England's greatest player from 1990-2010?

[Ole'sbodyguard]

Gascoinge.

Had the biggest impact of any English player in an international tournament in 90 since 66, was easily the most naturally talented English player of the last 30 years, and was as good as anyone else in his position in that tournament bar Mattheus. No other emerging player was close to how good he was in that tournament and if you compare him to others who were emerging in their early 20's at the time he was street ahead of them at that tournament(Baggio, Romario, etc).

If Gascoinge had been stronger mentally or had a better discipline in his career post World Cup 90, he had all that talent before the injuries to have been up there with Baggio, Romario, Laudrup, and later Ronaldo, Zidane as the world's best player. There's not another English player since Charlton you can say that about.

Gazza was about half the player in Euro 96, even if he had a decent tournamet by other English players standards.

If you are going off sustained career I would go with Beckham whose record and number of caps speak for itself.

Personally I think you would have had to have watched Italia 90 regularly or seen him for three years from 88-91 to realise how good he actually was. I can't think of a better of a more complete attacking player or a more exciting natural talent.

Would have loved to have seen him play for United.

 

[apotheosis]

Beckham and Scholes both scored in 3 tournaments, fwiw. As many as Shearer (though not as many as Shearer)

In fact of Scholes' 14 international goals, only 2 were in uncompetitive games. Of Beckham's 17 only 4 were.

True, and Beckham is also the only England player to score in 3 WC's. Generally he was not as consistent as Owen was imo, Beckham will be remembered mainly for his sending off against Argentina, and his defining performance against Greece. Owen had a few defining performances and a consistent stream of goals when it counted on top of that.

England national team
Year Apps Goals
1998 12 4
1999 6 1
2000 6 3
2001 8 6
2002 12 5
2003 9 5
2004 13 4
2005 9 7
2006 5 1
2007 8 4
2008 1 0
Total 89 40

 

[apotheosis]

tbf, Scholes was like Englands best left winger in that period....and it did produce some the best games I've seen by England too. He himself just didn't like it, doesn't mean it wasn't an failed experiment, he would of retired anyway, at most just a couple of years later.

Scholes doesn't like to be overlooked. By picking him on the left Sven was basically saying he preferred Lampard over Scholes in the middle. That would have been enough for Scholes imo.

I think that was why he retired from Utd and then came back. He didn't think he was going to be first choice, so he lost interest. After injuries he knew he would be first choice and he proved he has still got it.

I am actually still a bit frustrated that we will not remember Scholes for England as we do for Utd. Why do England have such a talent for wasting talent? Hoddle, Scholes, Le Tiss, Gerrard, Lampard, Les Ferdinand, Rooney, Fowler, Andy Cole, Ian Wright, Carrick, Barnes, McManaman. We just can't seem to get the best out of very talented players.

Could it be we waste the best coaches too? Clougie, Tel and hoddle were all top coaches and yet we never really got the most of their talent either.

Apologies for digressing rcoobc, frustrating when we look at the players we have had and how poorly most of them contributed, given what we know they were easily capable of.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Shearer...goals galore

 

[rcoobc]

Apologies for digressing rcoobc, frustrating when we look at the players we have had and how poorly most of them contributed, given what we know they were easily capable of.

Absolutely fine my good man, discussion is paramount to success.

 

[Zen]

I'd definitely take Beckhams tournament goals over Owens.....they were more decisive, none of Owens tournament goals really made any difference in the big picture of the games outcome, he only scored once in a winning game(probably the only WC game England won comfortably in that era, vs Denmark).

Also on wasting talent......you just named like 5 strikers, who all played in the same era, of whom, most were a better to replace Shearer than play with him, so that's kind of an unfair criticism. Sheringham-Shearer was a class pair, credit to them, Sheringham was class with anyone though pretty much. Deserves a small mention in this thread. So there, I'll give it him. Le Tiss though, always makes me cry, barely given a chance :'(

 

[peterstorey]

Apologies for digressing rcoobc, frustrating when we look at the players we have had and how poorly most of them contributed, given what we know they were easily capable of.

They really weren't that good at the top level.

 

[apotheosis]

They really weren't that good at the top level.

Well they would certainly all be featuring now! bottom line is hardly any performed even a quarter as well for their country, as they did for their clubs.

How good would Spain be, if the same were true of their players? Even though they would still be better than England on 10% of their club form!

 

[antohan]

Best performer overall: Owen

Significant impact and contribution: Gazza, Shearer, Beckham

Not flashy but consistent World Class performance: Rio and Cashley

Most talented (and most promising up until Sven fecked everything up): Scholes

 

[Mockney]

Beckham will be remembered mainly for his sending off against Argentina, and his defining performance against Greece. Owen had a few defining performances and a consistent stream of goals when it counted on top of that.

I don't really think this is true. Owen will be remembered for his goal against Argentina above all else. I doubt many people could even remember more than 5 of his goals, whereas Beckham's 3 WC goals (as Zen pointed out) were all relatively dramatic winning ones. He was captain for 6 years, penalty against Argentina, penalty misses against France & Portugal, being brought back by McClaren & Capello after both saying they wouldn't. His career is far more memorable IMO.

Not saying Becks was necessarily better, but I think he'll be remembered as. Owen will unfortunately be remembered as a one time superboy, long term crock. Which his record doesn't really deserve.

 

[Chabon]

Owen also did this:


A friendly, sure, but not a particularly friendly one, and perhaps the last really enjoyable England match before Sweden a few weeks ago.

 

[Cina]

Well Scholes is the best player to come out of England in the last 20 years, but in terms of contribution and longevity, probably Beckham, Rio or Cole.

 

[RedRover]

Ferdinand is head and shoulders the winner. Probably the best English CB I've ever seen and one of the best of all.

Scholes is a good a central midfielder as Ferdinand is Centre back.

Either Scholes or Gazza for me - although this all depends whether you're talking about ability or impact at international level. If the latter, surely David Beckham is up there.

 

[Scots Crusader]

Going to have to rewatch England vs Scotland in the playoffs. From memory Scholes was brilliant in the first leg, but I could be romanticising his goals

I will be honest, Schosey was immense in that game, but only scored 2 as our main DM was injured in the old firm game previously, Paul lambert, as he would have tracked his runs.

 

[Fearless]

Gazza by country mile.

 

[Gio]

Personally I think you would have had to have watched Italia 90 regularly or seen him for three years from 88-91 to realise how good he actually was. I can't think of a better of a more complete attacking player or a more exciting natural talent.

Would have loved to have seen him play for United.

I watched One Night in Turin recently which served to reiterate just how burgeoning a talent Gascoigne was. As you say, only Matthaus could claim a better tournament in 1990.

I will be honest, Schosey was immense in that game, but only scored 2 as our main DM was injured in the old firm game previously, Paul lambert, as he would have tracked his runs.

True. I felt Scholes was the difference in an England team that was fractured under Keegan and fortunate to get past Scotland in the play-offs.

 

[Mockney]

Gazza was better than Scholes. If we're going on most talented. Or at the least coulda, woulda, shoulda been. Take Scholes and boost his dribbling stats by 20 (but take his long range passing down by ...erm...10?).

It actually makes me really sad to see what he's like now, or has been for last 15 odd years. I imagine it's how those who grew up with Best must've felt. Though at least Best was stubborn in his lack of regret. Seeing Gazza cry because he wont play football again is horrible to anyone who grew up with him as the prince of English football. He was a beautiful footballer, who loved football. Mad as a box of spiders though.

 

[Member 39557]

I watched One Night in Turin recently which served to reiterate just how burgeoning a talent Gascoigne was. As you say, only Matthaus could claim a better tournament in 1990.



True. I felt Scholes was the difference in an England team that was fractured under Keegan and fortunate to get past Scotland in the play-offs.

I enjoyed that documentary, I had forgotten how much of a gentleman Matthaus was after the penalty shootout. It made me guilty for laughing at him in 99!

 

[Dumbstar]

Most talented? Paul Scholes

Talented, but for England wasn't he Mr Invisible?

I guess the question being asked is name the most influential England players during that period.

Seaman
Dixon Adam Ferdinand A Cole
Beckham ?? Gazza Anderton
Shearer Owen

Can't think of a midfielder that immediately pops into my head to play next to Gazza (no its not Scholes or Gerrard).

 

[Mockney]

Gazza & Scholes played together against Moldova in 97. Both scored. I was there & there was a bizarre rendition of Candle in the Wind before hand. Ince would probably be the holding midfielder. Was vice captain under Adams I think. Unless you want to go with Batty, Platt or Hargreaves (don't)

Spoiler

Aaah, when we had a midfield.

 

[Salvation]

Gazza, easily.

Also, looking back, there seems to be similariies between Owen and Rooney's careers and in terms of playing styles. Even a young Owen was adept at at taking on players until injuries completely compromised his style. Rooney had more in terms of vision though.

 

[Gio]

I guess the question being asked is name the most influential England players during that period.

Dixon

Didn't even make an international tournament.

 

[DixieDean]

The most consistent England performer over this time period is easily Ashley Cole. While Gazza was arguably the most talented to play during this time, people are forgetting how wildly inconstant in was for England.

 

[rcoobc]

Might have to be Gazza, considering the pinnacle of English football was 90 and 96, and Gazza was one of the few to play in both. Gazza, Pearce, who else? Seaman went to 90 but didn't play ahead of Shilton (right?)

 

[Irwinwastheking]

Just watched the England Vs Holland game on ESPN classics this morning and Gazza was immense then. If he had half a brain he would have been up there with the second echelon of world greats ever.

 

[DixieDean]

I think that England v Holland game was his best ever England match. He was far better in '90 then '96.

 

[Mockney]

Not to mention he played in Seria A when it was unquestionably the best league in the world defensively. He was a bit inconsistent there to be fair, which was mainly due to injuries (he managed to break his leg and his face in 3 seasons, and only played 40 odd games ) but when he wasn't, he could still tear them a new one....Whilst fat.

 

[Eyepopper]

Gazza was ridiculously good.... if he wasn't a total nutter he would be remembered as one of the all time greats, the sort of player that could have won matches almost on his own....

That said it's always struck me that if he hadn't been a nutter he wouldn't have been as good!

 

[Cutch]

Player that had the biggest impact for England, i would say Shearer

 

[RedRonaldo]

In terms of talent, Gazza, in terms of consistency and goals, Shearer, in terms of iconic figure, Beckham, in terms of overall class, Scholes.

 

[Sylar]

He set up Rooney's first against Switzerland too. What happened that Rooney for England? Well, to be honest, what happened to that England. It was the last time we were any good.

That England had Scholes. Actually the game against Croatia when we were losing, Sven decided to stick Scholes back in to the centre and Lampard on the wing which resulted in:
-Scholes getting his first international goal in 2 years
-Scholes setting up Rooney for us to take the lead
-Scoring 4 goals to go 4-1.

Sven then put Lampard back in the centre and I remember Croatia scoring

 

[Irwinwastheking]

I think that England v Holland game was his best ever England match. He was far better in '90 then '96.

That goal against Scotland in the later rounds!

 

[DixieDean]

That goal against Scotland in the later rounds!

Great goal, it was actually Jamie Redknapp who turned that game around for England (before getting injured again). Injures definitely robbed Gazza of his best years and we are left with a big what if...

I think if Wayne Rooney had big injures from say 2006, people would probably say similar things about him. He was a phenomenal talent in his teenage years/early twenties, who has not fulfilled his promise IMO. With his injury problems Gazza had a legit excuse. I'm not sure the reason Rooney lost a lot of his magic.

 

[Gio]

Seaman went to 90 but didn't play ahead of Shilton (right?)

And Chris Woods who was second choice around that time.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

Great goal, it was actually Jamie Redknapp who turned that game around for England (before getting injured again). Injures definitely robbed Gazza of his best years and we are left with a big what if...

I think if Wayne Rooney had big injures from say 2006, people would probably say similar things about him. He was a phenomenal talent in his teenage years/early twenties, who has not fulfilled his promise IMO. With his injury problems Gazza had a legit excuse. I'm not sure the reason Rooney lost a lot of his magic.

That's a bit harsh. The guy scored 30+ goals the season before last, and this season we didn't play particularly well as a unit. Rooney for England doesn't really stand a chance. Look at the team from 96 compared to the team from these Euros. A midfield of Anderton - Ince - Gazza - Macca playing the ball up to Shearer and Sheringham. You should have won that with that line up.

 

[DixieDean]

That's a bit harsh. The guy scored 30+ goals the season before last, and this season we didn't play particularly well as a unit. Rooney for England doesn't really stand a chance. Look at the team from 96 compared to the team from these Euros. A midfield of Anderton - Ince - Gazza - Macca playing the ball up to Shearer and Sheringham. You should have won that with that line up.

Yes he scores lots of goals and that is no easy feat at that level. But look at him in his early years, he was a very different type of player. He was much more exciting basically because he could dribble.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

Yes he scores lots of goals and that is no easy feat at that level. But look at him in his early years, he was a very different type of player. He was much more exciting basically because he could dribble.

I had the same conversation with someone earlier today, and funnily I was arguing the other side of the toss. I can see what you mean, he's been trained to be more of an all-round player, but that has cost im some of his hanger, unpredictability and slightly some of his genius I feel.

 

[DixieDean]

That's what was so exciting about him, he was like a mix of Gazza and Shearer. Some were along the way he lost a lot of the Gazza part. I'm not sure I have ever seen a more exciting English teenage talent then him.

 

[::sonny::]

Shearer
Gazza