Duncan Edwards Remembered

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DUNCAN EDWARDS REMEMBERED

Manchester United's history is built in part on the brilliance of legendary individuals. Few harbour reverence as powerful as Duncan Edwards, born on this day - 1 October - in 1936...

What makes him special? The name and reputation of Duncan Edwards is still revered 57 years after the travesty of his death, aged just 21, in the Munich air disaster of 1958. Why? The impact he had, in terms of his achievements and the way he played the game, had already served notice that United possessed a world-class talent in the imposing figure of the Dudley-born half-back, who had signed for the club despite the close attentions of several rivals from the Midlands. Edwards could play effectively almost anywhere but excelled as a half-back or wing-half (a modern equivalent would probably be an all-action defensive midfielder). Duncan's physique meant he excelled at a very young age; he made his Reds debut aged 16 years and 185 days and was the youngest player capped by England at 18 years and 183 days, a record that stood for 43 years until Michael Owen's debut in 1998.


Crowning glory The Reds had reached the semi-finals of the European Cup when tragedy struck in Munich and, while Edwards never had the chance to add to his haul of 18 England caps, nor take his place in the 1958 World Cup squad, it was the potential for further success with United that led to feelings of what might have been because Edwards had proven to be an integral part of the Reds' consecutive league titles in 1956 and 1957.

He said "I thought to myself, 'I'll show him something. He will never have seen the likes of this.' So I went out and played probably the best game I have ever played in my life. After that I was content." – Duncan's response to press criticism after a 4-2 league defeat to Wolves was of quiet and inevitable determination.

We say "He was Roy Keane and Bryan Robson combined, but in a bigger body. He could play as an attacker, creator or defender and be the best player on the pitch. He was world-class when United had the ball, and when the opposition had it he was our best defender."

They say "The Busby Babes were a team, but few would argue Duncan Edwards was the greatest." - David Meek, writing in Legends of United – The Heroes of the Busby Era

Hit me with the facts Edwards' tally of 177 United appearances and 21 goals does not tell the full story. He made his debut against Cardiff on 4 April 1953, aged 16 years and 185 days, but by the time of his 21st birthday he already had two league winners' medals, as well as establishing himself as an England international.

Tell me something I might not know Edwards was called up for National Service in June 1955 but was released from the Royal Army Ordnance Corps in Nessicliffe, Shropshire (billeted with team mate and friend Bobby Charlton), to help United to two consecutive titles.

In a word Unique.

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...niversary-of-his-birth-on-1-october-1936.aspx

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

The old school Half Backs were something. So versatile and unbelievably competent and Duncan belongs in the top tier.

Anywhere down the left falnk, from full back to inside forward, he could do it all.

It's shame the world never got to see him in prime. He would well be up there or even above Rijkaard, Matthaus and company!

 

[mark_a]

I share my birthday with him & my Grandfather signed him up for United.

I was on my way back from the Ipswich game the other week & a guy was talking about watching the team from 1957 onward, what great stories. Before my time unfortunately, but I do love to hear stories about the Busby Babes.

 

[SirBobbysCombover]

I wasnt old enough to see him play, but my grandad and elder relatives always spoke with warmth and sadness laced into one.

 

[Red Diva]

The old boy next door - City fan, says Duncan Edwards was the best player he ever saw.

 

[Revan]

I share my birthday with him & my Grandfather signed him up for United.

I was on my way back from the Ipswich game the other week & a guy was talking about watching the team from 1957 onward, what great stories. Before my time unfortunately, but I do love to hear stories about the Busby Babes.

You are Sir Matt's nephew?

 

[Aboutreika18]

I share my birthday with him & my Grandfather signed him up for United.

Joe Armstrong?

 

[Revan]

Joe Armstrong?

After my post, I immediately though of him. He was the guy who found and signed George Best and Sir Bobby, right?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

After my post, I immediately though of him. He was the guy who found and signed George Best and Sir Bobby, right?

Charlton, at least. He didn't discover Best - that was Bob Bishop, as per the legend, anyway. Armstrong would've been the one to actually sign him up, though.

 

[Revan]

Charlton, at least. He didn't discover Best - that was Bob Bishop, as per the legend, anyway. Armstrong would've been the one to actually sign him up, though.

Cheers!

Lets hope that @mark_a can share some stories.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Lets hope that @mark_a can share some stories.

Yes, that would be great - a key figure in United's history, nothing less.

 

[fortyseven]

Time passes. Ten years ago there'd have been ten pages of this.

In a couple of years it'll only be the old farts who remember Cantona. And even they will be wondering to themselves who this Sir Bobby Charlton guy was.

Thank you Red Machine for a fine OP.

 

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Duncan Edwards – Just a Myth – or - Was He Just a Marvel?

Because of a number of reasons, mainly related to retirement, and being involved in a couple of other writing projects, I have not been around on the Café for the last eight months. So sadly I have missed a lot of interesting posts, and great stories. It’s impossible to read back through everything, but one thread that did catch my eye was the one where Ryan Giggs was voted as United’s “best ever player.”

Fair enough, in this day and age of media and television hype, everybody has got an opinion and I have no problem with that. It would be a boring old world, and make for boring conversation if we all agreed. However, I did look at that poll and it had me scratching my old head. I believe that it was run by the Manchester United Magazine, but the question that I would ask is, what criteria was laid down to constitute a “best ever player”? Selecting a “best ever” player, is in my opinion, an almost impossible task – there are so many intangibles – the main one being the expanse of time between the different eras.

Now don’t get me wrong, great players are great players, no matter which era they come from. They all have that special “something’ which makes them a class apart, and takes them up to that “great” level.
Today I hear the eulogies of “world class”, “great”, “legend” etc etc, bandied about so freely and bestowed upon players, who in my own humble opinion, are anything but. It is not helped by this relatively new era of electronic media hype, and for the majority of players from eras that I have heard dubbed as “the black and white era”, and “the cloth cap era”, they are generally consigned to the historic garbage can.

Is that fair? I don’t think so. Today there are all sorts of historical records to look at when you look at the modern player – dvd’s, “You Tube” clips, even movie film. For those old players of long ago, there is nothing to gauge their abilities on apart from old newspaper reports, and micromesh film of old newsreels, stored away in the various city libraries archives. Their careers are marked by hard to get hold of books, out of date magazine publications, but mostly, they are remembered by word of mouth passed down through the generations of match going fans. Fans who actually saw these old players, and then passed on their recollections to their families and friends.

We all have differing views, and see things differently. A player, whom I think maybe “world class”, may well be dismissed as being “a donkey” by others. Fair enough, as the old saying goes, “one man’s meat is another man’s poison.” It’s all about opinion, and this is one of the main reasons why this wonderful game is attractive to us all as fans. However, I do find that players from bygone eras are all too easily summarily, and arbitrally, discarded these days. Their contributions to the game are far too easily forgotten, and that is a crying shame. I hear the same old stuff time and time again these days. “Oh he/they wouldn’t have lasted five minutes in the modern game” or, “there is no comparision, today’s players are much fitter, and both they, and the game are much faster.” Really?

I’ll concede that today’s game is quicker – but only marginally, and that I put down to the pristine playing surfaces which players have at their disposal week in, and week out; and also to the ball that is used today whereby it is at a constant weight and does absorb water like the old leather ball did. The ball moves across the surface quicker. As for fitness, yes again I’ll concede that today’s players are fitter, but for all the sports medicine and technology etc, again I’d say there is not a lot in it. You look at those grainy old films and pictures of the 50’s and 60’s and just look at the surfaces those old players had to contend with. The kit they wore was mostly cotton, and wool, and also absorbed water. For those old boys to get through 90 minutes on the pitches which, between October and April, only had a nodding acquaintance with grass, was great testament to their fitness levels and stoicism.

 

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continues..

It would be interesting if say, we could see the likes of Best, Law, and Charlton, or Mathews, Lawton, and Finney, attacking today’s defenders. Just as interesting would be seeing the likes of Drogba, Torres, van Persie, Tevez, Rooney, lining up against the likes of Roy Hartle and Tommy Banks, Eddie Clamp and Ron Flowers, Tommy Smith and Ron Yeats. So let’s be under no misapprehensions – those old players from years ago, those who had “great” reputations, were just that – “great”. For a number of today’s wonderful players, they too fall into that same category – they truly are “great” players.

When you spend a lifetime watching the game, and your own team, you watch literally thousands of players, see some wonderful, extraordinary moments, (Wayne Rooney’s goal against Manchester City was one of them) and those memories get encased in your memory’s back pocket. Your memory has a computer image of all of these names, moments, occasions in your life, locked away, and as you get older and progress through your life, you do relive them over, and over again – especially when younger fans want to thirst on your knowledge. For example, today I was asked to recall “the three greatest goals that you have ever seen scored at Old Trafford” – it’s nigh on an impossible task, but I will sit down later and try to answer. It is fun.

I have been very fortunate in my life to have lived through the great football periods that I have. I’m blessed with seeing the many hundreds of truly “great” players that I have – both British, and Foreign. There have also been many wonderful teams to recall along my journey. Teams that played the game in the right way, and with style and grace, and who upheld the ethos of the game. But over the years, the questions which I have had to field more than any others are;

“Tell me about Duncan Edwards.” “Just how good was he?” “Surely, most of what has been written about Edwards is myth?” “It’s impossible for any player to be described as good as what Edwards has.” “Edwards can never have been that good because he never reached his full potential?”

Dear Duncan. It speaks so much of him, that even now, almost 53 years after his passing, (his anniversary is tomorrow February 21st) he is still probably the most talked about player in Manchester United’s long, and rich history. I was lucky enough to meet him so many times, sometimes to the point of being a nuisance to him. From the time he lodged at Mrs. Watson’s at number 5, Birch Road, Old Trafford, then after he moved to 19, Gorse Avenue, Stretford, and then on to 2, Barlow Road, Old Trafford.

Just how good was he? Let me assure you good people that there is certainly no myth as to regards Duncan’s playing abilities. He was simply the most “complete” player that the game has ever seen. That’s not sentiment speaking, nor is it any kind of sentimentality. It is not only my own opinion of him, but simply the judgment of his peers, and his contemporaries, the very people who played with him, alongside him, and against him. It is also the views of some of the most respected men in football’s great history. This is what some of those people had to say:

Sir Matt Busby; ‘I rate Duncan Edwards the most complete footballer in Britain – perhaps the World.’

‘He was a Colossus. Whatever was needed, he had it. He was immensely powerful. He was prodigiously gifted in the arts and crafts of the game. His temperament was perfect. His confidence was supreme and infectious. No opponent was too big or too famous for Duncan. A wing-half, he could have been a great centre-half, or a great forward striker. He would have been one of the great leaders with his sheer inspiration. If there was ever a player who could be called a one-man team, that man was Duncan Edwards. His death, as far as football is concerned, was the single biggest tragedy that has happened to England and Manchester United. He was then, and has always remained to me incomparable.’

‘We looked at Duncan right from the start and we gave up trying to find flaws in his game. (Remember – this was Edwards when he was just 16 years old). Nothing could stop him and nothing unnerved him. The bigger the occasion the better he liked it. While other players would be pacing up and down the dressing room, rubbing their legs, doing exercises, and looking for a way to pass time, Duncan was always very calm. He was a good type of lad too. Duncan didn’t want to know about the high life. He just wanted to go home or to his digs. He just lived for the game of football.’

Sir Bobby Charlton; ‘I find that I think about Duncan a lot. I have seen all the players who in their time have been labeled the best in the world – Puskas, Di Stefano, Gento, Didi. John Charles and all the rest – and not one of them have been as good as Big Duncan. There was no other player in the world like him then, and there has been nobody to equal him since. The man was incomparable.

 

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continues..

Sometimes I fear that there is a danger that people will think that we who knew him, and saw him in action, boost him because he is dead. Sentiment can throw a man’s judgment out of perspective. Yet it is not the case with him. Whatever the praise one likes to heap on Duncan is no more than he deserved. He was out on his own at left-half and a First Division player in every other position. There was no one else to start with him.

I am not a person to dramatize things or dispense fulsome praise. It is not in my make-up. A man is a good player or he is not. A few are great, and they deserve respect. But Duncan Edwards was the greatest. I see him in my mind’s eye and I wonder that anyone should have so much talent. He was simply the greatest of them all.’

Sir Stanley Mathews; ‘Duncan Edwards, the boy-man, made his debut for Manchester United at 16 and was an England regular by 18. You could play him anywhere and he would slot into that position as if he had been playing there season after season. For all of his tender years, he was the most complete player of his time and it was a tragedy that his life was taken in the Munich disaster of 1958. When the going was rough, Duncan would be as unmoved as a rock in a raging sea, but for all of his considerable size, he possessed the most deft of skills.’

Jimmy Murphy; ‘Duncan was the Kohinoor Diamond among our crown jewels. Whenever I heard Muhammad Ali on television say he was the greatest, I had to smile. There was only ever one greatest, and that was Duncan Edwards. There was nothing that needed to be coached into him – even at such a young age of 16 – he simply had it all.'

The eulogies about Duncan could go on, and on, and on.

Notice, Busby and Mathews both said, ‘Complete Footballer’. This is what I try to tell people when I am asked about him. In this day and age of overblown media hype, Duncan’s name seldom gets mentioned when it comes to these “best ever” polls. Mostly, he isn’t even mentioned. It is ridiculous really, because Duncan is without doubt, the most complete player to ever pull on the Manchester United shirt.

One myth that I would like to dispel about Duncan was that he was huge in size. He wasn’t, standing just under six feet tall, he weighed 13 and a 1/2 stones. However, his frame was large and bulky, and solid muscle. His thighs and legs were huge, but for all that, he was quick, and moved with the speed and elegance of a gazelle. He had nimbleness as well as strength, flair as well as calm.

Duncan’s favourite position was what was called back then, left-half. He loved that position because he was always in the game. But he could, and did, play for both United, and England, in different positions. Centre-half, centre-forward, inside-forward, it didn’t matter to him as long as he was out there on the field. He could mould his play to whatever position he had been asked to play and still be the most outstanding player on the field. As I have noted, for such a big lad, Duncan was exceptionally quick over the ground, read the game so well for one so young, was ferocious in the tackle, distributed the ball immaculately with either foot, and he could also shoot with such power with either foot. It was almost impossible to see which was supposed to be his weaker foot although in his early years he had been naturally right footed. His heading prowess was another strong point in his game. His temperament was unflappable and he had such great belief in himself and his abilities. In the era in which he played, there were some very famous names and reputations, but they never fazed Duncan in any way whatsoever. He just eclipsed people by the power of his own performance.

People are so quick to tell me that “he never realized his full potential”. I have never agreed with this statement, and I never will. I will agree that his career never “peaked”, but there is a huge difference in not reaching your potential and your career peaking. By the time of his passing, Duncan had played for five years at the very top level, and had been an established England international for three years. It’s difficult to imagine that he could have improved as a player even more. He was already the finished article.

Between 1953, and 1958, at the top level of English football, there were only two competitions in which a professional footballer could take part. The Football League, and the FA Cup. European competition did not start for English teams until 1956. Edwards had an insatiable appetite for playing. In 1956-57, he played an astonishing 94 games at different levels – Football League Championship, FA Cup, European Cup, Full Internationals, and he also represented the Football League XI, England “B”, England U-23, and the Army. He won 2 First Division Championship winner’s medals, an FA Cup Runners-Up medal, 18 full international caps – and those at a time when they were not given away so freely as they are today. He’d played in the European Cup, World Cup Qualifiers, and had been capped at every level for England from Schoolboys (where he still holds the record for being the youngest ever player capped at that level at just 13 years of age) through to full international. There were so many wonderful players around in that era (Stan Mathews, Tom Finney, Nat Lofthouse, just to name a few) who never achieved half of what Duncan did. Yes, his career never peaked (and God knows how much he would have gone on to achieve in his career but for the tragedy) but his potential – no question from me – as I said, he was the complete finished article.

I have so many memories of him. His modesty, shy smile, his broad West Country accent, his habit of calling people “chief”. Even today, I can close my eyes and still be thrilled by the memory of him winning tackles in midfield and surging forward with the ball. His pure strength and ability to play the long or short ball. His tremendous reading of a game and to anticipate what was going to happen. His ability to come up with goal when the going was tough, his strength and determination to be everything he wanted to be – simply the best.

Myth or Marvel? No doubt in my eyes. The myth being that he didn’t reach his potential. The marvel being that for me, and many, many others, that quite simply, he is and was without doubt the most complete player in Manchester United’s great history.

 

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By Iain McCartney, the author of Duncan Edwards: The Full Report

As he pedalled down Warwick Road he acknowledged those who spoke or shouted out to him. Turning onto the Old Trafford forecourt, he free-wheeled down towards his usual spot, a short pass from where the Munich clock stands today. Fumbling in his jacket pocket, he pulls out a length of string and proceeds to tie his bicycle to a drainpipe on the red brick stadium wall. No sooner had his task been completed than he was surrounded by autograph hunters, taking the time to sign every one before making his way into the ground.

Duncan Edwards had a match to prepare for.

Few of the United players owned a car back in those halcyon days and the sight of the cyclist or his team mates on the local bus was a common one. Roger Byrne did have a car and one frosty morning disturbed Matt Busby’s breakfast, when he skidded off the road on his way to training and crashed into the wall in front of his manager’s house.

Duncan on his trusty bicycle was not without incident. One evening, when cycling back to his digs after visiting his girlfriend Molly Leach, he was stopped by a policeman for riding his bike without lights. The constable in question was either a City supporter or a non-football lover, as he duly booked Duncan and an appearance in court followed. As did a £1 fine!

The man-boy from Dudley was everyone’s favourite player, even his team mates would admit it. He was a colossus, both in stature and talent. A player who could win a game on his own and often did.

In one particular fixture, a Youth Cup semi-final at Stamford Bridge, the home side were leading 1-0 and were arguably the better team. Duncan had already graced the first team stage at this time, as well as having represented his country and with United losing, Jimmy Murphy instructed his youngsters to give the ball to Duncan at every opportunity during the second forty-five minutes.

With the second half underway, a cockney voice bellowed out from behind the United dug-out – “Where’s this bloody Edwards Then?”. As if on cue, the ball was threaded through to Duncan and it flew from his boot and into the back of the Chelsea net. Turning with a grin on his face, Murphy replied – “That’s him”.

The United players of today have entertained crowds all over the world and stadiums grand and gaudy. None, however, can claim to have entertained the masses at Blackpool Pleasure Beach. Duncan Edwards can!

As an England schoolboy internationalist in the summer of 1950, he went with his team mates to an ESFA coaching course at Blackpool, under the watchful eye of Joe Mercer and staying in a hotel owned by Stanley Matthews, the Bloomfield Road terrace favourite, who Duncan was to later line up alongside in the England team.

The magnetism of the Pleasure Beach attracted the youngsters, as it did for millions of others, with the boys quickly spotting a ‘Beat the Goalie’ stall. The unsuspecting stallholder eagerly accepted their money and the novice goalkeeper faced their shots, failing to stop any and off they went with their prizes.

Returning the following day, the same thing happened and the stallholder sensing something was going on asked a few questions and their game was up. However, they were not banished from the stall, but arrangements made for Duncan and his pals to have free shots, beating the ‘keeper every time, in order for the stallholder to drum up business. “If these lads can beat the goalie, then I’m sure you can sir…………..”

Legend has it that Matt Busby signed the pyjama clad boy from Dudley in the early hours of the morning. It is wrong, a mere myth. Oh yes, he was dressed in his night- time attire, but it was Jimmy Murphy, along with Bert Whalley who awakened the Edwards family in the early hours of May 31st to obtain the signature that countless other clubs yearned for.

Duncan Edwards is still spoken of today as no other player, United or otherwise, can ever hope to be. Those who saw him will never forget what they witnessed, while those who didn’t wish they had been around at the time to catch a mere glimpse of footballing genius.

Genius indeed he was. At home in defence or up-front. Had he and his team mates lived, the history of Manchester United Football Club would have read differently. Much differently. As would that of the England national side.

He would only have been thirty-two in 1968, but United would have been champions of Europe long before then. He would have been thirty in 1966. It would not have been Bobby Moore lifting the World Cup at Wembley.

The word ‘legend’ is used too freely in the present day. It does, however, fit Duncan Edwards like a glove.

No-one will tell you differently.

 

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Statistics
United Career: August 1952 - 21 February 1958
Birthplace: Dudley
Date of Birth: 01 October 1936
Position: Midfielder
United Debut: 04/04/1953
Games: 175
Goals: 21
Honours: League Championship: 55/6, 56/7
Full International: 18 England caps 5 goals

Biography
The legend of Duncan Edwards was a short time in the building but, as long as men gather together to kick a football, it will never die. Duncan was a Soccer titan, a once-in-a-lifetime phenomenon who thundered on to the First Division scene in the early 1950s and was snatched away just five years later, leaving the football world aching for what might have been. He had been in the United side at 16, the England team two years later, and there seemed no limit to what he would achieve.


Duncan Edwards was that hitherto mythical being, the complete player. There was nothing that could be done on a football field that this young giant couldn't do better than anyone else. His ball control, with both feet, was masterful; his passing and tackling were exemplary; his shooting was awesome, both in power and accuracy; in the air he was a king; his readinh of the game was startling in its maturity. The catalogue of his playing attributes was comprehensive.


And that's barely the half of it. Then there were his bravery, loyalty and dedication, and - perhaps the most crucial of the lot - a temperament that ensured he would never squander the gifts with which he was so bounteously endowed.


From the moment he arrived at Old Trafford, there was no doubt that Duncan was going to be very special. He was aware of this himself but was not one to sit back and let it all happen. His devotion to the game bordered on the fanatical and he would often practise until the ball had to be dragged away from him. Duncan would have played all day for the love of it if he could and was the embodiment of the Corinthian spint.


Most of his games for United were at wing-half, a position from which he could lend his dominance to the defence but could also storm into the attack at every opportunity. Defenders seemed to bounce off him when he set off on one of those surging runs, an apparently unstoppable force. His last League match, the Reds' epic victory over Arsenal at Highbury by the odd goal in nine, saw one of his typical strikes when he arrived ]ate on the edge of the penalty box to wallop a pass from Dennis Viollet past the Gunners' custodian, Jack Kelsey.


It's a testimony to his stature that respected judges who saw such men as Best, Law and Charlton in their prime nevertheless place Ducan above them. As Bobby Charlton himself once put it: `If I had to play for my life, and could take one man with me, it would be Duncan Edwards.'


When he died at Munich - after a courageous two-week fight for life during which he joked with Jimmy Murphy about being fit for the next game - he had won two Championship medals and had played 18 times for Englnnd. He was only 21, his vast potential barely tapped. Those who saw Duncan Edwards play will treasure the memory. They will not see the young leviathan's like again.

Memories
With the constant media exposure of football and the overpowering hype that accompanies every half decent young talent to kick a ball it is perhaps only to be expected that modern fans will question quite how great Duncan Edwards really was, particularly with the dearth of televised footage of the game from that time remaining.


Despite all the greats who have graced the pitch at Old Trafford Edwards' name is still at the top of most fans all time United team sheet, the memories of the fans from RedCafe who were fortunate enough to have seen Duncan play or who can recall the passion their father's used when describing him explain why Duncan Edwards will always be a true United Legend.


I saw Edwards play more than a few times and still consider him the greatest I've seen. He played for England 23 times in a period when they only played a handfull of internationals a year and was the youngest player to have ever played for England until recent times and it was hard to get an England spot if you were under about 22 then. He had more of an impact on a game than players like Rooney, Robson or Keane have ever had and would undoubtably have been as good in todays game as in the game in the 50's. - OldRed1


I saw Duncan Edwards play on several occassions, both for the youth and first teams, and I can vouch for the fact that he was arguably the greatest talent ever produced by United. Mr Wood is entitled to his scepticism but, as OR1 points out, England caps were not handed out like confetti in the fifties, especially not to youngsters and Edwards had 18 caps before he was 21. He performed magnificently against a Real Madrid team boasting a forward line of Kopa, Rial, Di Stefano,Del Sol, and Gento and try to defend against that lot. In one season he played for the 1st team, youth team, Football league, full internationals, and Army, getting on for about 80 games I think. No rotation or subs in those days, very little restriction on violent tackles and the pitches were usually swamps after October. Younger fans are quick to point out the advances made in football fitness and diets but it is important to offset these with the playing conditions of earlier times not to mention the miserly wages.


My most vivid recollection is a goal he scored in a 6th round cup tie at OT against Everton. From a routine skirmish around the centre circle he suddenly emerged from the pack by sheer strength and strode on with the Everton defence backing off before hammering an unstoppable shot into the bottom left hand corner from about 35 yds.


Just think. He would only have been 27 when George Best came on the scene. - Sonny Feehan


My old man was on the terraces watching the great 40s side of Rowley and Carey, the Busby Babes, Law, Charlton, Best, Crerrand and the rest, through the seventies too, and he said Edwards was the greatest footballer he's ever seen live, and the greatest he's seen at all along with Puskas, Pele and Maradona.


He had everything, apparently: wonderful skill, speed, power, grace, the lot. What stood out most in my dad's mind was the impression you had when looking at him of a meeting of opposites: he was hard as rock and built like a tank, but so young, just a boy, and so fast - that's something you don't often hear about him but he was lightning apparently. A marvellous, and very clean, tackler, and a fine passer of the ball long and short. But what was most extraordinary, according to my dad, was his amazing drive - even more than Keano, he said.


He told me about one game against Everton, probably at Maine Rd he thought because OT was still being renovated after the blitz, a bruiser of a game on a pitch thick with mud, and the leather ball caked with it and weighing a ton. Edwards had kept United in it, tackling like a man possessed, breaking things up in midfield and appearing from nowhere when the defense was breached. A few minutes from time, he picked the ball up and ran, my dad said in his mind it was three-quarters of the pitch but let's say half, and it looked for all the world like the Everton players were bouncing off him as he surged down the mddle and smashed it home. - Plechazunga


I just don't see how Duncan could have gotten even better than he was at the age when he passed. For him the game came so naturally. It was the love of the game and his enthusism for it that made him what he was. He was just football daft from the time he could stand up. I've said it before, and I always say it in the nicest way, in many ways he was a freak. He would take everything in that he could about the game. Jimmy Murophy told Matt that; "there is nothing that you can coach with this kid - he has it all." For me that's about as fine a testament as you could get. Tom Clare

Bobby Charlton, Denis Law, Bobby Robson, Billy Wright, Jimmy Armfield, Bill Shankly, Tommy Docherty, Walter Winterbottom, most journalists of the day...oh and someone called Matt Busby who knew a little bit about football.....were just a few people who said Edwards was a 'collossus'.....


So for me, I didn't see Edwards play and I don't need to.......he would still be in my all time United eleven! - Mr. MUJAC

 

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Duncan Edwards: The facts behind the legend

A few facts to consider......

Edwards played for England Schoolboys at 13....two years younger than every other player....also at 14 and 15. When he was 15 all the the other lads complained that he was too good and he shouldn't be allowed to compete. The FA stuck to the rules and England won the Victory Shield in 1952 with Edwards as captain. In total he appeared in nine VS matches....a record at the time.



When Edwards arrived at Old Trafford in August 1952 he was too good to join the Juniors so he was drafted into the Colts which was United's 4th team. Within half a dozen games he was elevated to the 'A' team and by December was making his debut in the reserves. He was still only 15 at the time....



....by early April he was playing so well that Busby gave him his league debut at home to Cardiff City.....this was virtually unheard of at the time for someone so young to make this type of progress.To give it some context, Bobby Charlton had to wait three years in the junior and reserve teams before making his debut...two years older than Edwards. He also helped United win the inaugural FA Youth Cup. Playing against lads two years older than himself, he scored 8 goals in 9 games including five in one game all from midfield!



In 1953/54, Edwards second season, United had a slow start and Busby introduced many of the 'Babes' into the first team at Huddersfield in November. Edwards had just turned 17 and was a virtual ever present in the team for the remainder of the year. He helped United reach 4th position after the bad start and also won his second FAYC winners medal. He scored 8 goals in 8 games including the famous tie at Rotherham when Jimmy Murphy told the players just to play their own game as there was a lot of hype about Duncan at the time. With time running out and United losing....Murphy told everyone to give the ball to Duncan.......he scored a hat-trick and United went through.



At the end of the season, the Youth team travelled to Switzerland and Germany to participate in youth tournaments. United won both and all the local footballing experts marvelled at the team but at Edwards in particular.



In 1954/55 United finished 5th but the explosion was just about to happen....by the end of the term he had collected his third FAYC medal and once again opposing teams complained that United shouldn't play him in the youth team because he was too good!! He also appeared for the England U/23 team (at 18) and scored a hat-trick versus Scotland in England's 6-0 victory...he was applauded off the pitch at the end (even by the Scots) and was talked about for weeks afterwards.



By April he had been selected to play in his first full internation at 18 years and 183 days, helping England to a 7-2 thrashing over Scotland.



He won successive league championships in 1955/56 and 1956/57.....reached the FA Cup final in 1957...the European Cup semi-final in 1957 and had half of Europe waxing lyrical over United and Edwards. After defeating Anderlecht 10-0 at OT, the opposing manager asked 'why doesn't England just pick all 11 United players?'.



During this period also did his National Service and playing for the Army he won over the German crowd with an amazing display against West Germany. He scored twice....the second goal he ran through the entire German team and scored with a piledriver. He almost repeated the feat a little later but unfortunately burst the ball because he kicked it too hard!!! The Germans nicknamed him 'boom boom' Edwards.



Upon his death....senior players in the game....managers...and the world press all said he was a 'collossus' and would have won everything in the game......many feel that he would have kept Bobby Moore out of the England side.....

We may not have seen him play....but reading the press reports of the time....reading many reports since, no United player before or since had such an impact at such at young age. Not even George Best or Norman Whiteside made the progress he did.

 

[mark_a]

Yes, that would be great - a key figure in United's history, nothing less.

After my post, I immediately though of him. He was the guy who found and signed George Best and Sir Bobby, right?

Joe Armstrong was recruited by Matt Busby & became his chief scout about 1948. He was about 15 years older than Matt and worked as a GPO engineer in Manchester. In fact, when he turned 60, in 1954, he retired from the GPO job & went full time at United! By this time, he'd already found & signed Bobby Charlton and several others.

He didn't discover Best, that was Bob Bishop, but as chief scout Joe would have overseen the process & signed him up. George's parents didn't think there was much future in football so Joe got him a job as an errand boy! Joe made the call to talk him into returning when he got homesick & went home.

Needless to say, "discovering" players is a weird one. The way people usually mean it to refer to who from United first spotted them. It's obvious that a good player at 15 and under would have been spotted by their coach or teacher. With Bobby, there was a tip-off from a teacher & what Joe did, after watching him, was get in there quickly & then hang on. until he got his man! Most books that mention Joe acknowledge that he was a bit of a charmer and he definitely had the gift of the gab. He knew how to win a player for United, which of course involved spotting them, but that was only the start. There's a chunk of text in Jim White's book about United which seems to be suggesting that illegal payments were made to parents to secure players, but he doesn't actually give any evidence, suggesting that Joe Armstrong may have had financial ways of covering his tracks! That's a pretty bizarre bit of writing for me as there's no actual evidence of anything illegal, so why imply that there was? Especially involving a character so key for United, but has been so little written about!

It definitely seems that the trick is to have a great network of "informers" (teachers and the like), a good responsive scout network and then the ability to spot whether a player has "it" or not. Then making sure you're in first and keenest! With Bobby Charlton, many clubs were in for him, but Joe had got in there first and he'd met & won over the parents as well. He apparently snuck into the train carriage with Bobby & his parents coming back from an England schoolboy international and when challenged by a teacher said he was their "Uncle Joe". Bobby always looked out for Grandad & referred to him as his Uncle Joe.

It was with the help of Joe Armstrong that Jimmy Murphy kept United running after Munich. It's a shame that he didn't figure in the BBC dramatization of the Munich Air Crash, which Sandy pointed out to the press at the time it was shown. We have several press photographs of Jimmy & Joe emerging from the United vs. Sheffield Wednesday game after Munich.

Anyway, considering Joe Armstrong's contribution to Manchester United after the war, it's a shame that there's next to nothing relating to him in the museum and usually only a cursory few lines in most books.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Anyway, considering Joe Armstrong's contribution to Manchester United after the war, it's a shame that there's next to nothing relating to him in the museum and usually only a cursory few lines in most books.

Indeed! But thanks for making these posts - and it's special to have his grandson on this board.

It may have been mentioned in the anecdotes posted above (don't think so, though), but the particular circumstances surrounding Duncan's arrival at Old Trafford (what happened before the famous night time contract visit in Dudley) are these (as per the accepted version):

Joe Mercer (of Arsenal fame) noticed Duncan playing for the England School Boys team (he was barely into his teens at that point) - and mentioned the boy to Busby when the pair of them met in connection with an Arsenal-United match in London (I think it was in London, at least). Busby then sent your grandfather to Dudley in order to have a look at Duncan. After five minutes, it was obvious to him what he was looking at - and he told Busby in no uncertain terms that this boy was pure gold. And the rest, as they say, is history. *

* Actually, come to think of it, Duncan may have been known to Busby even before Mercer mentioned him. Jack O' Brien (another United scout) reported Duncan to Busby after having seen him play when he was just 12 years old.

Not surprising, really, when we consider what everyone immediately noticed about Duncan: His immense combination of physique (which stood out at an early age) AND technique...AND an added mental maturity on top of that.

Messi - in the shape of a tank. And bloody fast. There's a reason why people who witnessed him raved about him in rare notes.

 

[Jazz]

Joe Armstrong was recruited by Matt Busby & became his chief scout about 1948. He was about 15 years older than Matt and worked as a GPO engineer in Manchester. In fact, when he turned 60, in 1954, he retired from the GPO job & went full time at United! By this time, he'd already found & signed Bobby Charlton and several others.

He didn't discover Best, that was Bob Bishop, but as chief scout Joe would have overseen the process & signed him up. George's parents didn't think there was much future in football so Joe got him a job as an errand boy! Joe made the call to talk him into returning when he got homesick & went home.

Needless to say, "discovering" players is a weird one. The way people usually mean it to refer to who from United first spotted them. It's obvious that a good player at 15 and under would have been spotted by their coach or teacher. With Bobby, there was a tip-off from a teacher & what Joe did, after watching him, was get in there quickly & then hang on. until he got his man! Most books that mention Joe acknowledge that he was a bit of a charmer and he definitely had the gift of the gab. He knew how to win a player for United, which of course involved spotting them, but that was only the start. There's a chunk of text in Jim White's book about United which seems to be suggesting that illegal payments were made to parents to secure players, but he doesn't actually give any evidence, suggesting that Joe Armstrong may have had financial ways of covering his tracks! That's a pretty bizarre bit of writing for me as there's no actual evidence of anything illegal, so why imply that there was? Especially involving a character so key for United, but has been so little written about!

It definitely seems that the trick is to have a great network of "informers" (teachers and the like), a good responsive scout network and then the ability to spot whether a player has "it" or not. Then making sure you're in first and keenest! With Bobby Charlton, many clubs were in for him, but Joe had got in there first and he'd met & won over the parents as well. He apparently snuck into the train carriage with Bobby & his parents coming back from an England schoolboy international and when challenged by a teacher said he was their "Uncle Joe". Bobby always looked out for Grandad & referred to him as his Uncle Joe.

It was with the help of Joe Armstrong that Jimmy Murphy kept United running after Munich. It's a shame that he didn't figure in the BBC dramatization of the Munich Air Crash, which Sandy pointed out to the press at the time it was shown. We have several press photographs of Jimmy & Joe emerging from the United vs. Sheffield Wednesday game after Munich.

Anyway, considering Joe Armstrong's contribution to Manchester United after the war, it's a shame that there's next to nothing relating to him in the museum and usually only a cursory few lines in most books.

This is really good to know about. Thanks for posting! And welcome to the caf.

And yes, it would be nice if they had something on your granddad at our museum....

 

[.Rossi]

Joe Armstrong was recruited by Matt Busby & became his chief scout about 1948. He was about 15 years older than Matt and worked as a GPO engineer in Manchester. In fact, when he turned 60, in 1954, he retired from the GPO job & went full time at United! By this time, he'd already found & signed Bobby Charlton and several others.

He didn't discover Best, that was Bob Bishop, but as chief scout Joe would have overseen the process & signed him up. George's parents didn't think there was much future in football so Joe got him a job as an errand boy! Joe made the call to talk him into returning when he got homesick & went home.

Needless to say, "discovering" players is a weird one. The way people usually mean it to refer to who from United first spotted them. It's obvious that a good player at 15 and under would have been spotted by their coach or teacher. With Bobby, there was a tip-off from a teacher & what Joe did, after watching him, was get in there quickly & then hang on. until he got his man! Most books that mention Joe acknowledge that he was a bit of a charmer and he definitely had the gift of the gab. He knew how to win a player for United, which of course involved spotting them, but that was only the start. There's a chunk of text in Jim White's book about United which seems to be suggesting that illegal payments were made to parents to secure players, but he doesn't actually give any evidence, suggesting that Joe Armstrong may have had financial ways of covering his tracks! That's a pretty bizarre bit of writing for me as there's no actual evidence of anything illegal, so why imply that there was? Especially involving a character so key for United, but has been so little written about!

It definitely seems that the trick is to have a great network of "informers" (teachers and the like), a good responsive scout network and then the ability to spot whether a player has "it" or not. Then making sure you're in first and keenest! With Bobby Charlton, many clubs were in for him, but Joe had got in there first and he'd met & won over the parents as well. He apparently snuck into the train carriage with Bobby & his parents coming back from an England schoolboy international and when challenged by a teacher said he was their "Uncle Joe". Bobby always looked out for Grandad & referred to him as his Uncle Joe.

It was with the help of Joe Armstrong that Jimmy Murphy kept United running after Munich. It's a shame that he didn't figure in the BBC dramatization of the Munich Air Crash, which Sandy pointed out to the press at the time it was shown. We have several press photographs of Jimmy & Joe emerging from the United vs. Sheffield Wednesday game after Munich.

Anyway, considering Joe Armstrong's contribution to Manchester United after the war, it's a shame that there's next to nothing relating to him in the museum and usually only a cursory few lines in most books.

 

[Revan]

Joe Armstrong was recruited by Matt Busby & became his chief scout about 1948. He was about 15 years older than Matt and worked as a GPO engineer in Manchester. In fact, when he turned 60, in 1954, he retired from the GPO job & went full time at United! By this time, he'd already found & signed Bobby Charlton and several others.

He didn't discover Best, that was Bob Bishop, but as chief scout Joe would have overseen the process & signed him up. George's parents didn't think there was much future in football so Joe got him a job as an errand boy! Joe made the call to talk him into returning when he got homesick & went home.

Needless to say, "discovering" players is a weird one. The way people usually mean it to refer to who from United first spotted them. It's obvious that a good player at 15 and under would have been spotted by their coach or teacher. With Bobby, there was a tip-off from a teacher & what Joe did, after watching him, was get in there quickly & then hang on. until he got his man! Most books that mention Joe acknowledge that he was a bit of a charmer and he definitely had the gift of the gab. He knew how to win a player for United, which of course involved spotting them, but that was only the start. There's a chunk of text in Jim White's book about United which seems to be suggesting that illegal payments were made to parents to secure players, but he doesn't actually give any evidence, suggesting that Joe Armstrong may have had financial ways of covering his tracks! That's a pretty bizarre bit of writing for me as there's no actual evidence of anything illegal, so why imply that there was? Especially involving a character so key for United, but has been so little written about!

It definitely seems that the trick is to have a great network of "informers" (teachers and the like), a good responsive scout network and then the ability to spot whether a player has "it" or not. Then making sure you're in first and keenest! With Bobby Charlton, many clubs were in for him, but Joe had got in there first and he'd met & won over the parents as well. He apparently snuck into the train carriage with Bobby & his parents coming back from an England schoolboy international and when challenged by a teacher said he was their "Uncle Joe". Bobby always looked out for Grandad & referred to him as his Uncle Joe.

It was with the help of Joe Armstrong that Jimmy Murphy kept United running after Munich. It's a shame that he didn't figure in the BBC dramatization of the Munich Air Crash, which Sandy pointed out to the press at the time it was shown. We have several press photographs of Jimmy & Joe emerging from the United vs. Sheffield Wednesday game after Munich.

Anyway, considering Joe Armstrong's contribution to Manchester United after the war, it's a shame that there's next to nothing relating to him in the museum and usually only a cursory few lines in most books.

Thanks for this post! It is always nice to read things about the history of United, and it is great to see that the grandson of a very important figure for United is in this forum.

I saw United movie only last week and I was surprised to see that Armstrong wasn't mentioned there at all. But then again, Sir Matt Busby was barely seen on that movie and apparently was a very bad portrayement of him.

 

[djembatheking]

Some great posts in here , thanks . Duncan Edwards was before my time but its great to remember him , older people I know all say he was the best and unfortunately he was from a time where footage is very limited . My 16 year old son loves talking about the past greats from when I was younger but he is lucky as there is a lot of footage to back it up , he loves Eric for example , even though he wasn`t born when he was playing . Thanks again for a good read he must have been so exciting to watch .

 

[Van Gaalacticos]

I like how Charlton puts it in his book about a story already touched upon in another post.

Shortened: Jimmy Murphy was worried that the youth team were relying too much on Duncan so against Chelsea in the cup he said "Try to put more pressure on your own ability, there may be days when Dunc isn't around, you have to solve your own problems".

1-0 down at half time in the dressing room Murphy says "remember I told you not to automatically pass the ball to Duncan? Well forget what I said. Give him the fecking ball whenever you can"

2nd half Charlton takes a corner and picks out Edwards and says in the book "Duncan charging to meet it, defenders just bouncing off him as they tried to stop his run, and then he soared in the air and headed it in the top corner. I shook my head and thought what more can he do, what more can be said? It's just bloody sensational"

 

[Red Dreams]

http://www.o-posts.com/news/teams/u...wards-graphic-illustration-man-uniteds-tank/?

 

[Red Dreams]

http://www.thearsenalhistory.com/?p=12919