Draft About Nothing - QF: Green_Smiley vs Moby

[Šjor Bepo]

vs

Smiley
Formation: 4-3-1-2

Tactics:
Team built on solid defensive foundation, thus allowing attacking players freedom to express themselves on the pitch

• Buffon, one of the best GK of all time, is in between the posts
• Central defense is marshaled by Shesternyov and Stam, a perfect combo of sweeper-stopper
• Two attacking full-backs in Reuter and Nilton Santos. Both are defensively resilience and possess great tactical awareness, while also capable of marauding forward and joining attack

World-class midfielders with nice blend of silk and steel

• Redondo as holding midfielder, to screen the back four, while also play out the ball from the back with his vision and passing
• Giles as center midfielder. Diminutive, fleet-footed and quick-thinking, he is tasked to probe the midfield, snuffing out opposition attacks and building moves. Belied a combative streak, he is not afraid to get stuck into challenges as well
• Keane as defensive box-to-box midfielder. His overwhelming presence on the pitch will help to win the midfield battle
• Iniesta as attacking midfielder. His dribbling, first touch and close control are second-to-none, and always rises to the big occasion

Djorkaeff as second striker, with license to roam and drift out wide. He is playing just behind Seeler, who boasts an impressive goal-scoring record. Seeler provides a much-needed presence upfront, capable of linking with his attacking teammates, while also strong in air despite his height


Moby
Key Highlights:

• Star studded midfield unit with the best player on the pitch in Michel Platini running the game with two other stalwart CMs in Robbo and Suarez bringing in a plethora of tenacity and workrate, defensive nous and the ability to break play with a juggernaut going forward.
• Suarez takes up his deeper incarnation here, controlling the game from the middle of the park and pulling the strings, while his dynamic approach to the game complements Platini and serves as a powerful creative unit in the middle. While Robson's tireless all action contribution on both ends of the pitch makes this an incredibly balanced unit on and off the ball.
• Continuing with the hard working and direct style of play, the kind in which the likes of Platini excelled, the two wingers out wide are workhorses in their own right. Both will be providing a lot of energy and shield down the flanks, and Schurrle will be tasked with pressing Nilton throughout the game using his energy and stamina and not letting him get any passes forward.
• The left flank is devastating going forward, with Roberto Carlos overlapping Hristo Stoichkov, with the Bulgarian going inside and providing a goal threat like he did at his prime and Carlos whipping in unstoppable crosses and cut backs.
• The defensive unit sees the addition of arguably the greatest right back of all time in Djalma Santos. A powerhouse for Brazil in their world cup wins in late 50s and early 60s, Djalma is one of the greatest defenders of all time and is expected to massively bolster the backline.
• With the kind of creativity flowing through the team, Vava is the ideal striker to lead the line. Top scorer of the 1962 World Cup and a vital fixture of the conquering Brazil WC winning teams, he provided a great foil to Pelé back then allowing him to both create and score freely, and he is expected to combine similarly with Platini here.
• Quality goal threat in the team, with all of Stoichkov, Vava and Platini being proven goalscorers having shown their pedigree in the biggest of tournaments like the World Cups, Euros and European Cups, without counting out the likes of Robbo smashing one in from distance, or Carlos getting on the scoresheet with a thunderous free kick. The same can't be said of the opposition who were said to lack the firepower in front of goal to swing the game in their favour.
• Seeler has great aerial ability, however, in Santamaria and Lucio, I have two brilliant headers of the ball which would be a very good counter to the German's prowess in the air and help in curbing quite a bit of the sole goal threat that exists in that team.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@green_smiley @Moby good luck

 

[harms]

We have to remember that this is Vava who 51 goal in his 20 years long career But seriously, he has his hands full — that's a brutal central core by @green_smiley, Stam & Shesternoyv will outrun, outjump and outpower anyone. I fancy Seeler's chances more.

But then, anyone from that Stoichkov/Platini/Robson/Suarez supporting unit can get a goal. And Roberto Carlos + Stoichkov will be a tough challenge for Reuter, even with a significant cover from Keane & Shesternyov, that's a match-winning flank right there.

Also, Keane vs Robson

 

[Moby]

But then, anyone from that Stoichkov/Platini/Robson/Suarez supporting unit can get a goal. And Roberto Carlos + Stoichkov will be a tough challenge for Reuter, even with a significant cover from Keane & Shesternyov, that's a match-winning flank right there.

That's exactly the point here harms and your post captures it quite well.

This is a criticism that was valid for GS team in R1 as well, that the goal threat is fairly limited to Seeler, who himself would usually be at his best alongside someone who is good off the ball and can profit from his aerial knock downs or link up play. He has since removed Rivera who was the creative supply line ( I know Iniesta is there but Rivera would be someone who would provide more direct assists as compared to Andres). Seeler is against Lucio and Santamaria here, two aerially supreme defenders and with them not having that much of a threat from elsewhere, they can concentrate on shutting down Seeler - which will highly dent their goalscoring output.

On the other hand, while Vava was still a WC top scorer and has a good enough goal record throughout his career as the central striker, he has one of the greatest goalscoring #10s in Platini behind him, so for Vava a lot of his job will revolve around dragging the CBs around creating space for Platini or Stoichkov to bomb into and get the goals.

But a much larger goal threat in my team really contrasts with the lack of the same in GS team and that's a big advantage to have. Platini in particular who top scored in the brutal 80s Serie A, and has a similar presence to Boniek in Stoichkov here who will selflessly work hard to create chances for him, I don't see him being stopped.

 

[Moby]

Apart from that, I am not a big fan of that diamond. Keane played in a midfield 4 with as traditional wingers as you can ever imagine, and his game was very much vertical and at the heart of the game, while in a diamond you require CMs who are comfortable out wide, can provide width and defend against teams with width, like mine here.

I've never seen Keane or Scholes as good fits in a diamond, and I can say the same for Giles who played in similar traditional setups. It will be very congested in the middle there with very little presence out wide, which will get murdered especially against my left flank with Roberto Carlos and Stoichkov attacking a hapless Reuter on that side.

The lack of width will be a issue both going forward and in defense for them, and with me sporting a very strong central core consisting of Robson, Suarez and Platini, there will be no shortage of battling out in that area and not letting the opposition dominate whatsoever.

Moreover, Giles and Redondo are a bit redundant together, as both are primarily playmakers, having someone with a better engine, wide presence and defensive nous would have been better in that setup. In the end, it's not very ideal.

 

[Moby]

Also, Keane vs Robson

If this game doesn't get the attention of @BeforeKeanetherewasRobson , I don't know what will!

 

[Moby]

I would also like to point out that while that midfield unit on individual quality of course has great names, there's a contrast in the style of play of those midfielders and the particular schools they come from. Iniesta is as core a tiki taka player as you can imagine. Far more than Xavi at that and throughout their time at Barca, if there was anyone I thought would suffer the most if taken out of that system, it was Iniesta. Rivera would have been a better fit with the rest of the midfield here. But I struggle to see a theme in which Inesta and Keane can gel at the best of their games.

I'm not trying to portray that my midfield was born and brought up together, but I generally try to add some commonality in my core players (even in a mental draft like this) and it's fair to say that all of Platini, Suarez and Robson would thrive in a direct all action style of play, where all of them love to kick start attacks after getting the ball and all are technically superb to create excellent transitions.

In the grand scheme of things, I can see my midfield unit providing a lot more impact with the support from out wide as well.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Moreover, Giles and Redondo are a bit redundant together, as both are primarily playmakers, having someone with a better engine, wide presence and defensive nous would have been better in that setup. In the end, it's not very ideal.

I haven't read the rest of your posts in detail, but if you think of it, it essentially carries the essence of the Carri Magique

You have -
Redondo in the Fernandez role (essentially DM cum DLP)
Giles in the Giresse role (secondary playmaker)
Keane in the Tigana role (B2B with good defensive responsibilities)
Iniesta in the Platini role (the primary playmaker)

I like it. I don't like Nilton in a diamond as usual, but if GS does go through, the simple fix is to move Iniesta to the Giresse role (a replacement I have been a huge fan of as @Jim Beam would ascertain) and get a Goat No.10 like Platini. With Iniesta there, also solves the Nilton problem.

Apart from that and Djorkaeff, I really like GS's team but I do agree that goal scoring options is a big issue with Iniesta not capable of pitching in with many.

I'll post on your team a little later.

 

[harms]

Iniesta is as core a tiki taka player as you can imagine. Far more than Xavi at that and throughout their time at Barca, if there was anyone I thought would suffer the most if taken out of that system, it was Iniesta.

It's unprovable, but I strongly disagree here. I'm pretty sure that Iniesta can play in any modern formation if he's not put as a defensive left winger (and even then he'd probably excel).

 

[Moby]

I haven't read the rest of your posts in detail, but if you think of it, it essentially carries the essence of the system Platini excelled in.

You have -
Redondo in the Fernandez role (essentially DM cum DLP)
Giles in the Giresse role (secondary playmaker)
Keane in the Tigana role (B2B with good defensive responsibilities)
Iniesta in the Platini role (the primary playmaker)

I'm not sure why you have compared GS team to the Platini carre magiques, has he mentioned somewhere that he is trying to replicate that? If not then unfair to steer the discussion in the direction contradicting the manager's views.

Either ways, those comparisons are way off. Iniesta and Platini and poles apart in terms of their style of play. Giles isn't playing alongside Iniesta, he is a wide CM in a diamond here, Redondo and Fernandez again couldn't be more different in terms of their playing style.

It's a very different setup.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Iniesta is as core a tiki taka player as you can imagine. Far more than Xavi at that and throughout their time at Barca, if there was anyone I thought would suffer the most if taken out of that system, it was Iniesta.

I'd honestly disagree with this. Would you downgrade Messi for similar reason because his non tiki-taka NT performances have been quite not upto his Barca ones? Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and Busquets are all classic players on their own and has enough talent to be world class at their prime.

 

[Moby]

It's unprovable, but I strongly disagree here. I'm pretty sure that Iniesta can play in any modern formation if he's not put as a defensive left winger (and even then he'd probably excel).

It's obviously hypothetical, but with the lack of evidence to contradict the argument along with his style of play which (imo) required a certain amount of players on the same wavelength, with a possession based core in order for him to excel. That's not to say he will disappear in other systems, but with the level of competition here we have to look at what circumstances really made them provide their best and it's a fair argument to say that he was at his best in the tiki taka system, and unlike Xavi or Messi, for me he was someone who absolutely screamed tiki taka.

 

[Gio]

I would also like to point out that while that midfield unit on individual quality of course has great names, there's a contrast in the style of play of those midfielders and the particular schools they come from. Iniesta is as core a tiki taka player as you can imagine. Far more than Xavi at that and throughout their time at Barca, if there was anyone I thought would suffer the most if taken out of that system, it was Iniesta. Rivera would have been a better fit with the rest of the midfield here. But I struggle to see a theme in which Inesta and Keane can gel at the best of their games.

While Rivera is a lovely shout there, Iniesta has shown sufficient flexibility to shine in the more direct and counter-based Luis Enrique Barcelona side, whilst being fairly adaptable to different positions across various versions of Spain 2006-2016.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I'm not sure why you have compared GS team to the Platini carre magiques, has he mentioned somewhere that he is trying to replicate that? If not then unfair to steer the discussion in the direction contradicting the manager's views.

Fair enough that he hasn't mentioned the system, but his OP to me seems to indicate the roles of midfielders are pretty similar. At least that is how I saw it. Below is what I am referencing.

• Redondo as holding midfielder, to screen the back four, while also play out the ball from the back with his vision and passing
• Giles as center midfielder. Diminutive, fleet-footed and quick-thinking, he is tasked to probe the midfield, snuffing out opposition attacks and building moves. Belied a combative streak, he is not afraid to get stuck into challenges as well
• Keane as defensive box-to-box midfielder. His overwhelming presence on the pitch will help to win the midfield battle
• Iniesta as attacking midfielder. His dribbling, first touch and close control are second-to-none, and always rises to the big occasion

Either ways, those comparisons are way off. Iniesta and Platini and poles apart in terms of their style of play. Giles isn't playing alongside Iniesta, he is a wide CM in a diamond here, Redondo and Fernandez again couldn't be more different in terms of their playing style.

It's a very different setup.

I don't agree with this mate. It doesn't have to be a like for like remake player styles wise. Structurally and chemistry wise, it struck a chord with me in the lines of that French system. Maybe it doesn't with others

 

[Moby]

I'd honestly disagree with this. Would you downgrade Messi for similar reason because his non tiki-taka NT performances have been quite not upto his Barca ones? Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and Busquets are all classic players on their own and has enough talent to be world class at their prime.

Replied on the same above. Between Messi, Xavi and Iniesta, Messi is by far the one who would easily slot in any system whatsoever literally and has actually won the Champions League under Enrique which was a pure counter attacking setup with MSN running riot. Xavi was excellent in that Euro 2008 which wasn't exactly possession based, and while I would still like possession based setup for Xavi to be at his best, I can still see him as a direct playmaker especially if you see the no. of assists he racked up at his prime. He was happy to go direct when needed. Coming to Iniesta, he is the least likely to provide the same level of those performances in a completely different setup, and to my knowledge doesn't have similar credentials as the other two to disprove this either.

Again, it's not to say he will be useless here, but the fact that he loved having players on the same wavelength is a big part of his game, and I struggle to see someone like Keane being on that same wavelength. This is always a risk of picking players from such a core system like that and it's hardly an unusual argument to say that they were far too used to that setting at their primes.

 

[Moby]

Fair enough that he hasn't mentioned the system, but his OP to me seems to indicate the roles of midfielders are pretty similar. At least that is how I saw it. Below is what I am referencing.






I don't agree with this mate. It doesn't have to be a like for like remake player styles wise. Structurally and chemistry wise, it struck a chord with me in the lines of that French system. Maybe it doesn't with others

Like mentioned above, that magic square was very much a super hard working counter attacking setup. And moreover, Platini's hybrid playmaker-goalscorer stature makes him stand out compared to other names and makes that setup work. As you said above, Iniesta is a lot closer to Giresse's role than Platini's. There's very few players who can replace Platini in that setup given the combination of playmaking and goalscoring that he possessed.

 

[Moby]

While Rivera is a lovely shout there, Iniesta has shown sufficient flexibility to shine in the more direct and counter-based Luis Enrique Barcelona side, whilst being fairly adaptable to different positions across various versions of Spain 2006-2016.

Yeah, he's obviously an elite player and he will have a big say on any game, but it's that final level of excellence that made him absolutely stand out on the pitch during the 09-12 years as compared to his other years. The reason I mentioned Rivera was due to the lack of goal threat in that, it needs someone who was a more direct passer and would create more clear cut chances for the opposition to increase the possibility of getting that elusive goal. With Iniesta's well known lack of direct output, it's something that wouldn't be 100% suitable as compared to Rivera who is an excellent playmaker in his own right.

Just a suggestion given he's on the bench.

 

[Moby]

Would also like to add that with the lack of width in the opposition team (Nilton would rarely cross the half way line so I am not expecting him to add to the numbers near my box while they attack), Djalma would be happy to tuck inside and close out that left channel of space Iniesta loves to work inside. Djalma was a highly intelligent and cerebral defender, who identified the danger zones very well and closed them out, so in this case he will take his chances and try to close out the option of Iniesta going out wide to open play.

 

[harms]

Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and Busquets are all classic players on their own and has enough talent to be world class at their prime.

He would be the one player I'd exclude from this. He's definitely dependable on the system — he can be good-to-great in other set ups, but Barca elevates him to completely another level. Xavi, Iniesta and Messi, in my opinion, can perform in pretty much any system.

 

[Physiocrat]

He would be the one player I'd exclude from this. He's definitely dependable on the system — he can be good-to-great in other set ups, but Barca elevates him to completely another level. Xavi, Iniesta and Messi, in my opinion, can perform in pretty much any system.

Not sure about Xavi. Didn't he want to leave at the end of the Rikjaard era but was convinced to stay by Guardiola when he took over? It doesn't sound like he enjoyed it under Rikjaard

 

[harms]

Not sure about Xavi. Didn't he want to leave at the end of the Rikjaard era but was convinced to stay by Guardiola when he took over? It doesn't sound like he enjoyed it under Rikjaard

Well, Xavi would be the most dependable on the system out of those three in my book, but then peak Xavi could mould any game to go the way he wants it to go. He wasn't that great under Rijkaard, but, to be fair to him, his renaissance began before Pep — it was in the summer of 2008, when he became the MVP of that year's Euros. So it looks more like a logical progression of a midfield player — most of them tend to peak a bit later.

 

[Physiocrat]

Well, Xavi would be the most dependable on the system out of those three in my book, but then peak Xavi could mould any game to go the way he wants it to go. He wasn't that great under Rijkaard, but, to be fair to him, his renaissance began before Pep — it was in the summer of 2008, when he became the MVP of that year's Euros. So it looks more like a logical progression of a midfield player — most of them tend to peak a bit later.

He does excel in Euro 2008 but that was hardly a direct side. Direct relative to what came later with Spain and Pep but much more possession orientated than any of Fergie's sides for example

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

My ordering of dependency on the system would be

Xavi > Messi > Iniesta

While Iniesta doesn't fit every system, I think of him as someone that would fit a lot of setups, especially the creative ones even without an emphasis on possession.

 

[Moby]

He does excel in Euro 2008 but that was hardly a direct side. Direct relative to what came later with Spain and Pep but much more possession orientated than any of Fergie's sides for example

The very first goal they scored in that tournament was right out of the classic Rooney Ronaldo counters under Fergie.

 

[Physiocrat]

The very first goal they scored in that tournament was right out of the classic Rooney Ronaldo counters under Fergie.

I'd have to watch that again but I think my main point stands

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

He does excel in Euro 2008 but that was hardly a direct side. Direct relative to what came later with Spain and Pep but much more possession orientated than any of Fergie's sides for example

I mean I wouldn't play them in a pure counter attacking side but in any normal and balanced team, they'd shine. Having a possession based setup is not really a mandatory necessity for the big three.

 

[Physiocrat]

I mean I wouldn't play them in a pure counter attacking side but in any normal and balanced team, they'd shine. Having a possession based setup is not really a mandatory necessity for the big three.

How do you think he would work in the Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez United side in place of Scholes?

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Alright, team Moby's turn.

I think Schurrle is a good fit for the system and that does a fair bit to cover for the lack of credentials in the company he is.

I dont think Vava is a good choice as the striker in this system. The setup is tailor made for someone like Suarez. With Vava, you'd want a lot of creators rather than wide forwards. Also dont think he is the kind to pull defenders away and create space for Platini to excel.

On the midfield, if I didn't like Falcao Tigana, I am not going to like Suarez Robson as well. Robson will have to play a really limited role here for this to work. While one can sell Suarez and Platini's workrate, I don't think it makes up for the lack of a pure holder. And then there is the opposition diamond which is tailor-made to take advantage of this.

Coming to the defense, it looks brilliant. The best part of the team IMO and that without even the shiniest of names. The balance is brilliant, especially with Djalma having all the freedom to tuck in and letting Carlos have fun.

It's obvious I like team GS more but then Moby's quality defense and the lack of a variety of scorers in GS's team doesn't allow me to vote for him.

So decided to call it a draw. A different kind of number 9 or a good holder in Moby's team or another good reliable scorer in GS's team alongside Seeler would have all sealed my vote one way or the other.

 

[Moby]

I dont think Vava is a good choice as the striker in this system. The setup is tailor made for someone like Suarez. With Vava, you'd want a lot of creators rather than wide forwards. Also dont think he is the kind to pull defenders away and create space for Platini to excel.

Yeah I obviously agree, Vava had to be played due to the rule of playing all players across two rounds.

While he's not as great a fit as Suarez, as I mentioned in the OP, he has the the experience of playing at the top level with a goalscoring #10 like Pele, and coordinating well enough to allow him the ability to both create and score for the team, hence I can see him still having an important job out there in order to drag defenders and allow Platini/Hristo the space to get into scoring positions. Also think he will form a very good partnership with Carlos in terms of getting at the end of his whipped crosses and cut-backs.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

If this game doesn't get the attention of @BeforeKeanetherewasRobson , I don't know what will!

Thanks

Redondo, Keane, Giles and Iniesta? All great players, seems a bit overly central. I see the arrows on the FBs but wonder if three of that four (probably any three tbh) would do just fine. Djorkaeff may drift but still looks like 5.5 of 6 players in a relatively small area

Robson, Miramontes and Platini seems a more natural fit (imo) and let's you have a wider player in Stoichkov (star).

Robson v Keane

We all grow up with heroes and sometimes it's difficult to separate fact from rose-tinted memories. But I think I do... for example, I loved Buchan but I know Stams better... Robson v Keane is different.

I watched both of them home and (in Robson's case) away. I'd still choose Robson partly because I lost count of the number of times he dragged average teams to incredible results. Muhren, Wilkins and Moses were no mugs but they weren't Beckham, Scholes, Giggs either. Similarly, it's one thing having a line behind you including players like Stam, Rio, Irwin and you can leave them alone ... it's another when the line includes Hogg, Moran and Albiston (who I liked) and having to help them out regularly. He was everywhere.

Robson was a better player (imo) and he did more for a team (imo) .... tracking back, leadership by positivity, brilliant in the air, goals. Maybe not as much of an issue here (given quality of teammates for both of them in this case) but formation works better (imo).

 

[green_smiley]

Just want to say that GSTQ is spot on on his assessment of both teams

 

[Jim Beam]

Iniesta is the needle type of player (something like Modrić, but his influence is in the final third of the pitch). Meaning he is perfectly capable of penetrating or carrying the ball forward on his own causing havoc around dangerous area being in a possession or not so possession based system. I would also go Busquets > Xavi > Iniesta in terms of "dependency".
Now, what definitely elevates his team is that elite goal scoring number 10 or a forward who will take advantage of him constantly breaching into the final third and creating that havoc (Seeler is fantastic, but in a way similiar in the sense you prefer someone with more goal scoring ability alongside him). Now, that I think of it, there are so many brilliant combos you could put alongside Iniesta that makes him pretty unique player the way I see it.

In the end, I like GS as a collective a bit more, but can't deny Moby's individual quality and Suarez - Robson in that midfield, which, while not perfect, can work just enough for that attack with the added bonus of Roberto Carlos to score more.

Considering the draft format both teams are highly impressive and it is certainly the strongest match up in this round. Cheerio.

 

[green_smiley]

Yes, Iniesta's flexibility is unreal. You could play him literally in any attacking role and he will still be world-class

 

[Moby]

Good game, @green_smiley . You had a very strong team and it was a lot closer than what the poll results show.

I was also nervous about this as I was forced to drop Suarez and Didi, both of whom would start otherwise and was hoping for the sheep to not get much heat. Turns out getting a sheep in an attacking position is quite less damaging than getting one in defense.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Another ridiculously one sided score line like the harms/Indy game

The Caf seems to be going through the Florentino Perez syndrome. As long as the midfield looks brilliant on the ball, who cares if we have a Makelele or not.

 

[harms]

The Caf seems to be going through the Florentino Perez syndrome. As long as the midfield looks brilliant on the ball, who cares if we have a Makelele or not.

You’re overdoing it. Not every team needs Makelele and no one had been posting midfields with, say, Pirlo and Xavi in it. Robson will have to be more defensive than usual here, but it’s not a non-functioning unit, he faced great midfields with Hoddle in a two ffs.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

You’re overdoing it. Not every team needs Makelele and no one had been posting midfields with, say, Pirlo and Xavi in it. Robson will have to be more defensive than usual here, but it’s not a non-functioning unit, he faced great midfields with Hoddle in a two ffs.

You are under playing it to be honest. Not a long while ago, you were religiously defending a Neeskens/Falcao double pivot.
While giving these examples, you forget that the midfields they are facing are filled with all time greats as well. A diamond with 4 great players on the ball no less.
I have shown with Robson's United teams in the past as well, he was paired with more defensive partners and wasn't the main defensive cog most of the times.

And I have never called it a non-functioning unit. Try and quote me if I have.

I hope none of the managers take this comment personally, I have been disappointed with this midfield chemistry thing for a few drafts now.

 

[Moby]

I hope none of the managers take this comment personally, I have been disappointed with this midfield chemistry thing for a few drafts now.

I guess you'd wanna close your eyes for my next game then.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I guess you'd wanna close your eyes for my next game then.

I can already sense what you are going for with Didi and I have been hoping for drawing you if we do go through. Not because of this midfield thing, but there is a particular setup we can only play against you.

 

[harms]

You are under playing it to be honest. Not a long while ago, you were religiously defending a Neeskens/Falcao double pivot.
While giving these examples, you forget that the midfields they are facing are filled with all time greats as well. A diamond with 4 great players on the ball no less.

Religiously defending?
Robson faced carre magique in inferior services ups and performed admirably.