Donkai Havertz | Arsenal Watch

WeePat

Full Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
16,970
Supports
Chelsea
WTF... I didn't follow them closely, is it really that bad? :lol:
0-1 vs Forest
0-0 vs Bournemouth
0-1 vs Villa

Should have won them all to be honest but yeah, awful wastefulness in front of goal.
 

Powderfinger

Full Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Messages
2,131
Supports
Arsenal
His work off the ball and defensively has been very good. He is a big improvement on Xhaka in terms of his ability to cover ground, win duels, and help out Zinchenko on that side. Not there yet in terms of final third contribution obviously but that’s really only one part of his role.

People judging him solely on goals+assists aren’t really watching what Arteta is doing with him or the role he plays in the side. He might not end up justifying the fee but he’s a good player that gives us things nobody else does in that position and makes Arsenal better as an overall squad.
 

Buckie

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 10, 2019
Messages
189
Supports
Arsenal
To be fair, I have the same number of EPL goals as Chelsea in September.

Back to Havertz though, he also has more Champions League winners medals than Arsenal have in their entire history. He's a marvel!
Outscoring former clubs, winning Champions League medals! He's a force of nature for sure!
 

GoonerGirly

Full Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
896
Supports
Arsenal
His work off the ball and defensively has been very good. He is a big improvement on Xhaka in terms of his ability to cover ground, win duels, and help out Zinchenko on that side. Not there yet in terms of final third contribution obviously but that’s really only one part of his role.

People judging him solely on goals+assists aren’t really watching what Arteta is doing with him or the role he plays in the side. He might not end up justifying the fee but he’s a good player that gives us things nobody else does in that position and makes Arsenal better as an overall squad.
Yeah, this is where I struggle with judging his performances. Off the ball and defensively he's not been a downgrade on Xhaka (surprisingly) and his work rate and positioning is better than I thought. We have more than managed in midfield without Partey for the first time in years and Havertz has played his part in that. But going forward, he's lacked that bit of edge and composure. If he scored his chances vs United and Fulham, we'd probably be having a very different conversation about him.

I agree that as a squad option he will come in handy as can play 2 positions. However I think that moving him around is probably hurting him ATM as he's still trying to settle into the team.
 

cesc's_mullet

Get a haircut Hippy!
Joined
Apr 9, 2006
Messages
27,066
Supports
Arsenal
Don't like the signing at all at this stage.

But the away fans were brilliant and I'm very pleased they showed him such support. Hopefully it helps him lift his performances.
 

jakko

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Messages
551
Supports
Chelsea
Interestingly, with his goal today - and that video above is both hilarious and savage - Havertz does have more EPL goals in the month of September than the entire Chelsea squad.
That doesn't make Havertz good.
 

CannonBalls

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
365
Supports
Arsenal
Got an assist today.
He is down on confidence but he is not a bad player as many would suggest.
Have we purchased him for 40m-45m from a german team nobody would be complaining.
 

awop

Odds winner of 'Odds or Evens 2022/2023'
Newbie
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Messages
4,033
Location
Paris
Supports
Arsenal
Got an assist today.
He is down on confidence but he is not a bad player as many would suggest.
Have we purchased him for 40m-45m from a german team nobody would be complaining.
Yes, a good cameo today. All 4 subs combining for the winning goal !
Stamford Bridge next would be the perfect place to get his first (real) goal.
 

Bubz27

No I won’t change your tag line
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
21,419
An assist on huge deflected goal does not a good player make.
 

Daydreamer

Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
1,135
Supports
Arsenal
Got an assist today.
He is down on confidence but he is not a bad player as many would suggest.
Have we purchased him for 40m-45m from a german team nobody would be complaining.
Absolutely. It’s the £65m price tag plus the fact that we (along with United) essentially funded their purchase of Caicedo. As it happens, Caicedo’s start to season has actually been any better than Havertz. And Havertz has actually been defensively pretty sound.

I wouldn’t have thought he would have replaced that side of Xhaka’s contribution so effectively. I thought he’d match Xhaka’s goals tally and leave us a bit porous in MF. Whereas he’s actually been statistically better of the ball than Xhaka was last season, but with far less of a cutting edge.

Unexpected.
 

WeePat

Full Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
16,970
Supports
Chelsea
Caicedo has been genuinely top class the last 3 games, after he got over the off season rust. So yeah, I’d say his start to the season has been miles better than Havertz. Ridiculous comparison the more I think about it.

Havertz was decent today though. I wouldn’t claim that assist as anything noteworthy as there was a huge stroke of luck with the goal but even without the assist, it was a nice cameo.
 

NoPace

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
9,228
Did what they bought him for today, gave Arsenal some physical presence in an attacking moment which they were crying out for as they never looked like actually being able to play through or counter against City.

By the 60 minute mark, I was thinking of average Prem strikers who I'd happily bring on if I was Arteta since they had to play over the top or get a header from a Martinelli cross to have any hope of a goal. It just wasn't a game for subtlety in attack as both teams were well drilled and very, very conservative whenever the other team had possession, which was illustrated by Doku's dribbling and Jesus' power on the wing (for a striker he's average in that regard but like most strikers, can use his body well on the wing, shoutout to uh Tore Andre Flo and the Norwegian team of the early-mid 90s) doing fairly well while Alvarez was non-existent and Nketiah mostly looked useless. Havertz is the closest thing they have to a big striker.
 

jakko

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Messages
551
Supports
Chelsea
Got an assist today.
He is down on confidence but he is not a bad player as many would suggest.
Have we purchased him for 40m-45m from a german team nobody would be complaining.
How do you know he has a lack of confidence? He's been playing this way for 3 years.
If you bought a player for £45M and after like 10 games you struggle to tell people what attributes he has on the ball thats still something to complain about.
 

CannonBalls

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
365
Supports
Arsenal
How do you know he has a lack of confidence? He's been playing this way for 3 years.
If you bought a player for £45M and after like 10 games you struggle to tell people what attributes he has on the ball thats still something to complain about.

I think how he fits in the system is still unknown but his attributes are clear.
His pressing and defensive contribution is good. And he has the best holdup play in our squad. His height is helpful and so is his Physicality.
How to fit him in our system and best leverage those attributes is still not clear but that can happen to any player/team.
 

ThierryHenry14

Full Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2015
Messages
3,936
Supports
Arsenal
How do you know he has a lack of confidence? He's been playing this way for 3 years.
If you bought a player for £45M and after like 10 games you struggle to tell people what attributes he has on the ball thats still something to complain about.
That is true.
 

jakko

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Messages
551
Supports
Chelsea
I think how he fits in the system is still unknown but his attributes are clear.
His pressing and defensive contribution is good. And he has the best holdup play in our squad. His height is helpful and so is his Physicality.
How to fit him in our system and best leverage those attributes is still not clear but that can happen to any player/team.
I said on the ball attributes.
 

Red00012

Full Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
11,814
Got an assist today.
He is down on confidence but he is not a bad player as many would suggest.
Have we purchased him for 40m-45m from a german team nobody would be complaining.
He’s shit and has been shit for 3 years and ye overpaid for him knowing he has been shit in the PL.
 

P-Ro

"Full Member"
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
Messages
11,014
Location
Salford
Supports
Chelsea and AFC Wimbledon
He's almost the worst Chelsea player sold this season.
 

Rightnr

Wants players fined for winning away.
Joined
Jan 25, 2015
Messages
13,626
If this guy was playing at United or Arse were as bad as us, Mason Mount wouldn't have to worry about being the worst signing of the summary (or decade).
 

ti vu

Full Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
12,799
Incredible how Chelsea got over 100mil for Mount and Kai Harvertz. It's like they somehow con us and Arsenal into believing these two simply underperforming by reappointing Lampard as interim last season.
 

GoonerGirly

Full Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
896
Supports
Arsenal
He seems to have no intensity, which is weird because that's a big part of our game. I don't know if Arteta still plans on him being LCM, though it seems not. He doesn't seem sure where he fits into our team ATM, he's been played in 2-3 different positions, hard to know how much is of design and how much is due to squad availability.
 

GoonerGirly

Full Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
896
Supports
Arsenal
Incredible how Chelsea got over 100mil for Mount and Kai Harvertz. It's like they somehow con us and Arsenal into believing these two simply underperforming by reappointing Lampard as interim last season.
It's an interesting race to see who turns out to be the worse signing by the end of the season :lol:
 

putzmcgee123

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 30, 2023
Messages
475
Incredible how Chelsea got over 100mil for Mount and Kai Harvertz. It's like they somehow con us and Arsenal into believing these two simply underperforming by reappointing Lampard as interim last season.
They have never been the best at buying players (and under Boehly, that has gotten exponentially worse), but they remain among the best at selling their dead wood.
 

WeePat

Full Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
16,970
Supports
Chelsea
It's an interesting race to see who turns out to be the worse signing by the end of the season :lol:
It will be Havertz and it won’t be close in my opinion. Mount will eventually find his feet at United. Injuries haven’t helped him either. Havertz was plugged into an already well functioning team and he’s stuck out like a sore thumb. He actually looks worse than anything he ever showed at Chelsea.
 

GoonerGirly

Full Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
896
Supports
Arsenal
It will be Havertz and it won’t be close in my opinion. Mount will eventually find his feet at United. Injuries haven’t helped him either. Havertz was plugged into an already well functioning team and he’s stuck out like a sore thumb. He actually looks worse than anything he ever showed at Chelsea.
Perhaps, it does look like Arteta has no idea what to do with him now. He does seem a very good squad option, can play 2-3 positions (has been played at CF and left/right side of midfield) and I think that'll be very useful over the course of the season in the different comps. But obviously you don't spend £65mil on a player meant to be a squad option.
 

jakko

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Messages
551
Supports
Chelsea
They have never been the best at buying players (and under Boehly, that has gotten exponentially worse), but they remain among the best at selling their dead wood.
That isn't true, our signings under Boehly since the new recruitment team in place since January haven't been bad signings.
Last summer our signings were bad but that was on Tuchel.
 

ThierryHenry14

Full Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2015
Messages
3,936
Supports
Arsenal
Perhaps, it does look like Arteta has no idea what to do with him now. He does seem a very good squad option, can play 2-3 positions (has been played at CF and left/right side of midfield) and I think that'll be very useful over the course of the season in the different comps. But obviously you don't spend £65mil on a player meant to be a squad option.
Let's be honest, he is an extremely poor requisition with his performance for his transfer fee and wages. No need to sugar coat it.
 

padr81

Full Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
11,821
Supports
Man City
Havertz is such a weird one, seems like he has the technique, has the size and has shown glimpses of what he could be.
But he's mentally miles off and looks terrified to actually play. I think a move to a midtable German club or something could maybe reset him. Clearly atm not got the mentality or confidence to be at a top team.
 

ti vu

Full Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
12,799
Played left back for Germany in this game, scored, and Nagglesman reckoned he was their best player.

WTF has happened to the German national team!:eek:
Germany goes full hipster with Nagelsmann. Nagelsmann is an entirely tier of his own with overcomplicating formation, tactic
 

T00lsh3d

Full Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2014
Messages
8,051
Havertz is such a weird one, seems like he has the technique, has the size and has shown glimpses of what he could be.
But he's mentally miles off and looks terrified to actually play. I think a move to a midtable German club or something could maybe reset him. Clearly atm not got the mentality or confidence to be at a top team.
Exactly, which is why it’s so bizarre that it’s not working out at Arsenal
 

Bluelion7

Full Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2021
Messages
1,192
Supports
Chelsea
I blame Arteta. Havertz obviously just needs the right compliment of players around him to fit well. Maybe someone that plays on the left with a lot of pace? Call us.