If we're not talking about the CL when judging how top team perform, then we should stop discussing altogether. Reason? A season is full package. Why everyone is mad at Sevilla game if the league is all that matters. Then another point is season is built upon previous season. If Zidane didn't win the first CL he would have gone if everyone is only looking at the league. There was no Double winner last season.
Dwight Yorke: "Guardiola would have won the league with this United squad"
- Thread starter United_We_Stand
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The budget excuse is a total cop-out as long as we’re among the highest spending clubs in terms of both transfers and wages. If Mourinho can’t make that work, that’s on him. Simple as.
And the club legends are probably just tired of seeing the team play with an approach to football that spits in the face of the tradition and what the club has tried to symbolise for most of its existence, week in and week out. Just like a large part of the fanbase.
It’s good enough for a small time club like Chelsea, sure. But for United? It shouldn’t be.
Pep has spent 160 million more then Jose, on a team that already had Aguero, De Bruyne, Silva, Fernandinho players that are all way better then anything we had. That''s the sole reason they are ahead of us.
The club legends can feck off together with the part of our fanbase that dickrides Pep, Klopp and Pochettino on every turn. Could care less what they did before.
You should probably read the title of the thread before posting. We are not talking about the CL. Roma who are a million miles away from winning a title almost made it to the finals. Real Madrid are not winning the title because they played crap football against smaller teams which led to many draws, whereas in a tournament like CL a draw can be a win.
Or Barcelona can get way with not turn up lie vs Roma away from home and can come out winning the game because the opposition doesn't have quality to punish them. Thread about winning title doesn't limit how result in other competition can affect a league form.
We're talking about Madrid and not one off season of L'pool here. And the consistent to get to the final stage of the difficult competition is no mere pure luck of draw doing. To keep a straight face to say they're not top team now is CL final is between 2 lesser teams than City is a bit irony given clearly City is thirsty for this trophy.
I really have no idea what you are on about. The thread is clearly about the PREMIER LEAGUE TITLE, not the FA cup, CL, Europa league or whatever.
And I've never said real madrid aren't a top team.
agreed. i don't even know why people are being so precious in this thread.
I pointed out how Madrid played as to say there is more than league in a season to judge. Are we holding Ligue 1, Bundesliga, Scottish PL title the same... The level of competition in those leagues the same?
League campaign can be influenced by other competitions. Rooney got injured in CL in 2010. He just needed to be in good form and fit to turn a draw into a win and we would have got the table. If CL can not be influence over league campaign, or CL is not important, why SAF rushed Rooney for the return leg?
Juventus is on the way to win Serie A. Are they really attacking side/ Every other week, there are people saying typical Juventus... This Barcelona team. Are they truly a force of attacking threat even compare to Madrid? Or this Barcelona is remarkably tighter at the back, differently from the previous Barcelona? Are these sides winning because the attacking philosophy or they simply know how to win games accumulate points and they have quality to do so. To the point of the thread.
He should be banned from OT with comments like that. Keep these kind of opinions out of the media you knob.
@wub1234 not a good advert for the 8 outfield players who Jose inherited tonight. Pogba was honking as well to be fair, Matic was decent at best.
But surely players like Darmain, Young, Rojo, Mata, Fellaini will not be in the 11 next season.
But surely players like Darmain, Young, Rojo, Mata, Fellaini will not be in the 11 next season.
I think one of the problems we've had post Fergie is that it seems some players are afraid to make mistakes as they believe they will be out of the line up
Or are playing knowing they need to do something that makes them undroppable whilst seeing others getting away with it
It seems like it's caused an imbalance esp when it comes to attacking
I'm not surprised by Yorkes comments. Weirdly i think Jose should have come in straight after Fergie whilst i think pep coming in after lvg might have suited us
I defo think we would have won a lot of the games we have dropped points in.
I don't agree with many that believe we have a lot of average players in our squad. Some I believe we have but I think the attacking talent we have, we should not be outscored by all the promoted teams or dropping points to the current bottom three
Or are playing knowing they need to do something that makes them undroppable whilst seeing others getting away with it
It seems like it's caused an imbalance esp when it comes to attacking
I'm not surprised by Yorkes comments. Weirdly i think Jose should have come in straight after Fergie whilst i think pep coming in after lvg might have suited us
I defo think we would have won a lot of the games we have dropped points in.
I don't agree with many that believe we have a lot of average players in our squad. Some I believe we have but I think the attacking talent we have, we should not be outscored by all the promoted teams or dropping points to the current bottom three
Posters get more passionate and aggressive defending José than I ever recall them getting when SAF came under criticism on here.
Firstly, although I'm sure that United fans are annoyed by this performance, I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from an end of season match in which United had little or nothing to play for. It's common to get this type of display, I wasn't surprised, especially with a big match looming, and some of them probably knowing that they won't be at OT next season. The FA Cup final will decide their season, if they win it then it has been a decent season in which they've got into the CL on merit, probably finished 2nd, and won a more important trophy than the ones they won last season (IMHO).
Secondly, it's not just the players you listed, it won't be long before Mourinho gets rid of Martial and Rashford because he doesn't trust young players, and never has. He's already hammered Shaw in public God knows how many times. If you're not careful then by the time he leaves (probably at the end of next season, if we are to pay heed to historical precedent) then you will have one of the oldest squads in the PL.
I believe that Guardiola would be getting more out of Martial and Rashford. The reason I believe this is that Sane and Sterling have massively improved over the last two years. Look at Mourinho's signings. Mkhitaryan has already been and gone. Ibrahimovic has been and gone. He was only ever going to be a stop-gap signing, whereas Guardiola signed Jesus, who is probably worth £60-70 million now. Pogba has been extremely disappointing. There's already talk of loaning Lindelof out, and he couldn't even get in the team this evening! I thought Bailly had done pretty well, but he's been frozen out recently, and there is talk of him leaving. Sanchez and Matic have done okay, no better than okay. Lukaku has maybe been a 7/10 performer, but I would say the jury is out on whether or not he fulfils his vast transfer fee.
That's not a great record. At some point Mourinho has to accept some culpability for this, rather than people just saying "there's nothing we can do about it because City have loads of money, and they have a better team than us". 12 months ago, very few United fans would have swapped de Bruyne, Sane and Sterling for Martial, Rashford and Pogba. Now it looks like an absolute no-brainer. That's because, in my opinion (and not only my opinion), Guardiola has vastly improved several players.
I am not saying Mourinho is a bad manager, that would be ridiculous, and it hasn't been a disastrous season for United by any means. But I would question the way he handles and coaches players, because he seems to fall out with them right, left and centre, very few of them seem to have got better, he's particularly suspicious of young players, and several of his own signings have either gone, or they're out of favour. Between the money he has spent, which is considerable, and the fact that you had three of the most promising young players in the world in de Gea, Martial and Rashford, you would think he would get a half-decent side out of it.
I'd also like to mention that you began the season like a train. So there are good performances in this team. Since the rather insipid 0-0 draw with Liverpool, you have won 18, drawn 4 and lost 7 of 29 PL games, for a points return of 58. And you scored 21 goals in your first 7 games, averaging 3 per game, since then 46 in 29, averaging just over 1.5 per game. That's why people are getting frustrated in the match threads, because it feels as if the team has gone backwards, even this season.
I actually agree with a lot of this but until we have a functioning right wing and full backs I’ll reserve over critical judgment on Jose as he’s working to a budget and as discussed before and seen tonight (not just tonight) that the squadies are substandard. As for Martial I won’t be shedding to many tears if he goes he’s shocking off the ball and has the worst movement ever.
IMO you need two things. Firstly, you need a more progressive playing style. These players have it in them because they won 6 and drew 1 of their first 7 PL games and scored 21 goals.
Secondly, you need to stop rehashing your playing squad, and getting through so many players. You need to actually show faith in some players. Go back to before Mourinho took over...in 2015-16 you signed Depay (gone), Schweinsteiger (gone), Schneiderlin (gone), Martial (going), Darmian (going). That was only three years ago! Some of those players had to go, but you have to show some faith in players at some point. Depay and Martial were long-term investments, I feel Fergie would have nurtured them and got way more out of them.
He'd certainly have us in a better position, first things first some of these players would have been long gone if Pep was our manager. Imo a better way to word this statement is that if Jose was hired by City with the team they had, even with the budget Pep has, they wouldn't be what they are now.
If Guardiola is our manager and Mourinho is charge of City they would still win the league but wouldn't be so pleasing on the eye.
Man if you think man UTD spend 50 % less than man city than you need to check the transfer fees and wages over the last two seasons and believe me you will be surprised, difference is marginal. Only difference is the player Man City brought in are playing in the starting eleven whereas Man UTD spend all that money on bench warmers. My question is why buy benchwarmers when your starting eleven needs signings, you buy starting eleven before you buy squad depth. Lately Man UTD had Felliani, Mata, Lindelof , Martial, Rojo, Shaw, Blind. The combined worth of them all is easily 250+ millions.
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/pre...tables/premier-league-table-last-five-seasons
Here is a link of all the premier league team's spending (gross, sold, net, per season) over the last 5 seasons.
https://www.google.ca/amp/www.daily...p/Rating-Manchester-United-signings-2013.html
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Is anyone else sick of our legends constantly slating the team or the manager?
You rarely see club legends from Liverpool, Chelsea or Arsenal slate their team anywhere as regularly as our legends. And apart from City, we are actually doing better than them!
Wtf is going on? It's almost like they know they'll get publicity for doing it.
As for his comment, no he wouldn't. The team would've been massively different. There's zero chance Pep would've played Young and Valencia, and most likely most of our midfield. Doubt he's keen on our forwards too. That's probably why he didn't come here because we don't have the unlimited resource he needs to shape the team to his plan.
You rarely see club legends from Liverpool, Chelsea or Arsenal slate their team anywhere as regularly as our legends. And apart from City, we are actually doing better than them!
Wtf is going on? It's almost like they know they'll get publicity for doing it.
As for his comment, no he wouldn't. The team would've been massively different. There's zero chance Pep would've played Young and Valencia, and most likely most of our midfield. Doubt he's keen on our forwards too. That's probably why he didn't come here because we don't have the unlimited resource he needs to shape the team to his plan.
Counterfactual statements are extremely hypothetical. Truth is no one knows what Guardiola would have done with this squad. What is more certain is that the style of paly would have been more enjoyable.
I've supported the Reds for 50 years and have had to live with some dire teams in that time. A period when money was short & ridicule was strong. Like now, the chosen managers between Sir Busby and Sir Ferguson were not good enough.
Mourinho might think he's special, but his management in the Premier has shown to be debatable. Yes he's won trophies.And so he should with the quality of players he's had to work with.
These years of Mourinho remind me of Dave Sexton, Tommy Docherty. Ron Atkinson did ok, but ran a drinking club.
Mournho needs to accept that this situation is nobodies fault but his.
Mourinho might think he's special, but his management in the Premier has shown to be debatable. Yes he's won trophies.And so he should with the quality of players he's had to work with.
These years of Mourinho remind me of Dave Sexton, Tommy Docherty. Ron Atkinson did ok, but ran a drinking club.
Mournho needs to accept that this situation is nobodies fault but his.
@Lawman you are too generous my friend
Aren't you a Bolton fan?
Of course he would have! You can also chuck the CL and League Cup into that, along with the FA Cup.
He always wins everything / only operates in highly competitive leagues and never has a player advantage over the other teams in the league! Amazing coach, look what he did with those unheard of, budget teams in Germany and Spain - imagine what he'd do at United, especially as we could bank roll his £500m initial, spending spree.
Wouldn't it just be easier to offer the FA £500M to make us honorary champions?
He always wins everything / only operates in highly competitive leagues and never has a player advantage over the other teams in the league! Amazing coach, look what he did with those unheard of, budget teams in Germany and Spain - imagine what he'd do at United, especially as we could bank roll his £500m initial, spending spree.
Wouldn't it just be easier to offer the FA £500M to make us honorary champions?
Thing is if Pep where here he won't have a squad with Fellaini, Matic, Valencia, Darmian, Young so yeah it's possible
Really? If Pep where here all his new signings would probably be here while likes of Fellaini, Darmian, Young, Valencia, Smalling would be long gone so I don't think so
Are you hypocrite or WUM or troll?
I'm basing it on the current squads rather than hypothetical transfers.
Lol, he just said he's keeping Darmian, don't think he's letting Young and Valencia go either, so at a point we'll just realise that these players are here not because he's forced to use them or because our club is broke and he has to work on a 'budget' They're here because they fit his purposes just fine
Well Pep would never have our current squad as he would have cleared out half of them before walking through the door
I don’t think Jose can win, and don’t see many other manager that level of scrutiny over keeping squad players to be honest. He must play a politician to keep a happy as possible changing room. I’ve been in changing rooms and believe me Darmain Blind and anyone else in there will know if they need to leave or not. But Jose can hardly say this about a big number only specific individuals if already a move is happily in motion. I’ve known of many a move set to happen and fell at late stage because of many different things. I’ve actually been flown to a club after agreeing terms with manager and chairman to find manager walked out the day after and move collapse so it’s just not that straightforward. I’ve also spoke to players (friends/teammates) about them leaving or staying and it’s not what you or the manager let out and if press or anyone ask your asked to deny it or say nothing as it can compromise the move. Just my take on it and I don’t believe Blind or Darmain or Shaw will be here next season unless no one wants them or they can’t get a salary enough and can’t agree with club some form of settlement.
It's another ex-player giving his opinion on the state of the team. Like it or not it's worth a thread.
@RedMane
Jose v Pep though.
Our disastrous transfer policy pre Jose adds little to the positive column.
Jose v Pep though.
Our disastrous transfer policy pre Jose adds little to the positive column.
He's talking bollocks. Of course City's players are superior.
For as much money as Pep spends he at least knows exactly what his team needs and who he needs to bring in, in his first season he gave everyone a chance to see how they would adapt to his system and totally cleared out all the ones that didn't fit and brought in fresh players that instantly hit form with him
That's a big advantage to have knowing you can bring in players that adapt to your system straight away and a big majority of the credit has to be put down to Guardiola's coaching as any manager can spend money on players but to have all of them embrace his system so fast and so effectively really speaks volumes of just how good of a coach he is
Since when do you have to be an excellent manager to comment on others?
Yorke is a great manager I presume.
If that was the rule, this place would be very quiet as I guess none of us are better than the manager or any players.
Pep is superior. It's hardly a revelation from Yorke. It's pretty obvious.
Don't make the man choose
Agree with this. City are superior in personnel at the moment, and Guardiola with our current team would fall short of them imo.
He's probably right, but only because Pep managing us would mean he wouldn't be managing City. City are perfectly tailored to Pep, I'd argue that only Klopp or Poch could only get the most out of it. Jose certainly wouldn't.
It would be funny watching him go insane as Smalling and Jones try and play intricately around the back.
It would be funny watching him go insane as Smalling and Jones try and play intricately around the back.
That's most likely true but like I said you can't really base it on anything else.