Do we extend Ole's contract?

[Amir]

Well the awful start to the season being caused largely due to the lack of any pre-season, put our overall campaign off to a deficit from the off, both affecting largely our points gained and gap between us and City.

City were in the same boat as us are they also played in Europe in August, and they had an even worse start to the season...

 

[Amir]

When Fergie announced his retirement in 2001, our form went off a cliff. Fergie himself said the uncertainty of his future affected the players. We saw it too with Wenger, and with Pellegrini at City. So you cannot say that nothing will change when we've seen it happen at this club before.

I know that myth exists and I think it's crap. We struggled because of the change in formation, trying to fit in Veron, playing Scholes in a new position and the trouble we had at the back (Stam out, Blanc in). Our results started picking up when we changed formation, a few weeks before Fergie announced he was staying.

Anyhow, there was no uncertainly about Fergie's future. He was retiring - until he was not.

Uncertainly about the future of the manager is part of life in football.

 

[Amir]

Jesus Christ, I never thought I'd see the day that United 'fans' would be falling over themselves to defend Liverpool in order to shit on United's season.

So a United fan can't find reasoning in Liverpool's struggle. Should we also say City are crap even though they won the league, just because they are City?

 

[largelyworried]

I know that myth exists and I think it's crap. We struggled because of the change in formation, trying to fit in Veron, playing Scholes in a new position and the trouble we had at the back (Stam out, Blanc in). Our results started picking up when we changed formation, a few weeks before Fergie announced he was staying.

Anyhow, there was no uncertainly about Fergie's future. He was retiring - until he was not.

Uncertainty about the future of the manager is part of life in football.

Fergie certainly thinks its true.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/sir-alex-ferguson-says-retirement-7965596

 

[big rons sovereign]

So a United fan can't find reasoning in Liverpool's struggle. Should we also say City are crap even though they won the league, just because they are City?

Not what's going on though is it. What's being claimed is United finished second only because Liverpool had some injuries.
It's utter Bollox and a lame excuse to shit on united and in turn the manager.

When pulled up I'm then met with homophobic insults and petty playground type 'banter'.

I guess that makes me a 'top red' eh.

And yeah, feck Liverpool.

 

[Amir]

Not what's going on though is it. What's being claimed is United finished second only because Liverpool had some injuries.
It's utter Bollox and a lame excuse to shit on united and in turn the manager.

I would say that the idea we made progress because we moved from 3rd to 2nd is a little simplistic. We wouldn't have done so if Liverpool hadn't dropped off massively. We should aspire to be a great side like Liverpool and City have been in recent years, but that's not what got us ahead in the league last season.

 

[Amir]

Fergie certainly thinks its true.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/sir-alex-ferguson-says-retirement-7965596

I know, and he's wrong, as we also have the facts to show we didn't need him to reverse his decision in order to kick into title chasing form.

Maybe it's easier than saying he fecked up with some of the football decision he made that season...

 

[largelyworried]

I know, and he's wrong, as we also have the facts to show we didn't need him to reverse his decision in order to kick into title chasing form.

Maybe it's easier than saying he fecked up with some of the football decision he made that season...

You’ll have to forgive me for trusting his opinion on the matter over yours.

 

[Grylte]

You’ll have to forgive me for trusting his opinion on the matter over yours.

But... he says we have facts!

 

[Skills]

Fergie certainly thinks its true.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/sir-alex-ferguson-says-retirement-7965596

Maybe that era of football's players are just far more mentally weak than the current gen? Current generation of players seem a lot more durable to managerial turbulence.

 

[hobbers]

So Ole isn’t good enough, so what we should do is make his job harder? I really don’t grasp that argument at all.

When he had no contract security before the permanent deal the players were immense. As soon as he got that 3 year contract everything went to shit.

Players dont care about their managers contracts, maybe with the exception of Pep or Klopp. It's common sense that a player on a 5 or 6 year contract is going to outstay the current manager 19 times out of 20.

 

[Amir]

You’ll have to forgive me for trusting his opinion on the matter over yours.

We all remember what he said about Phil Jones and all...

Like I said, we went through a big change on the pitch and struggled. Once we reverted back to the tried and tested, everything changed.

A few weeks later, Fergie decided to stay.

I wouldn't even know how Fergie would know his retirement affected the team.

 

[Amir]

Maybe that era of football's players are just far more mentally weak than the current gen? Current generation of players seem a lot more durable to managerial turbulence.

But Fergie himself said he noticed young players had become more fragile as the years went by and needed different treatment...

The likes of RVN and Veron joined us that summer knowing they'll only be managed by Fergie for a year. I just don't see it as having much of an affect on the likes of Scholes, Giggs or Keane, knowing that at the end of the season the manager will be retiring.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Not what's going on though is it. What's being claimed is United finished second only because Liverpool had some injuries.
It's utter Bollox and a lame excuse to shit on united and in turn the manager.

When pulled up I'm then met with homophobic insults and petty playground type 'banter'.

I guess that makes me a 'top red' eh.

And yeah, feck Liverpool.

In fairness on the argument re Liverpool. Their points finishes under Klopp have been: 60, 76, 75, 97, 99, 69....There's a clear bucking of the trend this season. It's not pro Liverpool to suggest losing your 1st and 2nd choice CB (and 3rd for a while) and one of your best CMs would have an effect. Imagine the chaos at United if Maguire, Lindelof and then Bailly were injured (although the latter wouldn't make a difference!)

United, ultimately, had a season that will be forgotten quickly; we didn't put up a fight in the league when there was a chance to (and it was a realistic chance when you look at where we dropped points), let ourselves down badly in the CL, domestic cups and let's not even mention the EL final. We did however consolidate a good league finish so we can use that as a positive - it is quite an inaccurate way of measuring anything but it's at least something. Next season we have to be better.

 

[largelyworried]

We all remember what he said about Phil Jones and all...

Like I said, we went through a big change on the pitch and struggled. Once we reverted back to the tried and tested, everything changed.

A few weeks later, Fergie decided to stay.

I wouldn't even know how Fergie would know his retirement affected the team.

This is a ridiculous statement. Fergie is one of the greatest man managers in football history, the idea he had no idea what motivated his dressing room is beyond absurd.

 

[el3mel]

When Fergie announced his retirement in 2001, our form went off a cliff. Fergie himself said the uncertainty of his future affected the players. We saw it too with Wenger, and with Pellegrini at City. So you cannot say that nothing will change when we've seen it happen at this club before.



Its nothing to do with the pressure. I doubt it was down to pressure that SAF struggled to get his term to perform in 01-02. Its about how the players respond.

But even if we assume for a moment it is down to pressure on the manager - that's still a reason not to do it! Its a reason to sack him, sure, but you're still advocating something that makes things harder for the club to succeed. That is just totally illogical.

This is a different era of football, and this is Sir Alex Ferguson and not Ole. Most players nowadays know that managers can get sacked within months of the start of any season if it goes to shit anyway. Having a contract or not won't change anything so why the rush ?

 

[::sonny::]

No reasons to extend the deal now

I would wait till 30/06/22

 

[McTerminator]

City were in the same boat as us are they also played in Europe in August, and they had an even worse start to the season...

The squad depth is hardly comparable though are they.

They had Riyad Mahrez as a third or fourth option off the bench at the start of the season. He’d be a nailed on starter for us.

 

[Amir]

This is a ridiculous statement. Fergie is one of the greatest man managers in football history, the idea he had no idea what motivated his dressing room is beyond absurd.

And yet, I'd say that identifying that our struggles were mental and that the issue was his impending retirement would require the ability to read minds.

The Veron/Scholes/Formation/Blanc seems somewhat more plausible.

 

[Amir]

The squad depth is hardly comparable though are they.

They had Riyad Mahrez as a third or fourth option off the bench at the start of the season. He’d be a nailed on starter for us.

Yeah, but that's not the argument... The claim is that part of the reason for the gap between us and City at the end of the season is the six points we dropped in the first three games. But if the summer had been normal - for everyone - that gap would have probably increased rather than decreased.

 

[RUCK4444]

City were in the same boat as us are they also played in Europe in August, and they had an even worse start to the season...

I’m talking about our start specifically, I wasn’t comparing us to City, if anything the comparison was against the teams the poster mentioned that finished below us.

Of course other teams had poor spells as well but just pointing out that we had a particularly rough hand given to us by the worst pre-season possible. Every point you drop affects where you end up and we had a poor start.

 

[Wilt]

Why the rush?

He‘s not going anywhere and no other club is interested in him.

See where we are in January and take it from there.

 

[marukomu]

That's it? Brilliant.

Yes.

 

[alexthelion]

In fairness on the argument re Liverpool. Their points finishes under Klopp have been: 60, 76, 75, 97, 99, 69....There's a clear bucking of the trend this season. It's not pro Liverpool to suggest losing your 1st and 2nd choice CB (and 3rd for a while) and one of your best CMs would have an effect. Imagine the chaos at United if Maguire, Lindelof and then Bailly were injured (although the latter wouldn't make a difference!)

United, ultimately, had a season that will be forgotten quickly; we didn't put up a fight in the league when there was a chance to (and it was a realistic chance when you look at where we dropped points), let ourselves down badly in the CL, domestic cups and let's not even mention the EL final. We did however consolidate a good league finish so we can use that as a positive - it is quite an inaccurate way of measuring anything but it's at least something. Next season we have to be better.

Or, the previuos two seasons have been outliers, the other four are very similar.

 

[Scholsey2004]

Yes, i would definitely. Im not convinced the counter argument is actually rational.

 

[The Cat]

Why the rush?

He‘s not going anywhere and no other club is interested in him.

See where we are in January and take it from there.

Bingo.

 

[Jibbs]

I know that myth exists and I think it's crap. We struggled because of the change in formation, trying to fit in Veron, playing Scholes in a new position and the trouble we had at the back (Stam out, Blanc in). Our results started picking up when we changed formation, a few weeks before Fergie announced he was staying.

Anyhow, there was no uncertainly about Fergie's future. He was retiring - until he was not.

Uncertainly about the future of the manager is part of life in football.

This... selling Stam was the biggest mistake, it used to be laughably sad watching Blanc struggle against average epl forwards. Add to that Barthez had a horrible season. United was pretty fecked in defense. I genuinely think had we not sold Stam and if we had VDS instead of Barthez we wouldn't have let Arsenal win in 2002.

 

[Widow]

We wouldn't have done so if Liverpool hadn't dropped off massively.

We would still be winning the league every year if we hadn't dropped off massively.

Forest would still be winning trophies in Europe if they hadn't dropped off massively.

Sheffield United would still be a Prem team if they hadn't dropped off massively.

Where does it stop!

And using your own words....

I would say that the idea we made progress because we moved from 3rd to 2nd is a little simplistic

Saying 'hadn't dropped off massively' is a very simplistic argument!

 

[tomaldinho1]

Or, the previuos two seasons have been outliers, the other four are very similar.

That would be completely illogical but ok.

 

[Ali Dia]

Pros: the players like him, he’s one of us, his big signings have been good, much less drama overall (not counting the fans!) lower wage bill, league position improving each season, has helped oversee improved footballing structures behind the scenes. Clear ethos with signings. Seems to be able to get along with the glazers without going crazy, which seems to be easier said than done.

Cons: plays favourites into the ground even if they’ve been horrible for weeks/months, very little minutes or incentive for squad players to improve, we seem mentally weak when it comes to crunch time, overly cautious with youth when Fergie would have thrown them in when we looked toothless or out of ideas, overly cautious in general, total lack of a plan apart from hit Rashford and Bruno over and over and no plan B for when that fails. Hopefully this improves as the squad quality improves, set pieces are horrible going both ways.

Mixed bag. I’m still Ole in cause I love him but he frustrates the hell out of me too.

 

[-Supreme-]

I thought his contract was already signed a while ago and was just waiting for the right moment to announce it? If true, I wonder why it’s not been announced yet.

 

[Jaxa]

Considering the season ahead is easily the most important one so far of his tenure , it will be his 3rd full season, he's had time to implement his ideas and will hopefully get the players he needs this summer, at least Sancho and a new CB ,

If we renew his contract now and we do not win any trophies this season and finish outside top 4 would there be a valid reason to keep him on ? Let him have 1 more season here to see what he does, if he wins a trophy and takes us on a good run in cup competitions then great he will be rewarded with a new contract in the end ,just like Tuchel, if not, we need a new manager.

There is no more room for complacency, if Ole flops this season and cannot win a trophy he needs the boot asap.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

I thought his contract was already signed a while ago and was just waiting for the right moment to announce it? If true, I wonder why it’s not been announced yet.

Probably would of been announced within a couple of days if we had of won the EL. Anybodys guess when it's going to be announced now but announced it will be.

 

[Amir]

There is no more room for complacency, if Ole flops this season and cannot win a trophy he needs the boot asap.

Trophy of what level? Would winning the League Cup or FA Cup really show we are going places? The judgement will have to be wider than that. Same goes if he wins nothing.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I want Solskjaer to stay forever because I love him

But the hard truth is that after that awful Cup Final loss, if he starts the season badly and we are (realistically) out the title race and unlikely to get the top 4 spots, then he's not going to see out 2021. Similar situation to Mourinho after he signed a new deal and was sacked months later.

If he gets the new contract, I want it to be because he's really going to be backed regardless. Otherwise they may as well leave it until January to make that decision whether they will stick or twist.

 

[Jaxa]

Trophy of what level? Would winning the League Cup or FA Cup really show we are going places? The judgement will have to be wider than that. Same goes if he wins nothing.

There is so many caveats to list tbh,

If we get knocked out of UCL for example early on and miss out on top 4 but win the FA cup then no, i don't think that's good enough,

But if we have a strong challenge for the league and get to the semi final of UCL while also winning FA Cup then Ole may have a case to stay another year, so many ifs and buts, the truth is we all know we desire more than an FA & League Cup but there needs to be clear sign of progression also,

If he gets Sancho and Varane/Torres along with a CDM I will be unhappy if we don't win the league or UCL, but if we challenge to the end and pick up other trophies I think that's still clear process and could justify a new contract.

 

[MadMike]

Trophy of what level? Would winning the League Cup or FA Cup really show we are going places? The judgement will have to be wider than that. Same goes if he wins nothing.

It all depends on who's the judge. It's currently the Glazers and my feeling is they will not fire a manager that delivers top 4, I don't think. Even if the club is not showing signs of progressing towards becoming title challengers.

For example, based on recent years, I'd say you need ~90 points to be within a shout of the title. We got 74 points this year and 66 the one before. If we bring two good signings in (say Sancho and a CD), then personally I'd expect at least 80 points next season as well as CL quarter finals. If we don't achieve that, then for me there's not enough progress there to warrant keeping Ole. Not for a club that wants to win things.

But if we get ~75 points and top 4, will the Glazers let go of him or renew? My money is on the latter and I would classify that as settling. It's their call though, not ours.

 

[Mickson]

Everything Fergie says isn't an absolute fact just because he thought something. He would probably say "oh fantastic player" if one asked about Anderson.

 

[OleTheGreat]

I personally think Ole has made immense progress along with this United squad judging by what had happened before his arrival. Ole hasn't had a smooth ride since winning on the trot when he initially got here. I agree, the football hasn't been great all the time but I think it will improve as he gets the right play in the right positions. I think the previous managers all had to make do with out squad because none of our players are actually played in their strong positions on the pitch. Let's take the current squad into consideration, Rashford- I know he's been great since his introduction as a striker but he was supposed to be played as a number 10 but he's turned into an inside-left forward now. Still not a proper winger in my opinion. Greenwood is not a right sided play but he has to be played there because we have no specialist on the right. Mata is a number 10 too but was played on the right. Martial is a striker but was often played on the left and now he's just lost his trait. He's not a striker in my opinion and that's evident. Much like Jesus for City. Fred and Mctominay as not defensive midfielder but have played there more often than not. Our midfield has been the weakest area since SAF left because every time we counter, the ball moves quickly to the forwards and they find a way to manipulate defenses but when the game is slowed down and we need to find a way to go forward, the vulnerability in our midfield kicks in.

Ole has finally identified that we need a CDM but I still don't think he understands the importance of one. Bringing in players like Sancho, Kane or Haaland is definitely not the solution to our problems. We need a defensive midfielder like Rice, Camavinga or such to really tighten up the defense and connect the defense with the forwards. We need a player through whom every attack of ours should build and he must become the pivotal point for the change in direction. I hope we at least find a way to sign a player like Neves, who will still help in transition. If Ole or the board fail to sign a CDM and instead buy players like Sancho, Varane, Trippier and think this is a successful window, that would be a mistake and they will learn that very soon when the new season commences. I'd wait until the window shuts to make this decision but I think Ole will do well considering what he has had in the past in terms of quality of the squad.

 

[Amir]

There is so many caveats to list tbh,

If we get knocked out of UCL for example early on and miss out on top 4 but win the FA cup then no, i don't think that's good enough,

But if we have a strong challenge for the league and get to the semi final of UCL while also winning FA Cup then Ole may have a case to stay another year, so many ifs and buts, the truth is we all know we desire more than an FA & League Cup but there needs to be clear sign of progression also,

Overall, more than anything, we'll just how to see how it goes and judge it then. I don't think we can set clear parameters. We can decide a trophy is a must, get to a final, play brilliantly and lose like against Arsenal in 2006. It would be hard to say we should let him go based on that.