I never said G/A alone determine a player's quality. But players, who are truly elite, tend to pick them up in a regular fashion, so they tend to have more than one singular assist in CL knockout games after playing the competition for 10 years.
Eden Hazard | "It's time to enjoy life drinking beers"
- Thread starter Samid
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People are going to hate, but I think he deserves respect for having such self awareness and seeing the bigger picture in life. His best playing days are clearly behind him. He had a great career. Made a ton of money. Why try to stretch it out unnecessarily? Not playing another few years may be the reason why he’s able to play with his kids on the daily rather than being too broken down. Go enjoy the fruits of your labor.
He was never the 3rd best player in the world and never would have been the undisputed best without Messi and Ronaldo.I know everything needs to be revised and rewritten for hot takes, but come on, he absolutely, 100%, undebatably more than "fulfilled" his potential. He very possibly was the third best player in the world for most of the 2010s, and would have been the undisputable best several seasons if not for the two monsters. It was an awful signing for Madrid, but he already had nothing to prove by then, and Madrid took it in stride as well, so no harm done
Many would disagree.
No that’s not ridiculous. He was definately in the conversation for being the best behind them at one time.
He was a funny one. Undoubtedly a great player but somehow never scared me. You always knew he'd overplay it or miss the pass by trying too many dribbles.
Really? He single-handily tore teams apart when in the mood.
I’d have him down as one of the few players to genuinely fear
Make a poll on here and the majority would agree with me.
He was never better than Neymar or Suarez.
He was great for Chelsea, though I do think the club/teams held him back. His prime years playing for the likes of Di Matteo, washed Mourinho and Conte, Benitez…
Think he would have reached even greater heights in a different environment. With a better team around him and managers.
Think he would have reached even greater heights in a different environment. With a better team around him and managers.
He mastered the Lazarus-like resurrection after rolling around 30 times following a tackle. He did this weird hop-skip-jog thing which I can still quite vividly visualise in my head before being able to run full pelt again.
I actually agree. Statistically the best season of his career came under Sarri, which is no surprise. In previous years our team was set up in a way that the entire attack ran through him. He was mostly the sole creative force in teams that were built to be strong, solid and defensive.
Never really turned up here though. He only scored twice in the league against us. I remember him always trying to do too much himself and wasting chances.
@kaiser1 Do you have any positive takes on Hazard at all? By far and away the most prolific poster in this thread going back years and your sole contribution appears t to be to piss all over any praise for Hazard anyone dares to post in here
I find him as one of the most overrated players who lacked decisive output. Who plays to entertain himself first and the team goals later. Its not unusual to see Hazard dribble a player then stop completely and wait for the opponent to regroup so he can dribble them all over
I don't think a player who dragged a team over the line in a title race twice can be classed as lacking decisive output.
Yes he should have done better in the UCL (which for me puts him behind Bale, Salah) but this idea he was lacking end product is so far away from reality I don't know where to start.
Then what are we talking about? Not sure why you brought up Willian, a worse player, to prove a non-existent point.
"Stats don't determine a player's quality, but he has worse stats than his teammate"
Ok.
Spectacular player for Chelsea. One of the best dribblers in the league's history but also very creative. Wrongly criticised for his goal output when you genuinely consider his influence for the team and stifling the opposition.
If had to remove bias and do an all time league 11 he'd certainly be in there with Ronaldo on opposite side for me.
If had to remove bias and do an all time league 11 he'd certainly be in there with Ronaldo on opposite side for me.
I think you're misremembering those games. In his latter Chelsea years where they were pretty poor overall, he was a one man wrecking machine. They gave the ball to him and let him try to do the damage. We had to set up to stop him alone, I remember Herrera sticking to him like glue wherever he went and our defense packing out his side. We were scared to death of him. If we'd have set up normally then he would have wrecked us.
Everyone set up against Chelsea with one tactic...stop Hazard.
You can’t just dismiss 1 assist in the CL knockout rounds as irrelevant. His point is fairly clear; stats are not the only determinant of a player’s quality, but they are a useful one.
The main benefit of stats is they can easily summarise a wide range of games into a single understandable idea. I’m sure you can’t remember most of those CL knockout games, and what you can remember is vague extremes. You can’t describe his contribution in all of those games in a single sentence. But you can use that 1 assist stat as an indicator that he often came up short. That’s too often over too long a period to ignore.
Hazard was great in the PL, and in one international tournament. His contribution outside of that knocks him down a level.
Agreed he should have thought more wisely than joining Chelsea who are known for their defensive football.
If he spent his best years in a more attack minded club he may be praised more overall.
If he spent his best years in a more attack minded club he may be praised more overall.
Can't help, but love the guy. I also put a lot weight on aesthetics and Hazard at his absolute best was jaw-dropping to watch (they don't make them like that anymore), all that while carrying Chelsea to 2 EPL titles in very defensive setups. Seems like a great guy as well and his laid-back attitude never bothered me.
Also, I don't think he would ever be such an exciting player to watch at his peak if he didn't have mentioned attitude. Yeah, he could have done more, but in my book he will always be one of the most electrifying players to show up in EPL.
Also, I don't think he would ever be such an exciting player to watch at his peak if he didn't have mentioned attitude. Yeah, he could have done more, but in my book he will always be one of the most electrifying players to show up in EPL.
Ah yes, someone, who mainly played at CM and actually has more assists in CL finals than Hazard has in any CL knockout games.
I remember that being as much him trying to do everything himself as them giving him the ball and letting him do the damage. Bit of both.
Like you say we stopped him with Ander Herrera. Should that happen to the third best player in the world?
Herrera was one of the most effective midfield tacklers in the world at the time, so why not? Third best player in the world can have off-games as well, like Mbappé has had many times and stopped by far worse players. Even Tuanzebe had Mbappé in his pocket.
He was never the 3rd best player in the world at any moment in his career, let's be serious here.
I had a look at the Ballon d'Or during his prime, and there isn't any year when he deserved to be in the top 5. He came closest in 2015 but the players picked ahead of him were better.
I had a look at the Ballon d'Or during his prime, and there isn't any year when he deserved to be in the top 5. He came closest in 2015 but the players picked ahead of him were better.
For me one of the most overrated players of any generation.
Not saying he was a bad player, he obviously wasn't, but he has no business being anywhere near the conversations around best players in the world not named Messi or Ronaldo.
My perception of him, which I'm open to being corrected on by stats experts, was that he was an excellent penalty taker (World class) and a sizeable chunk of his goals were penalties. He was never the man to do it for you at the truly highest level as evidenced by his ridiculous CL record and him completely floppingbat the big club. I think it is telling that the 2 title wins at Chelsea were during that transition period between the end of SAF and the true rise of City. The competition was less and as such he could "drag them" to 2 titles while not actually producing anything that drops your jaw numbers wise.
Not saying he was a bad player, he obviously wasn't, but he has no business being anywhere near the conversations around best players in the world not named Messi or Ronaldo.
My perception of him, which I'm open to being corrected on by stats experts, was that he was an excellent penalty taker (World class) and a sizeable chunk of his goals were penalties. He was never the man to do it for you at the truly highest level as evidenced by his ridiculous CL record and him completely floppingbat the big club. I think it is telling that the 2 title wins at Chelsea were during that transition period between the end of SAF and the true rise of City. The competition was less and as such he could "drag them" to 2 titles while not actually producing anything that drops your jaw numbers wise.
Its a guy who thought Hazard didn't have a good game VS Brazil in the world cup 2018 because he didn't have a shot on target.@kaiser1 Do you have any positive takes on Hazard at all? By far and away the most prolific poster in this thread going back years and your sole contribution appears t to be to piss all over any praise for Hazard anyone dares to post in here
Oh, case closed! G+A stats in CL KO is the defining stat for all attacking players! Ronaldo >>> Messi, Lampard > Iniesta.
You do realise Hazard won most of those penalties dont you?.
I always see these types of posts on Hazard but then those same people rate David Silva. Its like one rule for Hazard one rule for another player.
Yep, he’ll always be divisive in opinions as well because it’s (almost) an argument of the eye test over the underlying stats. Would probably tend to lead to some overrating him, whilst otherwise will tend to underrate him.
As we all know though (or should know), football today is measured far greater in terms of the UCL and/or international competitions, versus just “domestic leagues”. That’s how it’s been for a while now and by that metric, Hazard mostly fell short (when compared to others) and will thus not get the recognition. Fair enough.
Enjoy the beers, lad!
This is fun.
Amazing how he went from playing 50 games a season at Chelsea to about 20 at Real. Has to be one of the biggest career drop offs. Worse than Torres or Shevchenko.
Maybe he just looked at Bale and thought, it doesn't matter what I do, these cnuts are just going to hate me anyway. What's the point?
Maybe he just looked at Bale and thought, it doesn't matter what I do, these cnuts are just going to hate me anyway. What's the point?
If you think only Messi and Ronaldo are the only players better than Hazard then there’s no point discussing it because we are so far apart.
Second this
is his peak even shorter than Ronaldinho ?
Anyone watch his Lille side win the league ? He got POTS but how much he carry them?
He didn't carry them because they were very good as a team but he was by some distance their best player and the best player in Ligue 1 at the exception of maybe his first season where he was one of the best but probably not the best.
Actually think he was underrated. What he was capable of was higher than most of the apparently top players today.
What was your opinion about him when he was at his peak?
Agree with everything, especially the bolded part. One of the reasons why I probably rate him higher is that I had him on my eye week in, week out. The fact he put some great performances against us and was genuinely the one player in that Chelsea team who made me uncomfortable going into the match certainly adds to that. On top of that, EPL as a league realistically has more weight, in the last decade or more, than some others. It pretty much took the place of what was Serie A in the end of 80's and throughout the 90's. As a side note, it looks like it's strength will only grow in the future as a result of crazy money that is been involved and which other leagues just can't follow to such extent. It's probably just peaking with the likes of Newcastle joining the race and all the teams in the middle being loaded as well.
And for me, there is something likeable about the guy which I can't say about many other players of EPL rival. David Silva, De Bruyne, Kante and Thiago Silva would also be in that company (likable/respectable - despite playing for the opposition).