us back then so why should it be an excuse now? It was never a problem because we had a fear factor and most teams that come to play were swept aside. Our philosophy was to score as many goals as possible. That fear factor is gone now. Didn't you hear glenn murray speaking recently? He said everyone believes you can get a result against United. Back then you were never sure about the result right until the last minute because teams knew we would throw the kitchen sink at the end.

 

[GeorgieBoy]

I'd agree with most that we allow teams to play more than the likes of Pool/City and we simply aren't good enough as a team the moment.

One thing I will say though is we're the only team in the league who will play in front of a full stadium every single time we travel. The fans seem to like getting one over on us more than most as its likely they'll all have local United-supporting mates. I imagine that plays at least some form of contributing factor.

 

[B20]

I think smaller teams raise their game against any of the top teams if they smell blood enough to believe that they might get points from it. Any of them would rather have 3 points against Liverpool or United than against Burnley.

 

[Red_toad]

We won PL titles under SAF. Those results where small teams beat us didn't happen a lot. It wasn't a excuse for us back then so why should it be an excuse now? It was never a problem because we had a fear factor and most teams that come to play were swept aside. Our philosophy was to score as many goals as possible. That fear factor is gone now. Didn't you hear glenn murray speaking recently? He said everyone believes you can get a result against United. Back then you were never sure about the result right until the last minute because teams knew we would throw the kitchen sink at the end.

So you’re completely denying some players raise their game against United? Well you’re entitled to your opinion.

 

[Gordon S]

No, just can’t believe that these professional footballers only would be properly up for it for a handful of games each season, just doesn’t add up.

The reason they look good against us is because we’re just not a functional side these days. Even championship teams are able to look decent against us.

The reason we still manage to come out on top most games is because we have a much stronger squad then most of the teams we play.

 

[TsuWave]

yes, because we are a poor team that hardly presses, and isn’t very good at creating either, thus allowing even average sides to settle and play their game

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

Most teams and their fans hate United for past success, so there’s always an element of them trying harder. But making them look like world beaters on the day - that’s on us. We play the same way regardless of the quality of the opposition and this allows the poorer sides to grow in to the game cos they’ve so much of the ball. This is while our own confidence dwindles and the players treat the ball like a hot potatoe once theyre eventually on it.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

It’s a myth.

It’s like when we come up against those usually average goalkeepers that seem to turn into a hybrid of de gea and neuer......They don’t it’s just our strikers can’t finish anything and make them look good.

 

[buchansleftleg]

Whilst undoubtedly some individual players will raise their game when they play against any of the "big clubs" I don't think that explains the issues we have faced recently.

In terms of general attacking play all premier league clubs can now afford to buy good attacking talent from around the world. The days of the bottom half of the table just having big plodding target men only are long gone, but that applies to everyone so I don't think that's a key factor.

Under Ferguson an opposition goalie might have the "game of their lives" and hold United to a draw or even hold onto an unlikely win. On those occasions though they would have been battered from all angles, with attacks coming from multiple players, being exposed to crosses, free kicks, long balls, intricate triangles on the edge of the box, defenders making an extra man...etc etc. They would probably have had to pull off 9 or 10 critical saves / last ditch defending from their teammates.

Unfortunately under LVG and especially Mourinho we have become passive, plodding and predictable. For a lesser teams goalie to have the "game of their lives" currently they might need to pull off 4 or 5 key saves. We will probably miss 1 or 2 clear chances and we certainly won't try and overwhelm them with numbers in their penalty area.

I'm not one for searching for stats but I'm sure that the number and intensity of United's attacks has fallen dramatically and we don't sustain pressure on the smaller clubs in the same way.

So it's no surprise if we don't apply the same mounting pressure, if we don't pepper their goals with attempts from a variety of angles that opposition teams only have to raise their game by a much smaller margin than they would have had to do in the past to get a result from us.

 

[Honest John]

Didn’t Sir Alex once say players were cheating their manager by raising their game against us? I remember West Ham denying us the league title in ‘95 even though they’d already been relegated.....

Yes - it prompted Keegans famous melt-down

 

[Rafaeldagold]

It’s a mixture of both us not imposing ourselves on games but also teams do raise their game against us for sure.

There’s a prestige about beating United no matter how fall you think we’ve fallen we are still Manchester United & it will mean much more to a player & fan base beating us than any other team in the league. Even Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool don’t stir up as much of a desire to win than the biggest team in England & one of biggest in the world.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Myth. We are just shit.

 

[noodlehair]

I think they do at the moment, but I think that's because we encourage teams to play well against us.

if Derby or Newcastle opened up the game and tried to get on the front foot against City or Liverpool, the most likely end result would be them being 3-0 down after about 20 minutes. Even if they managed to exert a degree of control on the ball they would be at risk of being picked off with the space they leave open.

If we did this a few times, which we could against poor sides, teams would soon get the message to not turn up and try to outplay us. Instead we tend to start games as if we think we're participating in Soccer Aid, so after 20 minutes it looks like Derby, for example, are Barcelona playing at the Camp Nou...which doesn't exactly send the same message of discouragement to opponents.

 

[Get In Scholesy]

I would say so.

Playing Manchester United for a lot of players is like a cup final. Even under the Fergie years some of our best sides would struggle to grind out results against lower teams. Players can go into Old Trafford and feel no pressure because they would be expected to lose, which would, in a strange way, up their performances against us.

These days is similar but should be examined in a different context.

1) Teams in the Premier League are much much stronger.
2) Although we do have a better team than most, we still let the opposition play, which can be a hindrance.
3) Very rarely do we find a way to win in the dying minutes before. We sort of come to accept a shit result for what it is.

 

[Nick7]

Both? Smaller teams will always try and raise their game against the top clubs. It's up to the top clubs to stop them doing that. Other clubs seem to handle it much better than we can.

 

[junglemusic]

We're still a big scalp to get - we're just not a great football team anymore.

 

[Class of 63]

I think we have reached that point, smaller clubs don’t differentiate between us and the other top 6 anymore. All teams think they have a chance against us, and the difference between us and City, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea is that if they had a go at any of those teams and didn’t get it right they would get smashed by 4,5,6,7 goals. If we dominate a team, we might win by 2 goals - so the consequences of having a good go at is are far less. We are not feared, Newcastle showed that last weekend.

Sadly the often of late they don't have to put in any great extra effort to get s result

Unless the thread title has been changed recently i've miss-read it as do teams try harder against us(which they do, and that's not just my opinion) as opposed to play better against us.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

More than seemingly every other team in the league? West Ham were hopeless and lost every game before playing us. Until we decided to let them be great?

Yes.

We sat back like a bunch of wimps. We played with fear and caution and invited fearlessness and expansiveness from the opposition. If we play a team from India I'm sure we'd also bring the swagger. Barcelona made us look like dunces in CL finals. Your opponent matters. Big time.

 

[Class of 63]

More than seemingly every other team in the league? West Ham were hopeless and lost every game before playing us. Until we decided to let them be great?

And there's me thinking they'd won 3-1 @ Goodison Park, drawn 0-0 with high-flying Chelsea and then put 8(eight) past Macclesfield Town in the League Cup before playing United.

 

[Motorman]

I do agree to be honest

 

[edgar allan]

Unless the thread title has been changed recently i've miss-read it as do teams try harder against us(which they do, and that's not just my opinion) as opposed to play better against us.

Is there no correlation between trying harder and playing better?
Are you suggesting that they don't do the same against Liverpool city etc?
Our standards and work rate have dropped whilst it is the opposite for most other teams.
It's the same as the excuses about opposition goalkeepers having world class performances against us when De gea has being doing the same for years.