Do we extend Ole's contract?

K Stand Knut

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It would take something catastrophic for him to be sacked mid-season, but this is the sort of shallowness I have issues with. We had a tough group last season and just missed out on qualification. What if we get a far easier group and manage to scrape through to the next stage? Technically it would be progress, but would it really show improvement?
Whilst I agree with you, I’m not commenting about him being sacked. It would take a mind-blowing catastrophe for him to be sacked mid-season but I’m talking about him getting a new contract.

I don’t see any positive argument for him not getting a contract extension if we qualify for the CL latter stages and are in the top 4 come December. I’m also not commenting about how much progress will or won’t have been made with the club.


For me, I’ll base it on the progress we made with the acquisitions and sales this summer as well as the performance/results.
 

largelyworried

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There are no upsides to letting your manager get into the final year of their contract. Contracts mean next to nothing to managers anyway, other than defining the price of their payoff when they get sacked. Giving Ole a new contract doesn't guarantee he's staying long term.

On the other hand it undermines his authority with the players, leads to months of speculation in the press and tells the manager we don't trust him. Keeping the manager but undermining him is no solution. Its like keeping the manager but not letting him buy any players because you don't trust his picks. Either you back the manager or you get rid. Doing some halfway house is stupid.
 

MU655

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There are no upsides to letting your manager get into the final year of their contract. Contracts mean next to nothing to managers anyway, other than defining the price of their payoff when they get sacked. Giving Ole a new contract doesn't guarantee he's staying long term.

On the other hand it undermines his authority with the players, leads to months of speculation in the press and tells the manager we don't trust him. Keeping the manager but undermining him is no solution. Its like keeping the manager but not letting him buy any players because you don't trust his picks. Either you back the manager or you get rid. Doing some halfway house is stupid.
Will the players really care? It has been shown time and again that the players have the real power at the club. Long contract or short contract, if the players want the manager out, he will be gone.

I think it is far more dangerous to the club's image and reputation that they reward contracts far too easily. It creates a lackadaisical attitude as they know they don't have to do all that much to get a new contract. It is the same issue with players.

Just do the bare minimum and you get a contract is not a great message to give out.
 

Cloud7

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There are no upsides to letting your manager get into the final year of their contract. Contracts mean next to nothing to managers anyway, other than defining the price of their payoff when they get sacked. Giving Ole a new contract doesn't guarantee he's staying long term.

On the other hand it undermines his authority with the players, leads to months of speculation in the press and tells the manager we don't trust him. Keeping the manager but undermining him is no solution. Its like keeping the manager but not letting him buy any players because you don't trust his picks. Either you back the manager or you get rid. Doing some halfway house is stupid.
We pay our managers higher wages than almost every other club in world football. Considering that Joel watches every penny that comes out of the club, a payoff may actually be prohibitive when it comes to getting rid of a manager. There’s a reason why Moyes and Vangle were only gotten rid of when we were confirmed to not be able to qualify for the CL. It’s because of the payoff.
 

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We came second last season. I have to admire the the Cafs ability to be negative and pessimistic about everything before anything has even happened.

Coming to these forums was a mistake if I felt like having some positivity in the workday. Adieu
Absolutely. On the bolded, honestly, it's beyond a joke at times.

I ask myself why it's accepted when it literally makes some want to avoid the forum. Of course people are 'entitled to their own opinion' but their opinion shouldn't shout down others and totally take over the mood and narrative of the forum.
 

largelyworried

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Will the players really care? It has been shown time and again that the players have the real power at the club. Long contract or short contract, if the players want the manager out, he will be gone.

I think it is far more dangerous to the club's image and reputation that they reward contracts far too easily. It creates a lackadaisical attitude as they know they don't have to do all that much to get a new contract. It is the same issue with players.

Just do the bare minimum and you get a contract is not a great message to give out.
So sack him then. I have no problem with people who think he isnt good enough. If he's not good enough he needs to go. If he is good enough, he needs to be backed. Those positions both make sense, depending on your view of the manager.

What makes no sense is trying to split the difference, you end up with the worst of both worlds.

We pay our managers higher wages than almost every other club in world football. Considering that Joel watches every penny that comes out of the club, a payoff may actually be prohibitive when it comes to getting rid of a manager. There’s a reason why Moyes and Vangle were only gotten rid of when we were confirmed to not be able to qualify for the CL. It’s because of the payoff.
We hear this all the time in football when a high profile manager is on the edge. "Oh they cant afford to sack him". Always turns out to be hot air, they all get sacked anyway.
 

MU655

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So sack him then. I have no problem with people who think he isnt good enough. If he's not good enough he needs to go. If he is good enough, he needs to be backed. Those positions both make sense, depending on your view of the manager.

What makes no sense is trying to split the difference, you end up with the worst of both worlds.
I am a supporter of moving on from him, but if the correct manager isn't available then we might as well stick with him and run down his contract. All the managers I would want have been snapped up. Unfortunately, sticking with Solskjaer has already cost us the chance of getting Tuchel, and potentially Naglesmann.

We just have to hope that someone else appears or becomes available during this next season.
 

MadMike

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We came second last season. I have to admire the the Cafs ability to be negative and pessimistic about everything before anything has even happened.

Coming to these forums was a mistake if I felt like having some positivity in the workday. Adieu
We came 13th in 89/90. Check mate.

Adieu, Tom Cato!
 

MadMike

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Absolutely. On the bolded, honestly, it's beyond a joke at times.
It's beyond a joke to suggest the team is not as strong (personnel, tactically and mentality-wise) as Liverpool or City and will be fighting with Chelsea for 3rd-4th next season?

You guys feeling ok?
 

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It's beyond a joke to suggest the team is not as strong (personnel, tactically and mentality-wise) as Liverpool or City and will be fighting with Chelsea for 3rd-4th next season?

You guys feeling ok?
I’m feeling fine, are you?

I take it your one of the many who now believe Chelsea and Tuchel are the best team in Europe, ignore the fact we finished comfortably above them and another favourite Liverpool just a matter of weeks ago, with the same manager.

What’s your plan? ‘Just sack him so I’m not embarrassed in front of my mates at the pub who call him a PE teacher’ ?

Who is waiting in the wings to sweep us effortlessly to champions of England? Who?

The who doesn’t matter, so long as Ole is sacked though eh.
 

Oldyella

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Absolutely. On the bolded, honestly, it's beyond a joke at times.

I ask myself why it's accepted when it literally makes some want to avoid the forum. Of course people are 'entitled to their own opinion' but their opinion shouldn't shout down others and totally take over the mood and narrative of the forum.
Call the mood police ;)

If people's opinion is generating an overall negative mood then that's what it is, what can you do? Can't boot people off for being negative.

As for shouting down, agreed, people have every right to be positive too.
 

largelyworried

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I am a supporter of moving on from him, but if the correct manager isn't available then we might as well stick with him and run down his contract. All the managers I would want have been snapped up. Unfortunately, sticking with Solskjaer has already cost us the chance of getting Tuchel, and potentially Naglesmann.

We just have to hope that someone else appears or becomes available during this next season.
So Ole isn’t good enough, so what we should do is make his job harder? I really don’t grasp that argument at all.
 

RUCK4444

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Call the mood police ;)

If people's opinion is generating an overall negative mood then that's what it is, what can you do? Can't boot people off for being negative.

As for shouting down, agreed, people have every right to be positive too.
The bolded is the point I'm making. For example the post that started this exchange, rather than explaining with an ounce of reasoning their own concerns about the manager, the poster instead declared to the forum that we are consigning ourselves to fourth place finishes, as a matter of fact statement. Which is complete and utter horsh*t and this sort of stuff fills most pages of threads such as this one. Creating it's own narrative.

It's the same as me sitting here saying 'renew Ole's contract and I guarantee we win the league!' It's nonsense and a totally unbalanced view.
 

Eriku

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Call the mood police ;)

If people's opinion is generating an overall negative mood then that's what it is, what can you do? Can't boot people off for being negative.

As for shouting down, agreed, people have every right to be positive too.
Tbh I’d say people who’ve been on here for decades should feel totally free to lament what this place has become. I never thought I’d see one of our biggest heroes trash talked regularly.

More fool me, probably… the signs were there with the kind of abuse Giggs got in the early 2000s. Still sucks, though.
 

Oldyella

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The bolded is the point I'm making. For example the post that started this exchange, rather than explaining with an ounce of reasoning their own concerns about the manager, the poster instead declared to the forum that we are consigning ourselves to fourth place finishes, as a matter of fact statement. Which is complete and utter horsh*t and this sort of stuff fills most pages of threads such as this one. Creating it's own narrative.

It's the same as me sitting here saying 'renew Ole's contract and I guarantee we win the league!' It's nonsense and a totally unbalanced view.
There certainly seems to be a lack of nuance around Ole, and the forum in general, agreed. People talk in absolutes.
 

Oldyella

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Tbh I’d say people who’ve been on here for decades should feel totally free to lament what this place has become. I never thought I’d see one of our biggest heroes trash talked regularly.

More fool me, probably… the signs were there with the kind of abuse Giggs got in the early 2000s. Still sucks, though.
Fair. I can live with people questioning Oles ability, can't stand it when they call him a cnut etc.
 

MadMike

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I’m feeling fine, are you?

I take it your one of the many who now believe Chelsea and Tuchel are the best team in Europe, ignore the fact we finished comfortably above them and another favourite Liverpool just a matter of weeks ago, with the same manager.

What’s your plan? ‘Just sack him so I’m not embarrassed in front of my mates at the pub who call him a PE teacher’ ?

Who is waiting in the wings to sweep us effortlessly to champions of England? Who?

The who doesn’t matter, so long as Ole is sacked though eh.
Yeah, I'm not too bad thanks for asking.

I think Liverpool are comfortably a better team than us under Klopp, there's plenty of evidence of that from the previous 3 seasons. It took a terrible defensive injury crisis for them and a complete loss of their home form under empty stadiums, for us to finish above them. I don't see that lasting into next season for obvious reasons. If you see how Liverpool play under Klopp and how we play and yet you conclude that we're genuinely the better team under Ole and that last year wasn't circumstantial, may I suggest watching another sport... perhaps table tennis? I think we're about same level with Tuchel's Chelsea hence I said fight for 3rd or 4th.

What's with the strawmen arguments bud? Can't string some more coherent arguments together? Where did anyone mention that someone else would sweep us effortlessly as Champions? Not even Pep wins the title effortlessly. We merely point out the obvious, that under Ole this team doesn't look ready for a title challenge. It's a top 4 team; no more, no less. Also, I'm not really asking for him to be sacked, all my posts say that he should get next year but definitely not extend unless he shows remarkable improvement. So how'd figure I want him sacked? As for who Conte and Zidane are without a job, managers of more ability than Ole without a shadow of a doubt. Only mentioned hundreds of times.
 

AjaxCunian

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Call the mood police ;)

If people's opinion is generating an overall negative mood then that's what it is, what can you do? Can't boot people off for being negative.

As for shouting down, agreed, people have every right to be positive too.
It is rather the "positive ones" shouting the "negative" ones down if you ask me. People so much criticise Ole and they are being called terrible fans and the likes. Always being told that they ruin the form, etc. How often do you see that the ones always depending Ole are ruining the caf or the likes?
 

hubbuh

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I'm not convinced that Ole is going to win us the PL or CL (though I'd love it more than anything), but there's no one out there that I'd take at the moment. We need to do whatever City did with Pep and groom someone to take over in a year or two. As it is, I'd stick with Ole because he's done an okay job and there isn't a viable alternative.

I'd extend on the same terms for another year or two, just to provide a sense of stability and to make sure the media don't start attempting to create narratives.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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I personally wouldn't have cared about an extension if I know our club is ruthless enough to do the needful if Ole does not get us to the title or close to it even if he continues maintaining top 4 finish. But I dont think we are
 

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Tbh I’d say people who’ve been on here for decades should feel totally free to lament what this place has become. I never thought I’d see one of our biggest heroes trash talked regularly.

More fool me, probably… the signs were there with the kind of abuse Giggs got in the early 2000s. Still sucks, though.
This. I'd never expect a forum to be complete happiness and sunshine but likewise it should never be the entire opposite.

I suppose it's a bit like when you check the reviews people have left at restaurants or hotels etc, reading them you just know the vast majority are hugely negative people and are therefore more inclined to leave a review, whereas your more level headed person won't even think to leave a positive review. I'm sure there is a term for it.
 

Apokalips

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Why should he get a new contract? It's not like a sought after player who holds a value, no one is going to poach him and he would never refuse a new contract so the club holds all the cards. Fans complain that Jose gets a new contract early and now some complain that Ole isn't getting a new contract before his current one expires.

If Ole can't handle the pressure of getting results in his last year of contract then the only person that speaks volumes about is him. He will get a new contract if he performs and if not, then he won't and it is no big deal.
 

Oldyella

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This. I'd never expect a forum to be complete happiness and sunshine but likewise it should never be the entire opposite.

I suppose it's a bit like when you check the reviews people have left at restaurants or hotels etc, reading them you just know the vast majority are hugely negative people and are therefore more inclined to leave a review, whereas your more level headed person won't even think to leave a positive review. I'm sure there is a term for it.
When I was serving my time in customer services we were always told to expect a ratio of 10 to 1 on negative/positive feedback. Not sure where they plicked that figure from but it feels about right!
 

RUCK4444

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Yeah, I'm not too bad thanks for asking.

I think Liverpool are comfortably a better team than us under Klopp, there's plenty of evidence of that from the previous 3 seasons. It took a terrible defensive injury crisis for them and a complete loss of their home form under empty stadiums, for us to finish above them. I don't see that lasting into next season for obvious reasons. If you see how Liverpool play under Klopp and how we play and yet you conclude that we're genuinely the better team under Ole and that last year wasn't circumstantial, may I suggest watching another sport... perhaps table tennis? I think we're about same level with Tuchel's Chelsea hence I said fight for 3rd or 4th.

What's with the strawmen arguments bud? Can't string some more coherent arguments together? Where did anyone mention that someone else would sweep us effortlessly as Champions? Not even Pep wins the title effortlessly. We merely point out the obvious, that under Ole this team doesn't look ready for a title challenge. It's a top 4 team; no more, no less. Also, I'm not really asking for him to be sacked, all my posts say that he should get next year but definitely not extend unless he shows remarkable improvement. So how'd figure I want him sacked? As for who Conte and Zidane are without a job, managers of more ability than Ole without a shadow of a doubt. Only mentioned hundreds of times.
So you can make these excuses for all these clubs that are 'really much better than us but it was just down to these anomalies that we finished comfortably second' but we dare not make the same sort of excuses for our team and manager, right? But it's me with the strawman arguments? :lol: :lol:

Yeah I've played this back and forth before, got any other games?

Instead of playing armchair pundit with negative Nancy's who will only see it their way I'd rather drop any agenda and take a look at real, tangible things like; league position, points gained, goals scored, attacking intent, what were doing in the transfer market, how we are developing and introducing the youth, the structure of procurement and backroom staff that manage that being improved.

I wouldn't go near Zidane, he's done awesome in the CL but he's done it with perhaps the greatest CL side in living memory. Conte comes in does well but signs absolute dross, falls out with everybody and leaves you with said dross. The latter might yield a single trophy but personally IMO it would put us back 3 years at the same time once he invariably leaves. Can't see the board going near either of them to be honest.

I've said previously, IF there was a world class manager waiting in the wings then I'd consider it, until that point wanting Ole sacked is nothing but counterproductive at this point. Imo we are still in the process of rebuilding and are 3 top players away from finishing that rebuild. Should we have achieved more during that time? We could have and probably should have a couple of cup wins, does that give me sleepless nights? No, not at all, because the overall heading of the club is vastly better than it was when Ole took over.
 

RUCK4444

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When I was serving my time in customer services we were always told to expect a ratio of 10 to 1 on negative/positive feedback. Not sure where they plicked that figure from but it feels about right!
Yeah it's human nature, played out in all it's painfully negative glory here.

Thing is, when your angry about something, you want others to feel the same way as you, this is where it's important to keep a balance to things because unfortunately it's also human nature to be influenced by others and those who shout the loudest.
 

MadMike

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So you can make these excuses for all these clubs that are 'really much better than us but it was just down to these anomalies that we finished comfortably second' but we dare not make the same sort of excuses for our team and manager, right? But it's me with the strawman arguments? :lol: :lol:

Yeah I've played this back and forth before, got any other games?
Which are "all these clubs" you speak of? I'm making excuses for one club. A club that got 99 and 97 points the two previous years and won the EPL and CL, but just had a terrible defensive injury crisis this season. What's the excuse for our team and manager for bottling every competition in the meantime? Or for not having a clear playstyle? Can you conjure up one?

If you still can't see the difference between where the two clubs are at, just stick to the back and forth thingy.
 
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marukomu

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That bloke for Liverpool was a massive loss for them and definitely affected their season. What happened to us once Maguire got injured? We went to shit. Wasn't it something like W1 D1 L3?
 

RUCK4444

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Which are "all these clubs"? I'm making excuses for a club that got 99 and 97 points the two previous years and won the EPL and CL but had a terrible defensive injury crisis this season. What's the excuse for our team and manager for bottling every competition in the meantime?

If you still can't see the difference between where the two clubs are at, just stick to the back and forth thingy.
Well the awful start to the season being caused largely due to the lack of any pre-season, put our overall campaign off to a deficit from the off, both affecting largely our points gained and gap between us and City. Though we still finished comfortably ahead of Pool and Chelsea.

This terrible defensive injury crisis has been overplayed as well, their own players and manager eluded to this, they weren't conceding bucket loads thanks to an outstanding Fabinho. In fact they were struggling for goals more than anything during that time, this was picked up on and mentioned by many. But we can't question Klopp. They are also well ahead of us in their rebuild and have one of the very best managers in world football.

So you see, there's an argument for and against both points above, for each team, they are grey areas that almost certainly had an effect on each team but to what degree is hugely debatable. Which is why you have to look at far more than these grey-area topics. What posters like yourself tend to do though, is remove balance, stack every stat you can in opposition to our own manager and try to make it seem like the grass is always greener at every other team (whether it's Liverpool / Chelsea / Leicester - take your pick.)

I don't mean to single you out, you certainly aren't alone in your opinion and style of posting, I don't expect you to see it any different.
 

marukomu

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Well the awful start to the season being caused largely due to the lack of any pre-season, put our overall campaign off to a deficit from the off, both affecting largely our points gained and gap between us and City. Though we still finished comfortably ahead of Pool and Chelsea.

This terrible defensive injury crisis has been overplayed as well, their own players and manager eluded to this, they weren't conceding bucket loads thanks to an outstanding Fabinho. In fact they were struggling for goals more than anything during that time, this was picked up on and mentioned by many. But we can't question Klopp. They are also well ahead of us in their rebuild and have one of the very best managers in world football.

So you see, there's an argument for and against both points above, for each team, they are grey areas that almost certainly had an effect on each team but to what degree is hugely debatable. Which is why you have to look at far more than these grey-area topics. What posters like yourself tend to do though, is remove balance, stack every stat you can in opposition to our own manager and try to make it seem like the grass is always greener at every other team (whether it's Liverpool / Chelsea / Leicester - take your pick.)

I don't mean to single you out, you certainly aren't alone in your opinion and style of posting, I don't expect you to see it any different.
We were ahead of City at New Year. Liverpool were top.


1Liverpool159511732
2Everton15924729
3Leicester15915728
4Man United14833727
5Tottenham157531126
6Man City14752826
 

MadMike

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We were ahead of City at New Year. Liverpool were top.


1Liverpool159511732
2Everton15924729
3Leicester15915728
4Man United14833727
5Tottenham157531126
6Man City14752826
You'll ruin his great arguments with your facts, stop it.

That bloke for Liverpool was a massive loss for them and definitely affected their season. What happened to us once Maguire got injured? We went to shit. Wasn't it something like W1 D1 L3?
And not only that one bloke. They lost VVD, Matip and Gomez... their 3 most senior CBs. They had to play Fabinho at CB and then Henderson also got injured which meant their midfield went to shit as well.

But it's obviously all overplayed and we'd definitely still be finishing 2nd with McTominay/Matic and Tuanzebe at CB. Liverpool are for sure a 67-point team and not a 90-point team that had a bad, injury-plagued season. Anything so long as it supports the theory we're taking massive strides forward.
 
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BFernandes

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What's the rush?

I don't see the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid, Munich etc rushing to steal his signature for a cut-price anytime soon.

If he's given the opportunity to stay, he will. Wait until the start of next year and see how we're progressing.
 

Eriku

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This. I'd never expect a forum to be complete happiness and sunshine but likewise it should never be the entire opposite.

I suppose it's a bit like when you check the reviews people have left at restaurants or hotels etc, reading them you just know the vast majority are hugely negative people and are therefore more inclined to leave a review, whereas your more level headed person won't even think to leave a positive review. I'm sure there is a term for it.
Same as with everything these days, like politics. Two small extremes shouting, and a big middle ground feeling bypassed and disenfranchised.
 

big rons sovereign

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You'll ruin his great arguments with your facts, stop it.



And not only that one bloke. They lost VVD, Matip and Gomez... their 3 most senior CBs. They had to play Fabinho at CB and then Henderson also got injured which meant their midfield went to shit as well.

But it's obviously all overplayed and we'd definitely still be finishing 2nd with McTominay/Matic and Tuanzebe at CB. Liverpool are for sure a 67-point team and not a 90-point team that had a bad, injury-plagued season. Anything so long as it supports the theory we're taking massive strides forward.
Jesus Christ, I never thought I'd see the day that United 'fans' would be falling over themselves to defend Liverpool in order to shit on United's season.
Or are you a Liverpool fan? I can't tell.
 

MadMike

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Jesus Christ, I never thought I'd see the day that United 'fans' would be falling over themselves to defend Liverpool in order to shit on United's season.
Or are you a Liverpool fan? I can't tell.
Brilliant arguments, bravo.

That's it? Brilliant.
Imagine making ad-hominem troll posts and when someone tells you to feck off, you think you've somehow "won the argument" or "risen above it".

You'll be a full member in no time, I can tell.
 

MU655

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So Ole isn’t good enough, so what we should do is make his job harder? I really don’t grasp that argument at all.
His job won't be any harder. The players will act the same regardless of how long his contract is.

If Solskjaer can't take the pressure of only having one-year left on his contract, that is just another reason he is not right for the job.
 

big rons sovereign

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Brilliant arguments, bravo.



Imagine making ad-hominem troll posts and when someone tells you to feck off, you think you've somehow "won the argument" or "risen above it".

You'll be a full member in no time, I can tell.
Another long term member so far up his own arse that all he can think and post is shit.

Yer on here giving Liverpool the full tongue works, yet I'm the troll?

Give yer head a wobble pal.
 

largelyworried

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His job won't be any harder. The players will act the same regardless of how long his contract is.
When Fergie announced his retirement in 2001, our form went off a cliff. Fergie himself said the uncertainty of his future affected the players. We saw it too with Wenger, and with Pellegrini at City. So you cannot say that nothing will change when we've seen it happen at this club before.

If Solskjaer can't take the pressure of only having one-year left on his contract, that is just another reason he is not right for the job.
Its nothing to do with the pressure. I doubt it was down to pressure that SAF struggled to get his term to perform in 01-02. Its about how the players respond.

But even if we assume for a moment it is down to pressure on the manager - that's still a reason not to do it! Its a reason to sack him, sure, but you're still advocating something that makes things harder for the club to succeed. That is just totally illogical.