The weird thing with these Ole conspiracies are that if he was genuinely an Ole signing then he’s undermining his own position with the club by signing a player who they’ll likely have to take a big loss on because of, at least in part, being ostracised. The simpler answer seems the right one: he’s come in and they don’t see him as being better than the other players.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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I'm actually a lot more focused on United needing a better manager, but yeah if Donny wants to play he better leave.
Beek FC has replaced martial FC
This forum's funny.
You had a great win last last night with a world class individual goal and a fantastic last minute team goal, yet still some people are more obsessed about someone who didn't even play.
To be honest he reminds me of Kleberson, might flatter to deceive elsewhere but not good enough to play in the Premier League and certainly not good enough for a club like Manchester United.
I think Van der Sar's comments when you signed him were, looking back, quite telling, all the emotional "Take care of Donny" stuff, as if he was a little lost boy leaving home for the first time.
Can you imagine Brian Clough saying to Alex Ferguson "You will take care of Roy won't you? Make sure he eats his greens and puts his vest on when it gets a bit chilly".
You had a great win last last night with a world class individual goal and a fantastic last minute team goal, yet still some people are more obsessed about someone who didn't even play.
To be honest he reminds me of Kleberson, might flatter to deceive elsewhere but not good enough to play in the Premier League and certainly not good enough for a club like Manchester United.
I think Van der Sar's comments when you signed him were, looking back, quite telling, all the emotional "Take care of Donny" stuff, as if he was a little lost boy leaving home for the first time.
Can you imagine Brian Clough saying to Alex Ferguson "You will take care of Roy won't you? Make sure he eats his greens and puts his vest on when it gets a bit chilly".
It is a bit strange. I think its partly because people can see the issues in the midfield and, in their minds, Van de Beek could solve them.
The issue is there's not that much to make us believe that. Yeah, you can argue that he deserves more chances. However, I can see why Ole goes defensive given how open we can be. Van de Beek is not Edgar Davids. If he was anything close to that he'd be playing.
They both pale in comparison to Ole FC.
Ole is destroying this young guy's career.
At the very least he should be allowed to leave on loan in January.
At the very least he should be allowed to leave on loan in January.
Imagine that, the actual manager who running the whole thing,...............and putting players who aren't doing it at all at the club, as your main thought of concern, poor beek. It's pathetic to be honest.
Fella on a fortune, and fans sitting feeling for him......in a squad that loaded with players. He not the only one not getting on every game.
Unless he can play left back as well not sure why people are crying about last night, it's not beek FC.............the manager subs won the game.
He ruining the poor man career apparently.
Which means they happy if he started and some other poor player wasn't getting the games, I'm sure they be raging at their career being ruined too.
Daftest nonsense crap I've ever heard
He spat the gum to phelan
One part of us being so open is that we give away quite a lot of turnovers in midfield. Impossible to know if VDB can solve that but given his skillset it feels like he could at least mitigate those issues. Or it's just a coaching issue so VDB won't change anything, who knows... We have not improved in that aspect at least, that's for sure.
I don't a single bad signing is going to have any impact on Ole's tenure. His signings have been so much better than than those of his predecessors.
Guy indicated he wants to play. His agent got him a loan deal to Everton. Ole blocked the move and said he would get chances. Guys like Lingard/Martial have declined moves away and someone like Bailly hasn't been looking for one. I don't see the double standard at all. Lingard was allowed to go on loan this past January. I don't see the double standard at all.He ruining the poor man career apparently.
Which means they happy if he started and some other poor player wasn't getting the games, I'm sure they be raging at their career being ruined too.
Daftest nonsense crap I've ever heard
It's quite clear that Ole is a bit of a hoarder. He kept VDB in case of an injury crisis. He only trusts him over the u23s players. Fine and all, but lying to him incentivizes him and his agent to put up a massive stink in January to get a move, because he's not going to get out otherwise.
#FreeDonny
Exactly you answered yourself their.
How dare the manager out the club first and keep a player to cover in case we get injuries. Imagine him putting the club first, instead of poor Beek and the beek FC fans.
I think he get a game Saturday then. Poor soul
Bizarre how he gets no game time given the quality of performance put in by the other midfielders this season.
I would love to hear an honest explanation from Ole why he is not giving him a good crack at staking a claim for a first team spot.
I would love to hear an honest explanation from Ole why he is not giving him a good crack at staking a claim for a first team spot.
He's below Pogba, McTominay, Fred and Matic in the pecking order. We'd need 3 injuries to our midfielders for VDB to get a look in. Those types of crises seldom happy pre JanuaryExactly you answered yourself their.
How dare the manager out the club first and keep a player to cover in case we get injuries. Imagine him putting the club first, instead of poor Beek and the beek FC fans.
I think he get a game Saturday then. Poor soul
So he keeps him around for half a season and then VDB and his agent are forced to do some Raiola tactics to get him out in January. I don't see the wisdom in what Ole's doing with regards to VDB.
Probably frustration, because this Utd side look so bad in midfield all the time. We've looked at Fred and McT not being able to do the basics of control, pass and move. They have no idea how to position themselves in midfield. Pogba is just a law unto himself and does whatever he wants. Matic is too old.
Then you have this guy sat on the bench, he cost 40m, he proved at Ajax how he could handle himself against top teams in the CL. No matter what he or anyone else does it seems he's not going to get a chance. Which is weird because the likes of Lingard, Martial and James kept been given oppurtunities and the first two still are.
At this stage I think a lot of people just feel sorry for him, it seems it's not going to work out for him at Utd and he'd be better off looking for a move elsewhere. Maybe to Barca to link up with his Ajax buddy Frenkie again.
I don’t see how he is constantly overlooked. Its not as though our current midfield options are defensively solid at all. This would be the only reason why I would say you would not start him.
He keeps the ball better than the other options and would probably not absolutely kill every attack with wayward passes like most of our midfielders currently do. We largely concede chances due to these turnovers atleast with him we’d keep the ball better.
He keeps the ball better than the other options and would probably not absolutely kill every attack with wayward passes like most of our midfielders currently do. We largely concede chances due to these turnovers atleast with him we’d keep the ball better.
If Ole had no intention to use him regularly this season, he should've sold him or atleast go out on loan.
I know he's been less likely to pass back or sideway in the few last matches than previously but it's still a lot. Guess you forgot how much he did last year, repeatedly killed our attack or counter with his backward passing. It was really infuriating and annoying to watch.
Actually our midfielders like McFred, Matic hardly give the ball away when we're in possession. Their problem was rather to deal with the counter once one of our attackers loses the ball, a turnover. McFred because of their positioning issue and Matic because of his legs. Or to progress the ball forward with McFred. So imo it won't make any difference, probably even worse if we play DVB instead of the current options. He's slow, has a tendency to pass backward sideway and basically has no positional sense or the defensive awareness of a DM either.
No narrative,
He hasn't shown he's good enough yet.
That can be attributed to lack of game time or maybe he just isn't quite good enough.
Ole gets to see these players day in, day out on the training ground, he also uses his analyst team to track their stats, Ole is extremely thorough in this department so Donny must not be doing something right in order to not get on the pitch.
Its up to Donny to work harder to try to get the minutes he obviously feels he deserves.
There no narrative in that, that is actually what's happening.
Why on loan? We are short in CM as it is!
If we had of got a bid of £30m plus I am sure he would have been out of that door so we can get a replacement in.
Then, wouldn't you agree that Ole should've let him go in the summer? we have McFred, Pogba and Matic for the CM role, Bruno & Lingard for the CAM role, that to me seems decent number of players to cover midfield roles plus the fact he isn't better than any of them so that makes VdB surplus to requirements.
That's not true at all.
VDB in his last few games has put in much better performances than Mctominay has in the last couple.
The fact is Ole likes/trusts Mctominay and he doesn't like VDB, it's that simple. Like any manager they have their favourites, but he should stop giving them false hope and let them leave.
The likes of Jones, Lingard, Pereira, Dalot etc - he just wants to keep them around and pretend like they'll get their chances which is obviously rubbish.
VDB will never get a run in the team no matter what he does, he should be allowed to leave.
I do feel sorry for him in that his playing time is just so limited and it's difficult to make an impact in the amount of time he's had or when you're brought in as part of a series of changes (given that our first eleven often shows little cohesion it's hard to see how the other squad players could have much cohesion either). I don't think it helps that we've struggled in too many games to ever be comfortable enough for Ole to feel like he can sub him in.
Personally I was encouraged by him in the West Ham game overall and would like to see him given a run alongside one of Fred/McT but I don't see it happening.
Obviously it's still relatively early into the season but given we're out of the league cup, dropped points in the PL so can't afford to mix it up and currently in a tight CL group it's hard to see where he'll get the chances. At the end of the day I don't think you spend c£40m of a 5th choice CM (and expect Pogba/Lingard are ahead of him in the number 10 role) and so it's hard to see this continuing as 1. He's doesn't seem to be what Ole is looking for so we're better trying to find a player who is and 2. I don't think he's really getting the chances/the team is in a place where he'll get them and therefore for his career it would probably make sense to move on in Jan if we're able to bring someone in.
It's an interesting one though with Pogba as guess there's still questions on whether he'll stay and so we may be in a position where VDB wants to go and Pogba is also leaving so we need to replace both of them by the end of the season.
Personally I was encouraged by him in the West Ham game overall and would like to see him given a run alongside one of Fred/McT but I don't see it happening.
Obviously it's still relatively early into the season but given we're out of the league cup, dropped points in the PL so can't afford to mix it up and currently in a tight CL group it's hard to see where he'll get the chances. At the end of the day I don't think you spend c£40m of a 5th choice CM (and expect Pogba/Lingard are ahead of him in the number 10 role) and so it's hard to see this continuing as 1. He's doesn't seem to be what Ole is looking for so we're better trying to find a player who is and 2. I don't think he's really getting the chances/the team is in a place where he'll get them and therefore for his career it would probably make sense to move on in Jan if we're able to bring someone in.
It's an interesting one though with Pogba as guess there's still questions on whether he'll stay and so we may be in a position where VDB wants to go and Pogba is also leaving so we need to replace both of them by the end of the season.
It really is just this. I actually thought he was impressive against West Ham, but he's been very poor a lot more than he's been good. The club clearly have their reasons for putting him where he is in the pecking order, and I'm sure Ole would love nothing more than for him to become someone that's impossible to leave out.
I hear that but every season there are discussions about people playing or not. I honestly can't remember when the last time so many Utd fans were saying we are ruining a player and he should leave. I know it's related to the current state of our midfield but surely if that's the case, more reason for him to stay. There's injuries, suspensions and maybe a bit longer down the road, I can see Matic and Pogs leaving this summer. Also how do we build a squad if when players aren't playing, we think they should leave?
I'm sure people felt the same about Jessie but he was instrumental yesterday in the goal and also the win against West Ham.
You seem to be saying the decision not to play him more is quite a data driven black and white decision but in reality its still down to the coach to make the decision based on their perceptions. Many coaches have 'favourite' players who they will play even if their performances dont warrant it and oles seem to be mcfred.
Mcfred offer endeavour only for much of the time, they dont even protect the defence that well as their positioning isnt great. I am not sure whether donny is the ideal solution for our midfield woes but i do think he could fo better than fred if given the opportunity
Agreed. I think if Pogs and Matic were playing well, no one would be saying Donny needs to leave, it's all caught up in the McFred nonsense. Ole is in his dream job, the pressure is on, why would he not play Donny if it increased his chance of winning. If a youth team player was impressive against West Ham, people would say it's within the context of the game, West Ham's B team and a trophy neither team had much interest in anyway....
Ole isnt very good at utilising a squad though, he tends to rely on the same players all the time which means those outside this core group feel ostracised
If donny doesnt get minutes this season i think he would want to leave in summer regardless of whether matic and pogba donny and from our perspective there is no point keeping someone the manager so clearly doesnt rate
Ole is pragmatic and he'll look at it in that way. If you are in your dream job, once in a lifetime opportunity that would never present itself again, and you have 2 employees, respect each other, that turn up everyday, trusted, work hard and contributed to you keeping it, why would you fire them off and trust a bloke who is too old and good but turns up only 3 days a week, a highflyer that is superb but is inconsistent, always talks about leaving and you'd have to employ someone else to get the best out of him (or the old bloke) and he still leaves. Then there's the new kid, your boss employed him, thinking the highflyer was leaving and whilst he might be good, it's a risk cause you can only play him with the old bloke....
But the problem is, he wanted to leave but Ole wouldn't let him because he would get chances. But he isn't getting chances
Thing is that hes actually been good in his last few outings. Hes not really a game changer, so bringing him on as a sub will do sweet f all. But its just really awkward.
He clearly doesn't believe so. Which is fine, I don't think VDB is that good either just that he deserves a shot considering his competition. Ole could be wrong.
Ole lied, like all top managers do. Also fine. maybe he wanted to buy time to get a replacement in. If we replace VDB in January it will make sense.
Not sure any of us behind our keyboards are in any position to know how players 'feel'. Some might I guess and others might be quite happy to take the money. He might leave but that will be down to the club, not Donny. Not sure Ole doesn't rate him, just he rate others more. Despite people just wanting him to play cause they hate McFred, football doesn't work like that. Donnys best position is an 8. Pogs and Bruno are 8's and that's why he's not playing.
Pogba's camp have said a lot of shit over the last 4 years. Taking it seriously is not something I'd do.
I didn't suggest pairing VdB with Pogba. However, VdB and Mctominay/Fred/Matic would not be any worse than what we saw last night and see most games.
I've said many many times that Pogba cannot play in a midfield two, ever.
So. How does that impact on Utd fans whether he gets chances or not. You could potentially say the same about Henderson. Why isn't the fans saying he should leave?
It shows he cares, he not happy just to sit on bench and claim his money
Let's be honest, let's take out the equation McFred cause irrespective of people's opinions, he likes them. I'm sure Ole has more to worry about with Lindelof, Martial, Eddy, Lingard, Amad getting game time, than to focus just on Donny. When was football ever deserving......
When he doesnt play, people make a big fuss. When he plays, he gets called a "bit of a nothing player". Same old, same old.
Dunno why people are more concerned for his career than having a decent player as a rotation option. Surely club comes first.
Dunno why people are more concerned for his career than having a decent player as a rotation option. Surely club comes first.
Awkward? Not for me, seen hundred of players sat on Utds bench and not play. Good is subjective and based what basis you are making that assessment. We hate Scott and Fred but their CV of 'good' reads much different. How about Man City home or away, or PSG away? Not saying they are, but to Ole it's a different kind of assessment than Everton when the season was over, YB and West Ham's B team....
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