Does RM get the credit it deserves over the past 10 years?

[berbasloth4]

They have the credit and rightly so. Champions league extremely prestigious but they are in a basically a two team league were money is split majorly uneven.

I think they only four leagues in the last decade Barca 5 and atletico 1??

champions league might be very prestigious but it is a cup competition and with draws and luck etc is probably easier to win than a league. Maybe that takes shine off

 

[The Boy]

Presumed this was about Jacob Rees-Mogg, who deserves no credit for anything

 

[weetee]

Their CL runs are not followed up domestically by any means otherwise I think they would be credited much more.

Winning the CL is also seen as the toughest competition because a lot of luck and chance is inevitable involved - that‘s why I agree with those saying winning the domestic league is the most honest competition to win. And RM did rather poorly (for their respective potential) in that department. I may be wrong but I think they didn‘t win the domestic cup as well that often in recent years.

 

[GatoLoco]

Personally I would never call the Negreira League honest these days.

 

[Hammondo]

Nah they're kind of thrown in the same bus as Sir Alex's United of winning while supposedly not revolutionizing football like people are trying to claim Pep is doing with City after he did it with Barca. Spoilers rather than revolutionaries... Just spoilers who dominate year after year.

I don't see SAF not getting the credit he deserves anywhere tbh.

 

[giorno]

Their CL runs are not followed up domestically by any means otherwise I think they would be credited much more.

we won the CL in 13/14. We finished 3rd with 87 points, after a combination of injuries, fatigue, and the unlikelihood of catching Atletico Madrid made us punt on the last 2 games to prepare for the CL final - against Atletico Madrid. Who won the league with 90 points - we lost one of the two games we punted. Barcelona finished 2nd with 87 points too.
in 15/16, we started the season with Malitez, he managed a measly 36 points in 18 games. Then Zidane took over and we dropped a grand total of 7 points out of 60 the rest of the way. We finished 2nd on 90 points - Barcelona won with 91
In 16/17 we won the league
In 21/22 we won the league
The only bad league season ending in CL success was 17/18 when Cristiano and Benzema somehow managed to combine for 5 or 6 goals in the first 19 games of the season....

Personally I would never call the Negreira League honest these days.

And also this

 

[MVBDX]

After Negreira/Barca scandal, those lost titles by very narrow margins (1, 2 or 3 points) can be counted as wins. That's like 3-4 more titles.

And we won a few EPLs and BuLis too.

 

[altodevil]

Barely ever win their own league.

 

[weetee]

...

All true, but from a neutral and let's call it pedestrian (=my) perspective: you won more CLs than league titles in the last ten years while also the domestic competitors are not seen as elite anymore for quite some time. Barca on a heavy decline etc. Also the last Spanish cup you won is about 10 years ago. Not saying that is abysmal or anything, far from it of course, but for me that never screamed "best team in the history of this sports" because you won the CL that often (exaggerated point but you know what I mean).

I also don't think that RM get little credit. If anything those CL wins made a huge shift in their general reception (here in Germany at least imho). Before they were always regarded as elite but never really liked by many but since those CLs they were seen far more positive and likable - for whatever reason.

 

[Skills]

Real Madrid is our greatest ally in European football. They've stopped Liverpool twice and we're relying on them to stop Man City this season.

Shame we could never repay the favour against Barcelona for them.

 

[altodevil]

Literally have one more league title than we do this century. Which is just embarrassing given the state we've been in for half of it.

 

[FreckBarca]

Personally I would never call the Negreira League honest these days.

Any Spanish team other than Barca that won a national title during the Negreira years deserves a lot of credit.

 

[Reyoji-Utd]

I think they actually praise more than they could get. With many different circumstances in the last 10 years, they have won 5 CL but it really have a lot to do with other clubs being not on top.

They always the favorites because their league is a two teams league and the reat couldnt muster any competition to them but just do more than enough not like the French League.

People may think its not the reason but i still think the teams in England are hard to win the CL because they do pay more attention and fight hard to win the match week in week out. Teams here cant really have much rest physically or mentally for the CL unlike their counterparts. Also, there are some bias from the official in the continent (even just a bit of leeway here or there for the continental teams) can tip the match and we seen them alot.

 

[giorno]

All true, but from a neutral and let's call it pedestrian (=my) perspective: you won more CLs than league titles in the last ten years while also the domestic competitors are not seen as elite anymore for quite some time. Barca on a heavy decline etc.

We won 1 of those 5 CLs with "weak" domestic competitors, last season. Until 16/17 we were going up against 2 of the 4/5 best teams in the world(including us). And in 17/18(and 18/19) Barcelona were still very much an elite side, a top 4-5 side in the world at worst

 

[GinobiliTheGOAT]

Personally I would never call the Negreira League honest these days.

this looks way more fishy:


but Every Madrid fan will accept that 2017 title without flinching ironically

 

[Righteous Steps]

They should get more credit but i think its probably down to the teams they've had stylistically compared to he last great Spanish team which was Barcelona. A lot of the times Madrid rely on maturity experience and the brilliant moments of a few players to get them through, they don't dominate teams in terms of pressing and possession like other great Spanish teams in the past or even Pep managed teams like City, in modern era where possession seems to be everything this can lead to people not rating them as high as they should.

 

[abundance]

Around 2011/12, before ‘La decima’ anyway, it was United and Madrid who were the biggest around and you could argue the toss one way or the other. In fact when Ronaldo left United the first time, a few actually said that he’s leaving the better club.

mmm...
no I think you'd really struggle to find people that viewed it that way around that time outside of UK.

At least, in continental Europe, South America, Middle East... I dunno about East Asia.

 

[giorno]

this looks way more fishy:


but Every Madrid fan will accept that 2017 title without flinching ironically

Why shouldn't we? Refs make mistakes. We aren't the ones caught paying the vice-president of the ref's committee

 

[GinobiliTheGOAT]

Why shouldn't we? Refs make mistakes. We aren't the ones caught paying the vice-president of the ref's committee

If Barca were paying them there wouldn’t be THAT many mistakes. This case will blow over, Barca were the better team the years they won much like Madrid were the years they won la liga. This applies to both teams for the most part.

 

[antohan]

I think the fact it was Real Madrid doing it kinda left people inured to it, like it isn't some unthinkable achievement for Real Madrid to pull off, because it's Real Madrid afterall

This

 

[Offside]

Real Madrid in Europe are what Man United were for years in the PL. Everyone is seething with jealousy at their dominance so nobody predicts they’ll win it even though they’re always there. Then when they do people just blank it from their mind.

Watch the next team to even get to back to back CL finals people will be talking about as the best team in football history completely ignoring the Real team that won it 3 years on the trot and 5 in 10 years or whatever crazy record they have now.

 

[GinobiliTheGOAT]

Real Madrid in Europe are what Man United were for years in the PL. Everyone is seething with jealousy at their dominance so nobody predicts they’ll win it even though they’re always there. Then when they do people just blank it from their mind.

Watch the next team to even get to back to back CL finals people will be talking about as the best team in football history completely ignoring the Real team that won it 3 years on the trot and 5 in 10 years or whatever crazy record they have now.

Yes, but if Madrid weren’t even winning the domestic league that often, as incredible as their CL run was/is, they will always be a peg below the GOAT team debate.

 

[giorno]

If Barca were paying them

There is no IF. Barcelona were paying Negreira. This is established fact. Match fixing remains to be seen

 

[FreckBarca]

Yes, but if Madrid weren’t even winning the domestic league that often, as incredible as their CL run was/is, they will always be a peg below the GOAT team debate.

Not winning the league that often is not a bad accomplishment at all given the fact that Barca spent all those years paying Negreira.

 

[GinobiliTheGOAT]

Not winning the league that often is not a bad accomplishment at all given the fact that Barca spent all those years paying Negreira.

Not when things like this were going on, no way:

There is no IF. Barcelona were paying Negreira. This is established fact. Match fixing remains to be seen

This will be a big nothing burger, "ref mistakes" wouldn't happen if match fixing was happening. And it would take a lot more than 7M over 20 years for that.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

They've just won three titles in a decade in a two-team league but have done well in a cup tournament, helped by some incredible luck. If anything they're overrated.

Gotta love people referring to the fecking UCL as just some "cup tournament"

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

And to answer the OP: No I don't think so. Real isn't really romantcized by the broader football world like Barca is. They didn't use some hipster revolutionary tactic to dominate teams. And people sort of seemed to just acknowledge them winning the UCL that much without actually taking a step back and realizing how unbelievably elite the squad building has been from Perez. For a guy that gets memed more about his "Galacticos" project from 15 years ago, he's been the best in the world (or right there with City) in building that Madrid team and making sure that there are always players coming through the pipeline to replace the older heads.

I always admire Madrid because of how adaptable their style is. They are the "anti system" football team which is why they are so difficult to beat in the CL, because they can go out and dominate possession and press a team just as easily as they can sit deep and destroy you on the counter depending on which suits them for the specific match. That and they always have extremely high footballing IQ throughout the squad that they don't need to be told exact positions to take up by managers. They feel it out in a very old school way that's refreshing after the recent Pep style of set structures and rigid instructions has become so popular everywhere else.

 

[jm99]

I think if they'd won the league more they'd get more credit. It's hard to comprehend just how strong those real and Barca teams were, look at casemiro, probably the 5th or 6th best player in that Madrid team at its peak and he's come here and is one of the top 10 players in this league.

Tbf, if anything comes of this Barca refereeing scandal, they should get more credit, they lost a few leagues by a point or two, so if its conclusively proven that the team they lost to were paying the refs, it's hard to think it didn't make a difference

 

[GatoLoco]

I'm not really sure if they do or not but the paradox for me is that if they don't, that's actually a very good thing.

 

[meamth]

Real Madrid is our greatest ally in European football. They've stopped Liverpool twice and we're relying on them to stop Man City this season.

Shame we could never repay the favour against Barcelona for them.

We eliminated Barca for a certain trophy. That's good enough.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

champions league might be very prestigious but it is a cup competition and with draws and luck etc is probably easier to win than a league.

The numbers don't back this. With the exception of Liverpool in 2005, every CL winning club over the last 20 years or so was a regular league winner in their country in the years around the title win: Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Manchester United, Chelsea, Inter Milan, AC Milan, Juventus, Porto, Dortmund. The same is true of the losing finalists, with the exception of Liverpool (2007), Spurs (2019), Leverkusen (2002).

Also, most people can point to many league champions that won without being particularly good but had no real competition. This almost never happens in the Champions League.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

If Barca were paying them there wouldn’t be THAT many mistakes

This is like saying a politician can't have done voting fraud because they lost the election.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Arguments that Real Madrid can get "lucky" because the CL is a cup competition are incredibly inane. We're talking about 5 titles in 8 years, that's 65 games, almost twice as many as a league title.

 

[Peelhead]

Is anybody claiming Guardiola is revolutionizing anything with City?

Btw yes, i don't think we got the credit we deserved for what we've done - the excuse of not winning the league enough times. Winning 5 CL titles in 9 seasons is a level of domination over the biggest competition in club football not seen since Di Stefano's Madrid side, and I don't people appreciate quite how special and rare and incredible a feat that is. I mean, Zidane's Madrid was the first side to win it back-to-back since Sacchi's milan all the way back into the middle ages of 1990, and the first to win 3 in a row since Bayern in prehistory. I think the fact it was Real Madrid doing it kinda left people inured to it, like it isn't some unthinkable achievement for Real Madrid to pull off, because it's Real Madrid afterall

As for pundits talking about the best PL sides being favourites over the last 5-6 years, that's kinda fair. Maybe Bayern and PSG were underestimated a bit in a couple seasons, but other than that yeah, I mean, it was totally fair to see City as favourites in 17/18 and 18/19, Liverpool in 19/20(at least until Flick took over), City again in 20/21 and 21/22. The majority of the time they actually were the actual best sides in the competition...

I'm with you on that. Not a fan of them or anything but they are globally recognised but the magnitude of achievement at that high a quality is sometimes underestimated.

 

[Blackwidow]

I guess the have the reputation they earned - being the best in international cup competitions!

 

[Liver_bird]

Even when they’re not the best side in the competition they’re always among the top 3 at the very least. Their mentality in this comp alone puts them there. Without a doubt the best club side in the world. There have been better sides over a period of a few years but not one of them win as consistently as they do.

 

[Mr.Fantastic]

Their CL runs are not followed up domestically by any means otherwise I think they would be credited much more.

Winning the CL is also seen as the toughest competition because a lot of luck and chance is inevitable involved - that‘s why I agree with those saying winning the domestic league is the most honest competition to win. And RM did rather poorly (for their respective potential) in that department. I may be wrong but I think they didn‘t win the domestic cup as well that often in recent years.

Domestic wise is completely irrelevant, especially now with "Negreira gerrymandering "

As for CL. CL is high variance competition, not surprising considering you are competing against elite. You reduce variance with quality. Now, what does it tell you about RM when the latter has completely swept the toughest competition for more than a decade? And still doing it, despite substantial decline. As result, how the frack can domestic title be "the most honest one" ( whatever that means )?

Even when they’re not the best side in the competition they’re always among the top 3 at the very least. Their mentality in this comp alone puts them there. Without a doubt the best club side in the world. There have been better sides over a period of a few years but not one of them win as consistently as they do.

It is fascinating to me, that people reduce the most crucial component of success there is. If we take example of players. What is the single most important trait / ability for a player? Most would say technique, probably. Nah. Character. Easily. The same applies to teams. It is character or mentality as you say. Which further on builds club culture. Elite players, elite mentality. That is why Madrid is "the one above all".

 

[Mr.Fantastic]

I'm with you on that. Not a fan of them or anything but they are globally recognised but the magnitude of achievement at that high a quality is sometimes underestimated.

Wise people give credit. Weak individuals produce claims such as:" The point is not exclusively about success or how many you won, it’s the impact of that team in terms of how they play & influence others. I don’t think people will say that about that Real Madrid team. "

 

[GinobiliTheGOAT]

There is no IF. Barcelona were paying Negreira. This is established fact. Match fixing remains to be seen

This will be a big nothing burger, "ref mistakes" wouldn't happen if match fixing was happening. And it would take a lot more than 7M over 20 years for that.

I think if they'd won the league more they'd get more credit. It's hard to comprehend just how strong those real and Barca teams were, look at casemiro, probably the 5th or 6th best player in that Madrid team at its peak and he's come here and is one of the top 10 players in this league.

Tbf, if anything comes of this Barca refereeing scandal, they should get more credit, they lost a few leagues by a point or two, so if its conclusively proven that the team they lost to were paying the refs, it's hard to think it didn't make a difference

If you were to be level headed about it, Barca has arguments going the other way as well:


Those are beyond insane 'mistakes'.

 

[GinobiliTheGOAT]

Domestic wise is completely irrelevant, especially now with "Negreira gerrymandering "

As for CL. CL is high variance competition, not surprising considering you are competing against elite. You reduce variance with quality. Now, what does it tell you about RM when the latter has completely swept the toughest competition for more than a decade? And still doing it, despite substantial decline. As result, how the frack can domestic title be "the most honest one" ( whatever that means )?




It is fascinating to me, that people reduce the most crucial component of success there is. If we take example of players. What is the single most important trait / ability for a player? Most would say technique, probably. Nah. Character. Easily. The same applies to teams. It is character or mentality as you say. Which further on builds club culture. Elite players, elite mentality. That is why Madrid is "the one above all".

38 weeks is a better sign of quality than a knockout tournament. Doesn't mean Real Madrid weren't a great team, they obviously were, but there is a reason Zidane said La Liga is harder than CL. It's 38 weeks of it.