Draft About Nothing - R1: Green_Smiley vs Himannv

With players at their career peak, who would win?

  • Total voters
    17
  • Poll closed .

Šjor Bepo

Wout is love, Wout is life; all hail Wout!
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vs
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Smiley
Formation: 4-2-1-3

Tactics:
Team built on solid defensive foundation, thus allowing attacking players freedom to express themselves on the pitch
  • Buffon, one of the best GK of all time, is in between the posts
  • Central defense is marshaled by Shesternyov and Stam, a perfect combo of sweeper-stopper
  • Two attacking full-backs in Reuter and Greig. Both are defensively resilience and possess great tactical awareness, while also capable of marauding forward and joining attack, especially Greig who scored 120 goals in 755 games for Rangers
Two defensive midfielders in Redondo and Bertini, primarily to provide cover for attacking teammates (Reuter, Greig, Rivera). Redondo is also tasked to play out the ball from the back, with his vision and passing

Rivera as playmaker. His elegance and creativity will unlock any defense, together with pace and dribbling of "Stan (Stanley Matthews)" Libuda, as well as flair and attacking skill of Iniesta

Seeler as striker, boasting impressive goal-scoring record. He provides a much-needed presence upfront, capable of linking with his attacking teammates, while also strong in air despite his height


H-man
Tactics

This is a rough representation of Rijkaard's Barcelona.

300px-Barcelona_vs_Arsenal_2006-05-17.svg.png


Of course, there are some obvious variations.

- Rocha plays closer to goal than Deco to add more threat.
- Perez is not as direct as Giuly, but he offers similar workrate, while also tracking back more than Giuly used to.
- Koeman can be a bit more attacking than Marquez was in the above setup.
- Villa, while not the same player as Eto'o, was probably the best striker in the world at his peak and he also showed he was capable of playing second fiddle to the likes of Messi, dropping wider to make space when required and dragging defenders out of position.

Ronaldinho

Peak Ronaldinho is the star of this setup. At his peak he was both devastating and probably the most entertaining player of all time to watch.

At his peak, he did whatever he wanted. He glided through defences with pace and skill, playing eye-of-the-needle passes for Eto'o and Giuly to get on the end of, and basically pulling off every trick in the book. He was also clever with his positioning, able to turn quickly with sudden acceleration to beat a player closer to him. He could also get physical and hold off players if he really wanted to.

At his peak, he was the best player in the world bar none (referenced by his Balon D'Or win in 2005).
 
Can people please provide more info on the lesser drafted players please? E.g. Which Perez is it and which Rocha?
 
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Himannv said:
Did Reuter actually play much at RB? Always thought he played as a winger or CM. Seems a tough ask to deal with peak Ronaldinho.
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I’d say that it was probably main position (maybe more of a wingback). Although he, like Briegel, for example, had played all over the pitch.
 
harms said:
I’d say that it was probably main position (maybe more of a wingback). Although he, like Briegel, for example, had played all over the pitch.
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Yeah. I'd say his physical peak was at right-back / right wing-back and he moved back to central midfield when injuries slowed him up a bit. Super athlete and pretty solid defensively, while the fact he was able to drop into the middle like that suggests to me that he had a bit more about him than your average flying full-back.
 
Is there another goalscorer besides Seeler there? It's usually good to partner him with someone who can make best use of his link up and aerial play. Don't see Iniesta or Rivera providing that, not sure about Libuda.
 
Pedro Rocha

Nicknamed the Executioner. He's a well-known Uruguayan player and somewhat of a legend who played in 4 World Cups. Plays as an attacking midfielder or a forward depending on the game situation. He's tall (6 feet) and great in the air, so he adds an aerial threat to the attack. He's not quick and like a more attacking version of Rivera from the footage I've seen of him. He's skillful and languid, but brilliant technically and adds a potent goal threat with key creative input.

In 1969 he was crowned Champion of the Supercup of Intercontinental Champions , being the scorer of the tournament with six goals in six games played.

In the 1966 Libertadores he scored key goals, such as two scores in one of the classics for the first phase, three scores in one of the classics for the second phase and goals in the finals against River Plate. In the final of the world against Real Madrid, he scored the first penalty goal in Spanish lands.

He also has an outstanding chapter with the Uruguayan national team, defending it in four World Cups (1962, 1966, 1970 and 1974) and a title in the 1967 Copa América with a goal in the final against Argentina.
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He's a video of him if you want to have a look.



The exquisitely skilful Uruguayan attacker Pedro Rocha was billed as the man most likely to deal an early blow to England's dreams of footballing glory in the opening match of the 1966 World Cup finals at Wembley.

In the event the contest was a drab, goalless stalemate which Alf Ramsey's men placed thankfully behind them on the way to confounding their countless doubters and lifting the Jules Rimet trophy on home soil that summer. But there were enough stylish touches from Rocha – who was prominent in Uruguay's progress to the quarter-finals, where they lost to West Germany – to underline his burgeoning reputation as a world-class talent.

Whether performing as a midfield link man or as an out-and-out striker, the Uruguayan moved with a casual and sinuous grace, at his best seeming to drift past opponents at will, displaying control, imagination and precision at the creative core of the team. There was dynamite as well as silk in the Rocha repertoire, and he was capable of erupting suddenly and explosively, delivering powerful shots with either foot. His critics accused him of slowing the play unduly, but if his style could seem languid, still it was a delight to the eye.

Having entered the senior game with Penarol as a 17-year-old in 1959, Rocha soon hit the heights, excelling as the Montevideo side won the Uruguayan championship that season, then seven more times before his 1970 switch to Sao Paulo of Brazil. His Penarol haul also included three triumphs in Copa Libertadores, South Amercia's leading club competition, and victory over Real Madrid in the world club championship of 1966.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...oals-took-him-to-four-world-cups-8986834.html
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Sorry, can't quote your posts for some reason @harms and @Gio.

Transfermarkt and a few other sources have him listed as right midfield and the two games I've watched of him had him playing as a RW and a CM.
 
Himannv said:
Sorry, can't quote your posts for some reason @harms and @Gio.

Transfermarkt and a few other sources have him listed as right midfield and the two games I've watched of him had him playing as a RW and a CM.
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Transfermarkt is a pretty shit historical source in terms of positions to be fair, I wouldn't trust them on that one bit.

Here's Reuter playing as a right wingback in a back 5, which was a default German formation of the time
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_1992_Final
Same for Borussia in the 1997 CL final
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_UEFA_Champions_League_Final

Also came on as a RWB substitution in a 1990 WC final iirc. Aside from that, he often played as a right back and as a right midfielder and, later, as a central mid.
 
Even spread of quality and average players across the pitch (some of whom I don't know about as with others).

Must commend both the managers for getting the tactics and fits right though.

Alonso and Voronin might be a slight bit redundant but no reason to say they can't work together.
 
Love team GS's spine. Shesternyov > Redondo > Rivera > Seeler with Iniesta in the mix. Lots of creativity, but there seems to be a over reliance on Seeler to score. I don't really see any other goalscorers to supplement him.

I rate Koeman > Alonso > Rocha > Villa slightly lesser but between Villa and Rocha and Ronaldinho, they seem to have a better variety in finishing...but face a superior defence.

Very even as of now, but leaning towards Himan.
 
I really don’t know enough of these players.
I also don’t like voting a winner based on just one quality player they have drafted.

Is iniesta out of place out there on the wing?
 
Zlatan 7 said:
I really don’t know enough of these players.
I also don’t like voting a winner based on just one quality player they have drafted.

Is iniesta out of place out there on the wing?
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you can make a good case that his peak was actually from the wing.
 
Gio said:
Aye this. Tell me about Perez, Sarti, Bertini and Libuda. I'm all ears.
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Libuda is a German winger of the 60s/partly 70s, a definitive Ruhrgebiet legend, and sort of semi-legend in German football. Famous for his dribbling and street flair, his nickname "Stan" (which completely replaced his first name) came from likening him to Stanley Matthews. He by and large failed to become a mainstay in the NT during the 60s (there were many winger options), but was a starter for most of the 1970 WC.

For this game I'd expect a good to very good solo dribbler, mobile and active; a creative threat at his best & somewhat erratic and inefficient at his worst. The anti-Iniesta of GS's team, if you will.

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Edit: Not a goalscorer, as that point was brought up.

Just my impressions & basic knowledge, so maybe others can fill in as well.
 
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It seems like Seeler can't score against an impressive centre back duo of Ezequiel Garay and Ronald Koeman

While Ronaldinho carries the whole team, despite having Enzo Perez on the opposite wing
 
green_smiley said:
It seems like Seeler can't score against an impressive centre back duo of Ezequiel Garay and Ronald Koeman

While Ronaldinho carries the whole team, despite having Enzo Perez on the opposite wing
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there is a lot to like in both teams, h-man left side is sexy as feck with that midfield behind and Villa up top who is generally a very underrated striker as people mostly think of him for his Barca days.

You team is also great, main players fit nicely with each other, few players that are unknown and most likely dont fit(mostly thinking of Greig though id be open to change my mind) but the thing that on my vote is the quality of back 3, difference is night and day.
 
Wow, that scoreline is crazy.

Anyway, just came on to add some information on Giuliano Sarti. He was the goalkeeper for Grande Inter in the 60s and also played for Fiorentina and Juve. He's known to be an excellent shot stopper and importantly, a sweeper keeper. I watched him as well while watching Burgnich. He's played with Burgnich obviously and they seem to work well together. His strengths seemed similar to Valdes, so he was a suitable pick in my team.
 
Himannv said:
Wow, that scoreline is crazy.

Anyway, just came on to add some information on Giuliano Sarti. He was the goalkeeper for Grande Inter in the 60s and also played for Fiorentina and Juve. He's known to be an excellent shot stopper and importantly, a sweeper keeper. I watched him as well while watching Burgnich. He's played with Burgnich obviously and they seem to work well together. His strengths seemed similar to Valdes, so he was a suitable pick in my team.
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Who is this Perez player?
 
@Gio

Enzo Perez is a sheep, but he's not a bad player on the whole. He was player of the year in the 2013-2014 season while playing for Benfica. He's a somewhat hard working player who can play as a winger but also functions as a CM (he was converted into one with some success and played alongside Matic). Benfica manager Jorge Jesus named Perez his side's most difficult player to replace and the "brain" of the team.
 
IMO he's really underrated in these things. He's an excellent goal poacher and the leading goalscorer for Spain by a comfortable margin. His scoring rate is second only to Di Stefano really. There's also more to his game than just goals. He's able to bring others into play and his skills on the ball are good enough to create chances for himself and others. He's great at leading the line by himself if necessary and scores with both feet.

Here's a @Šjor Bepo all touch video of him vs Villareal.

 
Himannv said:
IMO he's really underrated in these things. He's an excellent goal poacher and the leading goalscorer for Spain by a comfortable margin. His scoring rate is second only to Di Stefano really. There's also more to his game than just goals. He's able to bring others into play and his skills on the ball are good enough to create chances for himself and others. He's great at leading the line by himself if necessary and scores with both feet.

Here's a @Šjor Bepo all touch video of him vs Villareal.

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I think the modern lot will be treated a lot better in a few years. Villa definitely has a say in the all time context. Lovely player who'd fit in any creative team.

I treat Torres' peak higher than his, but Villa's consistency takes him a lot higher.
 
GodShaveTheQueen said:
I think the modern lot will be treated a lot better in a few years. Villa definitely has a say in the all time context. Lovely player who'd fit in any creative team.

I treat Torres' peak higher than his, but Villa's consistency takes him a lot higher.
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Personally id take Villa over any modern(from his time until today) striker of his type(Torres, Suarez etc.), reckon im a minority as Villa took a backseat at his peak to compliment Messi and tbf he got his rewards and im confident he doesnt regret his decision. Could have done a lot more on an individual level if he continued as a striker or was just lucky to play with the assist machine version of Messi. Reckon he would be a 50 goals per season striker if he was playing with wing version of Messi.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
Personally id take Villa over any modern(from his time until today) striker of his type(Torres, Suarez etc.), reckon im a minority as Villa took a backseat at his peak to compliment Messi and tbf he got his rewards and im confident he doesnt regret his decision. Could have done a lot more on an individual level if he continued as a striker or was just lucky to play with the assist machine version of Messi. Reckon he would be a 50 goals per season striker if he was playing with wing version of Messi.
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you certainly aren't ;)
 
Šjor Bepo said:
Personally id take Villa over any modern(from his time until today) striker of his type(Torres, Suarez etc.)
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I don't think Villa could ever be the talisman of an attack like peak Torres could (the individual level performance and output).

Villa is a great support player to have if you are looking to build around someone great (like Ronaldinho here), or building a Valencia-esque team of a lot of very good players.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
Personally id take Villa over any modern(from his time until today) striker of his type(Torres, Suarez etc.), reckon im a minority as Villa took a backseat at his peak to compliment Messi and tbf he got his rewards and im confident he doesnt regret his decision. Could have done a lot more on an individual level if he continued as a striker or was just lucky to play with the assist machine version of Messi. Reckon he would be a 50 goals per season striker if he was playing with wing version of Messi.
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That's a fair assessment. He spent the majority of his best years at Valencia where he had three campaigns hitting around 30 goals, and even though they had a strong creative cast in the second half of the 2000s, you'd bank on him to beef up those numbers further with the territorial dominance and supply lines of Barcelona around 2008-2010.
 
GodShaveTheQueen said:
I don't think Villa could ever be the talisman of an attack like peak Torres could (the individual level performance and output).

Villa is a great support player to have if you are looking to build around someone great (like Ronaldinho here), or building a Valencia-esque team of a lot of very good players.
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He basically won a World Cup doing just that though.
 
Gio said:
He basically won a World Cup doing just that though.
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I don't think that Spain team had any talisman to be honest. Don't mean a lone striker by talisman. I mean someone who could be the most important player of a team's attack, who could perhaps change the game on his own. Peak Torres had that aura about him. Never felt that about Villa.

Not berating him of course.
 
Gio said:
He basically won a World Cup doing just that though.
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He was devastating in Euro 08 as well and their best player along with Xavi. Hat trick in the first match. Absolute brilliant clutch goal dribbling past a couple of defenders in second game. Him and Torres formed an incredible partnership during that tournament. Was unlucky to get injured for the final.
 
GodShaveTheQueen said:
I don't think that Spain team had any talisman to be honest. Don't mean a lone striker by talisman. I mean someone who could be the most important player of a team's attack, who could perhaps change the game on his own. Peak Torres had that aura about him. Never felt that about Villa.

Not berating him of course.
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Yeah, I know what you mean about the singular threat peak Torres posed. For a period he just felt impossible to defend against and he had an athletic threat that Villa didn't have in his locker.

Still, I thought the basic pattern of Spain's win in South Africa was pass the ball around in circles for 89 minutes and then Villa would almost single-handedly provide the penetration. A less ruthless match winner and they may well have struggled to get out of the group stages or had to run the risk of a penalty shoot-out against Portugal or Paraguay.
 
Gio said:
Yeah, I know what you mean about the singular threat peak Torres posed. For a period he just felt impossible to defend against and he had an athletic threat that Villa didn't have in his locker.

Still, I thought the basic pattern of Spain's win in South Africa was pass the ball around in circles for 89 minutes and then Villa would almost single-handedly provide the penetration. A less ruthless match winner and they may well have struggled to get out of the group stages or had to run the risk of a penalty shoot-out against Portugal or Paraguay.
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Agree with all of that.
 
Henry and Drogba for me. Torres slightly ahead of Suarez for the third. Haven't caught Shearer's peak live though.
 
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