Vini was 18 at the time we signed him. Hazard was 28. He was supposed to carry the team those 2-4 years before Vini could take over/we signed Mbappé. Alas...
Eden Hazard | "It's time to enjoy life drinking beers"
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
This. And the sad part is he really tried to get back to some semblance of a good player, just couldn't do it...
He is in the next one, Van Persie too for that matter.
He's in the second group, but there are some players in the first group that belong in the second group too.
I'd say it turned out alright.Vini was 18 at the time we signed him. Hazard was 28. He was supposed to carry the team those 2-4 years before Vini could take over/we signed Mbappé. Alas...
Yeah its so sad in that time that you've only witnessed league titles and UCL success with the current Ballon D'orVini was 18 at the time we signed him. Hazard was 28. He was supposed to carry the team those 2-4 years before Vini could take over/we signed Mbappé. Alas...
Who would be in the first group that belong to the 2nd group?
All of them bar Henry and Ronaldo.
Hazard has been such a flop. At 28 he should have been at the peak of his powers for several more years. Look at Robben for comparison or Ribery.Vini was 18 at the time we signed him. Hazard was 28. He was supposed to carry the team those 2-4 years before Vini could take over/we signed Mbappé. Alas...
Id say you’re spot on.
Hazard is a top 20 PL player, not a top 10.
He’s 100% in the second bracket.
Peak Hazard is a tier 1 player in the premier league. He doesn't compare favorably against the others in terms of longevity.
How? Vidic belongs in the first group he’s one of the best cbs in PL history captain of one of the more successful sides and PFA Player of the year. Suarez had probably the greatest season in PL history apart from Ronaldo, but you could leave him out due to longevity. There is no way you can leave Salah out of the top tier though, he is literally PL highest scorer, 3 time top scorer in the league, 1 time playmaker of the year, and has top 3-4 Pl seasons of all time in his first season, there is no credible argument where he isn’t in tier 1.
Shearer is the greatest Pl scorer of all time and gets there by default, he has longevity as well.
Tier 1 for me would include: Vidic, Cantona, Keane, Ronaldo, Henry Salah, Rio has the dead certs.
Lampard VVD Rooney Drogba Terry Gerrrard Scholes De Bruyne could all possibly be in tier 1 or 2.
I struggle to know where to put Giggs he really should be tier 1 but he never hit the peaks the names I mentioned in that tier did, but longevity wise he shits on all those players from a distance.
Yeah pretty much. Very exclusive group. Then tier 2 would have all the usual PL greats and legends. Tier 3 would have all the remaining world class players.
Can't do anything about career-altering injuries
I disagree, but I understand your perspective.
Where do you rate Zola, Cech, Lampard and Terry? Just so I can gauge it from your view point?
Tier 3 - Zola
Tier 2 - Cech, Lampard Terry along all the other PL greats like Gerrard, Aguero etc.
Tier 2 is bigger pool obviously, and Tier 3 will be an even bigger pool. It's not scientific though, so I can be convinced of this player belonging to this or that group.
I would put Carvalho in tier 2 aswell if I'm honest.
He would be a £100m plus defender in today's game.
I think that’s where we differ to some extent.
So I’d have Terry in the same bracket as Rio and Vidic. Lampard and Scholes too (2)
I’d put Zola in with Cantona (3)
Perhaps Hazard sits between the 2-3 for me.
I don’t see him as the same as the 2 bracket but would accept he’s just above the 3.
Nah. Great player but he’s not on par with Terry, Rio, Vidic etc
Cantona is higher than Hazard, the main man in the team that won 4/5 titles at the start of the premier league.
I wouldn't personally. Great player of course, but I think he's gotten a tad overrated over the years to the point where people have started attributing Terry's success to Carvalho's presence.
The lack of European success somewhat separates him in my mind but I’d not fight you over it. Not from Hazard but from the names I put in tier 2.
He was my idol as a kid.
I don't see him as an equal Tier 2 member as Lampard, Gerrard etc but he belongs in there for me. As does Cantona for what it's worth.
Ronaldo is a great footballer but most of his greatness were in La Liga. I will say Salah has outdone Ronaldo in EPL already
In EPL the tier 1 to me (peak performance + longevity) will be Henry Shearer Vidic and Salah
Peak performance alone without longevity Ronaldo Suarez
I don't think Hazard belongs in this group as he never had the peaks these guys had
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I can't be bothered to get into player comparison arguments but he'd (Carvalho) would be considered gold dust in this modern game in my opinion.
He was elite at playing it out from the back both with passing and dribbling (for a specific reference his action for Joe Cole's goal vs Liverpool in 2007), had the pace to cope playing in highlines and on top of that was a top defender.
When you consider how valuable even so so defenders who can do the first two at the top class level have been in recent times I could have seen him being quite sort after.
I for sure didn't agree with that (Terry won a league at 34 next to Cahill) but I do feel Carvalho was top class in his own right.
I feel maybe his early decline (he was pretty poor in the Scolari/Hiddink season and a liability in Ancelotti's double year) works against him in terms of general perception.
I don't see the argument for making Ronaldo into tier 1 but excludes Salah. Salah 2017 to 2022 >> Ronaldo 2007 to 2009
As I say, great player, but he’s no Terry, Rio or Vidic.
When the debate is about tiers he’s good but not quite in the same tier as the very best to play in the PL. The longevity has to play a factor. Stam won more than Carvalho, including a European Cup, but was only in the PL for 4 years.
Obviously my opinion. It’s all subjective.
I will agree with most of this But personally drop Terry below Vidic.
Zola Cantona and Hazard in tier 3
Obviously this will be subjective
Salah plays for Liverpool = cnuts
I agree. I wouldn’t even have Ronaldo in tier 1. Not for United anyway. 2 seasons of his entire career that was pretty spectacular. But that’s not enough for me. A La Liga tier 0 and Prem tier 2 at best.
I mean Ronaldo eclipses anything Hazard did…
The numbers speak for themselves over his last 4 seasons;
12 in 47
23 in 53
42 in 49
26 in 53
Then when he returned;
24 in 38
3 PL titles
2 League Cups
1 FA Cup
1 European Cup
He’s got more goals than Hazard in less games and won more.
To suggest he’s tier 2 ‘at best’ is ridiculous
Probably agree with that. Zola is still the best player ive seen at Chelsea. His ability with the ball etc.
But i also think when Hazard was with us and on his game, he was the best player in the league. Slight bias, too
Let’s agree to disagree then. What I see is one amazing season, 2 great seasons and an ok season. 4 seasons isn’t enough to be considered PL tier 1 in my opinion. Team honours don’t particularly count towards individual success and you’re using his total season stats to justify his place in this theoretical league tier system. While his stats for his final 4 seasons are still impressive he only passed 20 goals in one season. In his first 3 seasons he was outshone by Robben who got a move to Madrid earlier because of it. Again, phenomenal at his peak but his peak was not United.I mean Ronaldo eclipses anything Hazard did…
The numbers speak for themselves over his last 4 seasons;
12 in 47
23 in 53
42 in 49
26 in 53
Then when he returned;
24 in 38
3 PL titles
2 League Cups
1 FA Cup
1 European Cup
He’s got more goals than Hazard in less games and won more.
To suggest he’s tier 2 ‘at best’ is ridiculous
Also Balon D'or winner in 08I mean Ronaldo eclipses anything Hazard did…
The numbers speak for themselves over his last 4 seasons;
12 in 47
23 in 53
42 in 49
26 in 53
Then when he returned;
24 in 38
3 PL titles
2 League Cups
1 FA Cup
1 European Cup
He’s got more goals than Hazard in less games and won more.
To suggest he’s tier 2 ‘at best’ is ridiculous
As said by @OmarUnited4ever he won the Ballon d’Or whilst at United and in the PL.
If that, along with the rest, isn’t enough to say he’s tier one, there’s definitely going to be no one else in that bracket either.
To suggest he’s tier two ‘at best’ as though he’d be lucky to even get in that bracket is silly.
Can't be real. If it is, it's worse than Shaw and Ando combined both at their extremities.
He looks fine in other photos from the match. https://www.marca.com/futbol/real-madrid/2023/01/04/63b4b5e4268e3e540c8b45b3.html
He played like shit, but then again, everyone did.
He played like shit, but then again, everyone did.