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Do you want Ronaldo to stay or to leave?
- Thread starter Red the Bear
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Heart, stay. Head, leave.
Who said it Wasn't. If you are just looking for someone to argue with, you picked the wrong one. Good luck.
I dont want him to stay as our Striker because he isn't one. Give him a free role but we should've some one who can hold the ball and pass. For e.g player like Toney - extremely hardworking, physically huge, can hold off defenders, decent on ball - should be paired with him.
But then we will have to sacrifice other areas, which is still okay to take Ronaldo for one more year. You don't get to have the GOAT in your team always.
But then we will have to sacrifice other areas, which is still okay to take Ronaldo for one more year. You don't get to have the GOAT in your team always.
Clearly if we can keep him we should. He’s not the problem and while he’s not the player he once was he can still be great in a good team.
So what if ETH doesn't want him?
It's about fit and where he wants to implement his system. If a manager wants to start implementing his style from the goalkeeper or the forward positions you can't tell him "but Fred his worse. Bin him first".
Joe Hart wasn't the worst player at City when Pep got there. Many possession or philosophy managers tend to give their strikers important linkup roles and turn their backs on pure goalscoring strikers.
If you havent already now will be a good time to start bracing for the possibility ETH might want to go in a different direction. If ETH wanted to be told who must start he could have gone to PSG.
It's about fit and where he wants to implement his system. If a manager wants to start implementing his style from the goalkeeper or the forward positions you can't tell him "but Fred his worse. Bin him first".
Joe Hart wasn't the worst player at City when Pep got there. Many possession or philosophy managers tend to give their strikers important linkup roles and turn their backs on pure goalscoring strikers.
If you havent already now will be a good time to start bracing for the possibility ETH might want to go in a different direction. If ETH wanted to be told who must start he could have gone to PSG.
I’d like him to stay. Overall he’s had a positive effect, cares about the club and loathes the dreadful mediocrity afflicting the team atm.
I also think he’d make a good youth team coach and mentor if he decides to stay.
I also think he’d make a good youth team coach and mentor if he decides to stay.
Obviously if the new coach wants to get rid of him first then so be it. I have no issues with that. These things should be left to the manager. He is the one who calls the shots and he falls or stands on his decisions.
What we really need in the squad are professional players to show the way. Ronaldo is as professional as they come.
The only issue with Ronaldo going forward is that if we spend big money on a new CF (as seems likely) then that CF should be starting ahead of Ronaldo, including in the biggest games.
If Ronaldo was happy to accept that, happy days. We get him as a squad player to use against fodder like Norwich and he will get us plenty of goals next year I'm sure. That would be ideal.
But the lingering suspicion is that he still thinks he should be starting most and the biggest games next season, which he shouldn't be. Obviously he had to this season due to our lack of options but remedying that appears to be one of our priorities this summer by all accounts.
And assuming that is indeed the case, we all know that an unhappy Ronaldo being dropped to the bench would be a constant negative story throughout next season. Because he is an extremely petulant and demonstrative person.
So I'm not sure where that logic falls down for the people who want him to stay. Do they think we're not going to buy a CF, despite all the reports to the contrary and Rangnick saying that's something the club was obviously going to have to do? Do they expect a 38 year old Ronaldo to for some reason still be first choice ahead of that new big money signing? Do they think we'll switch to a two striker formation to try and accomodate Ronaldo alongside our new first choice CF? Or do they think he'll actually be happy to sit out the biggest games without complaint? Because I see issues with all those ideas.
If Ronaldo was happy to accept that, happy days. We get him as a squad player to use against fodder like Norwich and he will get us plenty of goals next year I'm sure. That would be ideal.
But the lingering suspicion is that he still thinks he should be starting most and the biggest games next season, which he shouldn't be. Obviously he had to this season due to our lack of options but remedying that appears to be one of our priorities this summer by all accounts.
And assuming that is indeed the case, we all know that an unhappy Ronaldo being dropped to the bench would be a constant negative story throughout next season. Because he is an extremely petulant and demonstrative person.
So I'm not sure where that logic falls down for the people who want him to stay. Do they think we're not going to buy a CF, despite all the reports to the contrary and Rangnick saying that's something the club was obviously going to have to do? Do they expect a 38 year old Ronaldo to for some reason still be first choice ahead of that new big money signing? Do they think we'll switch to a two striker formation to try and accomodate Ronaldo alongside our new first choice CF? Or do they think he'll actually be happy to sit out the biggest games without complaint? Because I see issues with all those ideas.
Depends entirely on transfer plans but I’d suggest one less fire to fight with Ronaldo as the stopgap might be preferable and not exactly the worst situation.
Honestly, if Ten Hag can't work with the team we have, we should get someone else. Stop this idea of getting manager who don't suit.
I think I read that we haven't signed a striker under 30 since Van Persie, and even that was just under.
So do you really see us going big for a striker?
I think the massive pressing need is someone remotely defensive and mobile in centre mid first. Plus integrating a new system of playing, which could mean anyone in the whole lineup needs replacing asap.
This season we'll have lost two of our CF options and loaned out a third, every single report on on our upcoming transfer window has said that a CF is a top priority alongside a midfielder and this was Rangnick's response when asked if we needed to sign a new CF this summer:
Based on all that, I would be amazed if we don't sign a CF this summer.
Doesn't this new player have to be better than Ronaldo to start ahead of him?
Yes. And if we're spending big money on a CF, they should be better than this 37 year old poacher version of Ronaldo who offers little in general play. If we're signing a CF worse than him then we really have problems, because that would be spending money to go backwards.
It might depend on who he's being dropped for.
If he feels an inferior player is being chosen ahead of him, you'll likely get a strop.
Bit more difficult to be a drama queen if he's backup to a top striker.
My head says stay ….my phone says leave
Who the bloody hell can replace his goals. There’s no one available that can do it. Plus putting 100m on a striker when there’s other positions desperately in need of rebuild even more.
This team isn't very good, regardless of the managerial situation there will have to be big changes over the next couple of years. Plus he's a 37 year old striker taking up a huge chunk of the wage bill, no manager is going to come in and build around him at this stage but for Ten Hag I think it's a particular issue (a pragmatist like Ancelotti or Zidane might find a way to make it work, I suspect Pochettino would really want him gone too).
If he was someone who was going to be happy being part of the group then that would be fine but we saw the massive media reaction when Solskjaer left him out against Everton, we saw how he reacted to being subbed off by Rangnick at Brentford, I mean he threw a massive strop with Ferguson after being subbed off at 2-0 up in a Manchester derby because his focus was to get the Golden Boot (i.e. the individual glory) while Ferguson was prioritising upcoming games as were going for multiple trophies. Why would a new manager, in by far his biggest job to date, want to deal with that political issue for a player who doesn't even fit his game plan?
You must be really pleased with the players on the team who don’t mind whether they play or not, win or lose or not, so long as they get paid. At least they don’t create a scene.
" This team isn't very good, regardless of the managerial situation there will have to be big changes over the next couple of years." I can understand how you could have missed that line, it was tucked in there as literally the first thing I said.
In the 20/21 PL we averaged 1.93 goals per match, this year we average 1.63.
A decent forward in a well drilled team could easily match his output, plus more players would contribute to scoring themselves. I don't understand why so many people are struggling to wrap their head around the concept of bringing in a manager who will (hopefully) improve the team and therefore mean we're not reliant on an individual.
Yes well last season Rashford wasn't completely shit and Greenwood was the team too. Stats don't say shit.
If we have got the right manager, the players who suit will follow in a few transfer windows. Trying to get a manager based on our current players rather than our future direction is not a good plan. He probably can work with these players if he doesn't have the choice, but why should he have to and how far would that get us. Get him the key players he needs so we can take a step closer to HIS team. Klopp / Guardiola all brought in players in order to move forward. Let's not expect the manager to come in and polish these turds.
I know...let's get rid of one of our most consistent performers, who saved our sorry asses many times this season, is our top scorer and third in the league overall.
Definitely stay. Besides his tremendous skills and athleticism, there is another important point. CR's attitude to training and games should be a guideline for all United's players, starting from Garancho and ending with Rashford.
However, we still need a good striker giving that Cavani is leaving Old Trafford in summer
However, we still need a good striker giving that Cavani is leaving Old Trafford in summer
It also has to do with the type of striker Ronaldo currently is.
He's a volume striker, consistently being among the top 1% of strikers in terms of shots and shots on target across multiple years. This season for example he's is fifth in Europe for shots per 90, just behind Lewandowski, Dyabala, Mbappe, and Salah. Which as the quality of that company suggests, is no bad thing.
But among those five Ronaldo also provides the least for his teammates, being just inside the top 50% of forwards in Europe for xA. And in his previous two seasons he was significantly lower again.
In other words Ronaldo is a striker who monopolises his team's shooting opportunities while creating little for those around him. And with a team only having so many possessions per game that can end with a shot, that effectively means Ronaldo cannibalises some of his teammates' shooting opportunities to get goals.
Which isn't a criticism, if he's providing the team with enough goals nobody complains. But it does mean that when we're talking about removing Ronaldo's goals from the team you also have to factor in the goals other players would score were he not monopolising the chances already being created, as well as the additional chances a different player in his place would create. Because the aim is for the team to score as many goals as possible, not for our main striker to.
We can see another illustration of that here:
On face value, that's fine, Ronaldo with the third most goals in the league. The spread of goals is poor but we'll accept that as a non-issue.
I know...let's get rid of one of our most consistent performers, who saved our sorry asses many times this season, is our top scorer and third in the league overall.
But the downside to relying on current-iteration Ronaldo for those goal returns becomes clearer when you look at what those other players provide for their teammates in addition to the goals they score themselves. In terms of the amount of assists Ronaldo is expected to create per 90 he ranks ninth from that 10, just ahead of the mighty Emmanuel Dennis. And the best players on that list are nearly three times as likely to create a goal for their teammates as Ronaldo is. That's the trade-off relying on a 37 year old poacher for your goals immediately comes with. The team gets those goals but little else.
None of which is an argument for selling Ronaldo. It's an argument from replacing him in the starting eleven with a new centre-forward who provides more for the team overall, which by all accounts we're looking to do. The argument for selling him is based on how positive an influence you think Ronaldo will then be if (as should happen) he's no longer first choice and is benched for the biggest games.
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City are doing really badly with their top scorer as 11 goals… almost like if you have a functional all-round team you will still score goals, they will just spread around and make no difference on the overall output and team performance. Same thing happened with Ibrahimovic, he arrives and mysteriously nobody else can score and then not long after he leaves the team scores more after him.
I know...let's get rid of one of our most consistent performers, who saved our sorry asses many times this season, is our top scorer and third in the league overall.
He seems to be the only true player at the club who hates losing. He has a proper world class professional winners mentailly and it will rub off on the likes of Elanga who look upto him.
He needs to stay & be our captain and unite the team. Whilst hes still banging in goals every week and noone else are, we need to build a team around him or buy a striker who can match his goal output.
He needs to stay & be our captain and unite the team. Whilst hes still banging in goals every week and noone else are, we need to build a team around him or buy a striker who can match his goal output.
Stay. Cavani looks certain to leave. And not sure what to expect from Rashford next season.
100% this. I have no idea why everyone woke up one morning and decided Ronaldo was a good fit as a lone centre forward. Literally never been that sort of player in his career.
Ronaldo would be the main beneficiary of us signing a proper centre forward, provided he stays on.
I'm not sure Ivan Toney would be the guy to bring in, but I'd agree that we need that type of player. The great thing about having Ronaldo is that you don't need your #9 to be a great goalscorer, and strikers who don't score loads are cheaper than ones that do.
I'm not sure they did. I think they decided that playing him as a CF was the best way to accomodate his goals without his weaknesses in general play being a bigger downside.
Because if you play him out wide, change to a two striker formation to help him or give him a free role you're causing other problems for the team instead.
Do I want our best player (by a considerable distance) to stay or leave…
Is this a trick question?
Is this a trick question?
The trouble there is that he isn't actually very good at doing centre forward things, which makes his and the teams general play suffer. I'm not sure what would be wrong with a 2 striker formation, and we've covered for wide players who don't track back successfully before.
Chucking Ronaldo up front on his own just doesn't seem sensible in any way. I mean we don't have the options to do anything different this season, but I'm hoping next season we see him used more effectively and with greater benefit of the team.
Yep. Goalscoring vacuums. They’ll average the most shots per 90. There’s only one football so if it’s constantly fed through them, that’s the end result.
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