Enigma VS Skizzo - NT peak draft

[Annahnomoss]

Team Enigma

Formation: 4-3-3
Style: Quick direct tempo

Players:

GK: Ulbaldo Fillol WC 1978 - quite possibly the best South American keeper had a blinder in the WC in 1978. He decided the game against Poland, saving a penalty by Kazimierz Deyna, and helping Argentina to win the first World Cup with a superb performance in the final against Holland. Fillol was voted the best goalkeeper of the 1978 World Cup, conceding only 4 goals in 7 games against the likes of Brazil, Netherlands, Italy, France, Peru, boasting with incredible attacking threats in their ranks.

DL: Paolo Maldini WC 1994- Many remember the incredible performance Baresi put against Romario in the final, but it was grande Paolo who put a pretty uninspiring(apart from Baggio) Italian side through the finals. Baresi was injured in the group stage, and Maldini put excellent performances both as a LB and CB bossing the defence and putting masterful performances in a patched up defence most of the time. He was voted in the team of the tournament and later 3rd in Ballon D'or on the back of that WC.

DR: Manuel Amoros WC 1986 - Best right back in Mexico and voted team of the tournament he provided solid performances against the likes of Brazil, France, the Soviet Union, etc in a team that conceded just 2 goals up until the SF's against West Germany. He provided defensive solidity and had a amazing performance against Brazil in the QF's.

CB: Bobby Moore WC 1966 - probably the highest peak of a defender in a WC tournament at the biggest stage with some of the GOATS on the other side of the pitch. Sir Geoff Hurst said he was his hero, Sir Alf Ramsey claims he was the best he ever worked with and that England would never have won the World Cup without him. Franz Beckenbauer, an opponent in that 1966 final, called him "the best defender in the history of the game" and Pele agreed. There were the last-ditch tackles - perfectly timed, of course - and the instinctive sense for danger that led Jock Stein to quip that "there should be a law against him as he knows what's happening 20 minutes before everyone else". And the final performance was truly spectacular:

Spoiler: Bobby Moore final performance WC 1966

CB: Sol Campbell WC 2002 - Albeit eliminated by Brazil in the QF's Campbell was immense throughout the tournament scoring the only goal against Sweden and putting a MoTM performance:
"MAN OF THE MATCH: Sol Campbell 8/10 - Unflappable." - The Times, 3 June 2002

Game against Argentina:
"They outplayed the team who had come into this tournament as favourites. England defended with supreme discipline, passed and moved with wit in midfield and attacked with intensity." - Daily Express, 8 June 2002

Game against Denmark
"England's defence was like a wall, it was so difficult to get through. Even the strikers defend brilliantly." - THOMAS GRAVESEN

The Makelele role WC 2006: Makelele formed a great partnership with Vieira in that tournament. Eventually it was Cannavaro who grabbed the headlines, but France was the other team with rock solid defence and midfield in that tournament, conceding just twice while eliminating some of the best sides in the tournament like peak Ronaldinho led Brazil, Ronaldo's Portugal and absolutely dominating Spain midfield boasting with Xavi, Alonso and Fabregas in their ranks.

Spoiler: Brazil or not I don't give a shit...

Playmaker: Didi WC 1958: Golden ball winner, team of the tournament and the star of the tournament. In 6 games he scored 1 goal, and provided 6 assists. Key Performance: Brazil 5 - 2 France (Semi Final) 1 Goal, 2 Assists
One of the very best midfielders ever in the top of his game.

Spoiler: Didi against Sweden in 1958

Spoiler: Didi against France in 1958

CM/AM Michael Ballack WC 2002: The 2002 - World Cup finalist and member of the All Star team literally dragged one of the most uninspiring German sides to the final with his 3 goals and 4 assists in 6 games. When Michael Ballack was carded for his team in the semi-final of 2002 World Cup meaning he would miss the final, just 4 minutes later he went on to score the goal that propelled his team to the very same final. Proper big game player.

LW: Hristo Stoichkov WC 1994 - Star of the tournament in an underdog Bulgarian side - he was at his best level scoring 6 and winning the Golden Boot. A menace throughout he is in his favorite LWF role here in a free role like the very same tournament.

RW: Zbigniew Boniek WC 1982 - After his stunning hat trick against Belgium in the 1982 World Cup, Pelé himself stated this, that a player such as Boniek needs to be unleashed and his talent should not be confined and limited to a role in midfield. And indeed it did - after his amazing performance in the WC, later he was third in the Ballon D'or the same year he got transferred to Juventus. Finished the tournament with 4 goals in total the other against a pretty strong Peru side.

CF: Gerd Muller WC 1970 - Der Bomber won the Ballon D'or the same year on the back of that WC performance, and what a performance it was. A strong contender for the very best individual performances in an international tournament. Muller netted the Golden Shoe for his ten strikes and he also provided three assists ensuring he makes the record books once again for the best ever individual contribution by a player in a single finals since 1966. Trailing Morocco in the first game it took an equaliser from Uwe Seeler and a late winner from Muller to secure the two points. Muller's winner was trademark bomber stuff as he nodded in from barely a yard out after the ball rebounded off the crossbar.

The Nationalmannschaft were rolling with Muller in particular in sparkling form. A hat-trick including a bullet header for his third was the highlight in the next match against Bulgaria while he added another hat-trick in West Germany's final group game against Peru. All in the space of 20 minutes!

Muller's second hat-trick of the tournament proved he wasn't just a poacher as he scored a goal with both feet and added a dipping header for his third. Seven goals already and that was just the group stage.

Spoiler: Muller tops the charts in 1970 ahead of the likes of Pele, Jairzinho, Riva, etc...

Thoughts on the game:
Defence: Obviously the biggest asset of Skizzo's team is his formidable attacking trio in Rivaldo/Ronaldo and Ronaldinho. Our defence however boasts with two of the very best defenders in the game in Maldini and Moore at their absolute best, while Sol Campbell and Manuel Amoros aren't too shabby either. Makelele screening the defence also provides additional protection which is key for our team sniffing the danger of Skizzo's attacking trio.

Midfield: I think our team has the advantage here with Didi being the best midfielder on the pitch and running the show, provided the protection Makelele offers(similar to what Zito offered in 1958) but also combined with Ballack dynamism and additional steel in midfield. Ballack himself this time won't be the only world class player in the team and given his decisive contribution in 2002 in both phases he will be useful both running late in the box and also providing passes to der Bomber to head home.

Atttack: Our attack consist of lot of grit, determination,flair, creativity but also predatory instinct. Muller won't need many chances to decide the game and given his credentials in terms of finishing in that tournament I'd back him to score most of his chances.


-----------------------------------Team Enigma
-----------------------------------------VS
-----------------------------------Team Skizzo

Team Skizzo

FORMATION: 3-5-2/5-2-3

INSPIRATION FOR THE SIDE: Brazil 2002. The trio of World Class Brazilian attackers who devastated the opposition along the way to securing the biggest prize in football. All three of them made the World Cup All Star team, and combined for 15 of the 18 goals Brazil scored that World Cup.

THE TWEAKS

Brazil 2002 lined up with a free flowing front three, who were relied upon to carry the attacking burden, while the rest of the team kept things rigid defensively.

Looking at that team, the first thing that stands out after the ability of the front three, is the distinct lack of star quality through the rest of the team. Here, we've managed to create an almost like-for-like representation of the team, with a distinct quality upgrade in every position bar two.

Marcos/Dida to Buffon (World Cup 06) - Bringing in the legendary Italian, he was the starting goalkeeper of the Italian team that won the 2006 Fifa World Cup, which saw him keep a record five clean sheets, and concede only two goals, neither of which were in open play. He received the Yashin Award for his performances that year.

Roque Junior to Burgnich (Euro Cup 68) - Described as a defensive colossus, La Roccia helped marshall an Italian defense to the Championship, keeping Dzajic quiet in the final. Here he would play a tucked in role to let the wing back attack, while forming a solid defense in front of Buffon.

Lucio to Kohler (Euro Cup 92) - The German defender looks to raise the entire level of the defensive unit, and he brings his Team of the Tournament performances from Euro 92, where he was on another level.

Edmilson to Olsen (Euro Cup 84) - The Danish Libero, who went through a renaissance period when moved to a deeper position. Here he would take up that role, as the extra defender, and also looking to carry out the ball from deep as Edmilson did throughout the tournament.

Cafu to Maicon (Copa America '07) - The one area where it isn't an upgrade, but the Brazilian is comfortable in an attacking role, and will be freed up by midfield support and Burgnich covering. His contributions to the attacking phase will help open space for the front trio.

R. Carlos to Cabrini (World Cup 82) - The other area where, while not a direct upgrade, is by no means a downgrade. While he may not offer as much in attack, he is a more solid defender. He will look to offer his foraging runs forward, highlighted by his game winning goal against Argentina.

Gilberto Silva to Horst Szymaniak (World Cup 58) - The German was rated as one of the best players at World Cup 58 where the Germans came 4th. Renowned for his defensive ability, his slide tackles, and his vision with the ball, he'll look to offer us another outlet when springing our attack forward.

Kleberson to Tardelli (World Cup 82) - The Italian was known for giving his all on the field, and able to contribute to both phases of play equally well. He would look to take up the supporting midfield role here, pressuring hard while on defense, but looking to drive forward at times as well.

Ro-Ri-Ro making cameo appearances as themselves.

The roles themselves are easy to explain, and its testament to the fact that Scolari was able to take a team of players who were far from what was usually expected of a Brazil side, and able to create a functional, rigid defensive set up, while allowing it to flow beautifully in attack.


BENEFITS OF THE TEAM/WHY I BELIEVE WE WILL WIN

While the team is focused around getting the best of the World Class trio leading the attack, the "supporting roles" are filled with players who have had match winning and colossus performances of their own. For example.

Marco Tardelli - Doubt many will ever forget his iconic celebration after netting the second goal in the 82 World Cup final en route to a 3-1 win.

Antonio Cabrini - The second member of that '82 World Cup winning squad, who scored a decisive goal of his own in the 2-1 win over Argentina.

On the defensive side, we have players who were able to dig in and put on some monstrous performances, and with Buffon in goal, I see us able to limit the opposition to minimal clear cut opportunities, and minimal goals. That stands us in good stead to be able to break teams apart when we attack with the Magic Trio up front who can win games on their own, and who are now supported with an able cast who can support them on a whole new level.

 

[Annahnomoss]

@Enigma_87 @Skizzo Good luck

 

[Enigma_87]

Thanks @Annahnomoss for setting it up!

Good luck @Skizzo ! Voted for myself to see the score.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Unlucky that you guys had to face each other. Will be a shame that one of these sides go out when they are probably two of the best.

 

[Enigma_87]

Unlucky that you guys had to face each other. Will be a shame that one of these sides go out when they are probably two of the best.

Cheers, mate. Yeah Skizzo has done pretty well in terms of a theme replicating Brazil WC 2002 formation/team so it surely will be tough match up.

Right off the bat I think we counter pretty well Skizzo's attacking trio with Moore and his monstrous 1966 performance, Maldini who also had a great WC in 1994, Campbell as a style and complimentary to Moore providing the pace, strength and physique, Amoros on the right back and of course Makelele who had a fine game against peak Ronnie 4 years later.

 

[2mufc0]

Love Skizzo's front 3 but Enigma's team has more balance, i would back his midfield to dominate the game, also Maldini, Moore and Makelele have the quality to handle the 3 r's (not saying they wouldn't cause problems). He also has Der Bomber to complete the team upfront.

 

[Enigma_87]

As a bit more info on the approach(not to make too long of an OP) - it's pretty straightforward. Opted for Ballack in the middle so I can have more control there and probably cut some of the service to Skizzo's attacking trio.

I think all of my players are at the peak of their abilities here and were noted for their performances chosen in the team of the tournament, apart from Makelele, whose contribution in the 2006 WC IMO was a bit underrated. Makelele contribution often seems a bit under the rather but he played a crucial role in France’s brilliant performance at the 2006 World Cup as they finished runner up.

Boniek and Stoichkov offer width but also industry off the ball and would also close down Skizzo's players and limit the time on the ball.

 

[Annahnomoss]

My first impression is Enigma has a fantastic attacking side. Ballack foraging forward with Didi moving forward slowly as their playmaker and setting the non-tempo of the game. So Enigma would have more possession and two central midfielder who loved to push in to the box, or just outside in Didi's case. With Skizzo having five defenders he will not be able to compete in that way while that is of course the entire point of his team, with a near flawless back 8. With the full backs, Didi and Ballack pushed forward it does open up for Ronaldo/Rivaldo/Ronaldinho to have a great performance.

 

[antohan]

Love the look of Enigma's midfield and Skizzo's main assets are dealt with as expertly as could be desired.

 

[Gio]

Two good teams. Enigma is probably an early favourite from all the teams I've seen so far, with a number of performers who really shone at their absolute best at the World Cup. Good balance in defence and midfield, while the attack would work well too. I think it would be important that there would be plenty of fluidity in the front three because both Stoichkov and Boniek did their best work more centrally in those tournaments, rather than operating as typical play-stretchers out wide.

Nothing wrong with team Skizzo either, well designed with no obvious weak links and a couple of nice left-field shouts in Olsen and Symaniak. Ronaldinho is the only player who didn't perform at their absolute maximum at a major tournament, but that attacking trio from 2002 ranks amongst the very best of all time so you'd surely fancy them to get on the scoresheet.

 

[Moby]

I know it's the 2002 attack and the whole proven partnership that comes with it but for me Ronaldo was better in 1998, he was still pretty good in 2002 but coming back from injuries and mainly played as a goal scorer for the team (he was tied for goals with Rivaldo till the final as well) while in 98 he was the unstoppable complete forward we know him to be. Add to that, the other team having Muller also probably was a good reason to go with the 98 one (he would only elevate the trio as a whole in that incarnation) as Muller in 1970 was also a pure goalscorer and with the earlier Ronaldo you would have had a different presence up front, which provided a different kind of threat. Of course, the proven partnership cannot go wrong either.

 

[Enigma_87]

Two good teams. Enigma is probably an early favourite from all the teams I've seen so far, with a number of performers who really shone at their absolute best at the World Cup. Good balance in defence and midfield, while the attack would work well too. I think it would be important that there would be plenty of fluidity in the front three because both Stoichkov and Boniek did their best work more centrally in those tournaments, rather than operating as typical play-stretchers out wide.

Nothing wrong with team Skizzo either, well designed with no obvious weak links and a couple of nice left-field shouts in Olsen and Symaniak. Ronaldinho is the only player who didn't perform at their absolute maximum at a major tournament, but that attacking trio from 2002 ranks amongst the very best of all time so you'd surely fancy them to get on the scoresheet.

Yes you are spot on. Stoichkov was in a free role in that tournament and worked off Sirakov who was the center forward. Here with Muller he has a significant upgrade in a partnership that compliment and would work pretty well. Ballack in 2002 also drifted left on an occasion(delivered an absolute peach of a cross and assist in the group stage from that side).

Maldini will be the more defensive out of the two full backs, while Amoros and his attacking contribution in 1986 also had a great impact in a more centrally oriented midfield/attack of Caree Magique.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Two good teams. Enigma is probably an early favourite from all the teams I've seen so far, with a number of performers who really shone at their absolute best at the World Cup. Good balance in defence and midfield, while the attack would work well too. I think it would be important that there would be plenty of fluidity in the front three because both Stoichkov and Boniek did their best work more centrally in those tournaments, rather than operating as typical play-stretchers out wide.

Nothing wrong with team Skizzo either, well designed with no obvious weak links and a couple of nice left-field shouts in Olsen and Symaniak. Ronaldinho is the only player who didn't perform at their absolute maximum at a major tournament, but that attacking trio from 2002 ranks amongst the very best of all time so you'd surely fancy them to get on the scoresheet.

Yeah, Szymaniak was great in '58 and impressed me a lot. Part of the Team A of the tournament according to Dr. Becker. Their left side with Juskowiak and him was immense through out the tournament. Great defensive presence and superb tackling but also an all rounder on the ball.

 

[Gio]

I know it's the 2002 attack and the whole proven partnership that comes with it but for me Ronaldo was better in 1998, he was still pretty good in 2002 but coming back from injuries and mainly played as a goal scorer for the team (he was tied for goals with Rivaldo till the final as well) while in 98 he was the unstoppable complete forward we know him to be. Add to that, the other team having Muller also probably was a good reason to go with the 98 one (he would only elevate the trio as a whole in that incarnation) as Muller in 1970 was also a pure goalscorer and with the earlier Ronaldo you would have had a different presence up front, which provided a different kind of threat. Of course, the proven partnership cannot go wrong either.

Yeah, thought the same about Ronaldo. The 2002 version would likely finish off something the other two Rs had created here, but the 1998 model could create and finish on his own.

 

[Enigma_87]

Yeah, thought the same about Ronaldo. The 2002 version would likely finish off something the other two Rs had created here, but the 1998 model could create and finish on his own.

I can see where Skizzo is coming from with the 2002 selection as it is a proven partnership but indeed probably Rivaldo there is the closest one to his peak. Ronaldo in 98 was close to his, although the final is still a conundrum what happened to him at that time. Everybody expected him to rip France apart and it's an interesting story behind all the suggestions why he didn't perform at that final.

 

[Raees]

@Skizzo I would agree wtth @Moby and go with 98 Ronaldo when he was a fenom. 2002 was just a excellent striker but nothing groundbreakingly good.

Such lovely sides both of you have put together, kudos to both managers.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

This will be a draw.

Enigma is set up to counter Skizzo's strength through the middle.
On the flip side, Enigma depends a lot on Ballack of Amoros to do the running. With Ballack against Tardelli, I think his team will find Skizzo's defence hard to break through.

Leaning towards Skizzo for the individual brilliance of that proven trio to make a difference.

 

[Enigma_87]

This will be a draw.

Enigma is set up to counter Skizzo's strength through the middle.
On the flip side, Enigma depends a lot on Ballack of Amoros to do the running. With Ballack against Tardelli, I think his team will find Skizzo's defence hard to break through.

Leaning towards Skizzo for the individual brilliance of that proven trio to make a difference.

You have to consider that us controlling the game will limit a lot of the opportunities Skizzo's attacking trio will get. And on the flip side our defense and midfield is pretty well equipped with dealing with Skizzos attack. Besides losing the midfield and control of the game will hinder what Brazil's team was all about at the time and whereas the three 3 R's individually were great they are not at their peak here facing peak Maldini, Moore, Campbell and Amoros.

 

[Enigma_87]

I know it's the 2002 attack and the whole proven partnership that comes with it but for me Ronaldo was better in 1998, he was still pretty good in 2002 but coming back from injuries and mainly played as a goal scorer for the team (he was tied for goals with Rivaldo till the final as well) while in 98 he was the unstoppable complete forward we know him to be. Add to that, the other team having Muller also probably was a good reason to go with the 98 one (he would only elevate the trio as a whole in that incarnation) as Muller in 1970 was also a pure goalscorer and with the earlier Ronaldo you would have had a different presence up front, which provided a different kind of threat. Of course, the proven partnership cannot go wrong either.

Muller in 1970 also had 3 assists to his name or in other words was directly involved in 13 out of the 17 goals Germany scored at the time. While of course his main asset was his predatory instinct, his movement and link up also caused all sorts of problems for the defences he faced.

The Brazil trio obviously were productive, but our attacking threat includes Stoichkov - 6 goals, Muller - 10, Boniek - 4 and Ballack - 3. This is a very diverse attack apart from the outstanding record Muller puts to the table as well with the creativity outlet in the team in Didi - 6 assists, Ballack - 4 assists and also even Bobby Moore delivering from deep.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Muller in 1970 also had 3 assists to his name or in other words was directly involved in 13 out of the 17 goals Germany scored at the time. While of course his main asset was his predatory instinct, his movement and link up also caused all sorts of problems for the defences he faced.

The Brazil trio obviously were productive, but our attacking threat includes Stoichkov - 6 goals, Muller - 10, Boniek - 4 and Ballack - 3. This is a very diverse attack apart from the outstanding record Muller puts to the table as well with the creativity outlet in the team in Didi - 6 assists, Ballack - 4 assists and also even Bobby Moore delivering from deep.

What source claims Didi had 6 assist in 1958? Three is what I've seen. "4: Didi (Bra) : 1+3"

 

[Enigma_87]

What source claims Didi had 6 assist in 1958? Three is what I've seen. "4: Didi (Bra) : 1+3"

I got it from a mamooth book of world cup or something when I was first scouring in the 1958 world cup, counting some of the assists in the reports - 3 in the elimination stage and 3 in the group stage.

Tried to find it in statbunker and planet world cup but unfortunately they are not listing it or have no stats. I'll try to review some of the videos and highlights in the group stage to confirm it.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I got it from a mamooth book of world cup or something when I was first scouring in the 1958 world cup, counting some of the assists in the reports - 3 in the elimination stage and 3 in the group stage.

Tried to find it in statbunker and planet world cup but unfortunately they are not listing it or have no stats. I'll try to review some of the videos and highlights in the group stage to confirm it.

Would be one hell of an achievement but not beyond Didi.

 

[Enigma_87]

Would be one hell of an achievement but not beyond Didi.

I got so far 5 on video (semi and final are in the OP):

Third goal against Austria where he passed it to Altafini. The nudge to Pele against Wales, the two in the SF against France. The video here is cut off for the first goal, but will try to look up other sources for the other 2.

Edit:

First goal against USSR - pass to Vava to set him free.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Awesome mate. Great stuff.

 

[Enigma_87]

Awesome mate. Great stuff.

Cheers, mate. Brazil 1958 is one of my favorite side historically. They had awesome defence, Didi at his peak pulling up the stings and exciting attack in Pele/Vava/Garrincha balanced out by `58 version of Zagallo.

 

[Raees]

Cheers, mate. Brazil 1958 is one of my favorite side historically. They had awesome defence, Didi at his peak pulling up the stings and exciting attack in Pele/Vava/Garrincha balanced out by `58 version of Zagallo.

58 is my fave Brazil side. I'd put it in my top threesides ever.

 

[Skizzo]

Sorry for being AWOL for a while

First of all, good luck @Enigma_87 aa I said before, cracking side you put together.

Few thoughts coming in momentarily

 

[Skizzo]

You have to consider that us controlling the game will limit a lot of the opportunities Skizzo's attacking trio will get. And on the flip side our defense and midfield is pretty well equipped with dealing with Skizzos attack. Besides losing the midfield and control of the game will hinder what Brazil's team was all about at the time and whereas the three 3 R's individually were great they are not at their peak here facing peak Maldini, Moore, Campbell and Amoros.

Bit of a misconception, as Brazil's team would certainly not rely on seeing the majority of the ball to cause damage to teams. In fact, it was almost the opposite. Against Turkey in the Semi Finals, they had less possession, and managed 11 shots on target to Turkeys 3. Same story in the final where they conceded possession to a strong German side, and yet still put more shots on target.

This Brazil side was almost a hodgepodge of things thrown together due to the qualifying results, and the injuries, so Big Phil Scolari set them up in a way to stifle the opposition threat, while maximizing their ability on offense. They conceded 4 goals all tournament, none of which were in the Semi Final or Final.

As for the posts regarding R9, yes, he was a different player in 2002, but thats what made the trio so effective, as his style dovetailed with Rivaldo and Ronaldinho.

Ronaldo in 2002 had changed his style due to injuries, but he was effective in far different ways and its testament to his ability that he came back and still won the World Player of the Year in 2002. In 2002 he averaged a goal every 69 minutes. Rivaldo averaged a goal every 122 minutes. The fact that they scored 18 goals, and RRR combined for 15 of them (and assisted plenty of each others goals as well) shows that they didn't need to rely on a supporting cast to help get them through games, even though that's exactly what they've been given here.

Im sure I don't need to point out that RRR already had Sol Campbell scrambling in the England-Brazil game on Rivaldo's goal, which all stemmed from a quick counter attack, similar which we'd be looking to exploit here.

 

[Skizzo]

While Bobby Moore had a great World Cup, and Campbell made a solid showing of himself, lets not forget the defensive performances on the other side.

Gigi Buffon - Kept a record 5 clean sheets, and conceded only two goals, neither of which were from open play. He made some big saves, none bigger than in the final against Zidane.


Jurgen Kohler (who had a monstrous Euro 92, and only came up short to the fairytale story of the Danes in the final.) and Tarcisio Burgnich who was the "old-fashioned" tough tackling man-marker. The two of them would close space down around the box and look to limit the opportunities for Muller (who you'd still back to find the net at least once, he was great at what he did) and Stoichkov and Boniek who would look to cut inside if they want to hurt us.

Olsen is an extra body back there who's reading of the game would be crucial in spotting the runs of the attackers coming through. Cabrini was a defender first and foremost, and Maicon was a physical specimen who's pace would stand him in good stead against Stoichkov's directness.

Ballack would push forward, but I wouldn't expect Didi or Makelele to exactly overload the attack, so we would still be well stacked at the back.

 

[Skizzo]

As for the "midfield dominance" anyway, I believe its rather overstated, and underrates the players on this side of the field.

Marco Tardelli put in some top notch performances on his way to winning the 82 World Cup, capped off by his decisive goal in the final, which led to his iconic celebration


His all action performances led to him being a key part of that Italian side both offensively and defensively.

Horst Szymaniak hopefully doesn't get overlooked here either as he was one of the best midfielders of his generation, but opted against playing for the big sides who were interested in him, until joining Herrera's Inter side. His performances at the '58 World Cup earned him all sorts of plaudits.

The Germans reached the semi-finals before defeat to the hosts, Sweden. Szymaniak was the team’s brightest spark and was named among numerous “all-star” tournament selections at left-half in recognition of his fine all-round contribution as well as finishing 8th in the Ballon D’Or. Most players who had enjoyed a tournament of this calibre would have baulked at the thought have returning to play in the second division of a regional league. Szymaniak though was determined to do everything he could to take Wuppertal back to the top flight.

Szymaniak’s performances at Catania were enough to persuade Helenio Herrera that he could be used to improve an Internazionale team who were already Italian champions. The move to Inter came at a time when Szymaniak might be thought to have been entering his peak, at 28 he still had much to offer to any team. Yet his time at Inter was a frustrating one. Italian regulations at the time limited teams to just two foreigners, and Herrera was totally set on a formation which included Luis Suarez as his playmaker and Jair on the right-wing. Szymaniak was bought therefore almost exclusively to be used in the European Cup, where no such limit existed.

Schimmi was an integral part therefore of the team for midweek games, but found himself left out of the side for the league matches. This might have worked for Szymaniak had his contributions been properly recognised. Instead, after playing a key role in Inter’s route to the final he was promptly dropped for the victory over Real Madrid in Vienna. Szymaniak would not play for Inter again.

What set Szymaniak apart from his rivals was his alliance of his physical gifts with exceptional technique. There were few players in his era who were able to play so comfortably as a defensive half-back and as a creative inside-forward and in both roles he was able to demonstrate the full range of his talents. As a left-half Szymaniak was tall and strong, with a fantastic ability to anticipate the movements of his opponents. For Catania, Szymaniak was noted in a rare appearance at half-back for the marking role he performed on Jimmy Greaves, at the time playing for AC Milan. Greaves’ spell in Milan was unhappy but prolific, yet for once he did not find the back of the net thanks to the attentions of the German. At inside-forward Szymaniak demonstrated a delicate touch, a love of surging forward from deep and the vision to pick out his teammates in dangerous positions. Had he chosen to play further forward he might well have rivalled Netzer, Overath and Fritz Walter among Germany’s finest creative cogs.

Perhaps the greatest illustration of Szymaniak’s true worth was the judgement of his contemporaries. German magazine Kicker, known for their notoriously harsh semi-annual assessments of the nation’s players, considered him “World Class” every year from 1957-61. Only Franz Beckenbauer achieved more consecutive “World Class” ratings than Schimmi. Meanwhile his five nominations for the Ballon D’Or (in the same years) showed that he was appreciated well beyond his home nation. More than enough reason to start remembering this forgotten great.

By all accounts, he was a well rounded midfielder who would help keep us tight defensively, all the while able to spring our attack forward with his ability to find a teammate with his passing.

 

[Enigma_87]

Bit of a misconception, as Brazil's team would certainly not rely on seeing the majority of the ball to cause damage to teams. In fact, it was almost the opposite. Against Turkey in the Semi Finals, they had less possession, and managed 11 shots on target to Turkeys 3. Same story in the final where they conceded possession to a strong German side, and yet still put more shots on target.

This Brazil side was almost a hodgepodge of things thrown together due to the qualifying results, and the injuries, so Big Phil Scolari set them up in a way to stifle the opposition threat, while maximizing their ability on offense. They conceded 4 goals all tournament, none of which were in the Semi Final or Final.

As for the posts regarding R9, yes, he was a different player in 2002, but thats what made the trio so effective, as his style dovetailed with Rivaldo and Ronaldinho.

Ronaldo in 2002 had changed his style due to injuries, but he was effective in far different ways and its testament to his ability that he came back and still won the World Player of the Year in 2002. In 2002 he averaged a goal every 69 minutes. Rivaldo averaged a goal every 122 minutes. The fact that they scored 18 goals, and RRR combined for 15 of them (and assisted plenty of each others goals as well) shows that they didn't need to rely on a supporting cast to help get them through games, even though that's exactly what they've been given here.

Im sure I don't need to point out that RRR already had Sol Campbell scrambling in the England-Brazil game on Rivaldo's goal, which all stemmed from a quick counter attack, similar which we'd be looking to exploit here.

Well for the England game in particular here's a quote from the BBC:

Brazil enjoyed the majority of possession in the early stages, as they exploited conditions that suited them far more than their European opponents.

But, with Sol Campbell in commanding form, the English defence for the most part managed to shackle Brazil's illustrious attack.

I don't think Brazil had a particularly good game against Turkey for example and here the opposition is much superior especially in defence than what they had to face in that tournament.

I think you'd agree that 2002 is not peak Ronaldo - still very good version of him - but not the peak one which was discussed so far. Same can be said for Ronaldinho and as an example Makelele in 2006 coped with a much superior version of him pretty well.

For Rivaldo's goal again it a bit different here as Campbell has two GOAT tier defenders next to him and particularly Maldini on the left side where Rivaldo will be situated.

 

[Enigma_87]

While Bobby Moore had a great World Cup, and Campbell made a solid showing of himself, lets not forget the defensive performances on the other side.

Gigi Buffon - Kept a record 5 clean sheets, and conceded only two goals, neither of which were from open play. He made some big saves, none bigger than in the final against Zidane.


Jurgen Kohler (who had a monstrous Euro 92, and only came up short to the fairytale story of the Danes in the final.) and Tarcisio Burgnich who was the "old-fashioned" tough tackling man-marker. The two of them would close space down around the box and look to limit the opportunities for Muller (who you'd still back to find the net at least once, he was great at what he did) and Stoichkov and Boniek who would look to cut inside if they want to hurt us.

Olsen is an extra body back there who's reading of the game would be crucial in spotting the runs of the attackers coming through. Cabrini was a defender first and foremost, and Maicon was a physical specimen who's pace would stand him in good stead against Stoichkov's directness.

Ballack would push forward, but I wouldn't expect Didi or Makelele to exactly overload the attack, so we would still be well stacked at the back.

He found the net not once but twice against Italy and Burgnich in 1970 WC.

 

[Enigma_87]

As for the "midfield dominance" anyway, I believe its rather overstated, and underrates the players on this side of the field.

Marco Tardelli put in some top notch performances on his way to winning the 82 World Cup, capped off by his decisive goal in the final, which led to his iconic celebration


His all action performances led to him being a key part of that Italian side both offensively and defensively.

Horst Szymaniak hopefully doesn't get overlooked here either as he was one of the best midfielders of his generation, but opted against playing for the big sides who were interested in him, until joining Herrera's Inter side. His performances at the '58 World Cup earned him all sorts of plaudits.







By all accounts, he was a well rounded midfielder who would help keep us tight defensively, all the while able to spring our attack forward with his ability to find a teammate with his passing.

That's very informative on Szymaniak mate, cheers.

On the midfield battle I do think that we have the advantage there. It's not like you need a designated playmaker, but from the two teams Didi is the one capable of running the game and stamping his authority on it. Obviously Szymaniak and Tardelli had a great tournaments, but Ballack, Didi, Makelele and the presence of Boniek and Stoichkov IMO give us an advantage that could give us the control - which would mean more opportunities for Muller who doesn't need that many to get on the scoresheet.


Muller against Italy in 1970 and against Italy defence including Burgnich and his predatory instinct of course.

 

[Skizzo]

Well for the England game in particular here's a quote from the BBC:



I don't think Brazil had a particularly good game against Turkey for example and here the opposition is much superior especially in defence than what they had to face in that tournament.

I think you'd agree that 2002 is not peak Ronaldo - still very good version of him - but not the peak one which was discussed so far. Same can be said for Ronaldinho and as an example Makelele in 2006 coped with a much superior version of him pretty well.

For Rivaldo's goal again it a bit different here as Campbell has two GOAT tier defenders next to him and particularly Maldini on the left side where Rivaldo will be situated.

He found the net not once but twice against Italy and Burgnich in 1970 WC.

Im sure that was rather tongue-in-cheek since you're playing both angles there, but ill bite

Campbell did have a great performance in that World Cup, and I'd probably say its one of the better defensive performances of an English player from many tournaments I can remember (which probably isn't many, but still) so Im not downplaying him at all...but considering Maldini would be replacing Cole, then he was already out of the picture by the point Ronaldinho passed it to Rivaldo to sweep home.

As for Muller and Burgnich, well same argument, Burnich would have better defensive partners, but he was also playing more of his usual defensive right back role in that game. Plus he also scored, and the Italians won the game...so I have no problem with that happening

 

[Skizzo]

That's very informative on Szymaniak mate, cheers.

On the midfield battle I do think that we have the advantage there. It's not like you need a designated playmaker, but from the two teams Didi is the one capable of running the game and stamping his authority on it. Obviously Szymaniak and Tardelli had a great tournaments, but Ballack, Didi, Makelele and the presence of Boniek and Stoichkov IMO give us an advantage that could give us the control - which would mean more opportunities for Muller who doesn't need that many to get on the scoresheet.


Muller against Italy in 1970 and against Italy defence including Burgnich and his predatory instinct of course.

No problem, I actually had to do a lot of research on him myself as I certainly wasn't familiar with him beyond seeing him mentioned a few times in previous drafts.

I agree you have a numbers advantage if you look solely at midfield, but we aren't looking to battle in the midfield at all. We have 8 players who would be back behind the ball, so i struggle to see what meaningful control you could really have on the game when trying to break it down, especially as Didi is the only one who could really fit into a system that could pull apart a team with possession. Ballack and Makelele offer little to nothing in terms of making that possession be an effective means of breaking us open. Especially as Tardelli and Szymaniak were both all round midfielders who offered more defensively, and still a good outlet offensively.

As for the Muller goals against Italy in 1970, they highlight his predatory instinct sure, but neither of those goals would be likely to happen against the set up we have here.

The first one is just comical, and was an error by the substitute Poletti for not clearing the ball. The second one he'd struggle to find space to win that header in the box with Kohler in that same area. Considering he also failed to find the net in the first 90 minutes, id back us to have it wrapped up by then

 

[Enigma_87]

Im sure that was rather tongue-in-cheek since you're playing both angles there, but ill bite

Yeah it was

Campbell did have a great performance in that World Cup, and I'd probably say its one of the better defensive performances of an English player from many tournaments I can remember (which probably isn't many, but still) so Im not downplaying him at all...but considering Maldini would be replacing Cole, then he was already out of the picture by the point Ronaldinho passed it to Rivaldo to sweep home.

There's also Makelele in the picture who would be an excellent fit in sniffing out the danger. I think the midfield let England down in that game, particularly Scholes who had a poor one and they didn't capitalize after Ronaldinho got send off.

As for Muller and Burgnich, well same argument, Burnich would have better defensive partners, but he was also playing more of his usual defensive right back role in that game. Plus he also scored, and the Italians won the game...so I have no problem with that happening

Yeah indeed it's a different set up as well from what Italy fielded but since Campbell/Burgnich have played against Ronaldo/Muller we had to touch it I guess.

 

[Skizzo]

Yeah it was

There's also Makelele in the picture who would be an excellent fit in sniffing out the danger. I think the midfield let England down in that game, particularly Scholes who had a poor one and they didn't capitalize after Ronaldinho got send off.

I agree, its a much stronger set up you have in comparison to what England offered in that game, and as you said, it was a disappointing end when it could have ended differently if they showed some cutting edge.

Yeah indeed it's a different set up as well from what Italy fielded but since Campbell/Burgnich have played against Ronaldo/Muller we had to touch it I guess.

We did indeed

 

[Enigma_87]

No problem, I actually had to do a lot of research on him myself as I certainly wasn't familiar with him beyond seeing him mentioned a few times in previous drafts.

I agree you have a numbers advantage if you look solely at midfield, but we aren't looking to battle in the midfield at all. We have 8 players who would be back behind the ball, so i struggle to see what meaningful control you could really have on the game when trying to break it down, especially as Didi is the only one who could really fit into a system that could pull apart a team with possession. Ballack and Makelele offer little to nothing in terms of making that possession be an effective means of breaking us open. Especially as Tardelli and Szymaniak were both all round midfielders who offered more defensively, and still a good outlet offensively.

Yeah that's the good thing behind them(the drafts) and the research part for a bit unfamiliar players/tournaments.

I think you have done excellently in terms of keeping the theme and formation of Brazil in 2002, but Carlos and Cafu were also integral part of that side in attack giving plenty of width and option. Particularly Maicon I don't see having the same impact as Cafu who was integral for Brazil in 2002 providing a lot of options in attack.

As for sitting back and inviting pressure is something that our side will enjoy as Stoichkov/Muller and Boniek are very fast/agile forwards that could interchange positions and leave space for each other, while Ballack/Didi also could score from outside the box given the opportunity and time and space.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The first one is just comical, and was an error by the substitute Poletti for not clearing the ball. The second one he'd struggle to find space to win that header in the box with Kohler in that same area. Considering he also failed to find the net in the first 90 minutes, id back us to have it wrapped up by then

He had Rosato on him for the 90. Rosato off, Poletti on - and boom.

Conclusion: Müller was a flat track bully.

But seriously, I think Kohler of all people should do a half decent job of looking after him. Rosato was a top notch defender but Kohler is something else.

I mean, if we want to do «battles». Which we shouldn't. But we always do 'em anyway.

 

[Skizzo]

Substitution as Ronaldo decides to take his 2002 haircut away

and returns as his 1998, pre-injury self with the pace and ruthlessness to cause teams problems on his own

No other changes as the "new" R9 comes in to add a new dimension to the attack to link up with Rivaldo, who single-handedly carried Brazil through some games with moments of magic, and Ronaldinho, who came into his own against England, dragging Brazil through to the semi final stage