Dominoes Draft SF2 - Pat_Mustard vs Lord SInister

[Indnyc]

According to the formation Gerets indeed an attacking wingback who starts deep but is forming a partnership with Messi.
Brehme cannot risk giving full concentration to Messi to support Vidic as he has to mind Greets who will always be looking to exploit the space left by Brehme, always giving outlet to Messi for exchanges and minding Messi would mean Vida will be one v one, and peak Messiah vs peak Vida is a no brainer. Asides I have man by man advantage in the midfield leaving Maradona free.
Sammer and Vieira if they try to mind Maradona they will leave Keane and Tigana free and give them free space , while also Isolating Kopa who will still have the wall Beckenbauer in front of him.

If Gerets is indeed playing an attacking role supporting Messi then it does play into the opposition tactics.

Believe it is exactly what @Pat_Mustard wants, I.e. defending deep and having his two attackers isolating your two central defenders to score on the counter.

I get that Messi will cause trouble but besides Vidic and Brehme you also have Schulz defending deep so it is an incredibly tight defense as well. Not to mention Kahn as a goal keeper has proven at the 2002 World Cup that he can single handidly keep his team in the game

Again, I don’t doubt that your team is brilliant but there the opposition has built a team to counter your strengths

 

[Pat_Mustard]

If Gerets is indeed playing an attacking role supporting Messi then it does play into the opposition tactics.

Believe it is exactly what @Pat_Mustard wants, I.e. defending deep and having his two attackers isolating your two central defenders to score on the counter.

I get that Messi will cause trouble but besides Vidic and Brehme you also have Schulz defending deep so it is an incredibly tight defense as well. Not to mention Kahn as a goal keeper has proven at the 2002 World Cup that he can single handidly keep his team in the game

Again, I don’t doubt that your team is brilliant but there the opposition has built a team to counter your strengths

Aye, without a doubt that's my best route to goal here.

 

[Lord SInister]

If Gerets is indeed playing an attacking role supporting Messi then it does play into the opposition tactics.

Believe it is exactly what @Pat_Mustard wants, I.e. defending deep and having his two attackers isolating your two central defenders to score on the counter.

I get that Messi will cause trouble but besides Vidic and Brehme you also have Schulz defending deep so it is an incredibly tight defense as well. Not to mention Kahn as a goal keeper has proven at the 2002 World Cup that he can single handily keep his team in the game

Again, I don’t doubt that your team is brilliant but there the opposition has built a team to counter your strengths

The headache for pat is not just Messi, but also Maradona. See if Sammer and Vieira are going to combat him, they will leave acres of spaces for Keane and Tigana both are capable running into defenses especially former, as Zanetti is occupied by Carlos, Gerets and Messi will occupy Brehme and Vidic, while Thuram has to keep an eye on Kocsis, constantly monitoring him. Kopa is not gonna get breathing space as Beckenbauer will go after him, and if Kopa also drops deep, he will be taken care of by Keane/Tigana, while Beckenbauer can cover up for the central backs.
And if his midfielders try to battle it out with our midfielders, they are going to give Maradona the little pocket of spaces between the defensive line and midfield, which he can easily exploit as this will lead to one of the CBs and SW giving spaces to Kocsis and Messi to exploit.

pat has a headache of not only going against two players who have proven dribble past whole team again and again creating tonnes of chances, but also a ramming midfielders who given space can do damage. He is going to isolate his attacking duo, and hopeful that Brehme/Zanetti will somehow win the ball and pass to his strikers, who will be up against a defense ready for them.

 

[Moby]

Stam that high up against Romario can end up in tears.

 

[Moby]

This will be the most predictable draft win ever, though Enigma was one good CB away from outdoing him.

Getting Beckenbauer just removed any chance of an upset.

 

[idmanager]

This will be the most predictable draft win ever, though Enigma was one good CB away from outdoing him.

Getting Beckenbauer just removed any chance of an upset.

Think if they met in R1 rather than QF, Enigma would have won.
I would say Forster pick and the change of formation did the trick rather than Beckenbauer.

 

[Moby]

Think if they met in R1 rather than QF, Enigma would have won.
I would say Forster pick and the change of formation did the trick rather than Beckenbauer.

Enigma lost due to his defense. That would have still been an issue against LS' attack. And Enigma got Matthaus in reinforcement, himself.

 

[idmanager]

Enigma lost due to his defense. That would have still been an issue against LS' attack. And Enigma got Matthaus in reinforcement, himself.

I don't disagree that his defense was not the strongest (had the right balance and look about it though), but it would have been easier to win in R1 where LS's formation at least was not as brilliant as the juggernaut is right now.
While Matthaus was a great addition, Rijkaard+Ballack+AdS is a strong enough MF defensively against Maradona and the B2B duo.

Aldair lost the game for both me and Enigma.
For me because he was not cut at this level, for him because it messed up his team with Zico in the mix

 

[Enigma_87]

Enigma lost due to his defense. That would have still been an issue against LS' attack. And Enigma got Matthaus in reinforcement, himself.

In hindsight probably against 4-2-3-1 would've been better for me as Messi would've faced off Cole directly, whilst same can be said about Figo on the other side against Ziege and a highly adventurous 4 man backline of Kaiser, Gerets and Ziege himself.

Either way the earlier was the better as I can see LS now getting Roberto Carlos - thus removing any weak spot in his starting 11 and for the next round he can easily get van Basten or someone of that ilk to even upgrade on Kocsis, or the likes of Matthaus for Keane/Tigana.

It's pretty easy to upgrade on his options since R1 given his initial roster...

 

[Enigma_87]

Aldair lost the game for both me and Enigma.
For me because he was not cut at this level, for him because it messed up his team with Zico in the mix

It's @Edgar Allan Pillow 's fault. The fecker should've gone for Jorginho or a keeper - he had Fillol available after Zico...

 

[harms]

Agree that in the first round Enigma would've probably won.
That's not counting the fact that Ziege just won WPOTY in our football manager experiment

 

[Enigma_87]

That's not counting the fact that Ziege just won WPOTY in our football manager experiment

get out

 

[Moby]

get out

 

[Physiocrat]

I'm just thinking that Pat could have gone even more defensively with a 451 which could have contained LS even more. I was thinking something like this:

--------------Romario/Sheva
J. Zanett--Veron--Sammer---Vieria---Gerrard
------Brehme----Schulz--Vidic----Thuram----
------------------Keeper----------------

Ideally getting another defensive left-back would have been good so you could play Brehme as a left-midfielder. All the thought is to have a back 6 out of possession covered by a midfiled three with Veron to spray it over the top for Sheva/Romario (not sure who's best on their own). Basically it's Pullis tactics without the big man

 

[mazhar13]

Lionel Messi looks like the player who could really make a difference as already highlighted by others. Honestly, I am trying to think about how Vieira can maintain his positional discipline and not get dragged around by LS's midfielders. He seems prone to do that, and Pat's left side can potentially be overwhelmed. It's one thing to sit back and absorb pressure, but it's another thing to do so without conceding dangerous chances; the latter barely, if ever, happens in football history. Otherwise, Pat has the perfect setup to face LS; Romario in particular will be too hot to handle on the counter, and Sheva and Kopa will be key here in dismantling the opposition.

My only thinking is that, if LS's side does score, will his team be able to absorb the pressure from Pat's side? Will Pat's side be able to break down LS's defence when pushing for the equaliser? That's still a tough defence that LS has in there.

I'm just thinking that Pat could have gone even more defensively with a 451 which could have contained LS even more. I was thinking something like this:

--------------Romario/Sheva
J. Zanett--Veron--Sammer---Vieria---Gerrard
------Brehme----Schulz--Vidic----Thuram----
------------------Keeper----------------

Ideally getting another defensive left-back would have been good so you could play Brehme as a left-midfielder. All the thought is to have a back 6 out of possession covered by a midfiled three with Veron to spray it over the top for Sheva/Romario (not sure who's best on their own). Basically it's Pullis tactics without the big man

That'd leave the striker isolated. Ideally, you'll need two forwards in order to really put pressure on LS's defence, else they'll find it easy to sweep up any pass towards the lone striker. His team still has excellent defenders.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

I'm just thinking that Pat could have gone even more defensively with a 451 which could have contained LS even more. I was thinking something like this:

--------------Romario/Sheva
J. Zanett--Veron--Sammer---Vieria---Gerrard
------Brehme----Schulz--Vidic----Thuram----
------------------Keeper----------------

Ideally getting another defensive left-back would have been good so you could play Brehme as a left-midfielder. All the thought is to have a back 6 out of possession covered by a midfiled three with Veron to spray it over the top for Sheva/Romario (not sure who's best on their own). Basically it's Pullis tactics without the big man

I'd choose Shevchenko for that tactic I reckon, as he'd have much more appetite for the constant and often fruitless running. I do like the idea of smothering LS even more, but Zanetti on the left wing probably wouldn't have been well-received and switching to one striker would probably have blunted my threat too much with no particularly notable goalscorers from central midfield. Although switching Zanetti and Brehme, with Zanetti sticking like glue to Messi, would have been interesting.

I did consider dropping Kopa and playing Veron as a DLP instead (staying with the two striker system) but I'd already told @Ecstatic that Kopa would definitely play .

 

[Physiocrat]

That'd leave the striker isolated. Ideally, you'll need two forwards in order to really put pressure on LS's defence, else they'll find it easy to sweep up any pass towards the lone striker. His team still has excellent defenders.

That's possible. My main concern was just to stop LS scoring. That said Slippy and Veron driving forward on the counter could be a threat.

 

[mazhar13]

That's possible. My main concern was just to stop LS scoring. That said Slippy and Veron driving forward on the counter could be a threat.

They would be if there was another forward/another direct player to support the lone forward. Otherwise...Pat's team would be under siege. I've seen this happen many times, most notably yesterday when Toronto FC played only 1 forward against Columbus Crew and didn't get a shot on target (mind you, we had Tosaint Ricketts up front as both Altidore and Giovinco were suspended, but the point still stands).

 

[Physiocrat]

I'd choose Shevchenko for that tactic I reckon, as he'd have much more appetite for the constant and often fruitless running. I do like the idea of smothering LS even more, but Zanetti on the left wing probably wouldn't have been well-received and switching to one striker would probably have blunted my threat too much with no particularly notable goalscorers from central midfield. Although switching Zanetti and Brehme, with Zanetti sticking like glue to Messi, would have been interesting.

I did consider dropping Kopa and playing Veron as a DLP instead (staying with the two striker system) but I'd already told @Ecstatic that Kopa would definitely play .

Yes, switching Brehme and Zanetti makes sense. I suppose you'd be relying on Slippy chipping in for goals with Sheva.

Edit- the other option is just 442 and drop Vieira or Veron. I'd prefer Veron for the passing but then it's not as defensively sound. Either way I think in general a 442/451 is probably more defensively sound than a 532 as you can effectively create a back 6.

Veron for Kopa would be less radical but given you some more defensive oomph.

 

[Moby]

They would be if there was another forward/another direct player to support the lone forward. Otherwise...Pat's team would be under siege. I've seen this happen many times, most notably yesterday when Toronto FC played only 1 forward against Columbus Crew and didn't get a shot on target (mind you, we had Tosaint Ricketts up front as both Altidore and Giovinco were suspended, but the point still stands).

That de-escalated quickly.

 

[mazhar13]

That de-escalated quickly.

Details, details...

Whilst the level of football is lower, I only used that example as I personally observed it.

 

[Physiocrat]

Another idea for Pat is 4411 with Kopa up to support Romario with the Brehme, Vieira, Sammer and Slippy midfield. More defensive than at present but hopefully not as toothless as having Sheva up on his own with no 10 or strike partner

 

[mazhar13]

Another idea for Pat is 4411 with Kopa up to support Romario with the Brehme, Vieira, Sammer and Slippy midfield. More defensive than at present but hopefully not as toothless as having Sheva up on his own with no 10 or strike partner

That'd be better, yes. It'll still be tough for Pat, but that'll make them more dangerous on the counter.

 

[Physiocrat]

That'd be better, yes. It'll still be tough for Pat, but that'll make them more dangerous on the counter.

Got there in the end.

 

[harms]

I think that Kopa-Romario-Sheva is a perfect counter-attacking unit. Mess with it and Pat will be too limited attacking-wise. He just lacks one GOAT DM in Vieira's place, put Rijkaard or Desailly here and it would've been just perfect.

 

[antohan]

Details, details...

Whilst the level of football is lower, I only used that example as I personally observed it.

And absolutely nobody can relate to it.

I don't like that proposed formation nor do I think dropping Kopa for Verón made any sense whatsoever. Pat's tactics are sound and he already has everything needed to smother the GOAT tag team as much as realistically possible with his personnel.

I can see Romario tearing Jaap a new one here and going for a 2-1 for Pat.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

And absolutely nobody can relate to it.

I don't like that proposed formation nor do I think dropping Kopa for Verón made any sense whatsoever. Pat's tactics are sound and he already has everything needed to smother the GOAT tag team as much as realistically possible with his personnel.

I can see Romario tearing Jaap a new one here and going for a 2-1 for Pat.

Cheers Anto. The Veron for Kopa thing was just an idea I very briefly toyed with as Veron was so effective at spraying passes from deep, plus I rate his defensive output higher than most. My starting lineup was pretty much nailed on the moment the draw was made though.

Congratulations @Lord SInister . Awesome team, and now that this is over I can disclose that I reckon Maradona and Messi would work really fecking well together. Honestly, I thought I was going to get absolutely ruined here, so I'm just glad that my game plan was seen as credible and that the scoreline was pretty respectable .

 

[antohan]

Cheers Anto. The Veron for Kopa thing was just an idea I very briefly toyed with as Veron was so effective at spraying passes from deep, plus I rate his defensive output higher than most. My starting lineup was pretty much nailed on the moment the draw was made though.

Congratulations @Lord SInister . Awesome team, and now that this is over I can disclose that I reckon Maradona and Messi would work really fecking well together. Honestly, I thought I was going to get absolutely ruined here, so I'm just glad that my game plan was seen as credible and that the scoreline was pretty respectable .

Sure, but someone had to commit Beckenbauer to isolate the CBs.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Sure, but someone had to commit Beckenbauer to isolate the CBs.

Yep, that (and his superior individual quality) is what made dropping Kopa a non-starter.

 

[idmanager]

You know the game was close to impossible to win when your opponent can win with just 3 posts.

 

[Ecstatic]

There wasn't a clear gap between the 2 teams because Pat has hugely improved his team since the start of the draft.

I'm just thinking that Pat could have gone even more defensively with a 451 which could have contained LS even more. I was thinking something like this:

--------------Romario/Sheva
J. Zanett--Veron--Sammer---Vieria---Gerrard
------Brehme----Schulz--Vidic----Thuram----
------------------Keeper----------------

Ideally getting another defensive left-back would have been good so you could play Brehme as a left-midfielder. All the thought is to have a back 6 out of possession covered by a midfiled three with Veron to spray it over the top for Sheva/Romario (not sure who's best on their own). Basically it's Pullis tactics without the big man

Stronger defensively on paper but I don't see this team (playing football) and scoring a goal but they could get a 0-0.

I'd choose Shevchenko for that tactic I reckon, as he'd have much more appetite for the constant and often fruitless running. I do like the idea of smothering LS even more, but Zanetti on the left wing probably wouldn't have been well-received and switching to one striker would probably have blunted my threat too much with no particularly notable goalscorers from central midfield. Although switching Zanetti and Brehme, with Zanetti sticking like glue to Messi, would have been interesting.

I did consider dropping Kopa and playing Veron as a DLP instead (staying with the two striker system) but I'd already told @Ecstatic that Kopa would definitely play .

Sorry

You know the game was close to impossible to win when your opponent can win with just 3 posts.

Tuppet does the same when he leads easily

 

[Ecstatic]

I think that Kopa-Romario-Sheva is a perfect counter-attacking unit. Mess with it and Pat will be too limited attacking-wise. He just lacks one GOAT DM in Vieira's place, put Rijkaard or Desailly here and it would've been just perfect.

I like this trio. Kopa seems to be a relatively hard-working playmaker.

In an ideal world, Sammer in central defence and a hard guy close to Vieira

 

[Ecstatic]

In hindsight probably against 4-2-3-1 would've been better for me as Messi would've faced off Cole directly, whilst same can be said about Figo on the other side against Ziege and a highly adventurous 4 man backline of Kaiser, Gerets and Ziege himself.

Either way the earlier was the better as I can see LS now getting Roberto Carlos - thus removing any weak spot in his starting 11 and for the next round he can easily get van Basten or someone of that ilk to even upgrade on Kocsis, or the likes of Matthaus for Keane/Tigana.

It's pretty easy to upgrade on his options since R1 given his initial roster...

Do you mean the finalists can choose any player? No longer the teammate rule for the Reinforcement Round?

 

[Tuppet]

Tuppet does the same when he leads easily

I am almost certainly not going to post a lot in final either.

 

[Ecstatic]

I think pat has built the best possible team.

Minor detail but I would have presented the team like that.

 

[Tuppet]

This will be the most predictable draft win ever, though Enigma was one good CB away from outdoing him.

Getting Beckenbauer just removed any chance of an upset.

Idmanager ran him really close in the first round. It was more or less a draw with LS going forward on a technicality amidst controversy.

 

[Ecstatic]

I am almost certainly not going to post a lot in final either.

Yeah, busy times. We are UNFORTUNATELY not paid to enlighten this forum

 

[Ecstatic]

 

[idmanager]

I was not a fan of the Zanetti pick in hindsight. Curious to hear from @Pat_Mustard if he would have gone for him if he knew he was drawing LS?

Sinister's left flank is controlled just by a left wingback with only 1 target to aim at who is well covered by the CBs while Pat has possibly the best player in Thurram for the RCB role.
Perhaps it might have been a good idea to have a RWB/RB less formation with an extra body in midfield for pure defensive work.
Something like this would have been very interesting IMO to nullify Maradona and Messi while keeping tabs on Keana/Tigana not having too much space.

 

[Physiocrat]

Stronger defensively on paper but I don't see this team (playing football) and scoring a goal but they could get a 0-0

Yeah it was too defensive in hindsight. I settled on this side as being the best balanced.

-------------Romario----------
--------------Kopa--------------
Brehme-Sammer-Vieria-Gerrard--
J.Zanetti--Schulz-Vidic--Thuram
--------------Kahn---------------