He’s got to be one of the worst attacking players I’ve seen in a long time. Worse than Werner and that’s saying something.
Donkai Havertz | Arsenal Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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It’s pretty crazy how many players have looked amazing in the Bundesliga and then done little to nothing in the PL.
For some it’s understandable with their skill sets. But others should tear it up and just don’t (looking at you Werner).
For some it’s understandable with their skill sets. But others should tear it up and just don’t (looking at you Werner).
This thread is so bipolar.
1.5 years later and still looks as useless as day 1
Scored the winning goal in the UCL final though so doubt any Chelsea fan cares
Scored the winning goal in the UCL final though so doubt any Chelsea fan cares
Pretty much!
But don't you know he had Covid once about a year ago?
He's had it more than once.
Seems like people are scouting based on highlight reels. Havertz never looked anything amazing to me. For such a young and tall player pretty handy one with decent potential but never ever justified his hype, he will end up worse than Shurle who at least was a system player, whereas avertz doesn't have the grit and pace for the top football. Strangely I can see Chelsea selling him back to BL with not that much loss despite his crazy fee.
Now I feel bad about my joke for being so poorly informed. Well done!
Off to the naughty mate and really think about your behaviour.
The problem with Chelsea's squad are the amount of attacking midfielders they have in their squad all competing for only 2 spots in the lineup. Havertz, Ziyech, CHO, Pulisic, Mount and Werner have all played amongst the 2 in Tuchel's 5-2-2-1. Due to them having so many players, there is a lack of consistent opportunities for either to get a run in the team to be used to the system or, more importantly for new signings, the league.
Injuries certainly haven't helped. Havertz has had Covid twice already and is now playing as a striker due to the lack of form/injuries of Werner and Lukaku. It's not that I rate him incredibly highly, but being in and out of the squad for varying reasons haven't helped Havertz settle into the team and league. Havertz's best form was during the end of last season as part of that final '2', that helped them win the UCL, but he's seemed to have lost that this season.
Injuries certainly haven't helped. Havertz has had Covid twice already and is now playing as a striker due to the lack of form/injuries of Werner and Lukaku. It's not that I rate him incredibly highly, but being in and out of the squad for varying reasons haven't helped Havertz settle into the team and league. Havertz's best form was during the end of last season as part of that final '2', that helped them win the UCL, but he's seemed to have lost that this season.
It is also how many games he has missed from having Covid twice, plus minor dings.
Nah the problem is they're all of a similar quality and that that quality isn't good enough
All those you listed would be great squad options and backups to better players
No one except Bayern would have the money for that, and they don't need him, so that's not going to happen.
It takes time.
Salah didn’t just arrive and play 10/10 every game. De Bruyne wasn’t an instant hit.
It’s super rare to see a player move leagues and instantly click. Bruno made it look easy but that was a freak.
Salah didn’t just arrive and play 10/10 every game. De Bruyne wasn’t an instant hit.
It’s super rare to see a player move leagues and instantly click. Bruno made it look easy but that was a freak.
The second time they did
It’s been 18 months. He’s just a very nothing player.
Another one of these players tagged with the stupid american term "generational talent". Hate that term, so stupid.
Let's see what he does over next 5 years or so. Ronaldo and Messi have completely skewed the best player in the world standards. Pre-Messi and Ronaldo, it would take a player to hit their peak years 26-29 to get to very top of their game. Maybe Havertz will eventually fulfill that potential that scouts saw in him in germany.
Let's see what he does over next 5 years or so. Ronaldo and Messi have completely skewed the best player in the world standards. Pre-Messi and Ronaldo, it would take a player to hit their peak years 26-29 to get to very top of their game. Maybe Havertz will eventually fulfill that potential that scouts saw in him in germany.
Yeah I’m not sold on him. I called that he might struggle to make an impact in this league along with Werner.
He’s clearly talented but needs to be more involved in the game, seems to pass him by.
In all seriousness, I think the assessment here is a bit harsh given the circumstances - he was clearly forced into action post-(second round of) COVID and I didn't think he was terrible. Honestly, Havertz and Mount are both very good pressers and for the most part they did a decent job preventing Liverpool building out from the back I thought.
Yes, he should definitely score more goals, but him putting in an average performance against a top top side having been thrust into the XI due to factors outside of his control surely is a harsh stick to beat him with?
Yes, he should definitely score more goals, but him putting in an average performance against a top top side having been thrust into the XI due to factors outside of his control surely is a harsh stick to beat him with?
I think the way this thread flows is a very good overall assessment of Havertz. He's clearly very talented, but he's also very inconsistent. He's been held back by factors outside of his control, but he's also been flat out average sometimes, and then he's incredibly good at other times.
Overall I'm very, very happy with him. He contributes enough during his good moments, and provided hard work, presses well etc during his average moments.
Plus he's one of only 3 players in Chelsea's history to score in a CL final, so you know, the leeway he gets is endless in my book.
Werner's a bit different though. He's actually always threat when he's on the pitch - but he just couldn't finish last season, for whatever reason. I think if he somehow becomes clinical, he'd be awesome because he causes so many problems with and without the ball
Yeah putting the ball in the net is his issue, bit of a big one though.
Yep fully agreed - his price tag has clearly done him no favours but the ceiling he's shown is unquestionably elite. As you say it's been up and down but that's hardly down to him - very harsh to fault him for Lampard playing him as an 8 for two months followed by a severe case of COVID.
Compared to others we have purchased recently Havertz is among the least of my concerns.
Hes very talented, hes just soft. Needs to toughen up a lot in this league in terms of not being nudged off the ball all the time. But when he has his good games for us, he is quality.
Similar with Werner, although i do think he could be off this summer, i think he is actually a lot better than comments in these threads would suggest, and his stats. He was bought to score and hasnt done it enough, but he offers a lot at times
Yes Lpool didnt have Alisson and Robertson, but i think if Werner had started over Havertz today we'd have won that, his pace would have been a weapon. Havertz just isnt fit right now
I thought Chelsea looked dangerous with Werner in the side, his finishing is poor but he is threat all game. His movement is very good, works very hard and always involved in the game.
Lukaku and havertz will challenge Barcelona who has the most 100m flops
I wouldnt mind giving him a go if Chelsea get rid of him, we have many players who can take a shot but few who have his qualities (among the forwards, only Cavani really, and he looks to be leaving). There's a real dearth of quality no.9 in the game and we are hardly frontrunners when it comes to getting Haaland.
Yeah, we don't have players who make unselfish runs like Werner. So wouldn't mind taking him as long as we get him for good price.
His stats are shocking.
Our fans would think our players are worse than him.
Our fans would think our players are worse than him.
I would gladly take him back if Chelsea fans are so unsatisfied with him.
I don’t think you are seeing that in this thread, or on Chelsea forums. He will develop.
Think it's mostly United fans criticizing him here.
It's obviously unreasonable to do so given that he was 21 years old by the time of his move, moved to a foreign country during a pandemic (struggling with isolation and everything) while his club went through a crisis AND caught covid twice. Still scored the winning goal in a CL final and is a starter in a very strong squad.
Then again, few United fans in this thread even try to be reasonable, so one probably shouldn't take that too seriously. Many posters in here seem to think being biased towards rivals makes them top reds for whatever reasons.
It's obviously unreasonable to do so given that he was 21 years old by the time of his move, moved to a foreign country during a pandemic (struggling with isolation and everything) while his club went through a crisis AND caught covid twice. Still scored the winning goal in a CL final and is a starter in a very strong squad.
Then again, few United fans in this thread even try to be reasonable, so one probably shouldn't take that too seriously. Many posters in here seem to think being biased towards rivals makes them top reds for whatever reasons.
Not disagreeing with you as you've seen him more than me, but just wondering where you see his best position and what aspects of his game would you say are unquestionably elite?
To me he looks decent but I'm not seeing any signs of this generational talent yet.
Havertz played as an 8 for us primarily, too. Can't blame Lampard for that. I still think it might be his best position but he's a very versatile player.
He is like many other hyped talents who made the step up but can't find his true position in top level football. He is not as hardworking as Pulisic and Mount. Technically he isn't far better any of them too. Chelsea's system require attackers who play direct football.
Fair question! I think he's best when given license to roam a bit - probably a false 9 has been his best position for Chelsea.
I think he's pretty elite when it comes to off-ball movement and ability to find space - he definitely has to improve on the ball though. Also, he's a genuinely excellent presser and this is a big part of why Chelsea look more cohesive with him in the side overall. That said, I can appreciate that these aren't unquestionably elite attributes - I suppose what I meant more was that when he's put it all together his ceiling as a player is elite (e.g. the CL final, where he was neck and neck with Kante for best player on the pitch). He absolutely needs to add consistency to his game though - but when he's at it he's tremendous.
Yeah I suppose but he was coming off that brilliant second half of the season playing as a false 9 post-lockdown. I wouldn't fault Lampard for giving it a go but he should have tried other ways of deploying Havertz - though Lampard was pretty dogmatic about his approach overall.
Looks like he's found his home at false 9. He's been in a pretty good form for a while but he's finally found consistency in front of goal. It's clear his presence just makes the team much better. I feel like we're finally beginning to see what we paid the big fee for.
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