Or they aren't that good? Decent players can look very good in a system and in a weaker league. Character has a big part in it as well, you can't come into United then shrink into your shell because people ask what is it you actually do on the pitch.Exactly. If you spend £40m on a player, then you have to give them at least a run of 4 or 5 games to test them. It can take players a year or so to adapt to a new league, but they never will if they never play.
By freezing him out the way United(especially Solskjaer) have done, his value just continues to plummet and we're left wondering why nobody wants to take him off our hands. Shocking mismanagement and it could lead to young players choosing other clubs over us as they don't see many signs of progress if they join us.
The likes of Van de Beek and Sancho get plenty of stick for not being good enough, but who is the last young player we signed who genuinely improved during their time at the club? The lack of improvement from our players surely highlights a big problem with the coaching and team selections, rather than the players themselves. They can't all be that bad.
The people running the club, unfortunately. They seemed to think we'd actually get money for the guy which we could then use to fund our Amrabat deal.Who is wondering why nobody wants to take him off our hands? How many are sat there confused by such a thing, must be a tiny fraction of people.
Ole gave him far more minutes during his time here than ETH did last season before his injury. It is a false narrative that he was treated badly by Ole, the truth is he played badly under Ole and never looked capable of adjusting to the PL. Three years later and that still holds, he has no real position at which he excels and is far too lightweight for the physicality of this league.I think he was treated terribly by Ole, and the player has never recovered from it.
Could be a mixture of both, but why aren't any of the young players we sign showing any signs of improvement?Or they aren't that good? Decent players can look very good in a system and in a weaker league. Character has a big part in it as well, you can't come into United then shrink into your shell because people ask what is it you actually do on the pitch.
Not everyone can be world class just because we've signed them, there's players all over the league that arrive for big money and big promise yet never make it to those heights, it's almost like it's very hard to do so...
I'm not sure that's exactly what they were thinking with VDB in particular. Even if they did I am sure their view changed when he has been on the market all summer.The people running the club, unfortunately. They seemed to think we'd actually get money for the guy which we could then use to fund our Amrabat deal.
I fundamentally disagree witht that statement. You don't have a right to play if you are not good enough. Ole didn't mistreat or verbally abuse Donny, didn't steal his lunch money or sleep with his wife. Ole should have played a shite player so as not to hurt his feelings? Donny was not worth playing, next to him McTominay is Roy Keane and Paul Scholes rolled into one.Fukking hell, Ole did in fact treat Donny badly. We all kept our eyes on the minute clock and on cue, Donny would be subbed on in the 85th minute.
We’re all free to believe he’s shite, but he was in fact never given a run of matches to integrate into the squad. And then of course we all know about Ole’s last season when Ralf took over, when everyone fell apart.
The real problem is that with Bruno we never needed Donny, who simply isn’t as good as Bruno, a player who has a perfect fitness record and that we’ve come to rely heavily on. Time for Donny to go, but we fukked him over by buying him and then hardly ever playing him.
You can't prove you're gold or shit if you're not given a proper chance to prove it. Coming on in the 85th minute is not a "chance".I fundamentally disagree witht that statement. You don't have a right to play if you are not good enough. Ole didn't mistreat or verbally abuse Donny, didn't steal his lunch money or sleep with his wife. Ole should have played a shite player so as not to hurt his feelings? Donny was not worth playing, next to him McTominay is Roy Keane and Paul Scholes rolled into one.
From our perspective that is fair enough but Ole watched him every day in training and we have no idea what he saw there. Donny may well have been levels below his teammates in every practice, he might have consistently ignored instructions and wandered out of position in training matches. As fans we gauge the effectiveness of a player during those brief moments when they are playing a competitive game but a Manager has so much more information available. I don't think Ole would have kept Donny out of the side for any other reason than that he did not believe he was good enough and I don't equate not rating someone with treating them badly. It just sucks for Donny that he is not a very good player and moved to a club and a league that was above his level.You can't prove you're gold or shit if you're not given a proper chance to prove it. Coming on in the 85th minute is not a "chance".
Ole kept playing McTominay over and over and over, from the first whistle to the last second of stoppage time and -- at the risk of offending anyone here who thinks otherwise -- McTominay was never United quality. I don't blame Ole for giving McTominay a run of 5-10 matches to show what he's all about, but he gave dozens and dozens of full matches and he consistently shat his pants. I don't have the stats handy so I'm not sure if this is a valid statement, but I seriously doubt Donny ever once got 3 straight starts and played the full 90+ minutes to prove that he's either shit, meh or mint.
I've only seen this excuse made for United players. The vast majority of the time, a player who's good enough slots in right away.Exactly. If you spend £40m on a player, then you have to give them at least a run of 4 or 5 games to test them. It can take players a year or so to adapt to a new league, but they never will if they never play.
Ten Hag was easing Donny into the team before he got injured (again).Ten Hag coming in and having no use for Donny and people are still blaming Ole? He didn't have enough then, he doesn't have enough now, Fred and McT were significantly more effective PL footballers, and that is why he didn't get games.
He was getting a few mins and was equally as anonymous as he had been pre Ten Hag.Ten Hag was easing Donny into the team before he got injured (again).
This takes us back to the “Donny must be shit in training” comment that has been made consistently here. Since none of us can watch Donny in training, it is fair to speculate that he is in fact shit in training and thus has never earned the right to be given a proper chance in competitive matches.From our perspective that is fair enough but Ole watched him every day in training and we have no idea what he saw there. Donny may well have been levels below his teammates in every practice, he might have consistently ignored instructions and wandered out of position in training matches. As fans we gauge the effectiveness of a player during those brief moments when they are playing a competitive game but a Manager has so much more information available. I don't think Ole would have kept Donny out of the side for any other reason than that he did not believe he was good enough and I don't equate not rating someone with treating them badly. It just sucks for Donny that he is not a very good player and moved to a club and a league that was above his level.
Lorient is newly promoted (though familiar with L1) and signing players left and right. Might still add more. Competitive environment for DvdB if so and no guarantee of getting played but maybe the emulation would do him good.
He's never going to prove he is shit, meh or mint really is he. We're into a third season of Sancho and we still can't really prove that, one can always spin things towards a particular view. Even if he got 10 games in a row it wouldn't neccessarily prove that and we would potentially end up compromising our season in the process because no manager looked at him as a player and personality they wanted to play consistently. That's the weird thing about this idea of a fair chance as if those chances just materialise by default, it's not as if he is completely detached from the selection process and he never got a chance because the managers were mean or something. He was part of that situation and I don't think that gets highlighted enough. It's as if he was just supposed to play. Multiple people came to the same conclusion so what is the likely cause of that and who is the common denominator?You can't prove you're gold or shit if you're not given a proper chance to prove it. Coming on in the 85th minute is not a "chance".
Ole kept playing McTominay over and over and over, from the first whistle to the last second of stoppage time and -- at the risk of offending anyone here who thinks otherwise -- McTominay was never United quality. I don't blame Ole for giving McTominay a run of 5-10 matches to show what he's all about, but he gave dozens and dozens of full matches and he consistently shat his pants. I don't have the stats handy so I'm not sure if this is a valid statement, but I seriously doubt Donny ever once got 3 straight starts and played the full 90+ minutes to prove that he's either shit, meh or mint.
Multiple managers have decided he isn’t worth giving a chance to. That includes a manager who only wants to sign players that are Dutch or have played for him before. At some point you just have to accept that those that see him up close think he’s shite. And that directly correlates with everything he’s shown on the pitch. There’s no great mystery here. Except for why we signed him to begin with.You can't prove you're gold or shit if you're not given a proper chance to prove it. Coming on in the 85th minute is not a "chance".
Ole kept playing McTominay over and over and over, from the first whistle to the last second of stoppage time and -- at the risk of offending anyone here who thinks otherwise -- McTominay was never United quality. I don't blame Ole for giving McTominay a run of 5-10 matches to show what he's all about, but he gave dozens and dozens of full matches and he consistently shat his pants. I don't have the stats handy so I'm not sure if this is a valid statement, but I seriously doubt Donny ever once got 3 straight starts and played the full 90+ minutes to prove that he's either shit, meh or mint.
It’s interesting that, when you look at the playing time, and particularily when you look at full 90 min’s, above 45 mins or consecutive chances, Ole seems to have given Van de Beek more and better chances than both Rangnick and Ten Hag (counting before the injury), his former mentor to Success also being the one spending much of the budget on a similar positioned player and deeming him surplus.You can't prove you're gold or shit if you're not given a proper chance to prove it. Coming on in the 85th minute is not a "chance".
Ole kept playing McTominay over and over and over, from the first whistle to the last second of stoppage time and -- at the risk of offending anyone here who thinks otherwise -- McTominay was never United quality. I don't blame Ole for giving McTominay a run of 5-10 matches to show what he's all about, but he gave dozens and dozens of full matches and he consistently shat his pants. I don't have the stats handy so I'm not sure if this is a valid statement, but I seriously doubt Donny ever once got 3 straight starts and played the full 90+ minutes to prove that he's either shit, meh or mint.
Weirdest take ive read on here for a while. Does that mean Fergie also fecked over a ton of players he never played? Donny was given his chance by Ole and also Ralph. ETH hasnt even that. All 3 managers are sign of him not being good enough at all. Also, players can be out of favor for certain managers and then start to play when a change happend. Donny doesnt even have the mentality nor quality for that. Even that proves he at the wrong club. Not a fragile player, but a fragile mentality, and thats even worseFukking hell, Ole did in fact treat Donny badly. We all kept our eyes on the minute clock and on cue, Donny would be subbed on in the 85th minute.
We’re all free to believe he’s shite, but he was in fact never given a run of matches to integrate into the squad. And then of course we all know about Ole’s last season when Ralf took over, when everyone fell apart.
The real problem is that with Bruno we never needed Donny, who simply isn’t as good as Bruno, a player who has a perfect fitness record and that we’ve come to rely heavily on. Time for Donny to go, but we fukked him over by buying him and then hardly ever playing him.
All true I do agree 100% but what a bizarre transferI fundamentally disagree witht that statement. You don't have a right to play if you are not good enough. Ole didn't mistreat or verbally abuse Donny, didn't steal his lunch money or sleep with his wife. Ole should have played a shite player so as not to hurt his feelings? Donny was not worth playing, next to him McTominay is Roy Keane and Paul Scholes rolled into one.
Couldn't agree more.Multiple managers have decided he isn’t worth giving a chance to. That includes a manager who only wants to sign players that are Dutch or have played for him before. At some point you just have to accept that those that see him up close think he’s shite. And that directly correlates with everything he’s shown on the pitch. There’s no great mystery here. Except for why we signed him to begin with.
I agree that players do adapt pretty quickly usually, but there are some notable exceptions like Drogba, Evra and Xhaka.I've only seen this excuse made for United players. The vast majority of the time, a player who's good enough slots in right away.
I don't remember Fergie spunking £40m on a player and then barely playing them. It was a terrible signing that Ole should never have said yes to if he wasn't going to even use him. It's not like we couldn't have used that money to seriously strengthen other areas of the pitch.Weirdest take ive read on here for a while. Does that mean Fergie also fecked over a ton of players he never played? Donny was given his chance by Ole and also Ralph. ETH hasnt even that. All 3 managers are sign of him not being good enough at all. Also, players can be out of favor for certain managers and then start to play when a change happend. Donny doesnt even have the mentality nor quality for that. Even that proves he at the wrong club. Not a fragile player, but a fragile mentality, and thats even worse
Comparing Sir Alex Ferguson to Ole Gunnar Solksjaer as managers is officially the weirdest, most bizarre take I have ever read here. Had Ole won one PL title, fine, you can have a conversation about his management ability compared to Sir Alex, but in reality there is no comparing the managerial talents of the two men.Weirdest take ive read on here for a while. Does that mean Fergie also fecked over a ton of players he never played? Donny was given his chance by Ole and also Ralph. ETH hasnt even that. All 3 managers are sign of him not being good enough at all. Also, players can be out of favor for certain managers and then start to play when a change happend. Donny doesnt even have the mentality nor quality for that. Even that proves he at the wrong club. Not a fragile player, but a fragile mentality, and thats even worse
Where did I compare them as managers? Weird take. They were both managers here, one shit one legendary. We can compare how they did transfers however. Ole played Donny more than any other MU manager btw.Comparing Sir Alex Ferguson to Ole Gunnar Solksjaer as managers is officially the weirdest, most bizarre take I have ever read here. Had Ole won one PL title, fine, you can have a conversation about his management ability compared to Sir Alex, but in reality there is no comparing the managerial talents of the two men.
Price tag is difficult to compare, but Kleberson took a huge chunk out of the transfer budget. We could mention Djemba-Djemba and Bellion. According to your logic Fergie ruined these players.I agree that players do adapt pretty quickly usually, but there are some notable exceptions like Drogba, Evra and Xhaka.
I don't remember Fergie spunking £40m on a player and then barely playing them. It was a terrible signing that Ole should never have said yes to if he wasn't going to even use him. It's not like we couldn't have used that money to seriously strengthen other areas of the pitch.
Yeah, no manager has wanted him really. That 2018 - 19 season with Ajax promised so much but it's a long time ago. The move has destroyed his international career too. He was playing a bit more until he got the injury last season, he should be a rotation option for Mason Mount or even Bruno.Got the impression that like a few of LVG's signings, and like Fred in Jose's third season , DVB wasn't bought with Ole's full backing. The club probably said it's him or no one else and you're probably not going to turn a player down over bringing no one else in.
A weird signing. Bet he massively regrets coming here too.
To play tiddlywinks?Let's see if Bayern will take him or not.
Villa should have gone down in 2020 then we would have got Grealish for low priceI agree that players do adapt pretty quickly usually, but there are some notable exceptions like Drogba, Evra and Xhaka.
I don't remember Fergie spunking £40m on a player and then barely playing them. It was a terrible signing that Ole should never have said yes to if he wasn't going to even use him. It's not like we couldn't have used that money to seriously strengthen other areas of the pitch.
I couldn't be arsed to find and compare the minutes he got with Ten Hag and previous managers, but seems to me like that a few weeks before his injury Ten Hag was giving him opportunities. I was under the impression that if he didn't get injured Donny would get more minutes if he did well.He was getting a few mins and was equally as anonymous as he had been pre Ten Hag.
