Test abandoned due to covid is England's only hope
Cause they have been woeful. 3 wickets done in that session is nowhere good enough to flip this test. So expectation is rather low for these in the morning session.How so? I said it was a 'very, very tall order', did I not?
Crawley is crap.https://www.redcafe.net/threads/england-in-india-2021.460441/page-36
Great thread this from early this year.
Crawley in the combined India-England XI. Buttler/Pant being 50-50. Doubts over Rohit.
Mate seriously what is wrong with you?https://www.redcafe.net/threads/england-in-india-2021.460441/page-36
Great thread this from early this year.
Crawley in the combined India-England XI. Buttler/Pant being 50-50. Doubts over Rohit.
Yeah they're good. Everyone raves about Cummins but Starc has everything.To be fair Starc and Cummins are unplayable right now. Can't imagine any batsman having an easy time.
Someone in here def said he could be made captain in the last day or 2Averaging 30 makes him our second best batsmen at present! (Whilst taking one for the team and batting out of position at 3). Don't know where you read any suggestion of making him captain though, he's 35 so won't have long left at Test level.
Rest of your post is spot on. We're 3 or 4 batsmen short of a strong team and ideally you'd want a pool of 7 or 8 to choose from who could average 40+.
If we send Bairstow and Buttler out in their ODI kit we might pull this off.England relying on their ODI players to get them out of this.
Innocent of everything until he’s been found guilty of something.Innocent of what exactly?
It’s rightly good practice to suspend somebody from a role under such allegations. Especially allegations that are corroborated by two other eye witnesses (and let’s not forget one of those is a stalwart for England, who Vaughan largely covers) and entirely fit in with other comments he’s made in the past (Mo should wander the streets and attempt to deradicalise every Muslim he sees etc…)Innocent of everything until he’s been found guilty of something.
Genuinely the closest to a moment of positivity England fans have had this series was this test potentially being off and saving a whitewash. It’s been a horror show.Test abandoned due to covid is England's only hope
I did laugh to myself when I saw the previous record for ducks was England in 1998. England are basically in the exact same position they were then. After that came Nasser Hussain as captain, Duncan Fletcher as coach and central contracts. All pivotal steps that setup England for the 2005 Ashes win.On the bright side for England they can set and equal a world record on day 3 of this test. Another 3 ducks and they'll break their own record for most ducks in a calendar year and they're nailed on to equal Bangladesh's record of 9 test losses in a calendar year.
I mean before this year they were just inconsistent, able to produce brilliance and to collapse in a heap, things did not look so bad after they beat India in the first test in Chennai in February. The challenge was to get rid of the brain fades but now it’s the only thing consistent about England. I suppose facing India twice, New Zealand and Australia in succession is bound to pull out any weakness in particularly spectacular fashion.Brilliant bowling by the Aussies.
England have been poor in red ball cricket for a while, this tour is emphasising the issues.
As a fan of test cricket, it’s disappointing to see this. A few years ago, you could argue that it was a team in transition. The problem now is that the players who were part of the transition look hopelessly out of depth despite being the best in domestic cricket and in many cases not that old.Don't even know what to suggest for England. The problem is it's far less subjective than football, I'm guessing most of these are good county performers. They're simply horrendously out of their depth. Even if they clear the lot out it's not obvious you'd get any better against a good attack. So I don't know where they go with the batting.
The bowling will probably be ok. Robinson is a find. Archer may come back at some stage. Woakes is decent in some conditions. They'll no doubt have a few seamers to turn to. Leach is not going to be good in Australia but in other conditions will be useful and they can try Virdi. It's not great but not as bad as the batting.
You never had the misfortune of watching England in the 90’s then. Between 1989-2005, England and Australia played 43 tests, England won 7, Australia won 28.As a fan of test cricket, it’s disappointing to see this. A few years ago, you could argue that it was a team in transition. The problem now is that the players who were part of the transition look hopelessly out of depth despite being the best in domestic cricket and in many cases not that old.
I’ve followed test cricket for 15 years and it’s obituary is written every year, but this is the first year with a notable decline of one of the big teams combined with the continued terrible performances by the teams in the next tier. It feels like in ten years you may not have a single class team.
You say this but I’m far more worried about seamers than spinners, outside of Saqib I don’t see who’s the next cab in the line on that front, although admittedly before his debut I would have included Robinson in the crew where I didn’t see it, so it’s far from a death knell.Don't even know what to suggest for England. The problem is it's far less subjective than football, I'm guessing most of these are good county performers. They're simply horrendously out of their depth. Even if they clear the lot out it's not obvious you'd get any better against a good attack. So I don't know where they go with the batting.
The bowling will probably be ok. Robinson is a find. Archer may come back at some stage. Woakes is decent in some conditions. They'll no doubt have a few seamers to turn to. Leach is not going to be good in Australia but in other conditions will be useful and they can try Virdi. It's not great but not as bad as the batting.
Yep, agree with all those action points.I did laugh to myself when I saw the previous record for ducks was England in 1998. England are basically in the exact same position they were then. After that came Nasser Hussain as captain, Duncan Fletcher as coach and central contracts. All pivotal steps that setup England for the 2005 Ashes win.
Once this dreadful series is over there’s quite a lot for England to go at if they want. I’d start with reintroducing a chief selector, changing coach and managing director (Andrew Strauss needs to be involved again in some capacity if possible), working with counties to understand and develop better pitches, introduce the Kookaburra ball for half of the county season and kicking off a good old fashioned review into player development in England.
Not sure about Crane. Don't think he's got it for tests. Parkinson is an interesting one. They're very risk averse with wrist spin. I think his slow loopy brand of legspin would have been a big risk in Australia but they should introduce him sooner rather than later in a more favourable series.You say this but I’m far more worried about seamers than spinners, outside of Saqib I don’t see who’s the next cab in the line on that front, although admittedly before his debut I would have included Robinson in the crew where I didn’t see it, so it’s far from a death knell.
For spinners mind, as you say Leach is far better than this management has made him look, there’s Parkinson who should be the first choice for me, Virdi, there’s still potential for Mason Crane. The management seems to love Dom Bess for reasons I don’t understand.
I full agree that the batting is the big problem mind, there’s lots of folk who’ve been given a shot and failed (which obviously doesn’t mean they’re not good enough, coming in to a dysfunctional side and not performing is to be expected) but seeing how we turn it around to get to a point where we can actually bed folk in is a problem.
The overlying issue being the management is horrific, but what can we do about this? Silverwood came in with his statements about not judging him until this Ashes and he can have no complaint if we point to this Ashes and say he shouldn’t continue. Giles should obviously be looked into given Silverwood is his man and they totally ripped up the structure to give Silverwood even more control what, 6 months ago and it’s gone from bad to worse in that time. Then we have the long running Joe Root conundrum, if he isn’t captain then who is, because Stokes already has to carry too much weight in this team if anything, so adding more to that can only be counterproductive, and absolutely nobody else is nailed on a spot
I didn’t and I am not sure if things are comparable. There is a new kid in town in t20s which is going to make it very hard for administrators to keep running test matches at a net loss.You never had the misfortune of watching England in the 90’s then. Between 1989-2005, England and Australia played 43 tests, England won 7, Australia won 28.
I think test cricket is fine, India, New Zealand and Australia are all pretty good with India starting to establish themselves as the class team. Pakistan don’t play enough tests but they have some quality players. South Africa and England are doing some soul searching. It feels like touring is as hard as it’s ever been with draws a rarity and teams unable to play enough cricket to acclimatise to local conditions.
Sort of know what you’re saying. Had the same thought when I saw the scorecard. Stokes and Root are your best batters and I think in a one off match like this, getting a lead of 200 will do funny things to this game.We are winning this.
Test and T20’s can coexist. I have seen no evidence in England that people are not going to watch tests anymore. The biggest issue in recent times has been Covid.I didn’t and I am not sure if things are comparable. There is a new kid in town in t20s which is going to make it very hard for administrators to keep running test matches at a net loss.
I didn’t and I am not sure if things are comparable. There is a new kid in town in t20s which is going to make it very hard for administrators to keep running test matches at a net loss.
Test matches are a big (relatively) money maker, and are keeping the red ball game alive. Red ball County cricket is a massive net loss, there's generally like 5 specators in the crowd and minimal television coverage. I hate to say it, but I'm coming around to the idea of replacing the Championship with 6-8 regional sides, with condensed quality and a potentially broadcastable product.Test and T20’s can coexist. I have seen no evidence in England that people are not going to watch tests anymore. The biggest issue in recent times has been Covid.
Your system of no one facing professional consequences for their actions unless found guilty of criminality would have some flaws if implemented I think.Innocent of everything until he’s been found guilty of something.
I fear any attempt at making domestic first class cricket watchable is doomed, frankly. Gutting first class cricket in England and Wales may be necessary for loss cutting but I don't think raising the standard a bit would increase interest to any game-changing degree.Test matches are a big (relatively) money maker, and are keeping the red ball game alive. Red ball County cricket is a massive net loss, there's generally like 5 specators in the crowd and minimal television coverage. I hate to say it, but I'm coming around to the idea of replacing the Championship with 6-8 regional sides, with condensed quality and a potentially broadcastable product.
I was tongue in cheek but you're right it's not dead yet.Sort of know what you’re saying. Had the same thought when I saw the scorecard. Stokes and Root are your best batters and I think in a one off match like this, getting a lead of 200 will do funny things to this game.
Quite possibly, the only thing I can see potentially working would be linking 4 day franchise teams to the Hundred Teams, so it has a kind of established fan base. Not sure it'd do much for attendances, but could probably sell a highlights package for it together with the 100.I fear any attempt at making domestic first class cricket watchable is doomed, frankly. Gutting first class cricket in England and Wales may be necessary for loss cutting but I don't think raising the standard a bit would increase interest to any game-changing degree.
Yeah. But I cannot imagine that changing the County Championship into the Sheffield Shield would go down well and I’m not entirely sure it would change much. Sure the quality increases but then we would also need to improve 2nd XI cricket (Australian Grade cricket is also very strong) to ensure those who cannot play can still develop. And even then, does it really fundamentally change how we identify and nurture young talent? Will batsmen be exposed to proper quick bowling and spin on decent pitches? I’m not sure. And in terms of product, I think that everyone that cares about it already engages with it and getting rid of counties will just alienate them, so it probably would end up being unattractive but does anyone really have a marketable first-class game?Test matches are a big (relatively) money maker, and are keeping the red ball game alive. Red ball County cricket is a massive net loss, there's generally like 5 specators in the crowd and minimal television coverage. I hate to say it, but I'm coming around to the idea of replacing the Championship with 6-8 regional sides, with condensed quality and a potentially broadcastable product.
It is fascinating for sure. My understanding is grade cricket is a very high standard (I've heard it described as being not as good as the best county matches, but better than the worst county matches), so I guess if players perform at that level they get earmarked for Test level.Yeah. But I cannot imagine that changing the County Championship into the Sheffield Shield would go down well and I’m not entirely sure it would change much. Sure the quality increases but then we would also need to improve 2nd XI cricket (Australian Grade cricket is also very strong) to ensure those who cannot play can still develop. And even then, does it really fundamentally change how we identify and nurture young talent? Will batsmen be exposed to proper quick bowling and spin on decent pitches? I’m not sure.
I am fascinated by how Australia develop their quicks, I read a stat that no Australian bowler had played as many first-class games (79) as Scott Boland had before making their debut. Pat Cummins’ 4th first class match was his test debut and Glenn McGrath made his debut after 8 first-class matches. Even with spinners, Warne was making his debut after 7 first class matches and Lyon was playing test matches 6 months after his first class debut. I’m aware I’m talking of all time greats here and it’s easier to develop players in winning teams but it’s hard to imagine England fast-tracking anyone.
Do Ashes run at a net loss for admin? I don't think so. Problem for the test format is that for a routine cricketer, vying for T20 spots is a much better career choice since hitting it big there is going to translate into bigger bucks and more importantly the number of opportunities to make it in T20 format are 10x more than tests where only consistent international run will make your career.I didn’t and I am not sure if things are comparable. There is a new kid in town in t20s which is going to make it very hard for administrators to keep running test matches at a net loss.
200 means getting 285, more than even what Oz got. I would be shocked if England cross 120 here.Sort of know what you’re saying. Had the same thought when I saw the scorecard. Stokes and Root are your best batters and I think in a one off match like this, getting a lead of 200 will do funny things to this game.
Yes - that was just me thinking with my optimism goggles on similar to how we think when India are staring down the barrel.200 means getting 285, more than even what Oz got. I would be shocked if England cross 120 here.