Draft About Nothing - QF: EAP vs Physiocrat

[Šjor Bepo]

vs

Edgar
Formation: WM / 3-2-2-3

Tactics: Compact defence, dominant midfield and smooth linkup/transition to overwhelming attack.

Writeup: Tl;dr version

Compact Defence with complementary and versatile players. Balanced offence and enough bodies in middle to dominate opposition. Complimentary offence with all players capable of creating for others and scoring for themselves.

Writeup: Full version

Defence:

..........Graeme Souness......Sergio Busquets.......
Cesare Maldini...Matthias Sammer...Berti Vogts
------------------------------ Lev Yashin --------------------------

Yashin the greatest GK of all time (or #2 depends on whom you speak to) mans the goal. Highly athletic and imposing keeper with exceptional reflexes. He was also the first sweeper keeper comfortable off the line and able to start attacks from the back.

A compact defensive line with 3 well rounded and versatile players. Briegel and Vogts will be predominantly a defensive fullback duo with Sammer moving between attack and defence as the game dictates. Both Briegel and Vogts have experience playing fullback on respective sides help the setup greatly.

Souness has so much more in his arsenal than just a midfield thug.There are ample instances of him controlling the pace of the game with his tactical acumen and simple passes. He brings the physicality and steel to the midfield, but with intelligence to temper it with. Busquets is master at reading the game, intercepting passes and recycling possession. Between their complimentary skills, they provide a tight shield to support the back 3.

All of my attackers also have good reputation of dropping back to support in defensive phase of game.

Attack:

...Zagallo......Torres.....Kalle.....
........Liedholm.....Xavi.............

With Sammer, Souness and Busquets providing a stable platform to launch attacks themselves or assist in transitiong from the deep, out attack has lots of options to score. No introduction needed for Xavi. Liedholm is a lot more direct player than Iniesta, but has lots of overlaps too...high workrate, ability to drop back and orchestrate from the deep, defensive contribution etc.

Zagallo was a technical forward with high defensive workrate. His movement would open up spaces for Liedholm and Shearer. Shearer is a prolific traditional English, big, strong CF. Capable and well rounded, he can score and set up for others. As a target man to bulldoze CBs he was prolific in scoring, but also dropped back and opened space for other with his movement. No intro needed for Kalle. A double Balon d'Or who's comfortable at as both center and right forward completes the attack.


Physio
Formation - Asymmetric 4231

Defensive Line - Normal

Marking - Zonal

Style - attacking and reasonably direct. Kopa playing as the creative 10 to feed the GOAT finisher Muller. Oblitas, Peru's greatest winger, providing classic wingplay whilst Blohkin has a freeish role drifting in as overlapped by Thielen. Overath as the industrious midfield playmaker and Batista the shield. Eric Abidal will be a the defensive left back. Tresor and Montero as a sweeper, stopper combo with a the Italy legend Zoff between the sticks.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

good luck @Edgar Allan Pillow @Physiocrat

 

[Physiocrat]

I don't see EAP's side as complementary. Busquets and Xavi should be in a completely different side. Whilst Xavi played well in the realtively direct Spain 2008 side it was only relatively direct to then Spanish style. It was certainly not direct relative to what Zagallo, Kalle and Liedholm were used to. Even if Xavi and Busquets were replaced having a back three without wing backs against quality wingers is really a recipe for trouble especially Briegel who was suspect against tricky dribblers like Blokhin - I see this a potential good route to goal.

The best old school formation that was pulled off was by Annanohmos as he attempted to adapt it to a more modern setup. The wing-backs were really just wide defensive full-backs who shifted to LCB and RCB in possession whilst the original LCB and RCB move up into the DM roles (he had Voronin and Rikjaard do this) so the CMs could move into the AM position.

 

[harms]

More info on Oblitas and Thielen please? @Physiocrat

 

[Enigma_87]

Defence:

..........Graeme Souness......Sergio Busquets.......
Cesare Maldini...Matthias Sammer...Berti Vogts
------------------------------ Lev Yashin --------------------------

Physio will face a real uphill battle against 12 man EAP team there. I know you had to use all your players till round 2 but this is a bit OTT.

 

[Physiocrat]

More info on Oblitas and Thielen please? @Physiocrat

Will respond in the morning. Got much busier this evening with work than expected.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I don't see EAP's side as complementary. Busquets and Xavi should be in a completely different side. Whilst Xavi played well in the realtively direct Spain 2008 side it was only relatively direct to then Spanish style.

Honestly this boggles me. Tactics aside, Xavi and Busquets are brilliant players on their own. I'm not recreating that Barca set up nor am I playing a uber-possession setup. I certainly do see anything less than perfect in positional roles for Xavi and Busquets. Their chemistry would work well outside of that Barca set up too.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Physiocrat

Did Blokhin play on right?
Transfermarkt lists Thielen as Right Winger?

Imo both Blokhin and Thielen are not in peak and playing backup position. Perhaps you call this asymetric, but its more like very sub-optimal wing.

Also your midfield is likely to get outnumbered and I don't see them able to impress in this game.

 

[green_smiley]

Blokhin can play either wings

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Think EAP wins that battle on quality.

I am not a fan of Sammer in this setup though. Leaves an already high risk setup even more wide open at the back. Like him in a Xavi team, but really belongs in a 4 man defense.

On physio, the 2 players carried forward make it tough to be attracted to the team. One of them should have played the game against Iso. Littbarski looked so good in that team in last round and one can feel his absence here.

Could have also just held on to Cannavaro in hindsight, if he knew the punishments by @Šjor Bepo were hardly punishments for getting only 1 player. Kopa and Overath together probably are not needed anyways and Littbarski could have started instead.

 

[harms]

Did Blokhin play on right?

 

[Physiocrat]

More info on Oblitas and Thielen please? @Physiocrat

Oblitas earned 63 caps for Peru scoring 11 goals. He was a tricky winger with a good cross and high work rate. I watched a decent amount of him during the 1978 game against Brazil. He tracked back and defended well and was a good outlet on the counter-attack. I can't add more about his style of play unfortunately because all the bios I have been through focus more on who he played for etc rather than his attributes. He is though regards as Peru's best ever left-winger.

Thielen began as a right-winger but played at right-back in the 1971 Der Pokal final. I suspect he moved back to right-back towards the end of his career like Valencia did. He is in Koln's Hall of Fame appearing 294 times and he does have a couple of German national caps.

 

[Physiocrat]

@Physiocrat

Did Blokhin play on right?
Transfermarkt lists Thielen as Right Winger?

Imo both Blokhin and Thielen are not in peak and playing backup position. Perhaps you call this asymetric, but its more like very sub-optimal wing.

Also your midfield is likely to get outnumbered and I don't see them able to impress in this game.

As pointed out above Thielen plays RB in the 1971 Der Pokal final and I suspect he moved to right-back towards the end of his career. Blokhin was never a traditional winger but rather a more of a wide forward. With Blohkin drifting in and out causing lots of problems for Briegel, it allows a lot of overlap opportunities for him.

I really don't see why a 6, 8 and 10 would be outnumbered in midfield. As Balu points out a midfield three is not really outnumbered by a midfield 4 in a square.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/wc-...u-vs-thisistheone.381969/page-2#post-14790893

 

[Physiocrat]

On physio, the 2 players carried forward make it tough to be attracted to the team. One of them should have played the game against Iso. Littbarski looked so good in that team in last round and one can feel his absence here.

Could have also just held on to Cannavaro in hindsight, if he knew the punishments by @Šjor Bepo were hardly punishments for getting only 1 player. Kopa and Overath together probably are not needed anyways and Littbarski could have started instead.

I wasn't expecting Iso to field such a weak side, if he had started Seedorf it would have been much closer. Kopa adds much more passing ability and takes the load of Overath to some extent. Littbarski did a job as an attacking AM but with two dribblers already I could use with more passing ability which should really tear up that shaky defence of EAP (not in quality just in overall setup)

Honestly this boggles me. Tactics aside, Xavi and Busquets are brilliant players on their own. I'm not recreating that Barca set up nor am I playing a uber-possession setup. I certainly do see anything less than perfect in positional roles for Xavi and Busquets. Their chemistry would work well outside of that Barca set up too.

Both excelled in heavy possession orientated setups. I'm pretty sure Xavi was wanting out under Rikjaard but when Guardiola came in he convinced him to stay. Your side is much closer to Rikjaard's style than Guardiola.

I would again point out that your defence his highly suspect against my wingers. Either your LCB or RCB will be drawn wide leaving a lot of space in the middle for Ger Muller to exploit. He will have far more joy than Shearer who is match up well physically with Montero and Tresor.

 

[Gio]

I like the use of Blokhin on the right. I imagine in the modern game (not that Lobanovskiy's Kyiv were anything but modern) that he'd potentially play cutting in from the right side. Nice to see Oblitas too get a run out. A lot hinges here on how well EAP's defence manages that front three. Briegel and Vogts look like good fits for their direct opponents and fine choices for their very specific jobs in this system. I'm not sure about how Sammer and Muller face up though, what do others think?

One of the best designed 3-2-2-3s I've seen on here from @Edgar Allan Pillow - the balance is impressive.

 

[Physiocrat]

A lot hinges here on how well EAP's defence manages that front three. Briegel and Vogts look like good fits for their direct opponents and fine choices for their very specific jobs in this system. I'm not sure about how Sammer and Muller face up though, what do others think?

Briegel and Vogts are great fits for this system but I against a team with real width I think it is very risky. Against a diamond or Christmas tree I can see it working really well but not against two wingers.

I don't really remember Sammer for his ultra concentration in keeping tabs on a deadly striker. It's not really what he's best at. He is in a very limited role here unless EAP is going 235

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I am not a fan of Sammer in this setup though. Leaves an already high risk setup even more wide open at the back. Like him in a Xavi team, but really belongs in a 4 man defense.

I'm not sure about how Sammer and Muller face up though, what do others think?

I don't really remember Sammer for his ultra concentration in keeping tabs on a deadly striker.

I've watched quite a bit of Sammer over the years. He makes the runs into opponents box often, but never counted as a liability for making them or for leaving spaces he can't cover back.

The setup doesn't necessarily need a libero....but that shouldn't mean Sammer can't fit in here.

His peak was on a back 3 (excl wingback) and here between two excellent covering sidebacks he'll be in his element.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I'm not sure about how Sammer and Muller face up though, what do others think?

Fits wise, I like Sammer against Muller. That would be one tasty battle and I wouldn't put Sammer at a disadvantage.

He makes the runs into opponents box often, but never counted as a liability for making them or for leaving spaces he can't cover back.

The problem is on the counters, the ball travels faster than the players and there would always be cases where Sammer is caught up field leaving a huge hole. Neither of Busquets or Souness are the kind to fallback into defense and do a great job when he goes ahead as well. Maybe you really need to get someone like Desailly there in midfield for this to look less of a liability on the counters

The setup doesn't necessarily need a libero....but that shouldn't mean Sammer can't fit in here.

Agreed, if you are indeed playing him in a limited role, he should be alright, but that is vastly under using him.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

The problem is on the counters, the ball travels faster than the players and there would always be cases where is caught up field leaving a huge hole. Neither of Busquets or Souness are the kind to fallback into defense and do a great job when he goes ahead as well.

Fair points.

In a WM, the role required for halfbacks doesn't get them extended as much as in a modern 4231 perhaps. With Liedholm and Xavi ahead, I really don't see Souness and Xavi moving that far ahead to be caught out of possession on counters. And tactics aside both are quality players and have done enough roles to not let themselves be caught out.

As to opponent, neither fullback is really what I'd consider attacking. One got converted after slowing down at end of career and Abidal is more of a side CB than attacking. Blokhin is also a inverted winger preferring to cut in. All his threats would come from the middle where I have bodies and upper hand in numbers.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

As to opponent, neither fullback is really what I'd consider attacking. One got converted after slowing down at end of career and Abidal is more of a side CB than attacking. Blokhin is also a inverted winger preferring to cut in. All his threats would come from the middle where I have bodies and upper hand in numbers.

You have already won my vote mate. They were just general comments for improvements in reinforcements if you do go through.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

voted edgar but i really dont like that Souness - Busquets midfield

 

[Physiocrat]

Fair points.

In a WM, the role required for halfbacks doesn't get them extended as much as in a modern 4231 perhaps. With Liedholm and Xavi ahead, I really don't see Souness and Xavi moving that far ahead to be caught out of possession on counters. And tactics aside both are quality players and have done enough roles to not let themselves be caught out.

As to opponent, neither fullback is really what I'd consider attacking. One got converted after slowing down at end of career and Abidal is more of a side CB than attacking. Blokhin is also a inverted winger preferring to cut in. All his threats would come from the middle where I have bodies and upper hand in numbers.

You need one of Souness or Biscuits to drop back to make it a back four to make as solid as you need.

To say my threat is only central is absurd. Blokhin liked to cut in but we was hardly Mo Salah and can go both sides. Kopa also played RW for Real so can drift wide right as Blokhin cuts in. Valencia had slowed down when he had originally been converted to a RB still could get forward and provide width. Your back three are going be pulled wide and Der Bomber will score.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

voted edgar but i really dont like that Souness - Busquets midfield

Do you feel it's worse than Netto there?

 

[harms]

Do you feel it's worse than Netto there?

Netto is a brilliant fit — he's better suited to the left and he's a natural fit to Xavi/Busquets passing game, while also bringing a lot of defensive steel to midfield. Souness is just so different in terms of his mentality.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Do you feel it's worse than Netto there?

Id prefer Netto Bus midfield, harsh on Souness as he is a great player but the other 2 fit much better to the possession theme.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Netto is a brilliant fit — he's better suited to the left and he's a natural fit to Xavi/Busquets passing game, while also bringing a lot of defensive steel to midfield. Souness is just so different in terms of his mentality.

Id prefer Netto Bus midfield, harsh on Souness as he is a great player but the other 2 fit much better to the possession theme.

Agree on both accounts.

 

[Physiocrat]

Well played @Edgar Allan Pillow

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Well played @Edgar Allan Pillow

Good team you too. If you had played Thielen in last game, it'd have been a different outcome.

 

[Physiocrat]

Good team you too. If you had played Thielen in last game, it'd have been a different outcome.

I didn't realise he was mainly a right-winger until yesterday. I needed a right-back and he was the only one I could afford in the Beckenbauer pool. I assumed that since he played at RB in that game he always played there. I missed seeing that he scored at a rate of nearly 1 in 3

 

[Jim Beam]

A bit late. Would vote for Edgar. Mixes his teams and tactics so much, but this is one of his finest works that I've seen.

And in a draft where @Šjor Bepo/@Pat_Mustard are constantly trying to screw him, no less! Well done.

 

[Moby]

And in a draft where @Šjor Bepo/@Pat_Mustard are constantly trying to screw him, no less! Well done.

Clearly slacking on that front. Need to buck up and do some serious damage!