Dyke's Plan to Restrict Non-EU Players

[Rednotdead]

Sorry if this has been posted already, I looked for a relevant thread but couldn't find it.

Dyke's plan to restrict the quality and numbers of non-EU players coming to this country is basically laid out here :

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...-to-slash-number-of-non-EU-players-in-England

Without going into the arguments for and against, I'm broadly for it. I think there are too many average -class non-EU players in our game, just because they're cheap to get.

What do you think?

 

[MJJ]

Sorry if this has been posted already, I looked for a relevant thread but couldn't find it.

Dyke's plan to restrict the quality and numbers of non-EU players coming to this country is basically laid out here :

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...-to-slash-number-of-non-EU-players-in-England

Without going into the arguments for and against, I'm broadly for it. I think there are too many average -class non-EU players in our game, just because they're cheap to get.

What do you think?

I dont get it, whats the goal here? If its to make clubs buy english players thats not going to happen. You are basically replacing Non-EU players with EU(Except england) players due to them being cheaper and better.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

As long as there are enough average-class EU players in our game.

Just not those weird foreigners.

 

[Rednotdead]

As long as there are enough average-class EU players in our game.

Just not those weird foreigners.

EU players can't be stopped coming here, average or not. Non-EU players can.

 

[Rednotdead]

I dont get it, whats the goal here? If its to make clubs buy english players thats not going to happen. You are basically replacing Non-EU players with EU(Except england) players due to them being cheaper and better.

I think the aim is to provide opportunities for young English players to play and develop. At the moment you've got the likes of Chelsea and Man City bringing in young non-EU players in droves then loaning them out just to see who makes it and who doesn't.

Is it any coincidence that countries like Germany and Holland who have relatively fewer non-EU players in their leagues are far more successful at both producing players and competing internationally?

 

[Ducklegs]

Dyke is attacking the problem from the wrong angle as usual.

Give the players the choice of decent quality English players and I am sure they would take it.

Just saying here, there you go fellas you can't have any more Colombians, Africans, Argentinians etc shove that in your pipe and smoke it.
Then low and behold the league is full of world class players from Putney and Slough, doesn't happen.

Get local football clubs run by the FA, get football camps run by the FA, get FA talent scouts in at schools, local leagues, liase with clubs and and get them to see what you are doing and offer them a CHOICE first.

 

[acnumber9]

I think the aim is to provide opportunities for young English players to play and develop. At the moment you've got the likes of Chelsea and Man City bringing in young non-EU players in droves then loaning them out just to see who makes it and who doesn't.

Is it any coincidence that countries like Germany and Holland who have relatively fewer non-EU players in their leagues are far more successful at both producing players and competing internationally?

Yes. Those nations have been better for a long time. Having less non EU players is not the issue.

 

[Hal9000]

I dont get it, whats the goal here? If its to make clubs buy english players thats not going to happen. You are basically replacing Non-EU players with EU(Except england) players due to them being cheaper and better.

It's just a way of giving more chances to young English players.

It stops clubs stockpiling young non-eu players in youth/reserve systems that take places of English youth, makes more spaces available in the lower leagues and due to restrictions in what non-eu players can come in, it will force teams to look at the English market.

Yes it may make teams look more towards EU players, but then every club will and in turn probably will have to look at the domestic marker. The restrictions may make space for 1 or 2 extra English players per team, especially when it comes to youth.

You look at Chelsea's youth system, which is stockpiled full of Brazilian and African players. Stopping that will mean more space for Chelsea to train up English youth.

Many EU leagues already have similar restrictions in place.

 

[Hal9000]

Yes. Those nations have been better for a long time. Having less non EU players is not the issue.

Germany used to have restrictions till 2007 though. Both have restrictions over non EU youth.

 

[acnumber9]

Germany used to have restrictions till 2007 though. Both have restrictions over non EU youth.

And what was the reason they were better in the 70's, 80's and 90's?

 

[Rednotdead]

And what was the reason they were better in the 70's, 80's and 90's?

They produced better players.

No one's saying this is the single magical solution to England producing better players, rather it's a part of that solution. There are other factors that are being addressed as well.

 

[Dans]

Hot on the heels of United signing Di Maria, Falcao and Rojo.

Perhaps this is the only way we can move Anderson on?

 

[Kill 'em all]

English footballers haven't got the character, discipline and will to succeed and this won't change anything.

 

[Rednotdead]

English footballers haven't got the character, discipline and will to succeed and this won't change anything.

Best just not bother trying then.

 

[MJJ]

I think the aim is to provide opportunities for young English players to play and develop. At the moment you've got the likes of Chelsea and Man City bringing in young non-EU players in droves then loaning them out just to see who makes it and who doesn't.

Is it any coincidence that countries like Germany and Holland who have relatively fewer non-EU players in their leagues are far more successful at both producing players and competing internationally?

Are you aware that EU doesnt compose just of england right? They will just try and sign young european players instead of the english ones. Germany and Holland are successful due to the level of coaching which is extremely high.

It's just a way of giving more chances to young English players.

It stops clubs stockpiling young non-eu players in youth/reserve systems that take places of English youth, makes more spaces available in the lower leagues and due to restrictions in what non-eu players can come in, it will force teams to look at the English market.

Yes it may make teams look more towards EU players, but then every club will and in turn probably will have to look at the domestic marker. The restrictions may make space for 1 or 2 extra English players per team, especially when it comes to youth.

You look at Chelsea's youth system, which is stockpiled full of Brazilian and African players. Stopping that will mean more space for Chelsea to train up English youth.

Many EU leagues already have similar restrictions in place.

You dont think they do this already? The reason they dont sign them is because they are expensive and technically inferior. Look at the fee at which we signed jones/smalling and the fee at which ginter moved. No club in their right mind would stockpile the like of the former over the latter.

 

[crappycraperson]

People were moaning when we Rojo was facing work permit issues, something like this would just make that worse. As far as I know Germany do not have any such restrictions in place so using them as an example does not work. Giving more opportunities to English youngsters won't automatically make them better. Cleverly got his chance to make a mark at United, but you can't start replicating likes of Iniesta. Reform the training and coaching youngsters go through at lower levels and english youths will automatically get their chance

 

[Getsme]

Stop the ridiculous over pricing of British players and Clubs will be more likely to buy them.

 

[zvezdar]

It's all about getting the training and coaching right at the grass roots level. Restricting non-EU players in the leagues won't change that.

Look at the numbers and quality of coaches in England, it is far below countries that are producing more talented players.

If England was producing young talent then the average non-EU players wouldnt be coming in, clubs would have ample cheap English talent to choose from (you wont have an English premium if you have craploads of good players to choose from).

Restrictions are political solution to a footballing problem.

 

[Phil]

You just work on improving the quality of our players, Dykey.

 

[devilish]

Can we restrict the number of british talent? They are often overrated, overpriced, with the wrong attitude

Seriously if brit talent was genuinely good then it wouldnt need this sort of crap

 

[Stobzilla]

Can we restrict the number of british talent? They are often overrated, overpriced, with the wrong attitude

Seriously if brit talent was genuinely good then it wouldnt need this sort of crap

If more lads of requisite technical quality were coming through then you would solve all three of those issues.

 

[devilish]

If more lads of requisite technical quality were coming through then you would solve all three of those issues.

Theres something really wrong going on. Even elite academies like united are failing to produce quality british talent on an acceptable level especially since we were perfectly capable of doing that with young imports such as januzaj, pogba and rossi.

I believe that the major problem is that they are spoiled and overrated. You only have to read the welbeck thread to notice it

 

[Rednotdead]

Are you aware that EU doesnt compose just of england right? They will just try and sign young european players instead of the english ones. Germany and Holland are successful due to the level of coaching which is extremely high.

Yes, I'm well aware of that. Changes are being made to the way we produce players but what's the point if - unlike Germany and Holland - they're never going to get the chance to play and develop?

You dont think they do this already? The reason they dont sign them is because they are expensive and technically inferior. Look at the fee at which we signed jones/smalling and the fee at which ginter moved. No club in their right mind would stockpile the like of the former over the latter.

Not as things stand, but things need to change.

What would be your solution to the problem of producing better English players then?

 

[FromTheBench]

What a nonsense idea.

Puts English clubs at a disadvantage compared to foreign clubs as Work Permit restrictions are already tough.

And there's no real point to it as well.

 

[FromTheBench]

You look at Chelsea's youth system, which is stockpiled full of Brazilian and African players. Stopping that will mean more space for Chelsea to train up English youth.

Eh ?

Brazillian and African youngsters don't get Work Permits. Hence us missing out Essien etc.. while Italian/Spanish/French/Portuguese clubs can bring them in.

 

[Rednotdead]

What a nonsense idea.

Puts English clubs at a disadvantage compared to foreign clubs as Work Permit restrictions are already tough.

And there's no real point to it as well.

Work permit restrictions aren't "very tough" at all at present, rather they're very lax.

122 non-EU players have entered England under the GBE scheme since 2009. Nearly 50% didn't meet the current criteria and came through an appeal process in which 79% of appellants have been successful. Remarkably, only 58% given work visas to play in the Premier League play any football in that league in the second season after their arrival.

 

[FromTheBench]

I think the aim is to provide opportunities for young English players to play and develop. At the moment you've got the likes of Chelsea and Man City bringing in young non-EU players in droves then loaning them out just to see who makes it and who doesn't.

Is it any coincidence that countries like Germany and Holland who have relatively fewer non-EU players in their leagues are far more successful at both producing players and competing internationally?

Firstly most of them are EU players as it is. And they buy and loan the Non EU players out because they can't get work permits.

How does this solve anything ?

This smacks of doing something for the sake of seeming to do something short term. Go and put in a long term plan and Reform the academy system rather than putting English clubs at a competitive disadvantage for the sake of it without even increasing chances or solving anything.

 

[Rednotdead]

Eh ?

Brazillian and African youngsters don't get Work Permits. Hence us missing out Essien etc.. while Italian/Spanish/French/Portuguese clubs can bring them in.

Rafael and Fabio came here in Jan 2007, at the age of 16. Must be illegal immigrants

 

[FromTheBench]

Work permit restrictions aren't "very tough" at all at present, rather they're very lax.

122 non-EU players have entered England under the GBE scheme since 2009. Nearly 50% didn't meet the current criteria and came through an appeal process in which 79% of appellants have been successful. Remarkably, only 58% given work visas to play in the Premier League play any football in that league in the second season after their arrival.

122 Non EU players in the whole football league ? Yeah, the Work Permit restrictions make it pretty tough for young players to be stockpiled in academies like some are claiming.

Barcelona can bring in Messi or Porto/Italian clubs can buy a James Rodriguez at young age but United can't despite scouting him at a young age because they won't get a work permit and he might not agree to being loaned out which is something that Greg Dyke cannot block anyway.

 

[Hal9000]

Eh ?

Brazillian and African youngsters don't get Work Permits. Hence us missing out Essien etc.. while Italian/Spanish/French/Portuguese clubs can bring them in.

Yes they do, can argue they are exceptional talent.

You have Piazon, Traore, Rodriquez, Davilla, Arsu, Cuevas, Wallace and Omeruo all at Chelsea from South America + Africa.

Some are hitting 20/21 now, but they've been at Chelsea for a few years.

 

[Rednotdead]

Firstly most of them are EU players as it is. And they buy and loan the Non EU players out because they can't get work permits.

How does this solve anything ?

This smacks of doing something for the sake of seeming to do something short term. Go and put in a long term plan and Reform the academy system rather than putting English clubs at a competitive disadvantage for the sake of it without even increasing chances or solving anything.

Nobody is saying this is the only measure being taken to improve the quality of the players we produce. It's just one part - along with how players are coached at a younger age.

 

[FromTheBench]

Rafael and Fabio came here in Jan 2007, at the age of 16. Must be illegal immigrants

They had Italian Passports. So they are EU nationals.

Didn't require a Work Permit.

They came at 18 anyway as Brazillians aren't allowed to move abroad before that age. Though agreement was in place from before.

 

[FromTheBench]

Nobody is saying this is the only measure being taken to improve the quality of the players we produce. It's just one part - along with how players are coached at a younger age.

This is no part. This is just stupidly doing something for the sake of doing something and putting the clubs at a competitive disadvantage without even solving 1/2 % of the issue.

 

[BobbyManc]

"a minimum transfer fee - of around £15m - that would enable ANY non-EU player to join an English club."

So basically one rule for the rich clubs and another one for everyone else.

 

[FromTheBench]

Yes they do, can argue they are exceptional talent.

You have Piazon, Traore, Rodriquez, Davilla, Arsu, Cuevas, Wallace and Omeruo all at Chelsea from South America + Africa.

Some are hitting 20/21 now, but they've been at Chelsea for a few years.

I think They either all have EU passports in which case nothing can be changed.

Or they all are out on loan because they can't get work permits in which case nothing can be changed. And they are not blocking any British youngsters directly anyway.


Infact in terms of English youngsters the biggest block of so called 'outsiders" in the academy system by a distance comes from rest of the british nations.

 

[Kag]

Meanwhile, our 17-21 year old lads playing in the U21 reserve league play ONE game next month, during a crucial period of their development.

The problems are a lot closer to home and nothing seems to be done about it. Our young players are playing one competitive game of football next month, but yes Greg, it's the foreign invasion holding them back.

 

[steeeb]

He thinks we need to limit it so clubs buy more English players.

It's just he can't do it for EU players because there is a law against it.

Why not invest in coaching instead?

 

[Hal9000]

I think They all have EU passports in which case nothing can be changed.

Or they all are out on loan because they can't get work permits in which case nothing can be changed. And they are not blocking any British youngsters directly anyway.

Piazon does not have a EU passport, had to get a visa, and spent time in Chelsea youth/reserves before loans. Same with a lot of them.

The visa system is a hurdle, but it does not stop younger non-eu players being signed.

Angelo Hernandez is another example for us.

Can't do anything about loans? The changes will stop teams signing players on loan and farming them out for a few years on loan. In effect they will block British players eventually. They go out on loan 2/3 years, then qualify for Visa or EU passport and they come back to the parent team. Who misses out?

 

[Cal?]

I think the aim is to provide opportunities for young English players to play and develop. At the moment you've got the likes of Chelsea and Man City bringing in young non-EU players in droves then loaning them out just to see who makes it and who doesn't.

Is it any coincidence that countries like Germany and Holland who have relatively fewer non-EU players in their leagues are far more successful at both producing players and competing internationally?

Yes, you've also conveniently ignored Spain who won everything for years and years and have just as many if not more non-EU players in their league.

 

[Hal9000]

He thinks we need to limit it so clubs buy more English players.

It's just he can't do it for EU players because there is a law against it.

Why not invest in coaching instead?

They already are. They have St George's park up now, which aside from the England NT base, it is a training center used for coaches.

The EPPP has been put in place as well.

The main issue is the now is the amount of hands on time players get with coaches, and the poor grassroots system in this country.