Erik ten Hag | Bayer Leverkusen Manager

VP89 said:
He said it in a press conference why do you need a source?

Anyway he said

“I know Matthijs well and I will not deny that. I wanted to sign him two years ago but at that time, he was already very far along to join Bayern Munich (from Juventus) but believe it or not, his name did not come from me in the process (of targeting signings).”

The Athletic posted this
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/56...h-matthijs-de-ligt?source=user-shared-article

On a side note I'm pretty annoyed by athletic. They're meant to be premium but they change their narrative according to momentum. As you just saw with your athletic article and mine.

A good example is they did a summer deep dive the year we finished 3rd and were complimentary to ten hags handling. And then they were changing the narrative of that same summer when we finished 8th.
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It all needs to be taken with a huge pinch of salt, to be fair. Even there, it's unclear whether he's talking about the initial pursuit two years prior or the signing this summer when he references the club bringing up De Ligt.

I've just looked again RE: Ashworth's involvement, and the narrative changes a few times. He was a long-standing Ten Hag target, then he was a player Ashworth had followed since joining Newcastle, then he was a player Ashworth signed off on to keep Ten Hag happy, and as you've pointed out, at one point he was a "club" target.

INEOS have effectively washed their hands of it all though. I think Ratcliffe and co. are keeping themselves distinct from the actual football operations and have basically said the signings were all down to Ashworth, even if it was just a case of him signing off on them, so when Ten Hag's saying "the club" he means Murtough/Ashworth and co. rather than INEOS.
 
Alex99 said:
It all needs to be taken with a huge pinch of salt, to be fair. Even there, it's unclear whether he's talking about the initial pursuit two years prior or the signing this summer when he references the club bringing up De Ligt.

I've just looked again RE: Ashworth's involvement, and the narrative changes a few times. He was a long-standing Ten Hag target, then he was a player Ashworth had followed since joining Newcastle, then he was a player Ashworth signed off on to keep Ten Hag happy, and as you've pointed out, at one point he was a "club" target.

INEOS have effectively washed their hands of it all though. I think Ratcliffe and co. are keeping themselves distinct from the actual football operations and have basically said the signings were all down to Ashworth, even if it was just a case of him signing off on them, so when Ten Hag's saying "the club" he means Murtough/Ashworth and co. rather than INEOS.
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There's no pinch of salt. He was clearly talking about De Ligt as the current target. You need to watch the press conference, it's quite clear and unequivocal.

Ineos also haven't washed their hands of it, SJR just said that they consulted with the coach on transfers and worked together but caveated that the team was newly formed.

In fact SJR said he backed the new recruits to all be a success so again, there's conviction there too.
 
VP89 said:
There's no pinch of salt. He was clearly talking about De Ligt as the current target. You need to watch the press conference, it's quite clear and unequivocal.

Ineos also haven't washed their hands of it, SJR just said that they consulted with the coach on transfers and worked together but caveated that the team was newly formed.

In fact SJR said he backed the new recruits to all be a success so again, there's conviction there.
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I mean washed their hands of it in terms of Ratcliffe and his business associates having any actual say in football matters like specific transfer targets. They'll make the calls on the department heads (like Ashworth) but that's as far as their responsibility extends.

Ashworth was ultimately let go because they weren't happy with the job he was doing, and part of his job was identifying and sanctioning transfers.
 
Alex99 said:
I mean washed their hands of it in terms of Ratcliffe and his business associates having any actual say in football matters like specific transfer targets. They'll make the calls on the department heads (like Ashworth) but that's as far as their responsibility extends.

Ashworth was ultimately let go because they weren't happy with the job he was doing, and part of his job was identifying and sanctioning transfers.
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No it wasn't. Ashworth does not identify transfers. He said this himself when he covered what a DoF does.
 
VP89 said:
No it wasn't. Ashworth does not identify transfers. He said this himself when he covered what a DoF does.
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He was absolutely part of the process, even if he was more of a filter than the driving force.

We've also moved way past what we were initially discussing here and I don't really care enough to keep going.

Both Ten Hag and Ashworth have gone. Both were a bit shit.
 
Alex99 said:
He was absolutely part of the process, even if he was more of a filter than the driving force.

We've also moved way past what we were initially discussing here and I don't really care enough to keep going.

Both Ten Hag and Ashworth have gone. Both were a bit shit.
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He did not identify any targets, just clearing that up as you said it was part of his remit.

And de Ligt at least was suggested to ten hag from the club. He said that himself. I think that clears up any doubt as to whether he was a club signing or a manager pushing scenario.
 
VP89 said:
He did not identify any targets, just clearing that up as you said it was part of his remit.

And de Ligt at least was suggested to ten hag from the club. He said that himself. I think that clears up any doubt as to whether he was a club signing or a manager pushing scenario.
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Identifying doesn't necessarily mean "go and scout that guy, I think he'd be good". It can mean filtering through the data/reports we have, which was absolutely part of Ashworth's remit, even if he was being presented this information by other recruitment staff.

What does a Director of Football do if they're not remotely involved in identifying players?
 
Alex99 said:
Identifying doesn't necessarily mean "go and scout that guy, I think he'd be good". It can mean filtering through the data/reports we have, which was absolutely part of Ashworth's remit, even if he was being presented this information by other recruitment staff.

What does a Director of Football do if they're not remotely involved in identifying players?
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Ashworth would probably still not be involved much with this as we had Vivel in to look after player recruitment.

It did not feel like it was part of his known remit, he explained what he's responsible for at Brighton and that's a close comparable to his expectation when he joined us :

 
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VP89 said:
Ashworth would probably still not be involved much with this as we had Vivel in to look after player recruitment.

It did not feel like it was part of his known remit, he explained what he's responsible for at Brighton and that's a close comparable to his expectation when he joined us :

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He literally mentions recruitment as part of his remit in that video.

It's obviously in a more overseeing and signing-off capacity than being particularly hands-on, but I've never argued otherwise there.

Again, by "identifying" I mean being the final filter before we sign a player rather than him actively scouting and recommending targets.

Sky Sports:
Ashworth was responsible for football performance and recruitment, reporting to new CEO Omar Berrada, who was hired from Manchester City.
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Premier League:
His remit was reportedly to oversee football performance and recruitment.
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The Guardian:
The former FA technical director was given the remit to oversee performance and recruitment at United.
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It seems that Ashworth was essentially in a redundant position, as we've reportedly just transferred his responsibilities over to Wilcox, and since hired Vivell permanently, although it appears Vivell has always been on a rung below, despite holding the title "Director".

The Athletic:
At United, Vivell will report to Ashworth
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Vivell reports into technical director Jason Wilcox, who has assumed greater responsibility following the departure of sporting director Dan Ashworth after just five months at the club.
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VP89 said:
Ashworth would probably still not be involved much with this as we had Vivel in to look after player recruitment.

It did not feel like it was part of his known remit, he explained what he's responsible for at Brighton and that's a close comparable to his expectation when he joined us :

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So it's true then... he became pale after joining United.
 
Alex99 said:
He literally mentions recruitment as part of his remit in that video.

It's obviously in a more overseeing and signing-off capacity than being particularly hands-on, but I've never argued otherwise there.

Again, by "identifying" I mean being the final filter before we sign a player rather than him actively scouting and recommending targets.

Sky Sports:


Premier League:


The Guardian:


It seems that Ashworth was essentially in a redundant position, as we've reportedly just transferred his responsibilities over to Wilcox, and since hired Vivell permanently, although it appears Vivell has always been on a rung below, despite holding the title "Director".

The Athletic:
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Yeah he was looking at how the recruitment fits in with the other departments (so that can be for the coach, how it might affect the pathway from academy players, the wage structure)

Back to your point though, MDL as a target to go for was a suggestion made by the club to the manager rather than the other way round. ETH has stated this directly and I don't think there's a better source published to say otherwise.
 
VP89 said:
Yeah he was looking at how the recruitment fits in with the other departments (so that can be for the coach, how it might affect the pathway from academy players, the wage structure)

Back to your point though, MDL as a target to go for was a suggestion made by the club to the manager rather than the other way round. ETH has stated this directly and I don't think there's a better source published to say otherwise.
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He was literally the man signing off on transfers and had the head of recruitment reporting to him.

I still think that's very much a 50/50 at most signing though. Ten Hag was also very open about wanting De Ligt before, had worked with him before, and he's also been defensive about his involvement in signing Dutch/former players having been heavily criticised for Antony in particular.
 
Livewire1974 said:
Very unprofessional for Rats to be dumping on ETH. Interesting to hear his response, the settlement contracts normally have confidentiality clauses.
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He used to throw players under the bus in pressers, so it's a bit cheap to say they are unprofesional but he wasn't.
 
Amar__ said:
Sir Jim:



Me and few others spent entire summer arguing with people here that we are only signing some players because they are Dutch and barely survived from being attacked by his fans that it's not true. And we finally have our owner confirming it now. I wonder where all those people are now?
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It was a bit more than that. It was because these players were part of the agency that his son ran, so he was basically getting these players from this agency and paying his son money in the process. Yes, it's that nepotistic and shady.
 
The Mitcher said:
It was a bit more than that. It was because these players were part of the agency that his son ran, so he was basically getting these players from this agency and paying his son money in the process. Yes, it's that nepotistic and shady.
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Yeah, we were questioning him for that in some posts too(altough some probably still find it ridiculous), especially after he opted for Weghorst out of all players in the world.
 
Alex99 said:
He was literally the man signing off on transfers and had the head of recruitment reporting to him.

I still think that's very much a 50/50 at most signing though. Ten Hag was also very open about wanting De Ligt before, had worked with him before, and he's also been defensive about his involvement in signing Dutch/former players having been heavily criticised for Antony in particular.
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Signing off on transfers doesn't mean he would have played any major role in talent identification but that's probably getting into a micro debate.

I dont think it's 50/50 in the sense of being led by ten hag - the coach literally said the club suggested him and he was on board. If you mean 50/50 in the sense that manager and board were in sync then sure. That's pretty much the case for any transfer at a well run club.
 
Strongly being linked to Leverkusen. Would be a massive downgrade to Alonso and most of the key players wouln't suit his style (I guess the wing backs will get sold).
 
I feel for Leverkusen fans. To go from Alonso to him is truly depressing.
 
Sarni said:
I feel for Leverkusen fans. To go from Alonso to him is truly depressing.
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He should've been banned from any coaching activity after his criminal stint at United.

I usually don't really care about managers and never get attached to any, but he's the first one I've felt such any intense dislike toward and he wasn't even my club's manager.

He's only surpassed by his fellow countryman fraud, Ruud Van Nistelrooy.
 
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Sarni said:
I feel for Leverkusen fans. To go from Alonso to him is truly depressing.
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Yeah that’s brutal :lol: I’m sure Leverkusen fans can’t wait to see his much favoured “0” formation in all its glory
 
aeh1991 said:
Strongly being linked to Leverkusen. Would be a massive downgrade to Alonso and most of the key players wouln't suit his style (I guess the wing backs will get sold).
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Christ. If I were a Leverkusen fan I’d be shitting bricks. This is like when we were linked to Southgate.
 
I see people still blaming him. Like we have been great after he got sacked.

He is one of the last to be blamed at.
 
Wouldn't be surprised to see him do well in the Bundesliga tbf. The kind of suicidal high pressing, no midfield football that he wanted us to be playing is basically the norm there.
 
V.O. said:
Wouldn't be surprised to see him do well in the Bundesliga tbf. The kind of suicidal high pressing, no midfield football that he wanted us to be playing is basically the norm there.
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One could argue that he learned that at Bayern
 
Think he will do well there, don't let him buy his ex-player and think he will do good. Did excellent work at Go Ahead Eagles, Utrecht, Bayern Reserves and Ajax. Failed quite miserably at United but still can be proud of singular achievements. His persona suits german football, and he is more fluent in German than English.
 
Gotta say I am shocked he didn't get Real Madrid job.
 
90 + 5min said:
I see people still blaming him. Like we have been great after he got sacked.

He is one of the last to be blamed at.
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The only thing I’d really blame him for is his shocking recruitment. He’s probably a good coach.
 
2 man midfield said:
The only thing I’d really blame him for is his shocking recruitment. He’s probably a good coach.
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Which probably is the reason why he is considered for the Leverkusen job.

I guess Rolfes backs himself to buikd a squad without giving too much influence to EtH, like Overmars did at Ajax. And then EtH should be fine to get them performing.
 
The Mitcher said:
It was a bit more than that. It was because these players were part of the agency that his son ran, so he was basically getting these players from this agency and paying his son money in the process. Yes, it's that nepotistic and shady.
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Yeah I saw a quote from Brian Brobbey recently that didn't exactly dispel perceptions of Ten Hag being shady as shit.

"It's true that Erik ten Hag called me through WhatsApp. He was telling me very strongly that at United my agent would get many millions of Euros and that I could earn a multiple of my Ajax salary. But our decision was already clear, because we had committed, that we wanted to go to Ajax."
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He's as good a candidate for the job as Leverkusen could possibly have hoped. I can see him doing fine there.
 
Leverkusen is probably the appropriate level for him. With the recruitment sorted for him from above, one of his most major flaws at United won't come into play there. And realistically, they'll ride the high of winning the title last year for a while yet and their status quo is probably a level he can maintain in the Bundesliga.
 
Hopeful that he'll be in the market for a goalie and a left footed right winger...
 
Fearthegrimp said:
Hopeful that he'll be in the market for a goalie and a left footed right winger...
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Leverkusen definitely is looking for a new keeper after Kovar failed to establish himself there. But they have other candidates, last I've read Freiburg's Atubolu seems to be their preferred choice.
 
RedSky said:
Quickly up, quickly back down again. Poor Leverkusen, their recent success will be like a distant dream.
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It was Alonso's individual quality that dragged Leverkusen from a Bundesliga top 4-5 team which is their level (actually their level was even lower when he took over) up to the level of a team that challenged Bayern. This was never going to be repeated, Ten Hag needs to have them in CL spots and he will be fine, and seeing that he is a proven cup winner he might get them a trophy or two on that front.
 
Don't think Leverkusen will be the right choice for him because they're currently at the peak of what they're ever likely to achieve, so the only way is down, makes it tough to be a success. But I look forward to him proving all the doubters wrong, this club is a shitshow and blaming Ten Hag for any of it is baffling.
 
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