Erik ten Hag - Ajax Manager

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Well, in fairness, where do you go after taking Spurs (yes Spurs!!!) to a champions league final, successive top 4 finishes, on a very meager budget, and you're up against clubs that are way more powerful than yours? He can only hit a wall after that. I've seen the same thing happen with Leicester and Everton after periods of moderate success (and you'll see the same with West Ham soon too) that there's nowhere to go but down.
This is isn't the Poch thread, but that was my impression too - that he improved Spurs's standing in the league, from an outsider to a top 4 mainstay. But I noticed the other week that Spurs actually already were the latter for a few years before Poch joined. So I guess he added some stability and that CL final appearance; but other than that, maybe he didn't improve things at Spurs as much as I had thought. (And he definitely didn't leave them in a strong state.)
 
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The Irish Connection

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With how many fans are so sure about Ten Hag; I am surprised watching the quality of football ajax is playing.

It's only highlights for sure - but hardly anything exactly that makes me feel promised about next season.

Hopefully it's only just some faulty paranoia.
you're right. ajax have been poor for a few months. it's a concern. but if he can translate what they play like when on form it would be exciting. maybe the speculation has played a part.
 

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This is isn't the Poch thread, but that was my impression too - that he improved Spurs's standing in the league, from an outsider to a top 4 mainstay. But I noticed the other week that Spurs actually already were the latter for a few years before Poch joined. So I guess he added some stability and that CL final appearance; but other than that, maybe he didn't improve things as Spurs as much as I had thought. (And he definitely didn't leave them in a strong state.)
Yeah, while it's fair to acknowledge his abilities it's also worth remembering that Spurs were the next team and two members of the top 4 fell off cliff around 2014-2016. it's also worth remembering that Liverpool were below Spurs.
 

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you're right. ajax have been poor for a few months. it's a concern. but if he can translate what they play like when on form it would be exciting. maybe the speculation has played a part.
A 'bottom level' is also well worth observation, so it's good we get to see all sides of his management and not just the great or good times. There's still semblance and quality, just not as much of it, and that has value in itself.

At least we're getting a warts and all perspective.
 

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Yes and no. I think they know endlessly more than me about 90% of what it takes to be a professional football player. I think they would be better coaches than me for 99 % of football teams (I’ve been a coach for several under age teams, and would be hestitant to throw them in there in some instances at least). I think if they were to spend an hour analyzing a football game to point out what’s going on tactically, they would be a hundred times better than me (if they were told explicitly to ignore sensationalism and hobby horses, at least).

I think, many times, what they don’t know, is their own limitations. For instance Gary Neville, when he was asked to coach Valencia, stupid me could see that it was very likely he was underprepared for what it would take to succeed in that role at that club. And he later confessed, he grossly underestimated not just the degree of the challenge, but the scope of it too. He underestimated things that was easy for me to see he would have to prepare for.

Similarily, because I’ve spent unhealthy amounts of reading interviews with anyone who could say anything about Solskjær as a coach, about Ten Hag, about Rangnik, it’s easy for me to spot that Scholes, Neville and Ferdinand often talks without reading more than superficial pieces on the same subjects, or worse, only talking to equally superficially informed people. That makes them more sane than I am, unfortunately I am aware of my madness, but they don’t seem aware of their limitations. They’ll be in shock and surprise at the lack of high press two weeks after Rangnik’s entry, despite Rangnik himself in advance having carefully explained that he would never try to instil high press too quickly mid season, because he deems it way too risky and quite frankly, a very bad idea to anyone with a decent understanding of what it takes to implement high press. Now, I knew this because I read interviews, and then it dawns of you that when Neville doubles down on that it must be the players who ate thick, lazy or subversive, because everybody knows that Rangnik is all about gegenpress, he is talking out of his arse. To put it short: He doesn’t know what he doesn’t know, and that makes him frequently say quite stupid things with aplomb and certainty, even if he generally knows alot more about football than me.
There'sa big difference between saying Neville overreached in the Valencia job and then saying he hasn't followed football development for the last 20 years.

The latter is clearly not true. It's not true of Scholes or Ferdinand either.

They just view football differently to online fans. They believe the core principles are key to winning teams. The same principles that have been around forever. Effort, teamwork, attitude and talent.

Online fans seem to genuinely believe they're in the know purely because of the words "high press." This is their subject. The one they can talk about over and over. It's become the beginning and end for the online professors of football.

Yes some players absolutely don't. Just because they played years ago does not mean they can analyse the game from a tactical viewpoint and make forward thinking decisions relevant to the modern game. They may know the workings of a dressing room and what it was like as a player in their day, but guess what, its not their day anymore.
But it's not your day either is it?

A rubbish thing to happen to football in the last 20 years is the pseudo intellectualism of the online fan base.

Terms such as high press are bandied around, fans convince themselves its a different game now and therefore any pundit over 40 can't possibly understand football tactics like they do.

Which brings us to ten Hag. I know nothing about him, haven't watched Ajax much. If he is appointed I hope he's a huge success.

But for the online fan base I've described above he's through no fault of his own, the culmination of all the pseudo intellectual waffle that's been developed over the last 10 years. Wanting ten Hag is about wanting to see their own highly theoretical football "philosophy" play out.
 

Leftback99

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I just hope he's as good as everyone on here says he is if he gets the job.
 

simonhch

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The issue with any new manager is that what is required to turn this club around, isn’t one man, it’s systemic root and branch reform. A holistic approach to how the club is run. Now, what we aren’t aware of in any meaningful detail is how much of that work has already happened behind the scenes over the last few months/year. Maybe the manager is the last remaining piece, along with executing an already devised new recruitment strategy.

What I will tell you is that I am very well connected professionally with someone who is a long time friend and colleague of a senior member of the current coaching set up and the word from inside the club is that it is a “complete shitshow”. There are far too many people trying to make decisions and no clear unified direction, voice or strategy. I’ve also been told that Rangnick was marginalised within the first few weeks of taking the job, and the powers that be within the club - executive board, DoF, TD, are not only dissenting amongst themselves but also doing it their own way without listening to external, qualified input. Often competing against one another.

From everything I’ve heard, it makes it sound like the next manager will just be cannon fodder. The club repeatedly promotes from within, to key strategic positions, to avoid having new ideas and voices challenging their hegemonic culture.

However low your expectations are, lower them further.

I wasn’t going to post this because I don’t want to get anyone in trouble, and I can’t be dealing with being labelled an ITK wannabe. I know a lot of stuff from within the club, I’m just not going to get into the habit of sharing it on an Internet forum, because my friendships and business relationships are more important than anonymous internet infamy.

Suffice to say that this is general enough, and I am pissed off enough, to share this particular tidbit. I can almost as close enough as guarantee that we will never see a meaningful change, pattern, strategy, or success, until the owners change. That’s been said by many on here for a long time. Speculating from what they’ve seen from the outside. From what I can tell you from what I know from the inside, is that all those people are correct. That the Glazer power structure, strategy, decision making, is about as unimaginative, uninformed, disorganised, and disconnected from the fans, club, and orthodox expectations of a big club, as you can possibly imagine. Even the Glazers themselves disagree on the direction, timing of the exit strategy, and valuation of the club.

It is my opinion, and now we are back to uninformed speculation, that the best outcome for us is a Hicks/Gillette type financial meltdown that forces the sale of the club. Either way, we are going to be in the wilderness for a while.
 
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Leftback99

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The issue with any new manager is that what is required to turn this club around, isn’t one man, it’s systemic root and branch reform. A holistic approach to how the club is run. Now, what we aren’t aware of in any meaningful detail is how much of that work has already happened behind the scenes over the last few months/year. Maybe the manager is the last remaining piece, along with executing an already devised new recruitment strategy.

What I will tell you is that I am very well connected professionally with someone who is a long time friend and colleague of a senior member of the current coaching set up and the word from inside the club is that it is a “complete shitshow”. There are far too many people trying to make decisions and no clear unified direction, voice or strategy. I’ve also been told that Rangnick was marginalised within the first few weeks of taking the job, and the powers that be within the club - executive board, DoF, TD, are not only dissenting amongst themselves but also doing it their own way without listening to external, qualified input. Often competing against one another.

From everything I’ve heard, it makes it sound like the next manager will just be cannon fodder. The club repeatedly promotes from within, to key strategic positions, to avoid having new ideas and voices challenging their hegemonic culture.

However low your expectations are, lower them further.

I wasn’t going to post this because I don’t want to get anyone in trouble, and I can’t be dealing with being labelled an ITK wannabe. I know a lot of stuff from within the club, I’m just not going to get into the habit of sharing it on an Internet forum, because my friendships and business relationships are more important than anonymous internet infamy.

Suffice to say that this is general enough, and I am pissed off enough, to share this particular tidbit. I can almost as close enough as guarantee that we will never see a meaningful change, pattern, strategy, or success, until the owners change. That’s been said by many on here for a long time. Speculating from what they’ve seen from the outside. From what I can tell you from what I know from the inside, is that all those people are correct. That the Glazer power structure, strategy, decision making, is about as unimaginative, uninformed, disorganised, and disconnected from the fans, club, and orthodox expectations of a big club, as you can possibly imagine. Even the Glazers themselves disagree on the direction, timing of the exit strategy, and valuation of the club.

It is my opinion, and now we are back to uninformed speculation, that the best outcome for us is a Hicks/Gillette type financial meltdown that forces the sale of the club. Either way, we are going to be in the wilderness for a while.
Sounds exactly the kind of mess I'd expect. Most likely we'll be in no better postion this time next year, whoever the manager is.
 

elnorte

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The issue with any new manager is that what is required to turn this club around, isn’t one man, it’s systemic root and branch reform. A holistic approach to how the club is run. Now, what we aren’t aware of in any meaningful detail is how much of that work has already happened behind the scenes over the last few months/year. Maybe the manager is the last remaining piece, along with executing an already devised new recruitment strategy.

What I will tell you is that I am very well connected professionally with someone who is a long time friend and colleague of a senior member of the current coaching set up and the word from inside the club is that it is a “complete shitshow”. There are far too many people trying to make decisions and no clear unified direction, voice or strategy. I’ve also been told that Rangnick was marginalised within the first few weeks of taking the job, and the powers that be within the club - executive board, DoF, TD, are not only dissenting amongst themselves but also doing it their own way without listening to external, qualified input. Often competing against one another.

From everything I’ve heard, it makes it sound like the next manager will just be cannon fodder. The club repeatedly promotes from within, to key strategic positions, to avoid having new ideas and voices challenging their hegemonic culture.

However low your expectations are, lower them further.

I wasn’t going to post this because I don’t want to get anyone in trouble, and I can’t be dealing with being labelled an ITK wannabe. I know a lot of stuff from within the club, I’m just not going to get into the habit of sharing it on an Internet forum, because my friendships and business relationships are more important than anonymous internet infamy.

Suffice to say that this is general enough, and I am pissed off enough, to share this particular tidbit. I can almost as close enough as guarantee that we will never see a meaningful change, pattern, strategy, or success, until the owners change. That’s been said by many on here for a long time. Speculating from what they’ve seen from the outside. From what I can tell you from what I know from the inside, is that all those people are correct. That the Glazer power structure, strategy, decision making, is about as unimaginative, uninformed, disorganised, and disconnected from the fans, club, and orthodox expectations of a big club, as you can possibly imagine. Even the Glazers themselves disagree on the direction, timing of the exit strategy, and valuation of the club.

It is my opinion, and now we are back to uninformed speculation, that the best outcome for us is a Hicks/Gillette type financial meltdown that forces the sale of the club. Either way, we are going to be in the wilderness for a while.
Hoping this post will temper at least some misplaced excitement if and when ten Hag is announced.
 

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That is just spin, and anyone can word anything how they like due to their own agenda. For instance, Pochettino doesn’t sound like a ‘good manager and a good option’ at all with how you described him. Another person could, just as accurately, describe him in a way that makes him sound very good. Someone like Rooney or Neville, for example, because there are plenty of positives to reference if you choose to.

Similarly, anyone could easily make a summary of Ten Hag as to why he is not best suited, with points that would all be valid. In all likelihood, Ten Hag wouldn’t have won the PL with Spurs, and in all likelihood, Pochettino would win the Eredivise with Ajax, scoring a lot of goals and conceding few in the process. Ten Hag has his appeal, and is a romantic choice, but it isn’t an appointment so obvious that going a different way defies all logic and reason.

And Pochettino is doing a very interesting rendition of ‘completely failing at PSG’ by the way, winning the league by an absolute landslide.
My objection to Poch now is that I think that he wouldn’t do much different to what Jose and ole tried - he’d buy big names and seems to be a bit of a yes man. But that’s just my assumption.
What do facts tell me?
They tell me that he has a 28% win record in 67 matches v the PL top 6. That’s worse than Jose and worse than ole.
https://footyaccumulators.com/news/mauricio-pochettinos-record-against-members-of-the-big-six
I’m far from convinced he has it to not only rebuild this club but also challenge the top 4, the top 3, and then challenge.
ten Hag is unknown in that he hasn’t managed a club the size of United but the more I read into his background from people who worked with or for him, they all say the same thing, he is absolutely driven by football. He’s already financially well off outside of football; he doesn’t need the money. He’s driven by player development, systems and results. It’s that kind of singleminded approach that we need.
I don’t see anyone else feasibly in the race other than him or Poch which is why I haven’t talked about other managers. But i can honestly say that I will be disappointed if we don’t take the chance with Ten Hag.
 

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Liverpool is beating the team that knocked ETH Ajax out right now by 2-0 in just the first half. ETH is a good manager, but the hype around him on here and the downplaying of poch is quite incredible.

If ETH couldn't beat benefica, and there are some players in our squad who are underwhelmed by him, I don't see how he will guarantee success compared to other managers who are more proven. As I stated, he will have to sign a gem of a player like Ole did with Bruno to get us to the level we are suppose to be.
 

captaincantona

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Liverpool is beating the team that knocked ETH Ajax out right now by 2-0 in just the first half. ETH is a good manager, but the hype around him on here and the downplaying of poch is quite incredible.

If ETH couldn't beat benefica, and there are some players in our squad who are underwhelmed by him, I don't see how he will guarantee success compared to other managers who are more proven. As I stated, he will have to sign a gem of a player like Ole did with Bruno to get is to the level we are suppose to be.
Worst post I have ever ever read.
 

pratyush_utd

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Liverpool is beating the team that knocked ETH Ajax out right now by 2-0 in just the first half. ETH is a good manager, but the hype around him on here and the downplaying of poch is quite incredible.

If ETH couldn't beat benefica, and there are some players in our squad who are underwhelmed by him, I don't see how he will guarantee success compared to other managers who are more proven. As I stated, he will have to sign a gem of a player like Ole did with Bruno to get us to the level we are suppose to be.
:lol:

Spurs couldnt finish above Leicester in their best ever finish in PL under Poch. Are we going to use that stick to beat Poch with?
 

golden_blunder

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Well, in fairness, where do you go after taking Spurs (yes Spurs!!!) to a champions league final, successive top 4 finishes, on a very meager budget, and you're up against clubs that are way more powerful than yours? He can only hit a wall after that. I've seen the same thing happen with Leicester and Everton after periods of moderate success (and you'll see the same with West Ham soon too) that there's nowhere to go but down.

His time at PSG has looked very bad in some ways but I don't know, I feel people are being very harsh on Poch. I prefer ten Hag but Poch would have my full support.
https://footyaccumulators.com/news/mauricio-pochettinos-record-against-members-of-the-big-six
 

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Worst post I have ever ever read.
The biggest game of the season against an opposition that he was suppose to beat and he didn't beat. Yet people say he can come into one of the toughest job in football and return us to our glory days? Like benefica was one of the easiest team in the last 16 and they knocked out Ajax. Things will get much tougher here at United and that defeat will leave a huge asterisk by his name when under consideration for the job.

:lol:



Spurs couldnt finish above Leicester in their best ever finish in PL under Poch. Are we going to use that stick to beat Poch with?
Oh ok, at least now I m 100% it is the fans on this forum. Spurs best every finish was the season after the leceister title win where they had 86 points. And other top clubs couldn't finish above leceister either
 

L1nk

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I actually don't have anything against Poch, would prefer ETH but not against Poch at all. However I really hope we get ETH just because the amount of simping for Poch from Amadaeus at this point is ludicrous
 

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The biggest game of the season against an opposition that he was suppose to beat and he didn't beat. Yet people say he can come into one of the toughest job in football and return us to our glory days? Like benefica was one of the easiest team in the last 16 and they knocked out Ajax. Things will get much tougher and here at United and that defeat will leave a huge asterisk by his name when under consideration for the job.
Really can't tell if you're joking, wumming or serious
 

L1nk

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The biggest game of the season against an opposition that he was suppose to beat and he didn't beat. Yet people say he can come into one of the toughest job in football and return us to our glory days? Like benefica was one of the easiest team in the last 16 and they knocked out Ajax. Things will get much tougher and here at United and that defeat will leave a huge asterisk by his name when under consideration for the job.
Okay and what makes Poch worthy then? He got knocked out with the most expensive and best players in the world after being 2-0 up on aggregate
 

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Liverpool is beating the team that knocked ETH Ajax out right now by 2-0 in just the first half. ETH is a good manager, but the hype around him on here and the downplaying of poch is quite incredible.

If ETH couldn't beat benefica, and there are some players in our squad who are underwhelmed by him, I don't see how he will guarantee success compared to other managers who are more proven. As I stated, he will have to sign a gem of a player like Ole did with Bruno to get us to the level we are suppose to be.
Your delusion almost singlehandedly balances out the hundreds of posts downplaying Pochetino making out he’s Steve Bruce. It’s impressive.
 

Dave Smith

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Some people are being pretty bold with their ETH posts imo. Yes, he has done well with Ajax, but can he translate that to the PL? People talk about his run to the Semi's with Ajax, which was impressive but he did that with a absolute steller crop of young players. In the league he has improved Ajax but let's be real, Ajax with their stature, finances and youth system should always be a top 2 team in the Netherlands.

I am not saying he is bad, just that I am not buying into the supposed fact that he can translate his success with Ajax to Utd as I have seen too many managers with good records in the Netherlands fail outside of that league.

That said, I am not that sold on Poch either but I am not holding his PSG stint against him as that club is the definition of 'all fur coat, no knickers'. I mean does anyone remember how they made Tuchel look?
 

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I actually don't have anything against Poch, would prefer ETH but not against Poch at all. However I really hope we get ETH just because the amount of simping for Poch from Amadaeus at this point is ludicrous
:lol: It really is. Must be his agent. Even spurs fans are calling him out
 

golden_blunder

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Fair point. That is a big concern. Also remember the FA cup semi final against us when they lost 2-1 and I thought they seemed a bit fragile that day.
It’s a huge concern for me, im not convinced about him being able to go toe to toe with the big boys.
In fairness we have yet to see Ten Hag and he might fail but I think we have already seen poch’s level
 

youmeletsfly

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Liverpool is beating the team that knocked ETH Ajax out right now by 2-0 in just the first half. ETH is a good manager, but the hype around him on here and the downplaying of poch is quite incredible.

If ETH couldn't beat benefica, and there are some players in our squad who are underwhelmed by him, I don't see how he will guarantee success compared to other managers who are more proven. As I stated, he will have to sign a gem of a player like Ole did with Bruno to get us to the level we are suppose to be.
I can beat you with one hand maybe but that doesn't mean the guy above me doesn't beat me with a finger only.(that sounds kinda odd )
 

pratyush_utd

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The biggest game of the season against an opposition that he was suppose to beat and he didn't beat. Yet people say he can come into one of the toughest job in football and return us to our glory days? Like benefica was one of the easiest team in the last 16 and they knocked out Ajax. Things will get much tougher here at United and that defeat will leave a huge asterisk by his name when under consideration for the job.



Oh ok, at least now I m 100% it is the fans on this forum. Spurs best every finish was the season after the leceister title win where they had 86 points. And other top clubs couldn't finish above leceister either
Thats what i said. If you look at result without any context you will end up making wrong conclusion. Ajax absolutely battered Benfica in that game and lost. Using that result to downplay ETH achievements is not correct just like saying Poch finishing behind Leicester make him poor manager
 

R'hllor

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Did you guys join CAF yesterday, what did you expect from discussion about Poch with Amadaeus
 

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I like the idea of McClaren going in with ten Hag. They have a previous relationship and McClaren can help ten Hag settle there.

My only reservation is the idea United are once again clinging to the past. McClaren must be there to facilitate ten Hag stamp his imprint on United rather than ten Hag having United “culture” stamped upon him.
 

Leftback99

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I like the idea of McClaren going in with ten Hag. They have a previous relationship and McClaren can help ten Hag settle there.

My only reservation is the idea United are once again clinging to the past. McClaren must be there to facilitate ten Hag stamp his imprint on United rather than ten Hag having United “culture” stamped upon him.
It's just made up by Jamie Jackson.
 

L1nk

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Some people are being pretty bold with their ETH posts imo. Yes, he has done well with Ajax, but can he translate that to the PL? People talk about his run to the Semi's with Ajax, which was impressive but he did that with a absolute steller crop of young players. In the league he has improved Ajax but let's be real, Ajax with their stature, finances and youth system should always be a top 2 team in the Netherlands.

I am not saying he is bad, just that I am not buying into the supposed fact that he can translate his success with Ajax to Utd as I have seen too many managers with good records in the Netherlands fail outside of that league.

That said, I am not that sold on Poch either but I am not holding his PSG stint against him as that club is the definition of 'all fur coat, no knickers'. I mean does anyone remember how they made Tuchel look?
Everybody is a gamble. Klopp was a gamble, Guardiola was a gamble to some degree, as was Tuchel. None of them had done it in the PL, and Tuchel had hardly lit up the other leagues he'd played in. For every Dutch import that's failed here there's also been successes. Sometimes you just have to take the plunge, just as Bayern did with Nagelsmann.
 

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Everybody is a gamble. Klopp was a gamble, Guardiola was a gamble to some degree, as was Tuchel. None of them had done it in the PL, and Tuchel had hardly lit up the other leagues he'd played in. For every Dutch import that's failed here there's also been successes. Sometimes you just have to take the plunge, just as Bayern did with Nagelsmann.
I agree (well except for may be the Pep bit)but the way some people are talking about ETH it sounds like he is going to stroll in and make everything click straight away.
 

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Not the same level of thrashing that city gave Lisbon(even though it should have been), but Liverpool beating benefica 3 -1 at their home is quite impressive considering Ajax couldn't score their. Anyway, we will have to see how ETH does. He hasn't shown the same level of klopp, pep, poch, tuchel or Conte at their highest level yet. Perhaps at United ETH will show that he can reach that level. No one can predict the future. But at least, he has an attractive philosophy.
 

Darlington Padgett

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Not the same level of thrashing that city gave Lisbon(even though it should have been), but Liverpool beating benefica 3 -1 at their home is quite impressive considering Ajax couldn't score their. Anyway, we will have to see how ETH does. He hasn't shown the same level of klopp, pep, poch, tuchel or Conte at their highest level yet. Perhaps at United ETH will show that he can reach that level. No one can predict the future. But at least, he has an attractive philosophy.
You can't compare Ajax and Liverpool, Allison alone is worth nearly as much as they paid for the whole squad.
 

L1nk

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I agree (well except for may be the Pep bit)but the way some people are talking about ETH it sounds like he is going to stroll in and make everything click straight away.
I would hope people don't think this way, even IF ETH is the right choice and is everything people say he is he will need multiple seasons to sort this mess out
 

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Not the same level of thrashing that city gave Lisbon(even though it should have been), but Liverpool beating benefica 3 -1 at their home is quite impressive considering Ajax couldn't score their. Anyway, we will have to see how ETH does. He hasn't shown the same level of klopp, pep, poch, tuchel or Conte at their highest level yet. Perhaps at United ETH will show that he can reach that level. No one can predict the future. But at least, he has an attractive philosophy.
Ajax score 2 goals away at Benfica, had 8 shots on taget with 60% possession. Similar stats to Liverpool today against Benfica actually, but of course comparing Liverpool squad to the one Ajax have is kind of unfair, is it not?
 
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Castia

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Why are we getting rumours about random assistants? I’ve seen RvP and McClaren mentioned in recent days, shouldn’t he bring his team from Ajax with him?
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
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Why are we getting rumours about random assistants? I’ve seen RvP and McClaren mentioned in recent days, shouldn’t he bring his team from Ajax with him?
Not all managers have a staff, in fact most don't. His current staff was assembled by Ajax, he came alone.