Do the fans actually trust ETH or is he walking the Green Mile?

[fallengt]

I still believe he's the best candidate since SAF but after cup final, he hasn't done many thing right.
I always thought he was too cocky that he thought he could've fixed this squad when he first came here. It isn't happening. Bin them in the summer

 

[NLunited]

This is absolutely unequivocal nonsense. I've seen some bad takes on redcafe before, but frankly how low an opinion of your club can you have if you believe this. Every summer people say "why would a top player come to our club" and -every- summer a top player comes to our club. Never forgotten how everyone told me that Pogba would never sign for a club like us at the time, that Ronaldo would choose city, etc. Even Martinez turned down arsenal I believe. We had first dibs on Haaland but Raiola wanted that release clause for his payoff too, which was why Dortmund had to sell.

Original article from de Telegraaf but here https://www.sportbible.com/football...bed-arsenal-when-they-approached-him-20220714

No it is right on. We had to pay Ronaldo and Pogba astronomical wages and they both were here before.

Martinez followed Ten Hag.

I‘m sorry you are/were in denial about the state of our club.

 

[Chipper]

Well I don't want him sacked, and that's what I'd be calling for if I didn't trust a manager. Far from that.

My confidence that he's going to return us to our glory days has taken a hit recently though. The last 5 or 6 weeks, since we lost at Newcastle has been poor. I'm more towards wait and see mode, less bullish and optimistic. But yeah, I trust him.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

No it is right on. We had to pay Ronaldo and Pogba astronomical wages and they both were here before.

Martinez followed Ten Hag.

I‘m sorry you are/were in denial about the state of our club.

You have oppo WUM vibes.

Strong ones.

 

[AshRK]

In context of things (Chelsea having their worst ever season in EPL, Spurs being shit, Liverpool who were getting 90+ points being shit), not reaching UCL zone is very bad and a total failure IMO. Especially considering that we were 10+ points ahead of Liverpool (even now with 5 matches remaining, all against second half teams and 3 at home, we are 4 points ahead with one extra match). Not getting the fourth is criminal.

If we get 70 plus points then we deserve top 4 and doesn't matter if chelsea have been shit or spurs have been shit. In last 7 seasons 70 points gets you top 4 so saying only reason we finish 4th because chelsea are crap doesn't make sense.

 

[PoTMS]

Depends. I don't think he'll be the guy that will get us to win the Premier League or Champions League anytime soon - especially if his competition is Klopp and Pep - but I think he'll play his part in developing the squad ready to compete in the future, not necessarily under his management.

 

[NLunited]

You have oppo WUM vibes.

Strong ones.

Ah no we were in shambles. Go back and watch the end of last season.

 

[big_jeffstar]

Of course, it was always going to be an up and down season, we’re still relying on the same plodders that consistently throw in dodgy performances when they feel like it, he’s actually doing better than I thought he would in his first season tbh,
it all rests on top four though.. I think everyone would be disappointed if we throw it away at this stage.

 

[Adnan]

You have to judge on more than purely results, do you see progression, is the floor of the squad being raised, is a style of play emerging, is the culture improving? For those three above these questions result in very damning answers.

Also to add to your post. The question must be asked as to what Erik ten Hag is attempting to implement and who in the starting 11 was and is the problem? The answer to this question answers the question posed by creator of the thread.

It's about trusting his ideas when it comes to implementing a proactive attacking brand of football. And then trying to figure out where the problems are within the first 11.

And it's very easy to see where the problems are in this team and these problems go back many many years, hence I've constantly pointed out the issues about us being unable to play a proactive, attacking brand of football for years.

But if one can't see the problems that force ten Hag to compromise on his principles of play, then what we see in this thread and others is pretty normal. Liverpool fans did the same with Klopp, where many didn't think he was a Liverpool manager, especially after they brought a loan signing (Steven Caulker) in who was a CB by trade but Klopp played him as a striker by going direct.

Recruitment is also not difficult if you know where the problems are in conjunction with how the head coach wants to play.

 

[Ish]

I suppose they mean ''relegation form away from home when playing against the top 9.'' Guess all the ETH doubters, doom and gloom merchants and people who just love to moan need to be a bit more specific next time.

amen

 

[Ish]

Yeah I think we are. We've won away at most of the bottom clubs. Which is great. But that away record against top half teams is not sustainable.

Agreed but “generally”, you take everything into context before going into a meltdown…not just nitpick stats and that suits your prerogative

 

[Renegade]

Wouldn’t put it past Madrid scooping him up after Carlo hangs it up. We’d soon see a change in attitude from the fanbase when rumours start circulating. When I think about it I reckon Bayern would be very interested in ETH too if Tuchel doesn’t work out.

 

[pascell]

I've said a few times, I'll only judge him next season and see if he learns from mistakes made this season.

 

[redshaw]

Had we lost Greenwood and Ronaldo earlier the story would have been different. From what I remember Greenwood was during the season, right? Or was it just before

Greenwood was removed halfway through last season under Rangnick.

 

[lsd]

Spent 80 million on Antony despite having watched him every day at Ajax so not sure I completely trust his judgment yet

 

[GazTheLegend]

Ah no we were in shambles. Go back and watch the end of last season.

No, he's right. If you think City, Liverpool etc aren't paying "astronomical wages" too you're in the wrong forum, and need to go back. Plenty of top players can and will choose us in the future.

 

[Stacks]

First, you have to realize that no top players in their right mind wanted to come to Man United no more.

In that context, Ten Hag getting top players that he knows and that want to play for him make sense: Martinez, Antony, Eriksen.

Casemiro played against Ten Hag, when Ajax humiliated them two times. He also wanted to play for him and was not put off by the challenge (compare this to fecking Ronaldo).

We are in a better position now: on the brink of securing CL next season and we have a top manager.

To think he has no knowledge of players outside of eredivisie is naive.

The only thing holding us back now is the ownership situation.

Literally every season. Ronaldo, Verane, Casimiro, Sancho, Alexis, Zlatan, Pogba.

Neither Eriksen nor Antony are top players.

 

[Baxquux]

No, he's right. If you think City, Liverpool etc aren't paying "astronomical wages" too you're in the wrong forum, and need to go back. Plenty of top players can and will choose us in the future.

This, plus of course what Man City have been formally accused of and what they've been strongly rumoured to have engaged in beyond this (but can't be formally accused of at present legally) with regards to accounting practices and secret payments...

 

[SirReginald]

Literally every season. Ronaldo, Verane, Casimiro, Sancho, Alexis, Zlatan, Pogba.

Neither Eriksen nor Antony are top players.

Disagree Eriksen is a brilliant player. Might not be the best Eriksen after his health issues but his delivery is top class. For Spurs he always caused us problems with his movement and crossing.

As for this thread. Ludicrous any United “fan” would doubt the guy. Baldy has put you back on the map. Sorry to say but you were irrelevant for 10 years. There was no chance he was going to fix every issue and compete for a title in a single season. Compared to where you were last year, it’s been an utterly fantastic season. A decent striker and you would have gained more points, that’s not his fault.

 

[redcucumber]

Disagree Eriksen is a brilliant player. Might not be the best Eriksen after his health issues but his delivery is top class. For Spurs he always caused us problems with his movement and crossing.

As for this thread. Ludicrous any United “fan” would doubt the guy. Baldy has put you back on the map. Sorry to say but you were irrelevant for 10 years. There was no chance he was going to fix every issue and compete for a title in a single season. Compared to where you were last year, it’s been an utterly fantastic season. A decent striker and you would have gained more points, that’s not his fault.

Interesting to see an opposition fan with a hell of a lot more perspective than a significant chunk of United fans on here. Great post.

 

[Witchking]

I think i trust him but not the players. Fred, Mctominay, Rashford, Shaw, Lindeloff, De Gea, Maguire, AWB, Dalot, Martial seem to be all good when we are on a good run, but when it is time to stand up and be counted, we miss the boat. Bruno is the only one i would excuse as he has shown the capabilities and what we miss when he doesn't play.
These players have been part part of almost all the beatings we have received. Top 4 is still not confirmed after being 100% sure way back in FEB.

Unless ETH brings in better replacements, i would not think he will stay a long time as these players will ruin his job.

 

[Baxquux]

Also , top players will always go to clubs where they're paid enough and they have a chance to play in top-level competition, unless there's something desperately amiss far beyond even the (undoubted) issues that the Glazer management and various management regimes have brought onto the club, like proximity to a conflict zone or the club being based in Siberia (and even with that, money can go a long way) or something. So, lets say, at the moment RM will generally be favourites when going in for a player against anyone else... but even with Real Madrid's reputation and more clement weather if we managed to eke out 4 CLs in a row or something in the next 4 years and were able to pay the same net, the balance would shift slightly (maybe 55/45 to us all else being equal) and so forth. Against other clubs, it would only take a change of ownership and a good year next year (plus willingness to pay certain agent fees, lets say) to fully compete for the very best players in a head to head

 

[NLunited]

Literally every season. Ronaldo, Verane, Casimiro, Sancho, Alexis, Zlatan, Pogba.

Neither Eriksen nor Antony are top players.

Eriksen is top and Antony is already better than Sancho. From your list, the only good signings were Zlatan (despite his age) and Varane. Casemiro came for Ten Hag.

 

[Stacks]

Disagree Eriksen is a brilliant player. Might not be the best Eriksen after his health issues but his delivery is top class. For Spurs he always caused us problems with his movement and crossing.

As for this thread. Ludicrous any United “fan” would doubt the guy. Baldy has put you back on the map. Sorry to say but you were irrelevant for 10 years. There was no chance he was going to fix every issue and compete for a title in a single season. Compared to where you were last year, it’s been an utterly fantastic season. A decent striker and you would have gained more points, that’s not his fault.

Eriksen is a decent player nothing more. He should be a bench/role player for a challenging side. Having delivery does not make you a brilliant player. He has major weakness.
From 2018-2021 we finished 2nd TWICE (twice in 4 years) won Europa League + another final, won League cup, got to FA Cup final so that's simply false that we were irrelevent for 10 years and that he has put us back on the map as we pretty much had higher peaks under previous coaches.

Eriksen is top and Antony is already better than Sancho. From your list, the only good signings were Zlatan (despite his age) and Varane. Casemiro came for Ten Hag.

How is Eriksen top? What top team would he start for? Being better than Sancho is such a low bar. You do realise that many games we play, the oppo winger looks better than Sancho

 

[Stacks]

Interesting to see an opposition fan with a hell of a lot more perspective than a significant chunk of United fans on here. Great post.

what they said was complete nonsense though. we won both the Europa and League cup under Jose, got 2nd twice in 4 years and reached Europa finals and came 2nd in the same season.

 

[AshRK]

He is a top manager. The work he did post WC was top notch. We played some brilliant without a proper number 9. The issue was our squad is way too thin and we have some mediocre players in the bench.

 

[Lee565]

I'm not sold when we are clinging to 4th spot against an ageing liverpool side that is having a bad season

 

[KikiDaKats]

Certainly didn't sound like it in the Erik thread last night,many were proper chucking him under the bus for the away form

Depends. I don't think he'll be the guy that will get us to win the Premier League or Champions League anytime soon - especially if his competition is Klopp and Pep - but I think he'll play his part in developing the squad ready to compete in the future, not necessarily under his management.

For me that will be job well done. I wanted him because I want us to transition to a particular type of football and believe him to be the guy for that.
Lately I’ve been disappointed because it looks like he is straying and trying to consolidate his little victories but that won’t solve our core problems long term.
So do I trust him? I trust the manager I believe he can be for us but not the one our current circumstances are making him. Us winning the carabao was a trophy ahead of schedule and it derailed our expectations in my opinion.

 

[Revan]

If we get 70 plus points then we deserve top 4 and doesn't matter if chelsea have been shit or spurs have been shit. In last 7 seasons 70 points gets you top 4 so saying only reason we finish 4th because chelsea are crap doesn't make sense.

I didn’t say the only reason we are getting fourth is that Chelsea are shit. More like, it is unacceptable to not get 4th in a season when many other competitors are shit.

 

[AshRK]

I didn’t say the only reason we are getting fourth is that Chelsea are shit. More like, it is unacceptable to not get 4th in a season when many other competitors are shit.

If we don't finish top 4 then yes, major questions have to be asked from the players and the manager.

 

[CM]

We've got no choice but to trust him. United have been down this road way too many times to think we'd be doing any better with another coach but there has to be tangible improvement again next season. Ten Hag banked enough credit earlier this season to carry him through this rough spell but there's no doubt that we've lost huge momentum and we need to get far better at controlling games again, particularly in away matches.

The reality is what happens with United still largely goes beyond the manager, though. If the structure around him doesn't exist or isn't good enough, we'll continue to have the same problems we've always had. Last season Ten Hag more or less hand picked his targets and that's not a sustainable way of running a football club. Likewise, the ownership situation puts barriers in place when it comes to investment and forward planning. There's very little clarity anywhere until that is resolved.

 

[Stacks]

We've got no choice but to trust him. United have been down this road way too many times to think we'd be doing any better with another coach but there has to be tangible improvement again next season. Ten Hag banked enough credit earlier this season to carry him through this rough spell but there's no doubt that we've lost huge momentum and we need to get far better at controlling games again, particularly in away matches.

The reality is what happens with United still largely goes beyond the manager, though. If the structure around him doesn't exist or isn't good enough, we'll continue to have the same problems we've always had. Last season Ten Hag more or less hand picked his targets and that's not a sustainable way of running a football club. Likewise, the ownership situation puts barriers in place when it comes to investment and forward planning. There's very little clarity anywhere until that is resolved.

I agree. My concerns are about us making the necessary improvements around the club to avoid a rinse repeat of the past few hires. I have my doubts that we will. Maybe with new owners it will change.

 

[I Am Zlatan]

I trust him. I don’t trust him with all of the signings(not his job really), but definitely completely trust him as a manager.

 

[Chairman Woodie]

Well I don't want him sacked, and that's what I'd be calling for if I didn't trust a manager. Far from that.

My confidence that he's going to return us to our glory days has taken a hit recently though. The last 5 or 6 weeks, since we lost at Newcastle has been poor. I'm more towards wait and see mode, less bullish and optimistic. But yeah, I trust him.

I think the dip in form can be attributed to United playing every three or four days since the World Cup finished. At one stage United were the only team in Europe competing in four or five competitions. The hectic fixture list was bound to catch up with them.

 

[R0nald0]

I'd divorce my wife and marry slabber if ETH told me too.........

 

[Yorke to Cole]

He is a top manager. The work he did post WC was top notch. We played some brilliant without a proper number 9. The issue was our squad is way too thin and we have some mediocre players in the bench.

That was what I think insummary.I live in Brighton and was talking to Brighton supporters after we lost the match on Thursday. I look at Ten Hag's expressions and I think now he has come to realise the gruelling nature of the Premier League and has seen that we do not have the squad to compete and go hard across four competitions.

The question will come, should he rotated more during the cup competitions during the February period? There has definitely been a drop in performance levels in Casemiro. Eriksen has been poor since his return from injury and Sabitzer has been unfortunate that he has been unable to forge a relationship with Casemiro (due to the latters suspensions).

What frustrates me about Ten Hag, is after a defeat, he comes out says "we have to react, we have to do it, we have to perform better." Erik mate, you don't have the squad to do across 60+ matches. Furthermore, you are not making the changes in game time to arrest the situation when we are getting over run in midfield.

I feel there is a naivety there and again he is seeing how difficult and uncompromising this league is.

I think he will start putting pressure on Arnold and Murtough in regards to the sale and what funds are available because, for the criticism he is getting, he will walk if he feels he getting lied to. Remember, he only has a three year contract!

 

[cpresc]

Spent 80 million on Antony despite having watched him every day at Ajax so not sure I completely trust his judgment yet

I think Antony will look better with a RB who bombs forward to the touch line…. Which I’m sure has always been Eric’s plan

 

[TheRedHearted]

Greenwood was removed halfway through last season under Rangnick.

Got it, Ronaldo showed he could score last year but nothing showed he could play in a ETH system. He wanted out and the plan was to stick with him, and an injury prone Martial.
In other words our season was sabotaged before it began. With us having Sancho there’s no reason we had to spend big on Antony when our CF position was so weak.

 

[NLunited]

Eriksen is a decent player nothing more. He should be a bench/role player for a challenging side. Having delivery does not make you a brilliant player. He has major weakness.
From 2018-2021 we finished 2nd TWICE (twice in 4 years) won Europa League + another final, won League cup, got to FA Cup final so that's simply false that we were irrelevent for 10 years and that he has put us back on the map as we pretty much had higher peaks under previous coaches.


How is Eriksen top? What top team would he start for? Being better than Sancho is such a low bar. You do realise that many games we play, the oppo winger looks better than Sancho

Yet you listed him as an example of a top player who wanted to play for us. Thanks for making my point for me.

 

[Stacks]

Yet you listed him as an example of a top player who wanted to play for us. Thanks for making my point for me.

He was before he joined. Statistically only Messi and Neymar had greater production